Duran vs. Pryor

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 22 May 2003, 20:41

I know how you feel Broncano. I am not the most knowledgeable guy here but I became aware of Esteban in 1971 when he beat Leonel Hernandez. I have been following this sport closely since 1962 yet Flex sometimes tries to make me feel like I know nothing compared to him.

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 22 May 2003, 21:03

flex wrote:
tomato can wrote:
Mike Delisa of the CBZ
Ring Magazine
The Editors of Boxrec

It was also reported on ESPN Classic Fights.

I know, I know. They're all wrong and you're right.

Please post the source thankyou.

Ring Magazine? What issue?

ESPN Classic? Hmm I must of missed it. No offence Tomato you must be a little upset about me acting on your comment questioning Pryor's oppsiton and I pointed out Pryor ruled one of the deepest divsions in jw history.

I'll believe it when I see it. Dejesus's name was included in a bill that was trying to outlaw boxing in the U.S. and according to what I heard, Dejesus died from a brain injury known as Cerebral Palsy.

Surley the repot of him SHOOTING a kid is on the web somewhere.

Maybe so, I'll try to find it wand post it when I do.

untill then ................

Flex .. I am not upset about anything. How deep a division is, is a matter of opinion. As I have already said in this thread you have your opinion and that's fine. What Dejesus died from is a fact. I usually have my facts straight and to argue them is probably a mistake.

jsc1973 · Post by **jsc1973** » 23 May 2003, 13:00

[q]Pryor could still make the lightweight limit when Duran was Champion[/q]

And so what if he could? Why should one titleholder drop weight to face another? If Pryor won, he's a natural 140 who beat a lightweight, granted it's Roberto Duran we're talking about, but still, who has a title at one weight and then goes down?

Pryor was a big enough name that he didn't need to chase after Duran, who made a choice to skip over 140 anyway. In 1982, Arguello was just as big a name as Duran, and he came up to face Pryor.

As for the DeJesus-Duran comparison, they may have been the same age, but it's obvious that Duran maintained his skills for a much longer period of time. Different fighters age differently. Tyson and Lewis are about the same age, but they had their primes a decade apart.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 23 May 2003, 14:11

I keep getting out...they keep pulling me back in.....

I'm talking about Pryor and Duran BEFORE Pryor was matched for, and won, the junior welter title.

I thought this was clear. If not, it should be now.

This time really IS my last comment here.

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 23 May 2003, 15:05

Not to worry, Jaclem. Those of us who actually READ posts didn't need to have that explained.

It is sad that you are leaving this thread because I believe you provided the most valuable info on the question asked when I started this topic:
The possibility (listen Flex before you start your onslaught: "POSSIBILITY") that Pryor had in fact dodged Duran during all those years.

I had always thought that Pryor's fallout with manager Buddy LaRosa prevented the Duran fight from taking place.
Right before La Rosa and Pryor parted ways, Harold Smith had lined up a unification bout with Saoul Mamby, but then Aaron's wife shot him during a domestic dispute and it was called off. Typical of Pryor´s career.

Did he dodged Duran? I guess we won't know for sure. If he did you couldn't blame him. It was rumored back then that he didn't make the Olympic team because of his off-the-ring behavior. Howard Davis hade made $250.000 in his first profight, whereas Pryor only got peanuts for his first knockout.
So he probably didn't want to get screwed over again and get retired by Duran before he made some dough. In the end he got screwed over by himself.

And, yes, he was a helluva fighter.

For now I guess I'll say goodbye to this thread too. Like I said, after all the name calling and the ridiculuous statements (like: sorry bro, DeJesus dies of cerebral palsy), some of us did learn something. It is just too bad that we can't say the same thing about everybody else.

DLH=Chicken · Post by **DLH=Chicken** » 01 Jun 2003, 16:34

Broncano wrote:Not to worry, Jaclem. Those of us who actually READ posts didn't need to have that explained.

It is sad that you are leaving this thread because I believe you provided the most valuable info on the question asked when I started this topic:
The possibility (listen Flex before you start your onslaught: "POSSIBILITY") that Pryor had in fact dodged Duran during all those years.

I had always thought that Pryor's fallout with manager Buddy LaRosa prevented the Duran fight from taking place.
Right before La Rosa and Pryor parted ways, Harold Smith had lined up a unification bout with Saoul Mamby, but then Aaron's wife shot him during a domestic dispute and it was called off. Typical of Pryor´s career.

Did he dodged Duran? I guess we won't know for sure. If he did you couldn't blame him. It was rumored back then that he didn't make the Olympic team because of his off-the-ring behavior. Howard Davis hade made $250.000 in his first profight, whereas Pryor only got peanuts for his first knockout.
So he probably didn't want to get screwed over again and get retired by Duran before he made some dough. In the end he got screwed over by himself.

And, yes, he was a helluva fighter.

For now I guess I'll say goodbye to this thread too. Like I said, after all the name calling and the ridiculuous statements (like: sorry bro, DeJesus dies of cerebral palsy), some of us did learn something. It is just too bad that we can't say the same thing about everybody else.

Flex, you are correct here about Pryor not being scared of Duran. (by the way I love the sequence in your sig) in 1980-85 when Pryor was at his best (and the Pryor we are talking about fighting Duran) was 140 pounds.
Duran in 80 was 147 and didn't make any attempt to come down to fight Pryor.
Take anyone who says Pryor ducked or was scared of Duran with a grain of salt. I've read those BS opinions about Pryor being scared fo Duran but they are just that, BS. Most of them were written to hype theme of Duran having an animal's ferocityn at that time.

Why wasn't Duran pushing for a fight with Pryor? Duran must have been sacred of Pryor as well

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 01 Jun 2003, 16:38

DLH=Chicken wrote:

Flex, you are correct here. (by the way I love the sequence in your sig)

in 1980-85 when Pryor was at his best (and the Pryor we are talking about fighting Duran) was 140 pounds.

Duran in 80 was 147 and didn't make any attempt to come down to fight Pryor.

Take anyone who says Pryor ducked or was scared of Duran with a grain of salt. I've read those BS opinions about Pryor being scared fo Duran but they are just that, BS. Most of them were written to hype theme of Duran having an animal's ferocityn at that time.

Why wasn't Duran pushing for a fight with Pryor?

Duran must have been sacred of Pryor as well

HMMMMMM
Is this another case of multiple personality disorder in the forum?

DLH=Chicken · Post by **DLH=Chicken** » 01 Jun 2003, 16:48

Jaclem wrote:I keep getting out...they keep pulling me back in.....

I'm talking about Pryor and Duran BEFORE Pryor was matched for, and won, the junior welter title.

I thought this was clear. If not, it should be now.

This time really IS my last comment here.

wait I'm talking about the Pryor in diapers.

No, I'm talking about the Pryor in middle school.

No wait, I'm talking about the Pryor is in that ams that KICKED TOMMY HEARN'S ass.

Dude, the topic is Pryor vs Duran.

Therefore it is Pryor at his BEST vs Duran at his BEST.

I see the only reason that you say your talking about the Pryor before he became champion is because that was when Pryor was fighting at leightweight.
So what, why the heck would Pryor with barley 20 fights want to take a fight with Duran who has 40+ fights and was one of the best leightweight champions ever.
Pryor as champion however was in no way ducking Duran. It was Duran in fact that MOVED to 147 in 1980 near the time Pryor took the jr. Welterweight title from Kid Pambley.
When did Duran make an attempt to come down and fight Pryor?

why did Duran pack his bags and move up when Pryor rose to the top?

There is no suffcient evidence that Pryor ducked Duran except for a bunch of biased sports writers trying to hype Duran as this ferocious beast.
I agree with Max Kellerman on this issue who says "All of the sports writers say Pryor ducked Duran however in reality it is more likley that Duran was ducking Pryor moving to 147 when Pryor won the jw title. Of course, Duran's inconsitant appetite could have also been a factor"

DLH=Chicken · Post by **DLH=Chicken** » 01 Jun 2003, 21:32

bollocks wrote:Can't believe that anyone could even think that Duran may have ducked Pryor to fight Leonard. Leonard IMO was better than Pryor. He was certainly bigger

Max Kellerman for you, did you see friday night fights the other night? That's the first time one of my questioned got answered on the air. I've been sending that same one sporadically for over a year now. Duran didn't duck anyone and neither did Pryor as champion. I think what Kellerman meant was that anyone who says that Pryor as champion ducked Duran by not moving up to 147 can have the same logic used against them because Duran never moved down to 140. It is well known that that the Duran camp contacted the Pryor camp after Pryor stopped Miguel Montilla. When Tony Gonzolas said Duran wanted a fight with Pryor at 147 Panama Lewis hung up on him with giving a response. Of course this event caused sports writers to go beserk with fictional tales of Pryor being scared of Duran.
First of all how can you blame Pryor when his manager was the one who turned it down. Second of all how is Pryor ducking Duran when he was champion at 140 and the Duran camp wants him to give up that up for a NON TIELE fight at 147 which was not Pryor's natural weight. Pryor never ducked Duran and Duran never ducked Pryor, end of story.

David Mills · Post by **David Mills** » 02 Jun 2003, 13:14

The Cuban Hawk wrote:
David Mills wrote:You're and idiot..............Pryor would KO that dumbass in about 3 rounds.
Try learning to spell before you call anyone a dumbass.

HAHAHAHAHA.........ok I'm an idiot........but Pryor would still DESTROY Duran.

TonyJ · Post by **TonyJ** » 02 Jun 2003, 21:27

No way in hell would Pryor KO Duran.

The Keed · Post by **The Keed** » 03 Jun 2003, 08:47

TonyJ wrote:No way in hell would Pryor KO Duran.

Agreed. "KO in 3" is ridiculous.

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 03 Jun 2003, 15:15

We're talking about Duran Duran vs. Richard Pryor, right?

TonyJ · Post by **TonyJ** » 04 Jun 2003, 13:24

Lickszz · Post by **Lickszz** » 06 Jun 2003, 02:49

[quote="David Mills"][quote="The Cuban Hawk"]Predictions for Duran-Pryor:

With his magic water bottle, Pryor makes it a tough, competitive fight.

WITHOUT his magic water bottle, Pryor gets his overrated ass clobbered.[/quote]

You're and idiot..............Pryor would KO that dumbass in about 3 rounds.[/quote]

Duran lasted the distance with far superior fighters. Pryor would not be able to KO Duran. Pryor would get worn down and stopped in the latter stages.

jsc1973 · Post by **jsc1973** » 06 Jun 2003, 15:19

bollocks wrote:Can't believe that anyone could even think that Duran may have ducked Pryor to fight Leonard. Leonard IMO was better than Pryor. He was certainly bigger

If you're talking about what I said, that wasn't my implication. Duran would have fought anybody, but Leonard was clearly who he was pointing toward when he decided to abandon the world lightweight title. He said as much at the time. Leonard was a bigger name than Pryor at the time, and the welterweight division is more glamorous than junior welter.

I also believe that Duran was about killing himself to make 135 when he moved up. IIRC, he was walking around at over 150, so going all the way to welterweight made the most sense from that standpoint too.

By 1982, when Pryor was a megastar too and the fight would have made sense for both men, Duran was fighting at 154. By the time Pryor came back from his layoff, Duran was in against Hagler at 160.

The timing was never right. You'd never convince me that either of these men would have run from anyone.

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 15 Feb 2004, 09:51

Another Boxrec classic.

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 15 Feb 2004, 12:46

Feeling nostalgic eh, Tomato?

Boxrec has been host to many morons, but Robsteth and Flex must be enshrined as their founding fathers, their pioneers.

flex wrote:
Sorry bro Esteban Dejesus dies of cerebral palsy. It was a nice try though
.

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » 15 Feb 2004, 14:40

>> Both Costello and Rooney wer outboxing Arguello according to many sources, simply outclassing him but it only took one punch from him to end the fight and when he landed that punch it did. <<

Half of this is correct and the other half awfully incorrect.

Arguello was beating the snot out of Rooney throughout, simply because Rooney thought he could stand there and trade with Alexis. Arguello won practically every second of that match, and the KO is as aclose to a perfect one-punch KO you will ever have seen.

Billy Costello was indeed outboxing and outhustling a rusty Arguello until Alexis caught up with him. After the fight Arguello admitted he was completely taken out of his game by the antics of Costello's camp, who had -unjustifiedly- questioned the way in which Alexis had wrapped his hands. I have never seen Alexis that mad after a fight, and he was obviously just trying to take his frustration out on Costello's by looking to rip his head off with a single punch (which he finally did). However, in the process, he lost most of the rounds.

zurdo · Post by **zurdo** » 16 Feb 2004, 02:26

You get a replay of flex the man who I proudly cast my vote as the most obnoxious boxrec poster ever....

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 16 Feb 2004, 09:12

zurdo wrote:You get a replay of flex the man who I proudly cast my vote as the most obnoxious boxrec poster ever....

He's got my vote as well. Others have given it their best but fall short of the infamous flex.

"I first heard of Dejesus in 1996"

Rafael · Post by **Rafael** » 16 Feb 2004, 10:20

This is from the National Institute of Health web site:

>>What is Cerebral Palsy?

Cerebral palsy is an umbrella-like term used to describe a group of chronic disorders impairing control of movement that appear in the first few years of life and generally do not worsen over time. <<

If De Jesus had had cerebral palsy, he would have never been able to box.

Duran vs. Pryor

Alexis vs. Costello and Rooney

Cerebral Palsy?