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Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 23 Nov 2008, 18:13
by DG.
banjo wrote:mark thompson wrote:Urango
Urango was gash, he was just a paper champion(and a lucky one at that) and Malignaggi isn't all that either.
Mark Thompson does not know his Boxing.
He said HAtton is the best at WELTERWEIGHT!
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 23 Nov 2008, 18:25
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
mark thompson wrote:HATTON
Lets see up until his 38th fight when he fought Tyszu hadn't faced a top 10 opponent in his division.
After beating Tyszu opted against unifying against the top 2 champions - Mayweather/Cotto who were both offered to him and faced Maussa (who was coming off a loss to Witter's unworthy defense in Morua and would be taken out in 1 by Ortiz). Is this taking the toughest challenge/fight?
Then faces Collazo the weakest Welter champ despite been offered a fight with Mayweather. Note many had Collazo winning and Hatton didnt rematch despite saying he would to Collazo. Is this taking the toughest challenge/fight?
Then instead of facing the top Welters or Light Welters, he faces the weakest 140lb belt holder in Urango who was coming off a gift in most fans eyes against Rabah. Urango had not and still hasn't beat anyone of note. Is this taking the toughest challenge/fight?
Then he faces Castillo who was coming off a gift against Herman Ngoudjo and this was Castillo's only fight in 11months. Castillo's last fight at lightweight was a KO loss and his last win over a top opponent was when he cheated the scales against Corrales. Castillo would lose to journeyman Lujan the next year
Then faces Mayweather, the toughest challenge for a boat load of cash, cant complain about this 1
Then faces Lazcano - comeback fight but obviously not the toughest challenge/fight?
Then he faces Mallignaggi, most fight fans had Mallignaggi losing his last 2 fights to Herman Ngoudgo and Ndou (Witter victim incidently)
Hatton despite an admitadly impressive career has turned down fights with Cotto, Witter, Corley, Harris, Ukral and turned down Mayweather from 2005-2007. He also has not fought the best 140lber contenders since he became champ - Mayweather (wouldnt face him at 140), Cotto, Witter, Ngoudjo, Harris, Bradley, Holt, Kotelnik
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 23 Nov 2008, 18:29
by bbjc
Think you can put a negative spin on any career even the very best but Hatton seems to get this negative spin more than most.
Everyone that Hatton beats seems to become over the hill the second he beats them - think we all realise Hattons not the very best in the sport but he is up there in the mix with a lot of the top guys.
Castillo probably had seen better days however ngoudjo turned out to be a decent operator i think it was the manner of the victory that impresses most.
Again with tsyzu anyone that seen the fight would realize that he had a lot left in the tank probably not the greatest version which was in the top 3 p4p if i remember correctly but still must have been right up there at the time hatton beat him.
Tsyzu was a class act and dont think hatton would have beaten him in his very prime but not many would have.
Think its a shame that kosta didn't fight on after the hatton fight for all that claimed he was washed up dont think too many would have bet against him in his next fights outwith hatton for example.
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 23 Nov 2008, 18:29
by DG.
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:mark thompson wrote:HATTON
Lets see up until his 38th fight when he fought Tyszu hadn't faced a top 10 opponent in his division.
After beating Tyszu opted against unifying against the top 2 champions - Mayweather/Cotto who were both offered to him and faced Maussa (who was coming off a loss to Witter's unworthy defense in Morua and would be taken out in 1 by Ortiz). Is this taking the toughest challenge/fight?
Then faces Collazo the weakest Welter champ despite been offered a fight with Mayweather. Note many had Collazo winning and Hatton didnt rematch despite saying he would to Collazo. Is this taking the toughest challenge/fight?
Then instead of facing the top Welters or Light Welters, he faces the weakest 140lb belt holder in Urango who was coming off a gift in most fans eyes against Rabah. Urango had not and still hasn't beat anyone of note. Is this taking the toughest challenge/fight?
Then he faces Castillo who was coming off a gift against Herman Ngoudjo and this was Castillo's only fight in 11months. Castillo's last fight at lightweight was a KO loss and his last win over a top opponent was when he cheated the scales against Corrales. Castillo would lose to journeyman Lujan the next year
Then faces Mayweather, the toughest challenge for a boat load of cash, cant complain about this 1
Then faces Lazcano - comeback fight but obviously not the toughest challenge/fight?
Then he faces Mallignaggi, most fight fans had Mallignaggi losing his last 2 fights to Herman Ngoudgo and Ndou (Witter victim incidently)
Hatton despite an admitadly impressive career has turned down fights with Cotto, Witter, Corley, Harris, Ukral and turned down Mayweather from 2005-2007. He also has not fought the best 140lber contenders since he became champ - Mayweather (wouldnt face him at 140), Cotto, Witter, Ngoudjo, Harris, Bradley, Holt, Kotelnik
Mark Thompson only knows 2 fighters, Hatton and Zelenoff.
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 23 Nov 2008, 18:30
by stujones
Castillo vs Ngoudjio was a gift.... I'm sorry but I think I deserve less criticisms for calling Calzaghe vs Kessler a draw than calling that a GIFT.
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 23 Nov 2008, 18:32
by DG.
bbjc wrote:
Everyone that Hatton beats seems to become over the hill the second he beats them - think we all realise Hattons not the very best in the sport but he is up there in the mix with a lot of the top guys.
.
Name me 1 fighter Hatton has fought that did ANYTHING after Hatton?
Collazo
Urango
Castillo
Maussa
None of them, because they were either past it or not good at the time.
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 23 Nov 2008, 18:44
by Datsue
I'd like to contribute, but these threads always degenerate into pointless nitpicking.
But Oscar -- despite getting grief when he was at lightweight for "only fighting older/smaller guys" -- has an incredible fecking resume. Trinidad, Whitaker, Mosely twice, Hopkins, Castillejo (went on to flatten Sturm), Mayweather... The boy's shown some balls.
& also a big-up to Stu (I think it was) who mentioned Cassamayor. Ridiculously hardcore record.
Honourable mentions: Juan Manuel Marquez hasn't ducked many blokes I can think of. Toney in his late resurgence fought just about every top ten/fringe heavy apart from the big Klits & Jameel Decline (who, thinking about it & possibly on a lower level, hasn't ducked many himself).
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 23 Nov 2008, 18:52
by chesh
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:After beating Tyszu opted against unifying against the top 2 champions - Mayweather/Cotto who were both offered to him and faced Maussa (who was coming off a loss to Witter's unworthy defense in Morua and would be taken out in 1 by Ortiz).
Untrue. Maussa was WBA champ when Hatton fought him and had just destroyed Vivian Harris (KO7) as impressively as Witter would subsequently do. It was a unification match and a reasonable fight for Hatton to take directly after the bruising encounter with Tszyu.
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 23 Nov 2008, 19:02
by bbjc
Good point DG never actually thought of that. However think we realize Hatton's only really been fighting guys around world class after the tszyu fight it has been a well planned career as allegedly is very good at.
From around 2006 these guys have only had a few fights after Hatton bit unfair on guys like collazo and urango. Out of the 8 fights including tyszu - him malinaggi floyd and lazcano have never fought since not really hattons fault is it. Now boxers are fighting around once or twice per year. Maussa was pish i will give you that.
Not really sure what you think of Hatton as a fighter do you not rate him at all or do you think at the very top level hes not good enough would be interested to know. If that is your argument maybe your right but Hatton is world class.
Is it that you dont like him as a person or as a boxer
Again i say stick hatton in with the best of them he deserves to be in there think a lot of these guys get hyped up a lot. He may not win but neither does oscar for example.
A bit mystified at your constant digging of hatton and then pick witter as a world beater hes fornicating murder m8
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 23 Nov 2008, 19:07
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
chesh wrote:Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:After beating Tyszu opted against unifying against the top 2 champions - Mayweather/Cotto who were both offered to him and faced Maussa (who was coming off a loss to Witter's unworthy defense in Morua and would be taken out in 1 by Ortiz).
Untrue. Maussa was WBA champ when Hatton fought him and had just destroyed Vivian Harris (KO7) as impressively as Witter would subsequently do. It was a unification match and a reasonable fight for Hatton to take directly after the bruising encounter with Tszyu.
Maussa was coming off a shutout defeat to Morua (who Witter easily beat) the same year Hatton beat him, he fluked the win over an underprepared Harris (who uncharacteristically was gassed after 3rounds) after Maussa being down from the first punch of the fight.
Now if you want to call the Maussa win a top win, Morua must be an ATG win for Witter, you can't have it both ways
D
Now having said all this I think Hatton is a very good fighter with a good well calculated resume. Saying he took on the best of the best time after time though, is frankly speaking bollox
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 23 Nov 2008, 19:19
by bbjc
Think its the self promoting that gets on peoples nerves but surely thats what hes there to do they all do it just in different ways have more problems with guys like hopkins who want to start the fight before the start then at the actual fight he does everything but have the tear up he has promised for example.
Hatton has latched on to the fans with his man of the people talk hence the 58000 sell outs etc. As you all know its a business they ve got to promote themselves as good as they can which hatton seems to be good at.
What do you want the guy to say in his interviews im just beating up old past it fighters hes there to promote his fights.
Hatton is a credit to british boxing and is the the best Britain has at the minute with calzaghe's retirement looming. Its time to get behind him for his last few fights and see how far he can go
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 23 Nov 2008, 19:27
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
bbjc wrote:Think its the self promoting that gets on peoples nerves but surely thats what hes there to do they all do it just in different ways have more problems with guys like hopkins who want to start the fight before the start then at the actual fight he does everything but have the tear up he has promised for example.
Hatton has latched on to the fans with his man of the people talk hence the 58000 sell outs etc. As you all know its a business they ve got to promote themselves as good as they can which hatton seems to be good at.
What do you want the guy to say in his interviews im just beating up old past it fighters hes there to promote his fights.
Hatton is a credit to british boxing and is the the best Britain has at the minute with calzaghe's retirement looming. Its time to get behind him for his last few fights and see how far he can go
Agree with all that except for the fact I'd recommend watching some Hopkins from 1992-2000, he was a bad bad man back then a real seek a destroy fighter, hes 43 now and can't fight at the same pace
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 24 Nov 2008, 06:24
by Poncey
These threads about Hatton's resumé always degenerate into the same old trite. Most argue that Urguango wasn't very good except for Terry and I defending him (we'll win in the end Shaggy). PN says the Maussa win was tainted as Harris was way under-weight. DG and Chambers then come along and say he hasn't fought Witter. Most say Castillo was shot. hh1 and DG then resort to name calling each other, which usually results in someone being gay and not having a clue.
It's just like the Police Academies, the first time it was fun but now it's reptitive. Plus we still don't get to see Callahan's tits.
We will never agree, Guys.
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 24 Nov 2008, 06:33
by Wales
I like Urango,. he should be IBF champ come Jan 2008!
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 24 Nov 2008, 06:37
by thepocketrocket
Emerson puts it perfectly!
Hattons resume is excellent...the only thing you can argue is that he could have chased Floyd and Cotto in 2006 when they were possibly there for the taking....
But Hatton always steered clear of meaningless mandatories, gave up belts and fought the other champs in the division...then he had the balls to fight the greatest of his generation and lost, no shame there...
Ricky is a legend
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 24 Nov 2008, 06:55
by Poncey
Wales wrote:I like Urango,. he should be IBF champ come Jan 2008!
Juan has a time machine?!
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 24 Nov 2008, 07:06
by Wales
doh.. 2009
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 24 Nov 2008, 09:47
by mark thompson
Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:These threads about Hatton's resumé always degenerate into the same old trite. Most argue that Urguango wasn't very good except for Terry and I defending him (we'll win in the end Shaggy). PN says the Maussa win was tainted as Harris was way under-weight. DG and Chambers then come along and say he hasn't fought Witter. Most say Castillo was shot. hh1 and DG then resort to name calling each other, which usually results in someone being gay and not having a clue.
It's just like the Police Academies, the first time it was fun but now it's reptitive. Plus we still don't get to see Callahan's tits.
We will never agree, Guys.
spot on
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 24 Nov 2008, 09:48
by mark thompson
DG. wrote:Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:mark thompson wrote:HATTON
Lets see up until his 38th fight when he fought Tyszu hadn't faced a top 10 opponent in his division.
After beating Tyszu opted against unifying against the top 2 champions - Mayweather/Cotto who were both offered to him and faced Maussa (who was coming off a loss to Witter's unworthy defense in Morua and would be taken out in 1 by Ortiz). Is this taking the toughest challenge/fight?
Then faces Collazo the weakest Welter champ despite been offered a fight with Mayweather. Note many had Collazo winning and Hatton didnt rematch despite saying he would to Collazo. Is this taking the toughest challenge/fight?
Then instead of facing the top Welters or Light Welters, he faces the weakest 140lb belt holder in Urango who was coming off a gift in most fans eyes against Rabah. Urango had not and still hasn't beat anyone of note. Is this taking the toughest challenge/fight?
Then he faces Castillo who was coming off a gift against Herman Ngoudjo and this was Castillo's only fight in 11months. Castillo's last fight at lightweight was a KO loss and his last win over a top opponent was when he cheated the scales against Corrales. Castillo would lose to journeyman Lujan the next year
Then faces Mayweather, the toughest challenge for a boat load of cash, cant complain about this 1
Then faces Lazcano - comeback fight but obviously not the toughest challenge/fight?
Then he fhttp://forum.boxrec.com/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=1503324#
aces Mallignaggi, most fight fans had Mallignaggi losing his last 2 fights to Herman Ngoudgo and Ndou (Witter victim incidently)
Hatton despite an admitadly impressive career has turned down fights with Cotto, Witter, Corley, Harris, Ukral and turned down Mayweather from 2005-2007. He also has not fought the best 140lber contenders since he became champ - Mayweather (wouldnt face him at 140), Cotto, Witter, Ngoudjo, Harris, Bradley, Holt, Kotelnik
Mark Thompson only knows 2 fighters, Hatton and Zelenoff.
and Bruno
(what a wanker)
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 24 Nov 2008, 16:33
by DG.
bbjc wrote:Good point DG never actually thought of that. However think we realize Hatton's only really been fighting guys around world class after the tszyu fight it has been a well planned career as allegedly allegedly is very good at.
From around 2006 these guys have only had a few fights after Hatton bit unfair on guys like collazo and urango. Out of the 8 fights including tyszu - him malinaggi floyd and lazcano have never fought since not really hattons fault is it. Now boxers are fighting around once or twice per year. Maussa was pish i will give you that.
Not really sure what you think of Hatton as a fighter do you not rate him at all or do you think at the very top level hes not good enough would be interested to know. If that is your argument maybe your right but Hatton is world class.
Is it that you dont like him as a person or as a boxer
Again i say stick hatton in with the best of them he deserves to be in there think a lot of these guys get hyped up a lot. He may not win but neither does oscar for example.
A bit mystified at your constant digging of hatton and then pick witter as a world beater hes effing murder m8
Word up, bbjc.
I think Hatton is a very good European fighter and a good fighter at wolrd level.
He is a hypocrite with all this man of the people 3rd person witter -cotto - urkal - corley - judah dodging self.
A calzaghe level fighter he aint!
No hate for the guy, but he does not come across as genuine.
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 24 Nov 2008, 17:24
by stujones
Harsh DG,
If Hatton fought Corley - he wouldn't have fought Tszyu.... similar to Harris. Hatton would have been out of the IBF rankings.
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 24 Nov 2008, 17:31
by DG.
stujones wrote:Harsh DG,
If Hatton fought Corley - he wouldn't have fought Tszyu.... similar to Harris. Hatton would have been out of the IBF rankings.
Not so harsh.
He tuned down a European Tilte Shot.
A WBO Title Shot (Remember this is the man who loved the WBU)
He could easily have fought Corley for the belt and NOT paid the sanctioning fee - but I am not sure the Corley fights would have been an issue.
He has no excuse for dodging Cotto and PBF for years.
How many times did he say he was not reay form PBF? at least 3!
PBF brought the biggest pay day of his career at the time.LUCKILY he was given a shot later.
99% of the fighters out there would have fought PBF given the chance.
Fighters choose the easy route hence my thread on the 'fighters' who fight the best and not the businessmen.
RJJ - PBF are NOT on my list for those reasons - it's business to them.
Hatton is no different in my book.
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 24 Nov 2008, 18:32
by stujones
PBF was a Lightweight for years.... it wasn't till after the Tszyu fight he stepped up, and Floyd didn't exactly stick around at 140 for a long time.
He fought Floyd at bang on the perfect time in their career - he was coming off his best win (Floyd).
Re: Old Time Fighters
Posted: 24 Nov 2008, 18:53
by DG.
stujones wrote:PBF was a Lightweight for years.... it wasn't till after the Tszyu fight he stepped up, and Floyd didn't exactly stick around at 140 for a long time.
He fought Floyd at bang on the perfect time in their career - he was coming off his best win (Floyd).
He stuck around long enough to call out Hatton and send contracts to him more than once, Hatton did not want the fight.
Good fighter, but dodged too many to e considered for my list!
Adios people.DG is off to bed!