BoxRec

sorry i took so long to reply, been hard at work and just home.

froch is hungry for legacy, calzaghe is hungry for money...massive difference between the 2, joe got dropped early in last 2 fights, then was let off the hook, joe has also been down against worse fighters than froch. the froch of today is better than the RJJ of today. therefore, i think froch would stop calzaghe.... late on i think..... styles make fights remember.

i also think calzaghe would have problems v pavlik.

rhino222 wrote: the froch of today is better than the RJJ of today. therefore, i think froch would stop calzaghe.... late on i think..... styles make fights remember.

I think that's a way too simplistic view. RJJ may have put Calzaghe down (with the help of a forearm), but it's not like he came close to stopping him, in fact he was badly outclassed. So yes, Froch may be better than Jones these days, but then again he'd have to be, to have any chance against Calzaghe.

And the whole styles make fights thing, whilst true, works both ways. Froch is still far, far too open to being hit. I can't see Joe stopping him, but I can see him moving around Froch and using his speed to win a wide decision. Froch can be a bit awkward, but he's also somewhat one-paced.

Let's not get carried away with Froch beating Pascal. It was a terrific fight, but whilst the WBC had Pascal ranked top ten, the IBF, WBO, WBA, IBO, Fightnews, Boxrec, ESPN and The Ring didn't. It's a good introduction to world-class for Carl, in my opinion, not an indication that he's going to stop Calzaghe.

I really hope Froch can get the Taylor fight even if he lost to Taylor his stock would rise in America. Unfortunately we cant say 'if the Taylor fight doesnt come off then fight xxx instead' because the WBC will decide his next 2 mandatories.

With Hennessy having Murray and Tyson Fury now tho I can see a big bill in Manchester's MEN arena being lined up, possibly with Froch headlining.

Ant Evans wrote:

states wrote:Joe was not 'almost Ko'd in 30 seconds' by either Hopkins or Jones, Ant, let's not go overboard. I actually thought Saturday night showed up Carl's power a bit. He can certainly hit, but can he get the top class guys out of there? Pascal has hardly proven himself to be Eubank in the Chin department, has he?

Calzaghe by reasonably comfortable decision, if it does happen. Which it won't.

Take you point on Carl's power. But Joe's "pow-ah" has been proved to be very average. Hitting an opponent 1000 times and him staying up hardly impressive is it?

No, which is why I didn't say anything about Calzaghe's power, or lack thereof.

jameswilson wrote:I really hope Froch can get the Taylor fight even if he lost to Taylor his stock would rise in America. Unfortunately we cant say 'if the Taylor fight doesnt come off then fight xxx instead' because the WBC will decide his next 2 mandatories.

With Hennessy having Murray and Tyson Fury now tho I can see a big bill in Manchester's MEN arena being lined up, possibly with Froch headlining.

Does Warren still have an exclusive contract with the MEN for boxing (they must be mad, he's only used the venue twice in 2 years) if so it won't happen there...

It still astounds me people still giving the `carl ko`s calzaghe`

I too previous to the pascal fight had gotten carried away with the Cobra`s power .. and over looked alot of perfermances where he`d landed and not really got the devastating effect you`d expect.

Sure Calzaghe wouldn`t be ever expected to stop Carl, but he`d just easilly outpoint and make carl look silly in a very onesided fight.

People bang on about Lacy,Hopkins and Jones as some way to prove a point ... a point I just see desperate and ill thought out .. Pascal is carls best opponent to date, Pascal himself prior to Froch hadn`t fought anybody of note ... who`s to say they didn`t just make each other look good .. at their level?

Great fight though.

tonyevs wrote:It still astounds me people still giving the `carl ko`s calzaghe`

I too previous to the pascal fight had gotten carried away with the Cobra`s power .. and over looked alot of perfermances where he`d landed and not really got the devastating effect you`d expect.

Sure Calzaghe wouldn`t be ever expected to stop Carl, but he`d just easilly outpoint and make carl look silly in a very onesided fight.

People bang on about Lacy,Hopkins and Jones as some way to prove a point ... a point I just see desperate and ill thought out .. Pascal is carls best opponent to date, Pascal himself prior to Froch hadn`t fought anybody of note ... who`s to say they didn`t just make each other look good .. at their level?

Great fight though.

Who's to say that Froch and Pascal aren't the best 2 SM's in the division?

3 time world champion Mikel Kessler is the best 168 pounder. Froch has a claim at second place. But only a claim. As do Bute (to a lesser extent), possibly Inkin and definitely Taylor.

I see how easy it is to get carried away but they were 2 well matched fighters who found it easy to hit each other making a great action fight. It doesn't make either a top tier fighter. It's like watching Gatti v Ward and saying that Mayweather would want no part of Gatti (which might have been what happened, i don't remember).

The better the fighters the less they get hit that's why Calzaghe v Hopkins was in a different league in regards to skill and much less exciting. I'm surprised that G0mez is proving more level headed than most on this. I agree that Calzaghe will outspeed and out skill Calzaghe but i disagree that he'd have any luck in stopping him. His combinations aren't neat enough, Calzaghe can certainly be dropped with one shot but his chin is too good to be KO'd by one shot.
Pascal was on rubber legs against Omar Pittman in his last fight and that's why i believe he was steered away from the proposed Edison Miranda fight. Froch bangs his unguarded chin again and again and can't get the same affect. I think Froch's power at the top level should be reassessed.
Calzaghe has fought a few people capable of knocking him out but it hasn't happened for a reason. If Froch walked through Kessler (in the next 12 months) Calzaghe may regret not fighting him from his retirement rocking chair but that would be a huge if.

rhino222 wrote:sorry i took so long to reply, been hard at work and just home.
i also think calzaghe would have problems v pavlik.

Rhino, you really have been working too hard if you think a one-dimensional fighter like Pavlik (jab, jab, big right hand - repeat for 12 rounds) who doesn't look able to carry his power up above middleweight could give Calzaghe any problems at all

Chambers2 wrote:

tonyevs wrote:It still astounds me people still giving the `carl ko`s calzaghe`

I too previous to the pascal fight had gotten carried away with the Cobra`s power .. and over looked alot of perfermances where he`d landed and not really got the devastating effect you`d expect.

Sure Calzaghe wouldn`t be ever expected to stop Carl, but he`d just easilly outpoint and make carl look silly in a very onesided fight.

People bang on about Lacy,Hopkins and Jones as some way to prove a point ... a point I just see desperate and ill thought out .. Pascal is carls best opponent to date, Pascal himself prior to Froch hadn`t fought anybody of note ... who`s to say they didn`t just make each other look good .. at their level?

Great fight though.

Who's to say that Froch and Pascal aren't the best 2 SM's in the division?[/quote]

And thats likely isn`t it DD

Shirow wrote:I see how easy it is to get carried away but they were 2 well matched fighters who found it easy to hit each other making a great action fight. It does make either a top tier fighter. It's like watching Gatti v Ward and saying that Mayweather would want no part of Gatti (which might have been what happened, i don't remember).

The better the fighters the less they get hit that's why Calzaghe v Hopkins was in a different league in regards to skill and much less exciting. I'm surprised that G0mez is proving more level headed than most on this. I agree that Calzaghe will outspeed and out skill Calzaghe but i disagree that he'd have any luck in stopping him. His combinations aren't neat enough, Calzaghe can certainly be dropped with one shot but his chin is too good to be KO'd by one shot.
Pascal was on rubber legs against Omar Pittman in his last fight and that's why i believe he was steered away from the proposed Edison Miranda fight. Froch bangs his unguarded chin again and again and can't get the same affect. I think Froch's power at the top level should be reassessed.
Calzaghe has fought a few people capable of knocking him out but it hasn't happened for a reason. If Froch walked through Kessler (in the next 12 months) Calzaghe may regret not fighting him from his retirement rocking chair but that would be a huge if.

I really agree, in boxing hitting hard is the easy thing, not getting hit is the real talent.
Both Pascall and Froch got hit far too much in that fight to be elite fighters.

Watching from close to ringside last week I was surprised by the lack of variety in Froch's work. It was like one of the old sega megadrive games where because the joypad only had 3 buttons your character would only perform 3 attacks.
Those 3 attacks have been more than enough so far though.

It's going to be a very interesting reign while it lasts and I plan to be there for the ride. As others have commented, Froch (like Haye) is a breath of fresh air. Articulate, willing to take risks and just possibly the best in the world.

Coco wrote:in boxing hitting hard is the easy thing, not getting hit is the real talent.
Both Pascall and Froch got hit far too much in that fight to be elite fighters.

is that the test of an elite fighter now? is Margarito not elite? Julio Cesar Chavez?

If you are going to get hit you better have a good chin and come back with better. That is what Froch (and Margarito, and Chavez) do.

Eurosport screened the WBC Internation Super middleweight title fight won by Steiglitz, which apparently make him eligible for a shot at world champion Froch.

Not the best out there by a long way, but certainly a damn sight better than Branco Sobot.

chinny wrote:

Coco wrote:in boxing hitting hard is the easy thing, not getting hit is the real talent.
Both Pascall and Froch got hit far too much in that fight to be elite fighters.

is that the test of an elite fighter now? is Margarito not elite? Julio Cesar Chavez?

If you are going to get hit you better have a good chin and come back with better. That is what Froch (and Margarito, and Chavez) do.

Margarito borders on a freak of nature while Chavez rarely got hit that cleanly in his prime - much like Duran, as he was such a great offensive fighter, his defensive skills were not given the credit they deserved.
Pointing to an exception to the rule like Margarito does not make the rule invalid. As a general rule it's bang on.

Ant Evans wrote:Joe's legacy is based on a completely overhyped Lacy, an awesome win over Kessler, and two bores against old men.

Froch would KO Calzslappy. Let's be real: Jones hasn't dropped an opponent in over seven years - but he almost KO'd Joe in 30seconds. And Hopkins hasn't scored a KO in four years himself yet he broke Joe's nose and almost KO'd Joe, again, within seconds.

Froch would drop Joe too, and put him back there when he got up.

Yeah, Joe would hit Froch a lot with Carl's pretty wide open defense but if Joe can't stopped chinny-chin-chinny Jones despite landing nearly 800 shots, how can Joe hurt Froch?

He was nowhere near Ko'd, he was down because he got hit with shots he didn't see coming early in the fights, it happens, he wasn't exactly stumbling around when he got up was he.

He doesn't need to hurt Froch, he can just slap him around for 12 rounds.

Anyway:

What were many posters saying last week?

Froch beating Pascal makes no difference to his standing in America? Taylor will be interested in neither the fight nor the title? As it turns out, beating Pascal for the vacant WBC title seems to have opened a lot of things up.

It has opened doors because Froch proved himself to be an exciting fighter but eminently beatable

Autobarn wrote:Anyway:

What were many posters saying last week?

Froch beating Pascal makes no difference to his standing in America? Taylor will be interested in neither the fight nor the title? As it turns out, beating Pascal for the vacant WBC title seems to have opened a lot of things up.

Yup I recall a few people saying that it wouldn't make any difference to his career whilst pointing at Junior Witters brief reign at 140 as the blueprint, but I think Saturday will have done wonders for Carls career, especially niow that JT and JC are fighting to get in the ring with the Frochmeister

Coco wrote:It has opened doors because Froch proved himself to be an exciting fighter but eminently beatable

That's what Carl wants them to think Lets see them try and put their feeble gameplans into action when Carls walking them down snarling and banging away at their faces with uppercuts and straight rights

Chambers2 wrote:

Coco wrote:It has opened doors because Froch proved himself to be an exciting fighter but eminently beatable

That's what Carl wants them to think Lets see them try and put their feeble gameplans into action when Carls walking them down snarling and banging away at their faces with uppercuts and straight rights

I think it's a great fight for Froch, he will have big cash, American tv exposure and a decent chance of winning, esp if he can secure a Nottingham location

I think before Saturday, Jean Pascal had come in with a reputation for being a little bit chinny with over-protected unbeaten record. The truth is I think he was a lot better then most of us realised. After five round I had it dead level, but more worryingly Froch's power wasn't having the effect I was expecting it to have on Pascal. At that point I was worried the fight could slip away from Carl, but in the second half he went into the trenches and won the fight on workrate and pure desire to be victorious. I know someone who knew Carl as an amateur and they would always run Carl down saying as soon as he was in a life and death struggle he would quit on his stool as he didn't have enough heart. Well we always knew Carl had a great chin, but on Saturday he proved he had a massive heart as well. It reminded me a little bit of the Brian Magee fight when Carl hurt both his hands early, but out-toughed the Irishman in the late rounds.
Unlike Joe Calzaghe's early reign I think there are many great fights out there for Carl; Unifications fights with Mikel Kessler and Lucian Bute, American foe like Andre Dirrell and Andre Ward or in a couple of years an epic British showdown with Kenny Anderson (providing the Scotsman keeps winning). I really don't think Froch needs Calzaghe to build a respectable legacy, after all Calzaghe is pushing 37.

Congratulations Carl; WBC super-middleweight champion.

Terry D wrote:

Autobarn wrote:Anyway:

What were many posters saying last week?

Froch beating Pascal makes no difference to his standing in America? Taylor will be interested in neither the fight nor the title? As it turns out, beating Pascal for the vacant WBC title seems to have opened a lot of things up.

Or could it be that they watched the fight, saw how open both men were and thought, "May as well squeeze it in".

Perhaps we should crow about Froch taking over the world consciousness when the next fight gets announced. Great if it is Taylor in the US on HBO, not so great if it is some guy in Nottingham so that Carl can grow into his title, which he has a right to do.

Seconded. I'm still on the station with regard to the Froch express.

Coco wrote:

Chambers2 wrote:

Coco wrote:It has opened doors because Froch proved himself to be an exciting fighter but eminently beatable

That's what Carl wants them to think Lets see them try and put their feeble gameplans into action when Carls walking them down snarling and banging away at their faces with uppercuts and straight rights

I think it's a great fight for Froch, he will have big cash, American tv exposure and a decent chance of winning, esp if he can secure a Nottingham location

I think Carl could be travelling to the US for his next fight, now that Taylor and DiBella seem interested in the WBC title again. That'll do wonders for his profile on the world scene especially when he goes and sparks Taylor.

I'd love to know some of the details of the contract between Hennessy and ITV, as it doesn't seem as though ITV are pressuring Mick for primetime Carl Froch shows seeing as Mick and Carl are offering their services in the US (Taylor) and Canada (Bute). Will ITV be happy to show the fights live in the early hours? so many questions..... drop us a PM Our Mick I'll keep schtum