BoxRec

E wrote:The list is a good one. Lewis is so overrated by this forum. He got knocked out cold by 2 journeymen.

His opponents are very good but not exceptional.

McCall knocked Lewis out cold???? Don`t think so. Bad stoppage IMO.

E wrote:

fluxstuff wrote:How can Joe be above Lennox...?

Because pound 4 pound he's better

You must have serious issues with Lennox then, and the two journeyman he was beaten by? Rahman and McCall? Hardly journeymen pal.

Not great, I agree, but journeymen?! With HUGE punches and in the case of Oliver, a solid chin....

Gobbles -

Very naive. Don't you remember Bowe putting his belt in the bin?

And Lewis spanked him in the Olympic final.

The entire post is flawed.

Captain Hook wrote:Gobbles -

Very naive. Don't you remember Bowe putting his belt in the bin?

And Lewis spanked him in the Olympic final.

The entire post is flawed.

My view would be that amateur records shouldn't count in such a list.
He put his belt in the bin after negotiations had failed, not because he was running away. Why did negotiations fail? Bowe said Lewis insisted on 50-50, when Bowe was the champion. How much truth is in that? I don't know. Certainly the Tyson he fought was more past his best than the Jones that Calzaghe fought, while Holyfield was past his prime and he sneaked past him. Despite the outrage of the first fight, several people had that close (Colin Hart in The Sun had it a draw), several people had Holyfield winning the rematch, but he was always going to get the call after the first fight.
When all these people claim Calzaghe ducked x, y and z without any proof, Lewis actually took step aside money to avoid Tyson. My point is not to put Lewis down, but as the majority of people here seemed determined to ridicule Calzaghe's achievements. You can't get away from the fact that Lewis was knocked out twice, but the views of some people here seem to be along the lines that losing is as good for the CV as winning.
Lewis is also marked down by lots of people because it was him that started the negative safety-first tactics that Wladimir has now adopted. Some of his fights were dreadful and his opponents were dreadful. Klitschko has shown us how poor Rahman was, Mavrovic, Botha. He had life and death with Mercer - another fight many in the US though he lost.

gobbles wrote:

Captain Hook wrote:Gobbles -

Very naive. Don't you remember Bowe putting his belt in the bin?

And Lewis spanked him in the Olympic final.

The entire post is flawed.

My view would be that amateur records shouldn't count in such a list.
He put his belt in the bin after negotiations had failed, not because he was running away. Why did negotiations fail? Bowe said Lewis insisted on 50-50, when Bowe was the champion. How much truth is in that? I don't know. Certainly the Tyson he fought was more past his best than the Jones that Calzaghe fought, while Holyfield was past his prime and he sneaked past him. Despite the outrage of the first fight, several people had that close (Colin Hart in The Sun had it a draw), several people had Holyfield winning the rematch, but he was always going to get the call after the first fight.
When all these people claim Calzaghe ducked x, y and z without any proof, Lewis actually took step aside money to avoid Tyson. My point is not to put Lewis down, but as the majority of people here seemed determined to ridicule Calzaghe's achievements. You can't get away from the fact that Lewis was knocked out twice, but the views of some people here seem to be along the lines that losing is as good for the CV as winning.
Lewis is also marked down by lots of people because it was him that started the negative safety-first tactics that Wladimir has now adopted. Some of his fights were dreadful and his opponents were dreadful. Klitschko has shown us how poor Rahman was, Mavrovic, Botha. He had life and death with Mercer - another fight many in the US though he lost.

Amateur records? We are not talking the junior ABAs here mate, we're talking the olympic final.

And it is relevant because they fought once and Lewis won.

Lewis, in my opinion, is our great boxing export.

Fought every challenger, avenged his only two defeats and had a great KO record. He was a terrific boxer and could never be accused of ducking anybody.

I rate Calzaghe but he did not take on all-comers, as Lennox did across the globe.

What a ridiculous comment gobbles

Tyson offered Lewis step-aside money so he didn't have to face him, Lennox refused to take it because he was the mandatory challenger for the WBC title which Tyson held at the time and when Tyson stepped into the ring against Bruce Seldon he was stripped of the WBC belt.

Zelley wrote:There is much discussion about Lennox Lewis, but should he be classified as a British Boxer or a Canadian boxer, or both.

Both.

He was born in Britain which makes him British and he's also a Canadian citizen which makes him Canadian.

Lloyd Honeyghan was born in Jamaica yet holds British citizenship but nobody disputes him being British do they?

banjo wrote:What a ridiculous comment gobbles

Tyson offered Lewis step-aside money so he didn't have to face him, Lennox refused to take it because he was the mandatory challenger for the WBC title which Tyson held at the time and when Tyson stepped into the ring against Bruce Seldon he was stripped of the WBC belt.

He took $4m from Tyson in stepaside money, so he could fight Seldon and then Holyfield, although the WBC title was not on the line for those. The title was only given up when Holyfield won the fight and triggered a rematch clause. That was my memory of it.
If you accuse other people of being ridiculous, putting in "smilies" doesn't help your argument.

Captain Hook wrote:

gobbles wrote:

Captain Hook wrote:Gobbles -

Very naive. Don't you remember Bowe putting his belt in the bin?

And Lewis spanked him in the Olympic final.

The entire post is flawed.

My view would be that amateur records shouldn't count in such a list.
He put his belt in the bin after negotiations had failed, not because he was running away. Why did negotiations fail? Bowe said Lewis insisted on 50-50, when Bowe was the champion. How much truth is in that? I don't know. Certainly the Tyson he fought was more past his best than the Jones that Calzaghe fought, while Holyfield was past his prime and he sneaked past him. Despite the outrage of the first fight, several people had that close (Colin Hart in The Sun had it a draw), several people had Holyfield winning the rematch, but he was always going to get the call after the first fight.
When all these people claim Calzaghe ducked x, y and z without any proof, Lewis actually took step aside money to avoid Tyson. My point is not to put Lewis down, but as the majority of people here seemed determined to ridicule Calzaghe's achievements. You can't get away from the fact that Lewis was knocked out twice, but the views of some people here seem to be along the lines that losing is as good for the CV as winning.
Lewis is also marked down by lots of people because it was him that started the negative safety-first tactics that Wladimir has now adopted. Some of his fights were dreadful and his opponents were dreadful. Klitschko has shown us how poor Rahman was, Mavrovic, Botha. He had life and death with Mercer - another fight many in the US though he lost.

Amateur records? We are not talking the junior ABAs here mate, we're talking the olympic final.

And it is relevant because they fought once and Lewis won.

Lewis, in my opinion, is our great boxing export.

Fought every challenger, avenged his only two defeats and had a great KO record. He was a terrific boxer and could never be accused of ducking anybody.

I rate Calzaghe but he did not take on all-comers, as Lennox did across the globe.

Really, he is our great boxing import. because, while he was born here, he learnt to box in Canada. Strange we can talk about a British list and an Olympic title for another country. Would Kostya Tszyu's world amateur title for Russia make him a better Australian boxer?

sg1985 wrote:of the topic but we were talking about riddick bowe. why did he retire when he did in the 90's?

Struggled with weight, lost desire after his two fights with Golota. I think he would say he never actually retired but was frozen out.

The way Joe bangs on about Italy and the fact that he was within an inch of boxing for Italy as an amateur kind of negates your point, Gobbles. Sure it was wrong for Wales to freeze him out of their squad and whom could blame him for thinking it ?

But back on topic, whichever way you cut it, Calzaghe is not no4 and and Lewis will always rank above him in accomplishments in the eyes of all, but the blindest Calzaghe fan.

It's like comparing an unbeaten Cardiff city defending at home to the likes of Macclesfield town - to Real Madrid touring the biggest clubs in Europe and the South Americas and thrashing 19 out of 20 teams they play. Same sport, but a different level. My point is anyone can look good against an opponent at the end of their career, anyone can dazzle the public by thrashing someone who was never world-class in the first place.

The one time Joe mixed it at true World level out of his comfort zone abroad , he arguably lost the fight in a third of the viewers eyes (1 judge scored for Hopkins) and he was put down heavy.

Wheras Lennox spent his entire career at the top of a deep pile of big-punching threatening opponents like Klitchko, Tua, Holyfield - each and every fight could have been ended with just 1 solitary punch. Betting your money on Lennox was not the safe bet as putting it on Joe who has always been the stacked-on favourite. But that is to say Lennox is not as good as Joe - It's because that's the difference at Heavyweight, blink and it's over.

Lennox could have easily sat in Wales and fought nobodies, 2 a year for a decade whilst defending his Warren Boxing Organisation title. But let's say he never fought Holyfield, Tua, Mason, Klitchko, Bruno, Grant, Mercer, Tyson and just fought people you'd never even heard of before (or after) like Evans Ashira (2 divisions lighter than Joe)... Manfredo is the equivalent of butterbean (famous for nothing).

But could Calzaghe have defended the big 3 titles in a deep division across NYC, Las Vegas, Atlantic city and set a $103m record for PPV sales that still stands today ?

Calzaghe is class and although his style ain't my cup of tea, he gets the job done generally.

But he hasn't accomplished what Lennox has. Not even half of it.

sg1985 wrote:

gobbles wrote:

sg1985 wrote:of the topic but we were talking about riddick bowe. why did he retire when he did in the 90's?

Struggled with weight, lost desire after his two fights with Golota.

i knew he always struggled with weight, i still cant believe he retired when he did, with the record he had, especially without ever facing tyson.

Yeah, just couldn't gte down to heavyweight anymore!

Lynch and Driscoll and Lewis should be ahead of Calzaghe. Freddie Welsh should also be in the top 10, regardless of where he fought because he was definitely Welsh therefore British. Fitzsimmon's nationality of some debate, so I can see why he might not get into the British list. I also think Naseem should get into the top 10 on achievements, ahead of Moran or Turpin.