BoxRec

Also to debunk a myth.
This was not even the first professional fight of Jack Johnson's to have been stopped by the police.
During his first fight with Claude Brooks aka Black Bill (for the'Colored" Heavyweight championship,
in Philadelphia,February 1904.
The contest was deemed
'too violent'and was stopped after the sixth round.
Source MY LIFE AND BATTLES originally published in French in 1911.

About the short right uppercut that floored Burns in the first round.
Years later he described the effect,
"the World spun crazily",
"A huge red blur obscured everthing".
despite that Burns got up at eight count,then reportly hurled himself at Johnson,even landing a right on his face before the bell rang.
Anyone know why all the boxing historians of the past 40 years keep dissing him(Burns),
for even trying againts the odds of fighting a bigger,taller ,heavier and more skilled fighter?

klompton wrote:The statement that the film was stopped by police is a myth. The scene that is always shown as burns taking punishment and the film stopping in mid fall for burns is actually from an earlier point in the fight and burns doesnt even go down, even though he looks like he is about to. If you have you have the complete footage that exists (which is not the whole film) you can see this quite clearly.

Is it possible we have been mistaken all these years as to the footage of the fight when allegedly the camera was stopped in the fourteenth round?
Check this out from Jack Johnson's MY LIFE AND BATTLES(page 73),


"When the bell for the thirteenth round rang.
I told myself it was time to finish things,
"So I unleashed such a shower of blows that Tommy was staggering like a drunkard when the bell rang".

Regarding the Fourteenth round,
"At the bell,I rushed at my opponent.He backed up prudently,but I chased after him and landed a terrific right hand to his head.He fell on the ground and stayed there until the count of eight.Then he got back up on wobbly legs".

Has anyone here seen a complete 3 minute round of this fight?
Can you tell for sure from which rounds the may be from,such round card or clock in the background?


Does the fight footage sound to you like it may actually be from the thirteenth round?

Brutu wrote: Is it possible we have been mistaken all these years as to the footage of the fight when allegedly the camera was stopped in the fourteenth round?
Check this out from Jack Johnson's MY LIFE AND BATTLES(page 73),

After Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Johnson's autobiography ranks as my favorite piece of fiction.

Round by round report, if there is a demand I'll post more.
FIRST ROUND
After a few moments of preliminary sparring
Jpbnson reached Burns with a sharp
uppercut and the Canadian went to the floor remaining there for the count of
eight; He signaled to his seconds that
he was all right however, and when
he arose sailed in for Johnson's body.
Johnson swung a hard right to the
head and Burns staggered backward nearly acrosg the ring from the impact
of the blow. Then Burns, rushing in,
planted right of great force on Johnson's
chin and by an excellent display
of boxing he warded off a return.Johnson, nevertheless managed to put
through a stinging left to the. head at
the sound of, the gong.
SECOND ROUND.
When tho gong
clanged Johnson yelled across to the approaching Burns,''Come right on" and he swung
his right and landed on Burns' chin.
The champions ankle gave way under him and he went down. He was
up immediately however and Johnson
got to a close quarters with him and
placed his riglit and left to face and
body..Burns left eye here commenced
to swell. Johnson, thus far had the
better of the battle. The big black
man was coming all the time and he
swung a terrlfic left into Burns stomach.
Burns was doing but little. He
was bleeding from the mouth and apparently
was tired. The men were
clinched as the bell rang.
THIRD ROUND
Burns swung his right to Johnson's
head and then did
some wonderful execution of infight-
ing, chopping his right to the ribs
frequently. Johnson during the round
landed some terrific blows to the kidneys.|

Thanks for posting the round-by-round report, donnellon! Can you let us know the source, please?

According to the book on Burns v Johnson by Jeff Wells (Boxing Day: The Fight that Changed the World, HarperSports, Sydney, 1998), the newspapers of the time carried reports on the fight that varied wildly. Bill Corbett, writing as 'The Amateur' for Sydney sporting newspaper the Referee, was bewildered that the fight was stopped by police, arguing that Burns was on his way back in round 14 (!). Other accounts are unequivocal about Johnson's thrashing of Burns.

SanFrancisco Call, December 26.

THIRTEENTH ROUND

Johnson continued to play for
the injured eye and the bleeding mouth
of Burns', which iwas swollen twice its
normal size Blow after blow of the
colored' man rained upon him , and the
gong alone saved the whiteiman from
defeat, for he was reeling and groggy
as it rang. During the intermission be -
tween the thirteenth and fourteenth
rounds the police officials consulted to -
gether and the probability was that
they would stop the fight in the next
round. Referee Mclntosh went to Burns
corner and had a talk with the cham -
pion who declared that he was strong."
Mclntosh then aaked the police not to
interfere.
FOURTEENTH ROUND
Johnson went right
after Burns when time was called. Burns warily
backed away but Johnson following
him up dropped Burns with a right
to the head. "One, two. three," slowly
counted the referee and Burns re -
mained down until eight seconds had
been reeled off. When he arose Johnson
flew at him like a tiger, and using
both hands unmercifully, soon had the
champion tottering. The police then
jumped into the ring and stopped the fight.
The referee mmediately declared
Johnson the winner.

donnellon wrote:SanFrancisco Call, December 26.

--- Seriously doubt the SF Call had a boxing writer on site which calls into question, who's observation is this, a local?

Not many would dispute the victory, but from what I've seen, Tommy was game and landed some shots. He proposed a rematch which was never accepted, probably because it would take place in Canada.

Tommy maintained he wouldn't fight such a stupid fight again by allowing himself to be tied up and look childish. If he used a stick and move approach which wasn't in vogue then but he had the footwork and offense for, he could present some difficulties for Johnson.

At any rate, I'd have thought Burns would've paid out more than the Ross and Flynn fights at least.

dempseyfire wrote:

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

observer1 wrote: Correct me if im wrong

--- You're wrong.

Part of the prefight agreement in order to get the fight held was the fight to be stopped in advance of severe punishment. Pretty routine stuff in those days since prizefighting was not publically popular with politicians. Two of Johnson's corner crawled under the ring, probably to secure the round Johnson bet on and yelled for the police to stop the bout after Jack opened up.

Burns was never knocked out and finally boxrec changed the result from TKO to points win.

Lotta myths about Johnson being rectified.

Broughton, the film clearly shows Johnson landing a good deal of flush shots on Burns prior to the film stopping. He was tired and hurt and going to get knocked out. Not only the film but the sporting press present agreed.

Careful with ESPN classic films. They are poorly edited and the moderator’s voice is often wrong on the facts. The round ESPN shows where they claim the fight ends, is not round 14.

You can get all 13 rounds of the fight from a fight collector if you are known among traders.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

donnellon wrote:SanFrancisco Call, December 26.

--- Seriously doubt the SF Call had a boxing writer on site which calls into question, who's observation is this, a local?

Not many would dispute the victory, but from what I've seen, Tommy was game and landed some shots. He proposed a rematch which was never accepted, probably because it would take place in Canada.

Tommy maintained he wouldn't fight such a stupid fight again by allowing himself to be tied up and look childish. If he used a stick and move approach which wasn't in vogue then but he had the footwork and offense for, he could present some difficulties for Johnson.

At any rate, I'd have thought Burns would've paid out more than the Ross and Flynn fights at least.

all
The Call by-lined their articles "a special cable for the CalL", dated Sydney, 26th. their coverage is very extensive with direct quotes from Johnson,Burns, Jeffries and others. Burns described Jack as the best man he had met.

Why didnt some company or someone just release all 14 rounds on a special edition 100th anniversary edition DVD of the fight?
Except this time with no blabby left wing social commentery but strictckly as a fight analyses.
They could put info facts on bottom of screen as a bonus,
instead of just inviviting a couple of boxing historian twits still feeling effects of their brewskies,stumbling what to to say.

Yeah, I read too were someone from Johnson's camp(a South African welterweight)
got under the ring apron somewhere around round 10
and started yelling"Stop the fight!",Stop the fight!".
Because when you think about it,its absurd to think anyone in the crowd who had placed a bet on Tommy Burns wanted to see the fight stopped.
I wonder if the person under the ring apron was yelling in a high pitched voice so someone thought it was Mrs.Burns who was yelling?

The entire fight doesnt exist on film. Neither does even 13 rounds.

gt the fight well 5 rounds off it including the bit where the police stop the camera when they intervine

Adamj1987 wrote:gt the fight well 5 rounds off it including the bit where the police stop the camera when they intervine

Do you see the police in the ring?

Also, is it true that Burns was at a low weight of 168 pounds as Box Rec reports?

pound per pound wrote:

Adamj1987 wrote:gt the fight well 5 rounds off it including the bit where the police stop the camera when they intervine

Do you see the police in the ring?

Also, is it true that Burns was at a low weight of 168 pounds as Box Rec reports?

no the fight footage stopps as johnson is firing a right whist burns is ducking to his right

the police stopped the recording before they entered the ring

burns weight isnt announced but he looks alot smalled than johnson who is said to be 212 by the comentator

dempseyfire wrote:

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

observer1 wrote: Correct me if im wrong

--- You're wrong.

Part of the prefight agreement in order to get the fight held was the fight to be stopped in advance of severe punishment. Pretty routine stuff in those days since prizefighting was not publically popular with politicians. Two of Johnson's corner crawled under the ring, probably to secure the round Johnson bet on and yelled for the police to stop the bout after Jack opened up.

Burns was never knocked out and finally boxrec changed the result from TKO to points win.

Lotta myths about Johnson being rectified.

Broughton, the film clearly shows Johnson landing a good deal of flush shots on Burns prior to the film stopping. He was tired and hurt and going to get knocked out. Not only the film but the sporting press present agreed.

You are correct. The film has been used to mulitple Johnson docs.

Broughton is the current troll poster who tries educate others with stuff he completely makes up. He is the successor to Decagon. Eventually he will leave & we will have another troll poster here to present himself as the boxing authority.

overhand_right wrote:

dempseyfire wrote: Broughton, the film clearly shows Johnson landing a good deal of flush shots on Burns prior to the film stopping. He was tired and hurt and going to get knocked out. Not only the film but the sporting press present agreed.

You are correct. The film has been used to mulitple Johnson docs.

Broughton is the current troll poster who tries educate others with stuff he completely makes up. He is the successor to Decagon. Eventually he will leave & we will have another troll poster here to present himself as the boxing authority.

- Can't educate a slug that the alleged KO footage is actually Burns being KDed earlier in the fight.

Or at least is seems to be per the claims of those who claim to have all the existing footage in the proper order. The bout has been long changed in boxrec from TKO to points win, but regrettably the format cannot be translated into sluggese for interested slugs.

In terms of hypocrisy that is about as bad as the warthog saying to the walrus, 'by Jove, Cyril, you're a messy eater'.

(Have you found any footage of George Foreman knocking down Jimmy Young yet?)

Collins2000 wrote: (Have you found any footage of George Foreman knocking down Jimmy Young yet?)

- Can't educate a lost puppy that the alleged KD footage has already been addressed.

When your owner spots you today, you should ask to be fixed so that your little self can properly employ the ignore button.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Collins2000 wrote: (Have you found any footage of George Foreman knocking down Jimmy Young yet?)

- Can't educate a lost puppy that the alleged KD footage has already been addressed by me repeatedly lying again.

When your owner spots you today, you should ask to be fixed so that your little self can properly employ the ignore button.

When I had you on ignore people kept quoting your ridiculous posts when baiting you.

I then realised I was wrong to deny myself the opportunity to read such hilarious crap first hand.

Remind me, numpty, how many times was it that Foreman had Jimmy Young on the deck?

Collins2000 wrote: Remind me, numpty, how many times was it that Foreman had Jimmy Young on the deck?

- Want your little puppy nose rubbed in it for the umpteeth time, eh collie?

Young appears to have touched the canvas with his gloves in the 7th in a similar fashion George did in the 12th. Neither listed as an official KD on boxrec though both have been widely discussed as KDs regarding the merits of the fight.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:
Young appears to have touched the canvas with his gloves in the 7th in a similar fashion George did in the 12th. Neither listed as an official KD on boxrec though both have been widely discussed as KDs regarding the merits of the fight.

No one has EVER suggested Young was down in this fight - Foreman being knocked down in the 12th is still listed at Boxrec: click the open book symbol.

As for Foreman being down - as you can see...

http://www.antekprizering.com/foremanyoung5372.html

... his glove appears to have touched the canvas in the same way the Hindenburg appears to have touched the ground.

wouter wrote: No one has EVER suggested Young was down in this fight - Foreman being knocked down in the 12th is still listed at Boxrec: click the open book symbol.

- You weren't party to the voluminous discussion I've had concerning the merits of this fight. It was hammered into me that Young was dropped and never contested.

Moreover, Boxrec add and deletes information at will. First it is, then it ain't, then it is, ain't, is............ Foreman KD had been taken off his record by the time of my previous post, and now it's back in.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:Young appears to have touched the canvas with his gloves in the 7th in a similar fashion George did in the 12th. Neither listed as an official KD on boxrec though both have been widely discussed as KDs regarding the merits of the fight.