BoxRec

Norton beat Ali 3 times...Norton was a victim of the judge$$$$$$$$

elmersalsa wrote:Norton beat Ali 3 times...Norton was a victim of the judge$$$$$$$$

The scoring was fine in the first two fights. I thought Norton won the 3rd but, as other knowledgable posters have mentioned (not you, of course, Elmo) he ought to have put in a bit more effort to make absolutely sure of it. He had a mere shell of Ali in front of him but still did a bit too much posing when he'd have been better off letting his hands go.

Actually it was a good trilogy and you ought to give credit to both men rather than babbling nonsense about judges being paid off by the fictional 'Ali industry'.

I watched the first two fights today, and i agree with Collins - the quality of the contests was brilliant, and it's a shame all the focus is on the scoring.
I made the second match a draw, being slightly generous to Ali with the closer rounds, but they were difficult to score.
And if it had gone the other way, would the course of history have been so much more different?
We have all heard about Ali's tremendous heart and courage ad nauseum, but watching that first fight i was wincing every time Ali took a clean shot (and there were lots of them) - 10 or so rounds against Ken Norton with a broken jaw? - fukc that.

Wondering why Ali was so pudgy for the first Norton fight, i just found this gem :

Ali said that in the heat of the fight he barely felt the injury. Indeed he claimed to have been troubled almost as much by his relative lack of fitness. He had missed out on fitness work after spraining an ankle while 'revolutionising' the game of golf by trying to hit the ball on the run.

what a wanker!

LOL! D

I just looked up these fights in the record book again. Nothing has essentially changed in that series since the judges cards were initially read. It remains Ali 2, Norton 1, very similar to last weeks readout, as well as that of the week before.

Apparently this story is still unfolding, and we have our crackerjack team of reporter's following it, so I'll be sure to put out a memo if anything changes in the coming months.

witherspoon wrote:Wondering why Ali was so pudgy for the first Norton fight

- A myth. Ali was 221 for the first and third Norton fight and was 220+ for most all of his comeback fights.

Ali felt the jaw break since he ran for 10 consecutive rounds doing virtually no fighting. Had to have been in at least credible shape to do that.

Still, Ali did look softer in their first fight. I know conditioning is what it is, & some fighters can appear a little pudgy whilst exhibiting great endurance (Juan Diaz, Joe Frazier), but Ali doesn't strike me as that type of fighter. Throw in the wide odds in his favour against a relatively little-known opponent (on the east coast of the US, at least) & Ali's well-known distain for training, & it seems plausible the tighter-looking Ali of the second fight put more hours in at the gym.

Ali lost to Spinks and Spinks does not rate terribly high with most people. A win over a declining Ali by Norton may not put him over fighters who beat more top contenders.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

witherspoon wrote:Wondering why Ali was so pudgy for the first Norton fight

- A myth. Ali was 221 for the first and third Norton fight and was 220+ for most all of his comeback fights.

Ali felt the jaw break since he ran for 10 consecutive rounds doing virtually no fighting. Had to have been in at least credible shape to do that.

.........and Ali was 212 for the rematch. He was in better shape.
he ran for 10 rounds doing no fighting? When did you last watch this fight?
Time after time he had no choice but to fight and was getting OUT-fighted.

witherspoon wrote:I watched the first two fights today, and i agree with Collins - the quality of the contests was brilliant, and it's a shame all the focus is on the scoring.
I made the second match a draw, being slightly generous to Ali with the closer rounds, but they were difficult to score.
And if it had gone the other way, would the course of history have been so much more different?
We have all heard about Ali's tremendous heart and courage ad nauseum, but watching that first fight i was wincing every time Ali took a clean shot (and there were lots of them) - 10 or so rounds against Ken Norton with a broken jaw? - fukc that.

Not only was Ali hurt in the first fight, he was losing steam. If the 1st Ali vs Norton fight was 15 rounds, Norton might have pulled off a TKO.

Fans need to see this full fight. Norton was ripping body shots, and badly tagging Ali with rights.

Yes, Ali was tough, but Norton got the better of the series not doubt. It was either fixed our lousy judging in the 3rd fight, and the 2nd fight could have gone either way.

I agree about the second bout, which I scored for Ali by just a single point. To be fair, I had the first fight very close as well, but Norton probably won that by a slightly clearer margin than Ali won their 1973 rematch. Still, you most often hear of the second fight as being breezed over with, "Ali won the rematch before moving on..." but he could very easily & legitimately lost that fight on the cards, too.

As it turns out, it was okay for Norton anyway, because he still jumped Ali in the queue & got his deserved title shot at Foreman...though he may have regretted that, in hindsight D

I can honestly not see how the first fight was close AT ALL. Being very generous to Ali, he won 4 rounds. Norton dominated that fight from the opening bell onward.

dempseyfire wrote:I can honestly not see how the first fight was close AT ALL. Being very generous to Ali, he won 4 rounds. Norton dominated that fight from the opening bell onward.

Agreed. GI, watch the fight. I watched it for the first time in 15+ years and I could not believe how easily Norton won, broken jaw or not. I freely admit that I just assumed it was a close fight because Ali is the greatest of all time etc. Norton would always have the better of Ali, in my opinion, 6-7 times out of 10.

it wouldnt really matter to me. i already had Ali the loser. Kenny destroyed Ali in that last fight, made him half a man. It was the best performance against Mooo-ham-ud since Jimmy Young defeated him 5 months earlier. Ali rebounded nicely with wins over Jean Pierre Coopman and my favorite, Richard Dunn, one of the greatest heavyweight brawls of the 70s.