BoxRec

1922
Mar 9 Packey O'Gatty New York, NY EX 3
Eddie Eagan Denver Co EX 3
Terry Kellar Washington, DC EX
Jul an unnamed opponent Portland, Me EX
Jul an unnamed opponent Bangor, Me EX
Jul an unnamed opponent Fort Fairfield, Me EX
Jul 18 Elzear Rioux Montreal, Que, Can EX 1
-Dempsey knocked Rioux out
Jul 18 Jack Renault Montreal, Que, Can EX 3
Jul 18 Paul Lahaye Montreal, Que, Can EX 3
-The previous 3 bouts were held the same date
Jul 19 Jack Renault Ottawa, Ont, Can EX 3
Jul 24 Jimmy Darcy Buffalo NY W 4
-Some sources report this bout as a Heavyweight
Championship of the World contest

The fight could have happened any time between those times. Maine, New York, are all close to Canada. Within driving distance easily.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:You have that article? Hell man post it in here.

- I tried to bring it up, but something wrong with the file and it froze my 'puter for 5 min.

I'll try again tomorrow, but it's a weird zip file and I'm not sure what copies on here, not being the 'puter whiz some of you are.

If anything you might just have to screen shot it and put it on an image upload site.

If you could e-mail it to me [email protected] I'll get it open. That would be a great read even if it were a phoney just the fact that it was written back then in a newspaper. I am going to see if there is an archive copy of the article in the Brooklyn Eagle from that time period. Google doesn't have anything when you do a search in the 1921 Brooklyn Eagle Almanac on "Jack Johnson Jack Dempsey".

It could have been a show for the gamblers put on by two actors. I was watching unforgivable blackness before and they had two actors stage a Johnson fight for the crowd. The peoples way of hypothetically picking a winner through their means of entertainment which was live stage just like the 60's had the computerized fight with Marciano and Ali. I don't know where I stand on whether it really did take place because I am still shocked by the story but I don't think it did. It is a very interesting subject though.

Broughton, you working on it yet?

HomicideHenry wrote:Broughton, you working on it yet?

- Drafting my son this weekend. The software is doubtless old and conflicting with updates.

Same thing happened when I got DSL, the new modem wouldn't work with my 5 yr old computer so I had to get a new one. Now my new one has hit the 5 yr mark.

Oddly enough, got some home movies archived on DVD, but can't play them on new computer. The old computer plays them, but it crashes after a few minutes. Model Ts were designed better than these computers.

Amen, I hear that shit.

Woo I am done for the day at the NYC library still have to search the mircofilm from Brookyn Daily Eagle 1921 May through August. I may have missed it though on the months I searched. The Carpentier match happened on July 2nd of that year in Jersey City not sure when this bout could have taken place. I am thinking after and I also think the article may be in the months I haven't scanned yet. I was going to check out a few Johnson books to see if it mentions this at all.

It's possible they could have fought an exhibition. Who knows the circumstances surrounding the reasons why the match may have taken place. I just want to scan and post that article sounds very intriguing. I'll try to make it back Sunday or Monday. Leaving to Texas on Wednesday by train so if I don't find anything by then it wont be another month before I can research again.

Anyone have anything let me know.

CLICK HERE for the link to the article shown above. You have to click the adobe icon to see the article from August 27th, 1922

Now this is what I like to see! Great work jm617!!!

Guys I am going to start a new thread for this subject.

HomicideHenry wrote:Broughton, you working on it yet?

- I was able to open the file this time, but it won't copy off.

Did a little checking again to make sure the updated records don't bust the bubble, and, again, both Jacks have large open slots in their records.

Prison release:

JACK JOHNSON FREE SEES FIGHT AT ONCE; Says He Is Good Enough for Two Years More at Top of Heavyweight Division. HE WEIGHS 220 POUNDS Asserts He is in Best Shape of His Life and That He Is the Man to Whip Dempsey.

July 10, 1921, Sunday

LEAVENWORTH, Kan., July 9.-- Jack Johnson, former heavyweight pugilistic champion, was released from Leavenworth Federal Prison here shortly before 10 o'clock this meaning after serving ten months of a year's sentence for violation of the Mann act.
==============================

Fight took place in Saskatoon, Canada, on or just before Dec 21, 1921.

Anyways, son ran off before I could bother him, so hopefully tomorrow. Like I stated, Johnson lobbied as hard as George Foreman did for Ali and kept up up all the way until near his death in 1946 on his way to a Louis fight,. About as deluded as Holmesy.

dempseyfire wrote:Dempsey was not in Canada at the date speculated. It's complete hogwash, just the idea of it even is so ridiculous it's not even worth arguing about.

Some people are daft enough to believe anything

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:... About as deluded as Holmesy...

But not quite as deluded as someone who believes in this 'secret' fight...

Would have been interesting in Dempsey and Johnson fought.

Johnson would have been a shell, but still. Would have been
fascinating.

I believe it to be plausible.

Its not out of the relm of possibility that these two didnt meet up somewhere along the lines, and did an exhibition bout for a bunch of high stakes gamblers. Stranger things have happened in boxing, and arranged bouts held in secret are nothing new and happened many a time.

HomicideHenry wrote:I believe it to be plausible.

Its not out of the relm of possibility that these two didnt meet up somewhere along the lines, and did an exhibition bout for a bunch of high stakes gamblers. Stranger things have happened in boxing, and arranged bouts held in secret are nothing new and happened many a time.

Don't be ridiculous.

OK, give me an example of something stranger than that which not only happened but was kept secret for 40 years. Oh, yeah, the moon landings. Silly me.

Hey, is that The Illuminati behind you?

They fought in a masonic lodge under ground for the Reptiles...
well i am sure I read that in a Icke book some where?

Or was it a book about the great Gypsie bare knucklers of the
1980s :P

HomicideHenry wrote:I believe it to be plausible.

Its not out of the relm of possibility that these two didnt meet up somewhere along the lines, and did an exhibition bout for a bunch of high stakes gamblers. Stranger things have happened in boxing, and arranged bouts held in secret are nothing new and happened many a time.

-SRLeonard trained for an entire year in secret for the Hagler bout.

Held a number of number of private fights against select sparring partners in that period. The fighters were told to really unload on him, and he sometimes had as many as 3-4 consecutively several rounds apiece.

I heard that Ali also had a closed door private session with that amateur who got to him in the amas, Green I think his name was. Often camps will close to the public to work in private, but we know stuff is going on. Sometimes it goes on between camps and fights.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:I believe it to be plausible.

Its not out of the relm of possibility that these two didnt meet up somewhere along the lines, and did an exhibition bout for a bunch of high stakes gamblers. Stranger things have happened in boxing, and arranged bouts held in secret are nothing new and happened many a time.

-SRLeonard trained for an entire year in secret for the Hagler bout.

Held a number of number of private fights against select sparring partners in that period. The fighters were told to really unload on him, and he sometimes had as many as 3-4 consecutively several rounds apiece.

I heard that Ali also had a closed door private session with that amateur who got to him in the amas, Green I think his name was. Often camps will close to the public to work in private, but we know stuff is going on. Sometimes it goes on between camps and fights.

Everyone KNEW Leonard was in training. It was behind doors but not a secret. They are called closed sparring sessions.

Ali may well have sparred Green. So what?

I guess such things doesnt matter. Greg Page dropped Tyson in sparring before Mike lost to Douglas. I havent seen a video of it anywhere. I guess if you cant see it, you just cant believe it.
But, I'm glad I live by that old Centurian's faith

HomicideHenry wrote:I guess such things doesnt matter. Greg Page dropped Tyson in sparring before Mike lost to Douglas. I havent seen a video of it anywhere. I guess if you cant see it, you just cant believe it.
But, I'm glad I live by that old Centurian's faith

What faith would that be?

You can believe it if the source is reputable. Until then it is just internet piss and wind. So far we have seen as much 'evidence' of a Jack Dempsy - Jack Johnson 'fight' as we saw from that eejit who 2 years ago in here claimed Marciano had a 'secret' bout in South America to go to 50-0. Did you happen to notice that fuckwit disappeared when asked for any proof at all?

You seem to believe anything and every thing Rufus and never ask for any kind of verification.

The rumor itself is a story worth talking about, it's fun hearing all your opinions on the subject. I was looking at the lineage of the heavyweight championship and their records and noticed Dempsey could have had two very big fights. The first being against Johnson which would have probably ended the way Marciano and Louis ended and the other being a Louis fight which Louis seemed at least on paper ready for in 1935. I am just shocked I have never heard this rumor before.

How the hell didn't one of these guys either confirm or deny the exhibition's validity. Dempsey said he boxed many exhibitions at that time all over and in the 1922 Times article Johnson never even hinted at vengence or Dempsey directly as he just mentioned many names. I wanted to see if anything was referred to the rumor in his autobiography titled My life and battles but had to leave the library before I could.

I'm also interested in the fact that David Icke (look him up) is now a multi-miilionaire after writing 16+ books claiming the world is run by a secret bloodline descended from shape-shifting alien lizards.

He holds seminars all over the world babbling his nonsense to packed houses.

All it proves is the old saying. There's one born every minute.

BroughtonRulesRefuge - You quoted the article mentioned that the bout took place on December 21st, 1921. Was the article from the Brooklyn Daily Eagle? If it was would you know what date that BDE article was published?

If you can send over the file i'll throw it up here.

HomicideHenry wrote: Greg Page dropped Tyson in sparring before Mike lost to Douglas. I havent seen a video of it anywhere.

- May still be on the tube. It's not much really.

Tyson is overweight, but of course so was Page, two fatboys. Tyson, just sorta standing there in a prozac haze and Page drops him, a nothing left hook as I recall, but hardly worth perfect recall.

Tyson gets up and the tape ends shortly afterwards as the session ends.

Still waiting on junior to get up.