BoxRec

Greatness is based on longetivity not being a flash in the pan.

banjo wrote:Greatness is based on longetivity not being a flash in the pan.

Tell dem, banjo!

DG. wrote:[

Kltischko ALL TIME GREAT Hws?

Watch Purity - Brewer and Sanders amd say thyat without smiling.


Mccall would be at WLAD..

Holyfield of then would have beaten WLAD

The Klitschko flourish because there is no one out there....

A lot of those names would beat Wlad...

Vitali is tougher but look how he fought against Sanders..

Klitschko/s are not that good...seriously...

The same could have been said about Marciano or Tyson when they ruled the division. The Klitschkos are the best HWs of the current era. They would give any of the best of the past a difficult fight. Very few heavyweights have had the combination of size, power and ability (and in Vitalys case a great chin) that the Klitschkos possess. It is hard to tell how the great fighters of the past, who would mostly be cruiserweights today, would cope with that, especially given the Klitschkos skill at dominating smaller men.

hitman09 wrote:

DG. wrote:[

Kltischko ALL TIME GREAT Hws?

Watch Purity - Brewer and Sanders amd say thyat without smiling.


Mccall would be at WLAD..

Holyfield of then would have beaten WLAD

The Klitschko flourish because there is no one out there....

A lot of those names would beat Wlad...

Vitali is tougher but look how he fought against Sanders..

Klitschko/s are not that good...seriously...

The same could have been said about Marciano or Tyson when they ruled the division. The Klitschkos are the best HWs of the current era. They would give any of the best of the past a difficult fight. Very few heavyweights have had the combination of size, power and ability (and in Vitalys case a great chin) that the Klitschkos possess. It is hard to tell how the great fighters of the past, who would mostly be cruiserweights today, would cope with that, especially given the Klitschkos skill at dominating smaller men.

Sorry, but that's nonesense.

Marciano and Tyson dominated their division, and made feats. Such as youngest ever Undisputed champion for starters.

Vitali is decent, and would hold his own against the best, but even then, i doubt he'd actually win. As for Wlad, i'm not even going to bother commenting on that, i mean Purrity? Sanders? Brewer !? I mean come on mate.

Vitali is half decent, but wlad? Give me a break son.

The 50's may have been bad, but they were leagues above today's HW division mate,

hitman09 wrote:

DG. wrote:[

Kltischko ALL TIME GREAT Hws?

Watch Purity - Brewer and Sanders amd say thyat without smiling.


Mccall would be at WLAD..

Holyfield of then would have beaten WLAD

The Klitschko flourish because there is no one out there....

A lot of those names would beat Wlad...

Vitali is tougher but look how he fought against Sanders..

Klitschko/s are not that good...seriously...

The same could have been said about Marciano or Tyson when they ruled the division. The Klitschkos are the best HWs of the current era. They would give any of the best of the past a difficult fight. Very few heavyweights have had the combination of size, power and ability (and in Vitalys case a great chin) that the Klitschkos possess. It is hard to tell how the great fighters of the past, who would mostly be cruiserweights today, would cope with that, especially given the Klitschkos skill at dominating smaller men.

Ali
Holmes
Foreman
Tyson
Lewis
Holyfield
BOWE

In their prime would tear both the Klitschko's apart...

Do you think any of the above would lose to the journeyman version of Ross Purity? To Sanders? To Brewster?

I think not..Vitali is tougher but he would be torn apart by the above in their prime..

A PAST HIS BEST AND OUT OF SHAPE LENNOX EXTENDED AND CUT VITALI TO SHREDS..

If he beats the Klitschko's he will undoubtedly be the #1 HW in the world. As far as being the next Lennox Lewis, no. Lewis fought the likes of Mercer, Briggs, Tyson, Holyfield, Morrison, Bruno, the absoloute best of the 1990's (save Bowe). Haye would have to not only beat the Klitschko's but unify all the titles and defeat every man with even a remote claim to the title, or former HW champions as well. I just hope he'd have the longetivity to do so, if he can, and its a HUGE if, beat the Klitschko's.

observer1 wrote:

hitman09 wrote:

DG. wrote:[

Kltischko ALL TIME GREAT Hws?

Watch Purity - Brewer and Sanders amd say thyat without smiling.


Mccall would be at WLAD..

Holyfield of then would have beaten WLAD

The Klitschko flourish because there is no one out there....

A lot of those names would beat Wlad...

Vitali is tougher but look how he fought against Sanders..

Klitschko/s are not that good...seriously...

The same could have been said about Marciano or Tyson when they ruled the division. The Klitschkos are the best HWs of the current era. They would give any of the best of the past a difficult fight. Very few heavyweights have had the combination of size, power and ability (and in Vitalys case a great chin) that the Klitschkos possess. It is hard to tell how the great fighters of the past, who would mostly be cruiserweights today, would cope with that, especially given the Klitschkos skill at dominating smaller men.

Sorry, but that's nonesense.

Marciano and Tyson dominated their division, and made feats. Such as youngest ever Undisputed champion for starters.

Vitali is decent, and would hold his own against the best, but even then, i doubt he'd actually win. As for Wlad, i'm not even going to bother commenting on that, i mean Purrity? Sanders? Brewer !? I mean come on mate.

Vitali is half decent, but wlad? Give me a break son.

The 50's may have been bad, but they were leagues above today's HW division mate,

The Klitschkos dominate their division, and make feats. Such as only brothers to hold HW titles simultaneously. As for Vitaly losing to the best, what is that based on? He has never looked like being stopped, except on cuts, and has never been behind on judges cards in a fight. "Come on mate" and "give me a break son" does not constitute an argument. Vitaly is considerably better than "half decent". The 50s were at least as bad as nowadays, probably worse, but that doesn't make Marciano any less great. He is rightly considered an all time great HW. As for the 80s, they were far, far worse.

HomicideHenry wrote:If he beats the Klitschko's he will undoubtedly be the #1 HW in the world. As far as being the next Lennox Lewis, no. Lewis fought the likes of Mercer, Briggs, Tyson, Holyfield, Morrison, Bruno, the absoloute best of the 1990's (save Bowe). Haye would have to not only beat the Klitschko's but unify all the titles and defeat every man with even a remote claim to the title, or former HW champions as well. I just hope he'd have the longetivity to do so, if he can, and its a HUGE if, beat the Klitschko's.

The only men with any claim to the title are the Klitschkos and Ruslan Chagaev.

Who has either of them beaten?

VitalI? His best win is...Samuel Peters?

Wlad? Brester?

They are beating mediocre fighters....


Haye can knock Wlad out and fast....

Will he?....... YES!

I mean, I cannot believe this is a debate. Lennox was a top 5 heavyweight for the best part of 12 years. He finished his career at the age of 37 by taking on the baddest, most dangerous guy on the block, and emerged victorious.

I just cannot see Haye ever doing what Lennox did at heavyweight - I don't think he really has time, Lennox had already achieved so much by the time he was Haye's age, that it will be hard for Haye to catch up.

DG. wrote:

yiddo14 wrote:Does he become Britains best modern day fighter since Lewis?

Does he surpass Lennox if he manages to beat both the Klits?

I would rank him above both Calzaghe and Hatton if he manages to pull it off, but below Lewis.
Unified Cruiserweight then stepped up and unififed Heavyweight, all in just over 25 fights!

Where would you chaps rank him all time(British wise)if he were to slay the Klit bros then call it a day?

He won't beat Lennox based on that.

The Klitschko's are not as good as the version of Holyfield Lennox beat or considered as dangerous as the version of Ruddock Lennox beat...

Coupled with Lennox's amateur stats and his dominance during his reign Haye has a long way to go!

He needs longevity then he can be judged.

He beats Hatton already in my book based on his attitude and who he fights.. Calzaghe? He has a way to go..

hatton come of it,he faced the man at 10st tzyu who in his previous fight anhilated sharmbay who he struggled with a few years prior to prove he was on his game,he then went stateside to fight out his comfort zone,& then take on the best fighter in world boxing mate behave yourself!!calzaghe wouldnt go near jones,toney,or liles!!it would of been suicide..oh he waited till jones was 39 ko'd twice cold in his last 5 & defeated a shot welter,i felt b-hop a career middle who beat a weight drained tarver secured victory despite jc roaring back,you cant take a back seat against jc.
if haye beats both klitschko's he'll surpass lennox all day long but i think its near impossible for him to defeat vitali,even at vitali's age.

hurlock wrote:

DG. wrote:

yiddo14 wrote:Does he become Britains best modern day fighter since Lewis?

Does he surpass Lennox if he manages to beat both the Klits?

I would rank him above both Calzaghe and Hatton if he manages to pull it off, but below Lewis.
Unified Cruiserweight then stepped up and unififed Heavyweight, all in just over 25 fights!

Where would you chaps rank him all time(British wise)if he were to slay the Klit bros then call it a day?

He won't beat Lennox based on that.

The Klitschko's are not as good as the version of Holyfield Lennox beat or considered as dangerous as the version of Ruddock Lennox beat...

Coupled with Lennox's amateur stats and his dominance during his reign Haye has a long way to go!

He needs longevity then he can be judged.

He beats Hatton already in my book based on his attitude and who he fights.. Calzaghe? He has a way to go..

hatton come of it,he faced the man at 10st tzyu who in his previous fight anhilated sharmbay who he struggled with a few years prior to prove he was on his game,he then went stateside to fight out his comfort zone,& then take on the best fighter in world boxing mate behave yourself!!calzaghe wouldnt go near jones,toney,or liles!!it would of been suicide..oh he waited till jones was 39 ko'd twice cold in his last 5 & defeated a shot welter,i felt b-hop a career middle who beat a weight drained tarver secured victory despite jc roaring back,you cant take a back seat against jc.
if haye beats both klitschko's he'll surpass lennox all day long but i think its near impossible for him to defeat vitali,even at vitali's age.

HATTON AND WARREN WAITED UNTIL KT WAS RIDDLED WITH INJURIES AND BROUGHT HIM OVER FOR A BIG PAYDAY AND FOULED HIM TO SHIT WITH DAVE 'SEE NO EVIL SPEAK NO EVIL HEAR NO EVIL IF ITS A FIGHTER I LIKE' PARRIS IN CHARGE...
KT WAS AT THE END OF HIS CAREER...PROOF NEEDED? HE NEVER OUGHT AGAIN'...


He fought on after Philips knocked him out but at his age after Hattoin he thought 'why bother?'

You think beating both KLITS makes Haye better than Lennox? Lennox beat Vitali and Wlad has been knocked out by journeymen....

So, You will rate Haye as one of the best heavyweights of all time???? Above Lennox????

Purleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaassssseeeee!

Put the pipe down!

Lennox is arguably top 5 all time heavyweight..without a doubt top 10..

Would Haye be? Your argument is shot down!

Also, if Sanders - Brewster or Purrity beat Vitali then that would make them better than Lennox?

If Gomez beat both Kiltschkos would that make him better than Lennox?

Gomez was the best Cruiser at the time then moved up....

tzyu performance b4 his hatton fight suggest's he was looking good,i bet you backed him.

as 4 haye he's taking on the top heavies in the world. lewis hid in europe whilst his counter parts where in there primes having wars.
lewis top 5 i dont think so you the one sucking on a glass dick

hurlock wrote:tzyu performance b4 his hatton fight suggest's he was looking good,i bet you backed him.

as 4 haye he's taking on the top heavies in the world. lewis hid in europe whilst his counter parts where in there primes having wars.
lewis top 5 i dont think so you the one sucking on a glass dick

Suggests?...That's all - Hatton was level pegging in the fight until the stoppage and YES I thought KT was old and iacctive and would beat Hatton because Hatton is not that good.


Put together your top 10 heavies if all time and see where Lennox fits!

hurlock wrote:tzyu performance b4 his hatton fight suggest's he was looking good,i bet you backed him.

as 4 haye he's taking on the top heavies in the world. lewis hid in europe whilst his counter parts where in there primes having wars.
lewis top 5 i dont think so you the one sucking on a glass dick

Lewis hid in Europe?

Oh yes, winning the British Commonwealth and European Title..

Remember he also hid here and beat RUDDOCK...

You ARE on crack!

hitman09 wrote:[
The Klitschkos dominate their division, and make feats. Such as only brothers to hold HW titles simultaneously. As for Vitaly losing to the best, what is that based on? He has never looked like being stopped, except on cuts, and has never been behind on judges cards in a fight. "Come on mate" and "give me a break son" does not constitute an argument. Vitaly is considerably better than "half decent". The 50s were at least as bad as nowadays, probably worse, but that doesn't make Marciano any less great. He is rightly considered an all time great HW. As for the 80s, they were far, far worse.

Er sorry pal, but the 80's were much better than the 50's. Much much better.

You had Larry Holmes dominating the earlier part.
Michael Spinks.
Tony Tubbs.
Tony Tucker.
Mike Tyson.
Holyfield in the latter years.
Pinklon Thomas, who was ducked probably more than anyone in his prime
Bruno.
Ruddock
Page
Coatzee
Tate
Tim Witherspoon,
'Bone-Crusher' Smith
Dokes etc.

Majority of these guys would dominate the 50's guys, and as for todays guys, lol. The only trouble the majority these guys will have will probably be against Vitali, and that is the only one.

Mate you need to understand, nobody says Vitali is a bad boxer, he is good, but don't let the pathetic and uselessness of today HW division fog your judgement. Because, it IS, a complete and utter farce.

observer1 wrote:

hitman09 wrote:[
The Klitschkos dominate their division, and make feats. Such as only brothers to hold HW titles simultaneously. As for Vitaly losing to the best, what is that based on? He has never looked like being stopped, except on cuts, and has never been behind on judges cards in a fight. "Come on mate" and "give me a break son" does not constitute an argument. Vitaly is considerably better than "half decent". The 50s were at least as bad as nowadays, probably worse, but that doesn't make Marciano any less great. He is rightly considered an all time great HW. As for the 80s, they were far, far worse.

Er sorry pal, but the 80's were much better than the 50's. Much much better.

You had Larry Holmes dominating the earlier part.
Michael Spinks.
Tony Tubbs.
Tony Tucker.
Mike Tyson.
Holyfield in the latter years.
Pinklon Thomas, who was ducked probably more than anyone in his prime
Bruno.
Ruddock
Page
Coatzee
Tate
Tim Witherspoon,
'Bone-Crusher' Smith
Dokes etc.

Majority of these guys would dominate the 50's guys, and as for todays guys, lol. The only trouble the majority these guys will have will probably be against Vitali, and that is the only one.

Mate you need to understand, nobody says Vitali is a bad boxer, he is good, but don't let the pathetic and uselessness of today HW division fog your judgement. Because, it IS, a complete and utter farce.

DG. wrote:



Lennox is arguably top 5 all time heavyweight..without a doubt top 10..

Which of the following do you rate Lewis higher than DG:
Ali
Louis
Marciano
Johnson
Dempsey
Frazier
Foreman
Charles
Patterson
Tyson
Holyfield
Walcott
Holmes
Liston
Tunney
Baer
Norton
Schmeling
Moore
Langford
McVey
Sullivan
Jeffries
Braddock
Wills
?
That is 25 I have listed, all of whom were better than Lewis, and I'm sure there are more whos names I cannot remember at the moment. How on earth can you have him top 10?

observer1 wrote:

hitman09 wrote:[
The Klitschkos dominate their division, and make feats. Such as only brothers to hold HW titles simultaneously. As for Vitaly losing to the best, what is that based on? He has never looked like being stopped, except on cuts, and has never been behind on judges cards in a fight. "Come on mate" and "give me a break son" does not constitute an argument. Vitaly is considerably better than "half decent". The 50s were at least as bad as nowadays, probably worse, but that doesn't make Marciano any less great. He is rightly considered an all time great HW. As for the 80s, they were far, far worse.

Er sorry pal, but the 80's were much better than the 50's. Much much better.

You had Larry Holmes dominating the earlier part.
Michael Spinks.
Tony Tubbs.
Tony Tucker.
Mike Tyson.
Holyfield in the latter years.
Pinklon Thomas, who was ducked probably more than anyone in his prime
Bruno.
Ruddock
Page
Coatzee
Tate
Tim Witherspoon,
'Bone-Crusher' Smith
Dokes etc.

Majority of these guys would dominate the 50's guys, and as for todays guys, lol. The only trouble the majority these guys will have will probably be against Vitali, and that is the only one.

Mate you need to understand, nobody says Vitali is a bad boxer, he is good, but don't let the pathetic and uselessness of today HW division fog your judgement. Because, it IS, a complete and utter farce.

I was referring to after Holmes and before Holyfield - most of those guys would have serious problems with Wlad and Vitaly's reach and power, even Tyson. Smaller fighters will always have to overcome that problem against them.
I am well aware of how pathetic the division is at the moment (how could it not be clear, when Rahman and Holyfield are getting title shots), but most of those fighters of the 80s would never have faced fighters as big, fit and powerful as the Klitschkos. They are light years ahead of the competition at the moment, and you can't just say "the division is crap at the moment so they'd have no chance in the past", when Vitaly has no trouble at all dispatching the best at the moment.

Which of the following do you rate Lewis higher than DG:

Ali - L
Louis W
Marciano W
Johnson L
Dempsey W
Frazier W
Foreman W
Charles W
Patterson W
Tyson L
Holyfield L
Walcott W
Holmes L
Liston W
Tunney W
Baer W
Norton W
Schmeling W
Moore W
Langford W
McVey WHO?? W
Sullivan W
Jeffries W
Braddock W
Wills Who? W


And how many of them woud,have beaten Lewis?

How many?????

I will list my version of who wins... see above!

W=Win for Lennox
L=Loss for Lennox
D=Draw...


Remember - Prime for Prime.. Achievements and modern day rules - none of this standing over the guy when you knock him down...


Lennox and his 17st 10lbs 6ft 6in athletic and powerful tears a lot of them up due to just being bigger - faster - stronger and a heavier hitter than most!

Answer this, WHERE would you put Haye?


I am a Haye Fan, but lets not get carried away..

He has to rule for years to equal Lennox and I think he would admit it.... In fact I will email him!

DG. wrote:Which of the following do you rate Lewis higher than DG:

Ali - L
Louis W
Marciano W
Johnson L
Dempsey W
Frazier W
Foreman W
Charles W
Patterson W
Tyson L
Holyfield L
Walcott W
Holmes L
Liston W
Tunney W
Baer W
Norton W
Schmeling W
Moore W
Langford W
McVey WHO?? W
Sullivan W
Jeffries W
Braddock W
Wills Who? W


And how many of them woud,have beaten Lewis?

How many?????

I will list my version of who wins... see above!

W=Win for Lennox
L=Loss for Lennox
D=Draw...


Remember - Prime for Prime.. Achievements and modern day rules - none of this standing over the guy when you knock him down...


Lennox and his 17st 10lbs 6ft 6in athletic and powerful tears a lot of them up due to just being bigger - faster - stronger and a heavier hitter than most!

Answer this, WHERE would you put Haye?


I am a Haye Fan, but lets not get carried away..

He has to rule for years to equal Lennox and I think he would admit it.... In fact I will email him!

Haye obviously gets nowhere. I never suggested that. But if you believe that LENNOX LEWIS would beat prime versions of Louis, Frazier, Foreman, Langford, Tunney and Marciano, then you are a complete invalid.
And anybody who has never heard of Harry Wills and Sam McVey has no business making statement about who is an all time great.

hitman09 wrote:

observer1 wrote:

hitman09 wrote:[
The Klitschkos dominate their division, and make feats. Such as only brothers to hold HW titles simultaneously. As for Vitaly losing to the best, what is that based on? He has never looked like being stopped, except on cuts, and has never been behind on judges cards in a fight. "Come on mate" and "give me a break son" does not constitute an argument. Vitaly is considerably better than "half decent". The 50s were at least as bad as nowadays, probably worse, but that doesn't make Marciano any less great. He is rightly considered an all time great HW. As for the 80s, they were far, far worse.

Er sorry pal, but the 80's were much better than the 50's. Much much better.

You had Larry Holmes dominating the earlier part.
Michael Spinks.
Tony Tubbs.
Tony Tucker.
Mike Tyson.
Holyfield in the latter years.
Pinklon Thomas, who was ducked probably more than anyone in his prime
Bruno.
Ruddock
Page
Coatzee
Tate
Tim Witherspoon,
'Bone-Crusher' Smith
Dokes etc.

Majority of these guys would dominate the 50's guys, and as for todays guys, lol. The only trouble the majority these guys will have will probably be against Vitali, and that is the only one.

Mate you need to understand, nobody says Vitali is a bad boxer, he is good, but don't let the pathetic and uselessness of today HW division fog your judgement. Because, it IS, a complete and utter farce.

I was referring to after Holmes and before Holyfield - most of those guys would have serious problems with Wlad and Vitaly's reach and power, even Tyson. Smaller fighters will always have to overcome that problem against them.
I am well aware of how pathetic the division is at the moment (how could it not be clear, when Rahman and Holyfield are getting title shots), but most of those fighters of the 80s would never have faced fighters as big, fit and powerful as the Klitschkos. They are light years ahead of the competition at the moment, and you can't just say "the division is crap at the moment so they'd have no chance in the past", when Vitaly has no trouble at all dispatching the best at the moment.

No dude. Please don't even bring Wlad into this topic. Because he would NOT the overwhelming majority of the small list i made. The very fact he made such a pathetic contract for Haye to sign says it all for me. If he is this worred about David Haye, he would probably have retired if he had to face any of those guys.

Vitali is another story. But as far as i'm concerned, if he was beaten up by an Old and passed it Lewis. His face was not the result of a headbut, or elbow, but Lewis's boxing.

He may have beaten up overweight guys with boxing gloves on, by simply using a jab and a right hand for 12 rounds, but you're just being childish if you think he can get away with that with most of the Boxers in the 80's or 50's.

Oh, and for the record with Tyson, if Old man Lewis can beat Vitali by TKO in 7 rounds, in my opinion, Tyson will beat him way before that.

This is of course, all just my opinion, but fact is, this sentiment is shared by the majority of anyone who knows a little bit about these "Heavyweights". So.. Take a hint.

observer1 wrote:
This is of course, all just my opinion, but fact is, this sentiment is shared by the majority of anyone who knows a little bit about these "Heavyweights". So.. Take a hint.

Shared by those who only know "a little". Those who know a lot may disagree. 8)

Ali, Holmes...only two fighters I would back with money in a prime for prime fight against Lennox Lewis.
You won't get me backing any other with my "hard earned" in a prime for prime match up with Lennox.

I simply cannot see the apparent overwhelming factors you romantics see(Ie Tyson and Holyfield lovers!) Both of these guys got outboxed in their prime! No one outboxed Lewis, never happened.

yiddo14 wrote:Ali, Holmes...only two fighters I would back with money in a prime for prime fight against Lennox Lewis.
You won't get me backing any other with my "hard earned" in a prime for prime match up with Lennox.

I simply cannot see the apparent overwhelming factors you romantics see(Ie Tyson and Holyfield lovers!) Both of these guys got outboxed in their prime! No one outboxed Lewis, never happened.

Wasn't Vitaly winning on all 3 cards before it got stopped?