BoxRec

chesh wrote:

gobbles wrote:

chesh wrote:I think the general consensus isn't that Khan is avoiding "someone"; more that he is avoiding a significant number of fighters in the weight division he has long campaigned in and where he wanted to be champ. It also makes a re-match with MAB improbable, if not impossible and, IMO, reinforces the case for their fight to be ruled a no-contest.

This is pathetic. Khan is 22 and is boxing for a WBA title, stepping up a division to do it. And people say he is avoiding people.

Personally, I think he has always ducked Wladimir.

What's truly pathetic is your attempt to be Khan's chief apologist on these boards; you are defending the indefensible and your act is wearing thin. Let's have a straight answer from you. Has he or has he not stated on many occasions that he wants to win a world title or titles at 135? And why is he moving to 140 without first achieving that goal?

So who is there to fight, big shot?

Marquez isn't interested, Valero would never be allowed to box in Britain, Campbell has gone, he's not in the running for the IBF title. Who's to say if he wins this, he doesn't move back down?

How many fighters would be trying to win their first world title and they get slagged off for ducking people?

Haye has show how hard it is to make fights, by having to agree to no money and ridiculous options to get Klitschko. The difference is, as a heavyweight, Haye's only other option is Valuev if he want to be heavyweight champion. Most other boxers get to pick and choose their route these days.

Why is this OK for the Mayweathers, Bertos Williamses, Margaritos and all the rest, but this isn't OK for Khan? When Cotto first won a world title, he beat Kelson Pinto - why didn't he get slagged for that?

You have such double-standards it is you who are truly pathetic

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

sg1985 wrote:i cant believe khan is being criticised for avoiding someone he hasn't even avoided yet. this khan hatred is now officially laughable.

I doubt Khan is avoiding anyone. He's in the hands of a very experienced management team. When people say Khan they really mean 'Team Khan'.

yes spot on .even when poor olly Harrison got sacked by "team khan" was a joke. could not even tell him to his face but write a letter slip under his gym door. what a joke.
i reakon they are behind this 100% .when kahn does become a world champ i can see him ditching warren and let his family take over his promo side of things .it will take the turn for the worse .If khan chooses that route.

search wrote:Opps got that wrong I thought valero called out Khan on youtube but mistakes Khans name for pacs name for some strange reason!

It was Katsidis who called out Khan, but then said later that he wanted a rematch with Casamayor

dbf wrote:

hitman09 wrote:

gobbles wrote:

You don't know that. As I said, he's 22. What if by the end of next year he had beaten Campbell and Bradley. The reality is if he had faced Bradley or Urango, people would say the same thing. And that is all the world champions.

The ONLY Light Welterweight World Champion is Ricky Hatton.

Yeah hes never been beaten at 140, hes the Ring Champ, hes beaten all comers. I agree, living off the Tszyu win does constitute him being the ONLY LWW champ.

He is the only champ because he possesses the Lineal World Title, no other title should be recognised. It is irrelevant who he choses to defend the title against, he has not lost it in the ring, and so he remains the world champion at LWW until he either loses a fight at LWW, voluntarily relinquishes the title, or retires.

gonna sound thick as shit here but........ lineal world title ?

Finch wrote:gonna sound thick as shit here but........ lineal world title ?

As in he beat the last world champion, Tszyu, and didn't lose that title.

beat the man who beat the man who beat the man, and so on. Although with WBA you can now be an Ordinary World Champ, Super World Champ, Unified World Champ or Undisputed World Champ, take your pick

failedairman wrote:beat the man who beat the man who beat the man, and so on. Although with WBA you can now be an Ordinary World Champ, Super World Champ, Unified World Champ or Undisputed World Champ, take your pick

Unified, Undisputed and Super champion are the same thing I think. They do have interim "world titles" too though.

Asterix wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:

boxerbob wrote:his number 1 challenger is victor ortiz

how long will warren make khan avoid this guy???

Khan KO'd Ortiz in 2 as an amateur

I heard that it wasn't a KO. Khan was so far ahead on points that it was stopped.

It wasn't a KO. Khan got ahead by 15 points so the fight was stopped. However the pros are a very different game, and I would be shocked if Khan beat Ortiz again.

Khan and Ortiz were kids when they met in the ams, Ortiz is a beast at the moment, the fight in the past would have no bearing if they meet in the future.

cant see Khan winning this, at all! He has spent to long beating blow up fighters and has little experience of getting hit by LW let alone LWW. Its only 5 pound weight difference but come fight night could be much more. Kotelnik has looked bit ropey in past but the coverage from this could lead to good things for him, if Khan gets through this he will need FW to do some remarkable fight finding to avoid doing a Gavin Rees

gobbles wrote:

chesh wrote:

gobbles wrote:This is pathetic. Khan is 22 and is boxing for a WBA title, stepping up a division to do it. And people say he is avoiding people.

Personally, I think he has always ducked Wladimir.

What's truly pathetic is your attempt to be Khan's chief apologist on these boards; you are defending the indefensible and your act is wearing thin. Let's have a straight answer from you. Has he or has he not stated on many occasions that he wants to win a world title or titles at 135? And why is he moving to 140 without first achieving that goal?

So who is there to fight, big shot?

Marquez isn't interested, Valero would never be allowed to box in Britain, Campbell has gone, he's not in the running for the IBF title. Who's to say if he wins this, he doesn't move back down?

How many fighters would be trying to win their first world title and they get slagged off for ducking people?

Haye has show how hard it is to make fights, by having to agree to no money and ridiculous options to get Klitschko. The difference is, as a heavyweight, Haye's only other option is Valuev if he want to be heavyweight champion. Most other boxers get to pick and choose their route these days.

Why is this OK for the Mayweathers, Bertos Williamses, Margaritos and all the rest, but this isn't OK for Khan? When Cotto first won a world title, he beat Kelson Pinto - why didn't he get slagged for that?

You have such double-standards it is you who are truly pathetic

Unsurprisingly, you do not directly address the question as to why Khan is leaving the division without fighting for a title. The division he claimed he could rule. Now to each of your points (you in italics; yours truly in bold):

So who is there to fight, big shot? Marquez isn't interested, Valero would never be allowed to box in Britain, Campbell has gone, he's not in the running for the IBF title. Who's to say if he wins this, he doesn't move back down?

True, Marquez isn't interested as he will soon be moving to 140. This will leave the WBO 135 title vacant. Khan has the WBO no. 1 ranking, followed by Katsidis at 2. How about Khan-Katsidis for starters? Or he could fight a certain Breidis Prescott, mysteriously ranked at no. 4. Or how about Guzman, who's ranked at 5? Khan against any one of these would be a good fight for the soon-to-be-vacant WBO title. As for Valero, we know it would never happen, but Khan could fight Valero in Texas (where Valero is licensed). Most challengers travel to fight for titles. Khan trains in the States, so why not fight for a title there? It seems strange that Khan is now not in the running for the IBF title, when he would have been fighting for that very title, had Campbell not lost it on the scales. Finally, the WBA: Khan is ranked no. 3 at LIGHTWEIGHT and has no ranking at 140, yet is fighting for this organisation's light-welterweight title. Their so-called "super" champ at 135 is JMM, so obviously that won't happen, but their "ordinary" champion is Paulus Moses (24-0, 17 KOs). Why not fight Moses? Could it be that he's more of a KO threat than Kotelnik who has only 2 stoppage wins in the last 6 years and 15 fights? Ruling out the WBC and IBF, Khan could potentially fight for the WBA or WBO title against Katsidis, Prescott, Guzman or Moses.


How many fighters would be trying to win their first world title and they get slagged off for ducking people?

He isn't being criticised for fighting for a world title per se; rather, his motives for leaving a weight division with his ambitions unfulfilled are being called into question - particularly in light of his recently attaining number 1 and number 3 contender status with the WBO and WBA respectively.


Haye has show how hard it is to make fights, by having to agree to no money and ridiculous options to get Klitschko. The difference is, as a heavyweight, Haye's only other option is Valuev if he want to be heavyweight champion. Most other boxers get to pick and choose their route these days.

Exactly. And Khan has plenty of options at lightweight to pick and choose from (see list of possible title fights above).


Why is this OK for the Mayweathers, Bertos Williamses, Margaritos and all the rest, but this isn't OK for Khan? When Cotto first won a world title, he beat Kelson Pinto - why didn't he get slagged for that?

Don't get your point here. Mayweather has fought in 5 weight divisions and won titles in all 5. He might not have fought the widely-regarded best in each division, but he did not flee from any weight class without fighting for and winning a title. Berto fought for and won a vacant title in his division. Williams has done that in two divisions and is now campaigning in a third. Margarito was the one avoided, rather than the one jumping weight class to duck fighters. He still managed to fight Cotto, Mosley, Clottey, Cintron, Williams, Martinez et al. Cotto didn't leave a weight division to fight Pinto. Both were light-welters at the time and Pinto was undefeated with about a 90% KO record.


You have such double-standards it is you who are truly pathetic

I have only one standard and that is the old adage: to be the best, you have to beat the best, to which could be added "and not seek the path of least resistance". And I would apply that standard to any boxer, not just Amir Khan.

BABY BLUE wrote:

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

sg1985 wrote:i cant believe khan is being criticised for avoiding someone he hasn't even avoided yet. this khan hatred is now officially laughable.

I doubt Khan is avoiding anyone. He's in the hands of a very experienced management team. When people say Khan they really mean 'Team Khan'.

yes spot on .even when poor olly Harrison got sacked by "team khan" was a joke. could not even tell him to his face but write a letter slip under his gym door. what a joke.
i reakon they are behind this 100% .when kahn does become a world champ i can see him ditching warren and let his family take over his promo side of things .it will take the turn for the worse .If khan chooses that route.

Why do people bring this up? It's got nothing to do with anything. Khan said himself he is sad Oliver was sacked. Fact is though, there were two sides...
There were obvious breakdown in communiations, and Olvier did not help by not responding to appointments made by them, so it was only a matter of time.

Dude, it's not the first time someone has changed coaches.

chesh wrote:
I have only one standard and that is the old adage: to be the best, you have to beat the best, to which could be added "and not seek the path of least resistance". And I would apply that standard to any boxer, not just Amir Khan.

I suppose it depends what Khan's goals are in boxing. If he truly wants to call himself the best in the division he should be aiming at the very best in the lightweight/light-welterweight divisions. But if his only goal is to make as much money as possible and then get out with his faculties intact I can't begrudge him avoiding the best guys as boxing is a tough game. I have to admit though it does get me when casual fans rave about Khan despite him not having beaten a genuine world-class lightweight to date.

chesh wrote:

gobbles wrote: So who is there to fight, big shot?

Marquez isn't interested, Valero would never be allowed to box in Britain, Campbell has gone, he's not in the running for the IBF title. Who's to say if he wins this, he doesn't move back down?

How many fighters would be trying to win their first world title and they get slagged off for ducking people?

Haye has show how hard it is to make fights, by having to agree to no money and ridiculous options to get Klitschko. The difference is, as a heavyweight, Haye's only other option is Valuev if he want to be heavyweight champion. Most other boxers get to pick and choose their route these days.

Why is this OK for the Mayweathers, Bertos Williamses, Margaritos and all the rest, but this isn't OK for Khan? When Cotto first won a world title, he beat Kelson Pinto - why didn't he get slagged for that?

You have such double-standards it is you who are truly pathetic

Unsurprisingly, you do not directly address the question as to why Khan is leaving the division without fighting for a title. The division he claimed he could rule. Now to each of your points (you in italics; yours truly in bold):

So who is there to fight, big shot? Marquez isn't interested, Valero would never be allowed to box in Britain, Campbell has gone, he's not in the running for the IBF title. Who's to say if he wins this, he doesn't move back down?

True, Marquez isn't interested as he will soon be moving to 140. This will leave the WBO 135 title vacant. Khan has the WBO no. 1 ranking, followed by Katsidis at 2. How about Khan-Katsidis for starters? Or he could fight a certain Breidis Prescott, mysteriously ranked at no. 4. Or how about Guzman, who's ranked at 5? Khan against any one of these would be a good fight for the soon-to-be-vacant WBO title. As for Valero, we know it would never happen, but Khan could fight Valero in Texas (where Valero is licensed). Most challengers travel to fight for titles. Khan trains in the States, so why not fight for a title there? It seems strange that Khan is now not in the running for the IBF title, when he would have been fighting for that very title, had Campbell not lost it on the scales. Finally, the WBA: Khan is ranked no. 3 at LIGHTWEIGHT and has no ranking at 140, yet is fighting for this organisation's light-welterweight title. Their so-called "super" champ at 135 is JMM, so obviously that won't happen, but their "ordinary" champion is Paulus Moses (24-0, 17 KOs). Why not fight Moses? Could it be that he's more of a KO threat than Kotelnik who has only 2 stoppage wins in the last 6 years and 15 fights? Ruling out the WBC and IBF, Khan could potentially fight for the WBA or WBO title against Katsidis, Prescott, Guzman or Moses.


How many fighters would be trying to win their first world title and they get slagged off for ducking people?

He isn't being criticised for fighting for a world title per se; rather, his motives for leaving a weight division with his ambitions unfulfilled are being called into question - particularly in light of his recently attaining number 1 and number 3 contender status with the WBO and WBA respectively.


Haye has show how hard it is to make fights, by having to agree to no money and ridiculous options to get Klitschko. The difference is, as a heavyweight, Haye's only other option is Valuev if he want to be heavyweight champion. Most other boxers get to pick and choose their route these days.

Exactly. And Khan has plenty of options at lightweight to pick and choose from (see list of possible title fights above).


Why is this OK for the Mayweathers, Bertos Williamses, Margaritos and all the rest, but this isn't OK for Khan? When Cotto first won a world title, he beat Kelson Pinto - why didn't he get slagged for that?

Don't get your point here. Mayweather has fought in 5 weight divisions and won titles in all 5. He might not have fought the widely-regarded best in each division, but he did not flee from any weight class without fighting for and winning a title. Berto fought for and won a vacant title in his division. Williams has done that in two divisions and is now campaigning in a third. Margarito was the one avoided, rather than the one jumping weight class to duck fighters. He still managed to fight Cotto, Mosley, Clottey, Cintron, Williams, Martinez et al. Cotto didn't leave a weight division to fight Pinto. Both were light-welters at the time and Pinto was undefeated with about a 90% KO record.


You have such double-standards it is you who are truly pathetic

I have only one standard and that is the old adage: to be the best, you have to beat the best, to which could be added "and not seek the path of least resistance". And I would apply that standard to any boxer, not just Amir Khan.

If you really believe a Valero-Khan match in Texas is viable financially, you really know nothing about boxing. For that matter, why not fight him in Tokyo, or Caracas. And the WBO title won't become vacant until at least late summer and he is not in the running for the vacant IBF belt.

Khan wants to stay busy. Khan is 22. They have taken the view that Kotelnik is the best fight out there for him now. The obvious connection with the names mentioned is that you should look at what they did for their first world title fight, not merely looking back in hindsight on a career, as if this will be Khan's biggest night. Who says he won't move back down to lightweight? It all depends on which fights are there.

One moment he gets criticised for not fighting real lightweights, the next he is criticised for fighting a world champion light-welterweight.

I don't think anyone is claiming he will be "the best" if he wins this. But he will be a world champion, why not give him a break and see how things work out?

gobbles wrote: If you really believe a Valero-Khan match in Texas is viable financially, you really know nothing about boxing. For that matter, why not fight him in Tokyo, or Caracas. And the WBO title won't become vacant until at least late summer and he is not in the running for the vacant IBF belt.

Khan wants to stay busy. Khan is 22. They have taken the view that Kotelnik is the best fight out there for him now. The obvious connection with the names mentioned is that you should look at what they did for their first world title fight, not merely looking back in hindsight on a career, as if this will be Khan's biggest night. Who says he won't move back down to lightweight? It all depends on which fights are there.

One moment he gets criticised for not fighting real lightweights, the next he is criticised for fighting a world champion light-welterweight.

I don't think anyone is claiming he will be "the best" if he wins this. But he will be a world champion, why not give him a break and see how things work out?

He will not be a world champion, just an alphabet title holder and a top ten LWW. No more than that.

hitman09 wrote:

gobbles wrote: If you really believe a Valero-Khan match in Texas is viable financially, you really know nothing about boxing. For that matter, why not fight him in Tokyo, or Caracas. And the WBO title won't become vacant until at least late summer and he is not in the running for the vacant IBF belt.

Khan wants to stay busy. Khan is 22. They have taken the view that Kotelnik is the best fight out there for him now. The obvious connection with the names mentioned is that you should look at what they did for their first world title fight, not merely looking back in hindsight on a career, as if this will be Khan's biggest night. Who says he won't move back down to lightweight? It all depends on which fights are there.

One moment he gets criticised for not fighting real lightweights, the next he is criticised for fighting a world champion light-welterweight.

I don't think anyone is claiming he will be "the best" if he wins this. But he will be a world champion, why not give him a break and see how things work out?

He will not be a world champion, just an alphabet title holder and a top ten LWW. No more than that.

That's your view. So how does Timothy Bradley get to be world champion? He's won the WBC and WBO belts - both abroad I might add - and Hatton won't fight him. So he might as well give up. The linear ideal is all well and good until it becomes a closed shop, then it stops being about ability and starts being just a popularity contest.

sg1985 wrote:

hitman09 wrote:

gobbles wrote: If you really believe a Valero-Khan match in Texas is viable financially, you really know nothing about boxing. For that matter, why not fight him in Tokyo, or Caracas. And the WBO title won't become vacant until at least late summer and he is not in the running for the vacant IBF belt.

Khan wants to stay busy. Khan is 22. They have taken the view that Kotelnik is the best fight out there for him now. The obvious connection with the names mentioned is that you should look at what they did for their first world title fight, not merely looking back in hindsight on a career, as if this will be Khan's biggest night. Who says he won't move back down to lightweight? It all depends on which fights are there.

One moment he gets criticised for not fighting real lightweights, the next he is criticised for fighting a world champion light-welterweight.

I don't think anyone is claiming he will be "the best" if he wins this. But he will be a world champion, why not give him a break and see how things work out?

He will not be a world champion, just an alphabet title holder and a top ten LWW. No more than that.

do you want to actually bet me on that?

I meant if he beats Kotelnik.

gobbles wrote:

hitman09 wrote:

gobbles wrote: If you really believe a Valero-Khan match in Texas is viable financially, you really know nothing about boxing. For that matter, why not fight him in Tokyo, or Caracas. And the WBO title won't become vacant until at least late summer and he is not in the running for the vacant IBF belt.

Khan wants to stay busy. Khan is 22. They have taken the view that Kotelnik is the best fight out there for him now. The obvious connection with the names mentioned is that you should look at what they did for their first world title fight, not merely looking back in hindsight on a career, as if this will be Khan's biggest night. Who says he won't move back down to lightweight? It all depends on which fights are there.

One moment he gets criticised for not fighting real lightweights, the next he is criticised for fighting a world champion light-welterweight.

I don't think anyone is claiming he will be "the best" if he wins this. But he will be a world champion, why not give him a break and see how things work out?

He will not be a world champion, just an alphabet title holder and a top ten LWW. No more than that.

That's your view. So how does Timothy Bradley get to be world champion? He's won the WBC and WBO belts - both abroad I might add - and Hatton won't fight him. So he might as well give up. The linear ideal is all well and good until it becomes a closed shop, then it stops being about ability and starts being just a popularity contest.

Tim Bradley does not get to be a world champion, not until he beats Hatton or whoever beats Hatton.There can be only 1 real world champion per weight division, and at the moment at LWW it's Hatton.
Harry Wills and Sam Langford never got to be world champions either, despite being the best in the world in their time. Jack Johnson did. Life isn't fair. Bradley may well be as good as or better than Hatton, but he still won't be a real world champion until he beats Hatton.

sg1985 wrote:
yeah i know, do you want to bet me he wont be a world champion if he beats kotelnik?

How would you win such a bet? Your opinion may differ to mine. I will say he is not a world champion, you could say otherwise.

sg1985 wrote:

hitman09 wrote:

sg1985 wrote:
yeah i know, do you want to bet me he wont be a world champion if he beats kotelnik?

How would you win such a bet? Your opinion may differ to mine. I will say he is not a world champion, you could say otherwise.

you said khan will not be a world champion if he beats kotelnik. thats the bet

?

sg1985 wrote:

hitman09 wrote:
?

are you actually prepared to bet on that? because you'd lose obviously

He will not be a real world champion if he beats Kotelnik. The real world champion at LWW is Ricky Hatton.

hitman09 wrote:

sg1985 wrote:

hitman09 wrote:
?

are you actually prepared to bet on that? because you'd lose obviously

He will not be a real world champion if he beats Kotelnik. The real world champion at LWW is Ricky Hatton.

No he is not.

Based on what? KT 77 years ago?

DG. wrote:

hitman09 wrote:He will not be a real world champion if he beats Kotelnik. The real world champion at LWW is Ricky Hatton.

No he is not.

Based on what? KT 77 years ago?

Yes. Whether or not you think he is the best LWW is a different matter, but he is world champion.