BoxRec

Quixall wrote:

G0mez wrote:Hang on, did i read that Jermain Taylor is going to stop Carl Froch ?

Is this a different Taylor to the one who aint stopped anyone for 4 years... not even a guy that Zab Judah knocked out..at Welter !!?

So your equating Carl Froch with......

William Joppy, Bernard Hopkins, Winky Wright, Cory Spinks and Kelly Pavlik ?

Because that's who Taylor has fought in those "Barren" four years !!

Froch is'nt on that level, has no defence at all, keeps his left hand low all the time, hence the reasoning, quite realistically, that Taylor could stop him.

Froch was a world amateur medallist (Britain's first), boxed around the world in hundreds of tournaments and lost about 11 of them, mostly under dubious circumstances - and in all them fights never even took a count or a knee.

Against Porras he broke his knuckle early and knocked him out, he fought with injections a month later rather than lose his ITV slot against Barney winning every round. He ruptured his bicep against Westerman in the 1st and stopped him then snapped his thumb clean at the base in the 2nd against Magee and then was the first man to KO him spark out. He knocked out Tatevosyan on the Friday night and then tore his anterior cruciate ligament on the Monday. He fought Robin Reid with 4 weeks prep and no road work and retired him.

Then after bottle-job Inkin, Jean Pascal came over and threw the kitchen sink at Froch's chin who didn't blink - and thats despite carrying a cracked rib (which Pascal targeted from the opening bell) and a perforated ear drum.

And you say that because Taylor got a split decision win over a Welterweight in Cory Spinks (who guy little Zab sparked) a dubious draw of light-middle Winky (most thought Winky won) a couple of fishy decisions over then-unpopular Hopkins and two losses to Kelly Pavlik (a KO loss and then his bottle went in the later rounds)...

...that he will stop Froch ?

I could buy a points win, because he's got a few dubious points wins already, but never a stoppage.

Froch is one of the toughest fighters in the sport.

G0mez wrote:Hang on, did i read that Jermain Taylor is going to stop Carl Froch ?

Is this a different Taylor to the one who aint stopped anyone for 4 years... not even a guy that Zab Judah knocked out..at Welter !!?

Well I think the reasoning there is that Taylor IS a big puncher - and Froch hangs his chin out.
And compared to Carl - Hop, Spinks and Wright are defensive masters. They don't get hit.
And Spinks chin is pretty good, he beat Mayorga after all - and when Zab is on song, he's P4P one of the hardest hitters around, and has the speed to get you with those shots you don't see...

Froch really needs to believe that Taylor hits like a mule, otherwise he could be in for a painful night.
I think I heard him note that Taylor sometimes starts hard and fast, which is true - he did that in the Pavlik rematch. But when KP landed a few good ones, he backed off and started boxing again.
Could be the same case here...

G0mez wrote:

Quixall wrote:

G0mez wrote:Hang on, did i read that Jermain Taylor is going to stop Carl Froch ?

Is this a different Taylor to the one who aint stopped anyone for 4 years... not even a guy that Zab Judah knocked out..at Welter !!?

So your equating Carl Froch with......

William Joppy, Bernard Hopkins, Winky Wright, Cory Spinks and Kelly Pavlik ?

Because that's who Taylor has fought in those "Barren" four years !!

Froch is'nt on that level, has no defence at all, keeps his left hand low all the time, hence the reasoning, quite realistically, that Taylor could stop him.

Froch was a world amateur medallist (Britain's first), boxed around the world in hundreds of tournaments and lost about 11 of them, mostly under dubious circumstances - and in all them fights never even took a count or a knee.

Against Porras he broke his knuckle early and knocked him out, he fought with injections a month later rather than lose his ITV slot against Barney winning every round. He ruptured his bicep against Westerman in the 1st and stopped him then snapped his thumb clean at the base in the 2nd against Magee and then was the first man to KO him spark out. He knocked out Tatevosyan on the Friday night and then tore his anterior cruciate ligament on the Monday. He fought Robin Reid with 4 weeks prep and no road work and retired him.

Then after bottle-job Inkin, Jean Pascal came over and threw the kitchen sink at Froch's chin who didn't blink - and thats despite carrying a cracked rib (which Pascal targeted from the opening bell) and a perforated ear drum.

And you say that because Taylor got a split decision win over a Welterweight in Cory Spinks (who guy little Zab sparked) a dubious draw of light-middle Winky (most thought Winky won) a couple of fishy decisions over then-unpopular Hopkins and two losses to Kelly Pavlik (a KO loss and then his bottle went in the later rounds)...

...that he will stop Froch ?

I could buy a points win, because he's got a few dubious points wins already, but never a stoppage.

Froch is one of the toughest fighters in the sport.

Tyrell Biggs won an Olympic gold and did'nt win a world title, so with all due respect, world amateur titles mean little in the profesional ranks. It does'nt always follow that because you were a relatively successfull amateur fighter, that your going to be the same in the pro ranks.....

Injuries are part of the sport, Clinton Woods fought for a few years with an iron deficiancy, before it was diagnosed around the time of the second fight with Johnson, so all fighters have to fight with some kind of injury or ailment at some time in their respective careers....

You make out that Taylor was hopeless against Wright, Hopkins and Spinks, even dismissing Spinks as a blown up nobody, but then make out that Froch is a bit special because he beat the likes of Reid, Magee and Tatevosyan, which seems very odd, considering none of those names you mentioned could have lived with the likes of Joppy, Spinks, Hopkins and Wright.

The fact remains, whether Froch is a hard, rough, tough guy or not, he lacks world class experience, has'nt had many fights against high calibre opponents and does'nt have an all round style that marks him out as a truely "world class" fighter. He relies a lot on his power and the resistance of his chin, because his style lacks basic fundamentals, particularly in defence, where he is wide open to counter shots.....

My argumemnt is that, Taylor will be one of the hardest punching fighters Froch has faced, has good skils and is experienced at world level, against top draw fighters. Froch has'nt been exposed, as yet, because he has'nt faced anyone who can truely exploit his weaknesses and i think that Taylor could be that man.

I wouldn't be over surprised to see Taylor stop Froch - not that I think it's going to happen though.

i think this is a tight fight, but im pulling for froch on this one i think he will be to strong, and powerful for taylor. However, taylor will definatley be able to tag froch. as he keeps that left so low. so taylor could outbox him and win. but my prediction is late tko for froch also i think taylor has lost heart in the sport and will not be as hungry as froch.

Quixall wrote:
Tyrell Biggs won an Olympic gold and did'nt win a world title, so with all due respect, world amateur titles mean little in the profesional ranks. It does'nt always follow that because you were a relatively successfull amateur fighter, that your going to be the same in the pro ranks.....

Injuries are part of the sport, Clinton Woods fought for a few years with an iron deficiancy, before it was diagnosed around the time of the second fight with Johnson, so all fighters have to fight with some kind of injury or ailment at some time in their respective careers....

You make out that Taylor was hopeless against Wright, Hopkins and Spinks, even dismissing Spinks as a blown up nobody, but then make out that Froch is a bit special because he beat the likes of Reid, Magee and Tatevosyan, which seems very odd, considering none of those names you mentioned could have lived with the likes of Joppy, Spinks, Hopkins and Wright.

The fact remains, whether Froch is a hard, rough, tough guy or not, he lacks world class experience, has'nt had many fights against high calibre opponents and does'nt have an all round style that marks him out as a truely "world class" fighter. He relies a lot on his power and the resistance of his chin, because his style lacks basic fundamentals, particularly in defence, where he is wide open to counter shots.....

My argumemnt is that, Taylor will be one of the hardest punching fighters Froch has faced, has good skils and is experienced at world level, against top draw fighters. Froch has'nt been exposed, as yet, because he has'nt faced anyone who can truely exploit his weaknesses and i think that Taylor could be that man.

My example of names was the circumstances under which he won.

Taylor took a few digs and backed off in Pavlik part 2. Wheras Froch has fought through adversity and got the win.

When comes to attrition, Taylor alway's bails out.

If Taylor is going to stop Froch, it would need to be inside the first 5 rounds because after that, his engine falls apart.

A post round-6 stoppage will always be in Froch's favour.

Crikey, i remember after round 1 against Kassim Ouma that Taylor looked like he needed a lung transplant..talk about blowing a gasket (against another tiddler I add).

G0mez wrote:

Quixall wrote:
Tyrell Biggs won an Olympic gold and did'nt win a world title, so with all due respect, world amateur titles mean little in the profesional ranks. It does'nt always follow that because you were a relatively successfull amateur fighter, that your going to be the same in the pro ranks.....

Injuries are part of the sport, Clinton Woods fought for a few years with an iron deficiancy, before it was diagnosed around the time of the second fight with Johnson, so all fighters have to fight with some kind of injury or ailment at some time in their respective careers....

You make out that Taylor was hopeless against Wright, Hopkins and Spinks, even dismissing Spinks as a blown up nobody, but then make out that Froch is a bit special because he beat the likes of Reid, Magee and Tatevosyan, which seems very odd, considering none of those names you mentioned could have lived with the likes of Joppy, Spinks, Hopkins and Wright.

The fact remains, whether Froch is a hard, rough, tough guy or not, he lacks world class experience, has'nt had many fights against high calibre opponents and does'nt have an all round style that marks him out as a truely "world class" fighter. He relies a lot on his power and the resistance of his chin, because his style lacks basic fundamentals, particularly in defence, where he is wide open to counter shots.....

My argumemnt is that, Taylor will be one of the hardest punching fighters Froch has faced, has good skils and is experienced at world level, against top draw fighters. Froch has'nt been exposed, as yet, because he has'nt faced anyone who can truely exploit his weaknesses and i think that Taylor could be that man.

My example of names was the circumstances under which he won.

Taylor took a few digs and backed off in Pavlik part 2. Wheras Froch has fought through adversity and got the win.

When comes to attrition, Taylor alway's bails out.

If Taylor is going to stop Froch, it would need to be inside the first 5 rounds because after that, his engine falls apart.

A post round-6 stoppage will always be in Froch's favour.

Crikey, i remember after round 1 against Kassim Ouma that Taylor looked like he needed a lung transplant..talk about blowing a gasket (against another tiddler I add).

I would have to say that perhaps a decision is more likely, if Taylor does win the fight, because your right in saying that Taylor starts early and then looks blown out from the 8th or 9th round onwards.....

Should be a great fight and they are both counter punches and have that left hand low and to put the record straight, i would be chuffed to bits if Froch won, because i have watched him sinc his pro debut.

Taylor will outpoint Froch if it goes all the way. Froch has to get on Taylors case early as he did with Pascal and try to take him out. Its an interesting fight because Froch does have the power to drop Taylor but Taylor can bang too and despite Froches excellent chin it is possible Taylor could find the big shot and put Carl down for the first time. Froch has a size advantage but Taylor has the World class experiance so in many ways its a pretty even fight. Froch is going to be an open target for Taylor with his low left so Froch is going to have to take some punishment as well as losing rounds. If Froch does pull it off by stopping Taylor I can see a showdown with Kessler around this time next year.

Froch could be vulnerable over the first half. Taylor will likely find it easy to hit a big bloke like Froch.

Then I think Taylor will be vulnerable over the 2nd half when his lack of stamina kicks in. He won't fold like in 1st Pavlik fight, the fade will be more subtle. At some point the workrate will drop of and he won't be doing anything more than his opponent, at best just hanging in there with him, at worst gettign backed up and maybe hurt.

This is where I think Froch's hunger and go-and-get-it will pay off. This fight means more to him.

If Froch boxes, he could make it hard for Taylor to get past those long arms.

I can't be objective about this fight I'm too excited about it, so I'll just go with what I want to happen :) - The Cobra to knock No Intentions spark out!

Come on Carl

i think taylor wins on points but hope im proved wrong

I think Taylor is going to get a fairly close points win in this one. I think he'll be able to put a few rounds in the bag early with a combinations of his boxing skills and Frochs lack of composure. I thought he was too easy to hit against Pascal and it was as much to do with a lack of composure as it was his low left hand. Hopefully Froch can start wearing him down in the second half of the fight, but if he leaves himself open to shots like he did in the Pascal fight he's going to be in for a long night. Taylor to hang on for a close decision but I'm hoping Froch can pull it off.

I'll be covering the first 5 rounds betting. I think Froch takes him out early

But if its on online PPV, who cares?

Taylor is ready to be taken.

If Froch doesn't, someone else will pretty soon.

Taylor got some big names but his performances were nothing special.

His draw with Wright doesn't look so good now - even though it was a good fight - when you look at how decisively Paul Williams beat Wright.

I know Wright is more faded now, but his legs looked stiff and obviously his power was close to zero in the Taylor fight.

If Taylor was this super duper fighter, he would have been beating the likes of Wright, he would have been finishing off the likes of Pavlik.

IMO it's all in place for Froch. I feel it's his time to grab it - no one else seems to have his hunger at super middle. Bute wasn't going to give Andrade a rematch, because of allegations made by Andrade's trainer that the ref was in the fix. As such, Bute, among many others, feel they have nothing to prove. Did Balzsay object to his woeful 1st defence, Masoe? Bet he didn't. They just keep their nice little earner and be one of the crowd. Froch seems willing to grab it and break the mould. I feel injury will undo Froch one day, but hopefully not yet.

Terry D wrote:

MatthewS wrote:Not so fussed about the how/why of it, but i really want Taylor to get sparked out... his yankee fans annoy me, they were so certain he would destroy pavlik, and even after he lost TWICE they still went on about Taylor staggering him as if it counted for eff all... I hope Froch retires him.

I did that

If they fought again, I would go for Taylor. Taylor is far better than Pavlik, unfortunately reality has damaged the point a little

First Audley, then Taylor... Terry's cred sinks lower as his wit goes higher.

MightyWarrior wrote:

G0mez wrote:Hang on, did i read that Jermain Taylor is going to stop Carl Froch ?

Is this a different Taylor to the one who aint stopped anyone for 4 years... not even a guy that Zab Judah knocked out..at Welter !!?

Well I think the reasoning there is that Taylor IS a big puncher - and Froch hangs his chin out.
And compared to Carl - Hop, Spinks and Wright are defensive masters. They don't get hit.
And Spinks chin is pretty good, he beat Mayorga after all - and when Zab is on song, he's P4P one of the hardest hitters around, and has the speed to get you with those shots you don't see...

Froch really needs to believe that Taylor hits like a mule, otherwise he could be in for a painful night.
I think I heard him note that Taylor sometimes starts hard and fast, which is true - he did that in the Pavlik rematch. But when KP landed a few good ones, he backed off and started boxing again.
Could be the same case here...

I agree with your 2nd Paragraph, Froch NEEDS to think that.... but, it could be like Joe Calzaghe - he looked like a dynamite puncher on the way through, stepping him up to world level - and he cannot KO "chinny" fighters (e.g. Brewer). When did Taylor KO a world class fighter?

this could look like Margarito/Mosely, unfortunately. Anyone else think this?

Riddick Blowe wrote:this could look like Margarito/Mosely, unfortunately. Anyone else think this?

Funny enough that's why I said it wasn't impossible for Froch to get stopped. Carl needs to tighten that defence up and not let himself fight stupidly against a very decent boxer. Although Froch will get to him late in my view but I can definitely see an arguement for Taylor completely outclassing him.

Dioufy wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:this could look like Margarito/Mosely, unfortunately. Anyone else think this?

Funny enough that's why I said it wasn't impossible for Froch to get stopped. Carl needs to tighten that defence up and not let himself fight stupidly against a very decent boxer. Although Froch will get to him late in my view but I can definitely see an arguement for Taylor completely outclassing him.

x 3, i know what you mean anyway, like Mosley in the context of Margarito taylor is a lot more explosive than froch i think

Some people are picking Taylor on the grounds that he has better names on his resume. That is a major consideration, but it is not the ONLY consideration. It's not just "who's he fought?", it's also "how's he fought?". Froch is fresher and hungrier and his boxing skills are being badly underrated on here. Sure, he hasn't demonstrated those skills against the likes of a Hopkins or Wright, but it is possible to extrapolate to some extent from seeing what he can produce against lower, but decent opposition. After all, that is how we assess a prospect, and that, despite the belt around his waist, is what Froch still is. Based on what I've seen of both men, I fully expect Froch to solve the puzzle Taylor will set for him, and win in style.