I'm not going to join the raging going on here.....but....for those who think Duran was just a wild slugger, take a look at his face....the most recent pictures you can find...and you'll have to consider he had SOME boxing skills....subtle defensive moves when he was in any kind of shape. I think it's hard to determine how good he was because he let himself get out of shape so badly bewtween fights. I think he was an excellent all round fighter when he was at his best...but too erratic to be rated as high as perhaps he should be, because the really great ones all have one factor in common....consistency.
Without going back too far in history I think as a lightweight Ike Williams was his superior.
Was Duran overrated?
If Duran was overrated, every fighter should hope to be overrated like he was.
Duran won three legitimate world titles, the WBC welterweight, WBA light middleweight and WBC middleweight. He defeated a long list of current or former world champions including Carlos Palomino, Sugar Ray Leonard, Davey Moore, Iran Barkley and Jorge Castro. He was still a contender at super middleweight--nearly 35 pounds above where he began his career--when he won a fringe championship belt at the age of 49.
That's not a bad career. The thing is, that is just the downside of Duran's career. I didn't mention a thing he did prior to the day in January 1979 when he relinquished the world lightweight title.
The guy has a career better than some Hall of Famers if you only count what he accomplished after he had passed his prime. Add in the fact that he may have been the best lightweight ever...
Duran won three legitimate world titles, the WBC welterweight, WBA light middleweight and WBC middleweight. He defeated a long list of current or former world champions including Carlos Palomino, Sugar Ray Leonard, Davey Moore, Iran Barkley and Jorge Castro. He was still a contender at super middleweight--nearly 35 pounds above where he began his career--when he won a fringe championship belt at the age of 49.
That's not a bad career. The thing is, that is just the downside of Duran's career. I didn't mention a thing he did prior to the day in January 1979 when he relinquished the world lightweight title.
The guy has a career better than some Hall of Famers if you only count what he accomplished after he had passed his prime. Add in the fact that he may have been the best lightweight ever...
i got a kick out of watching so many of those late Duran fights...when he was in against nobodies...usually young..with records like 14-0....and i recall one especially..forget the forgetable opponent...but he was getting cute and with his moves and attitudes esentially patronizing duran. i told my wife.."watch this...this is going to be fun" . duran plodded along..then suddenly tricked the guy into lowering his guard and bang....knocked him cold. did this more than once.
his knockdown of barkley in their fight is one I show as a classic example. he hits barkley once..barkley moves back..duran forward with another punch...moves repeated...and the third time barkley goes down.
and this was the faded duran. it's moves like this that show how good duran could be.....and it's so dad that so many saw him when he was at his worst.
i won't say he was the best lightweight ever...but I do think whoever was would be in a real hard fight against him.
his knockdown of barkley in their fight is one I show as a classic example. he hits barkley once..barkley moves back..duran forward with another punch...moves repeated...and the third time barkley goes down.
and this was the faded duran. it's moves like this that show how good duran could be.....and it's so dad that so many saw him when he was at his worst.
i won't say he was the best lightweight ever...but I do think whoever was would be in a real hard fight against him.
Lightweight Duran: Foulmouthed and excellent fighter with no sportsmanship.
Because he was so handsome, his attitude only made him cooler.
Welterweight/Middleweight Duran: Foulmouthed, over-the-hill fighter with no sportsmanship. Because he was overweight, bearded and not particularly good-looking, his attitude made people think of him not very nice.
The perception of him would depend on which one you saw first, Light or Middle. Roy obviously saw him as Middle first.
Whereas, all the others are obviously older and remember him as a Lightweight.
I know you may think I'm a woman for saying about looks, but even men can be persuaded.
FINAL NOTE:
**********
1 Duran was an all-time great fighter.
2 He was one of the best lightweights of all time.
3 Duran grew up in the jungle raiding the crop plantations and defending himself against others with his fists. They even named a part of the beach after him because he ruled it so well.
It's natural for a guy like this to come off as a "bastard".
4 I think you are blinded by your hate of this "bastard" and you don't see his fighting skills.
Because he was so handsome, his attitude only made him cooler.
Welterweight/Middleweight Duran: Foulmouthed, over-the-hill fighter with no sportsmanship. Because he was overweight, bearded and not particularly good-looking, his attitude made people think of him not very nice.
The perception of him would depend on which one you saw first, Light or Middle. Roy obviously saw him as Middle first.
Whereas, all the others are obviously older and remember him as a Lightweight.
I know you may think I'm a woman for saying about looks, but even men can be persuaded.
FINAL NOTE:
**********
1 Duran was an all-time great fighter.
2 He was one of the best lightweights of all time.
3 Duran grew up in the jungle raiding the crop plantations and defending himself against others with his fists. They even named a part of the beach after him because he ruled it so well.
It's natural for a guy like this to come off as a "bastard".
4 I think you are blinded by your hate of this "bastard" and you don't see his fighting skills.
Durán was born in El Chorillo, a slum in Panama City. Growing up he worked as a shoeshine boy, a painter and a busboy among other odd jobs.Bockser wrote: 3 Duran grew up in the jungle raiding the crop plantations and defending himself against others with his fists. They even named a part of the beach after him because he ruled it so well.
I wonder, are you being metaphorical?
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knockout artist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: 03 Sep 2003, 13:18
Duran overrated? You must be mad.
Duran was the best fighter of the 1970's and one of the greatest lightweights of all times.
Duran was not a media darling and the man in the streets opinion of Duran is that he was an animal and a brawler, when in fact Duran is one of the most technically adept boxers of the 20th century.
If you want to know about overrated fighters look no further than Muhammad Ali and Ray Leonard. The were very very good fighters, but overrated, nonetheless.
To sum up the gulf in class, Duran peaked in 1978 and went through various periods of overeating and inactivity, then in 1989 he soundly beat Iran Barkley, who had KO'd Hearns the previous summer.
With respect, if you think Duran is overrated, I would suggest you learn more about boxing and look beyond what the Hacks write in the papers.
Duran was the best fighter of the 1970's and one of the greatest lightweights of all times.
Duran was not a media darling and the man in the streets opinion of Duran is that he was an animal and a brawler, when in fact Duran is one of the most technically adept boxers of the 20th century.
If you want to know about overrated fighters look no further than Muhammad Ali and Ray Leonard. The were very very good fighters, but overrated, nonetheless.
To sum up the gulf in class, Duran peaked in 1978 and went through various periods of overeating and inactivity, then in 1989 he soundly beat Iran Barkley, who had KO'd Hearns the previous summer.
With respect, if you think Duran is overrated, I would suggest you learn more about boxing and look beyond what the Hacks write in the papers.
If anything Duran is underrated. Even if you judge him just by his lightweight career he was a great fighter. Put that alongside his later career... winning the Welter title ....coming back to win Light Middle and Middle titles when everyone had written him off ....then still competing with good class opponents into his late 40s... the man was a marvel.
And remember Duran went up in weight the old fashioned way, by getting fatter, rather than taking any dodgy pills or anything like that.
Also look at how Duran changed his style as he moved up... he could still slug it out but he also used great boxing ability.... his victory over Barkely was masterful and I think takibg his age into account probably his greatest acheievement.
As for Duran the man he has done many things over the years that show he is a very decent human being. Visiting a dying Dejesus is just one of them (and this was in 80s when the stigma over Aids was at it's highest).
As for his second fight against Leonard he was obviously sick through losing so much weight so quickly and quit rather that experience an embarresing accident in the ring. I think you can imagine what I mean.
Duran is due a place as one of the top 3 boxers of all time at any weight.
Just look at his record and try to find anyone who measures up.... theres precious few who do.
And remember Duran went up in weight the old fashioned way, by getting fatter, rather than taking any dodgy pills or anything like that.
Also look at how Duran changed his style as he moved up... he could still slug it out but he also used great boxing ability.... his victory over Barkely was masterful and I think takibg his age into account probably his greatest acheievement.
As for Duran the man he has done many things over the years that show he is a very decent human being. Visiting a dying Dejesus is just one of them (and this was in 80s when the stigma over Aids was at it's highest).
As for his second fight against Leonard he was obviously sick through losing so much weight so quickly and quit rather that experience an embarresing accident in the ring. I think you can imagine what I mean.
Duran is due a place as one of the top 3 boxers of all time at any weight.
Just look at his record and try to find anyone who measures up.... theres precious few who do.
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Sweet Scientist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 13 Oct 2003, 18:19
Roberto Duran was NOT overrated...
I've always been impressed with his skills as a fighter.
I have not always been impressed with his personality...
I vaguely remember Duran being interviewed (via translator) after a televised fight, years ago. He was asked a question, responded in Spanish, and it was translated into English...something to the effect of, "If I could have, I would have killed him." Duran seemed agitated and dead serious.
(Perhaps somebody can remember the fight & interview in more detail??)
The sport of boxing didn't need one of it's 'stars' talking like that on TV. Nobody should want to literally kill someone in the ring. Nobody should SAY they want to kill someone either. Sounded more like a mercinary or assassin instead of a professional boxer. It's supposed to be a sport, isn't it?
I've always been impressed with his skills as a fighter.
I have not always been impressed with his personality...
I vaguely remember Duran being interviewed (via translator) after a televised fight, years ago. He was asked a question, responded in Spanish, and it was translated into English...something to the effect of, "If I could have, I would have killed him." Duran seemed agitated and dead serious.
(Perhaps somebody can remember the fight & interview in more detail??)
The sport of boxing didn't need one of it's 'stars' talking like that on TV. Nobody should want to literally kill someone in the ring. Nobody should SAY they want to kill someone either. Sounded more like a mercinary or assassin instead of a professional boxer. It's supposed to be a sport, isn't it?
Sweet Scientist, I think you may be refering to Durans win over Ray Lampkin when Lampkin was koed badly in the 14th..... Lampkin was hospitalised and Duran was informed of this in an interview and replied something like ' if I was in top shape he would be in the morgue'..... while this isn't pretty you have to remmember that Duran at his best in his younger days was an animal in terms of ferocity and desire.... this was part of his greatness, part of his spark. Don't forget Durans background... he had a rough, rough upbringing and had to literally survive on his wits since child-hood. Later in his career Duran mellowed a lot, he became a thinking fighter and boxer..... and he mellowed alot as a man... I have a later fight of his (I can't remember the opponents name) where Duran after flooring and getting the better of his young opponent (who was just in his early 20s) holds back and gestures to the ref to stop the fight... which he does and after the fight Duran says something like 'he's just a kid with his whole career ahead of him, I didn't want to have to hurt him!'.
I'm not trying to make Duran out as an angel but I ve always felt that he was a basically decent and forthright guy with no 'side' to him.
Incidentially, Ray Arcel who trained Duran in his heyday wrote in an article I have that duran was 'the most decent human being I ve ever encountered'.
High praise indeed, but he knew Duran better than anyone (and this article was written in early 90... long after Arcel stopped training Duran.
I'm not trying to make Duran out as an angel but I ve always felt that he was a basically decent and forthright guy with no 'side' to him.
Incidentially, Ray Arcel who trained Duran in his heyday wrote in an article I have that duran was 'the most decent human being I ve ever encountered'.
High praise indeed, but he knew Duran better than anyone (and this article was written in early 90... long after Arcel stopped training Duran.
Duran Overrated? not even close.
The man is arguably top 3 fighter p4p in the world, he's the best lightweight of all time he beat Leonard in a weight that wasn't his, he gave Hagler all he could handle in 83'(as a middleweight) he was actaualy leading on two of the score cards up until the 13 round, he won titles at lighweight, welter, jr middle and middleweight.
Some even have him ranked as the 2nd greatest figher of all time ahead of Ali(as i personaly think he should be).
The man is arguably top 3 fighter p4p in the world, he's the best lightweight of all time he beat Leonard in a weight that wasn't his, he gave Hagler all he could handle in 83'(as a middleweight) he was actaualy leading on two of the score cards up until the 13 round, he won titles at lighweight, welter, jr middle and middleweight.
Some even have him ranked as the 2nd greatest figher of all time ahead of Ali(as i personaly think he should be).
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knockout artist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: 03 Sep 2003, 13:18
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The_Wild_Man
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 29
- Joined: 14 Mar 2003, 08:44
This thread was started by one poster who with his prepubescent urge for attention decided to fill the forum with controversial statements, such as "Duran is overrated" or "Monzon could beat Lewis". Unfortunately, someone decide to bring it back to live from one the back pages (where it should have stayed).
This poster later made a comeback under the name Lopman and, likewise, got in trouble again with some other outrageous stuff.
Watch out for him, he loves the Patterson-Johanson saga and ray Robinson. He hates Hamed, Duran and Lennox Lewis and his threadlocks.
Also, he is always asking questions about buying videos, specifically PAL format as he comes from Scotland.
If you contradict him he'll call out your name and immediatly tell you exactly how you should post. If you don't follow his rules, he'll call you a troll.
Expect him back anyday, say taht Johanson could take on lewis anyday and follow that up with 200 posts in one week. After that, he'll vanish again.
This poster later made a comeback under the name Lopman and, likewise, got in trouble again with some other outrageous stuff.
Watch out for him, he loves the Patterson-Johanson saga and ray Robinson. He hates Hamed, Duran and Lennox Lewis and his threadlocks.
Also, he is always asking questions about buying videos, specifically PAL format as he comes from Scotland.
If you contradict him he'll call out your name and immediatly tell you exactly how you should post. If you don't follow his rules, he'll call you a troll.
Expect him back anyday, say taht Johanson could take on lewis anyday and follow that up with 200 posts in one week. After that, he'll vanish again.
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FreeIkemefula
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 42
- Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 02:34
Re: Was Duran overrated?
Well, he was overrated. His win over Buchannon was laughable. He cheated to get a title. He was a great fighter, but he was overrated. He lost to Iran Barkley too. I hate when people call him a champ at Super Middle. He lost that fight. I he is one of the most durable fighters who fought well over 100 times. He has one of the best level of comp of all time too.SugarRoyRobinson wrote:I think he was. Sugar Ray Leonard completely and totally beat him and humiliated him in their 2nd fight. The first one was insignificant, as Duran psychologically drew him into a slugging match by insulting him. Hearns knocked him out quite fairly in the 2nd round.
I don't think his style, or rather lack of style, was so good. So what, he could punch hard and fast. So what, he could keep up a sustained offense. He won because he could keep on punching. You might say, "but so did Rocky Marciano and many others". Yes, but Marciano and the others were very tough and had what many people call HEART. Duran had none, as is proven in the Leonard-v-Duran 2 fight. And NO, it was NOT a fix, he QUIT.
He was too stupid and too much of a knucklehead macho-man to be in on a fix.
He was a bastard too(anyone who disagrees must REALLY like him). He constantly insulted Ken Buchanan in the fight. Waving his hand at him insultingly, sometimes pushing him, hitting after the bell.
I swear if you rang a bell in front of Duran he'd probably instinctively knock you out.
At the end of the finishing round of the Buchanan fight, he hit him in the groin(after the bell, of course). Buchanan grabbed his balls in apparent agony and had to quit.
The ref commented after the fight that it's impossible to hurt with a low blow because of the protector.
After studying the fight a few times, I noticed SEVERAL low blows in EVERY round. Maybe I'm trying a bit too hard to get at the bastard, but it could be possible that he displaced the protector and maybe the edge of it and his thigh sandwiched his balls(in which case a low blow would be far worse than if the protector was off).
In conclusion, I think he was overrated. I may be very opinionated, but he was a disgrace to what is the NOBLE ART.
"Prince" Naseem used to be my least favourite, but Naseem wasn't as much of an asshole and most boxing-fans disliked him.
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FreeIkemefula
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 42
- Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 02:34
Ted Bundy was awarded a community medal for saving a drowning 3 year old. He also later killed and raped a 9 year old. It was pretty nice of Ol' Teddy to save a girl, but he also killed a few. Duran was a fornicating csucker his whole life. So what he pets his dog, Hitler pet his dog too.Broncano wrote:From Esteban De Jesus - A Tragic Story
by Jim Amato--Boxing Insider
(...) While in prison De Jesus was infected with AIDS. Bedridden and dying Esteban received a surprise visit from none other then his old adversary, Roberto Duran. In a moment of compassion completely out of character for the mean and macho Duran, he had come to pay his respects. He had come to show his admiration for his toughest foe. He also knew in his heart that Esteban was a true champion.
Just to clarify what has been said about Duran:
This episode hardly shows the behavior of someone who doesn't deserve the respect of the rest of the boxing community.
And certainly not the behavior of a bastard.
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Roll With The Punches
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 53
- Joined: 20 Feb 2003, 12:50
are you people trying to say that Buchanan deserved to win that fight by getting clobbered the whole time?? 
his first fight with Leonard was a more accurate picture of who was the better of the two.....Leonard tried boxing for the first round but was caught with a big punch, so he chose to brawl at close range where Duran didnt have as much punching room
i do not buy into the whole 'chose to fight his fight' rubbish....if that were true, then why did he fight like that for the entire 15 rounds?? why didn't he adapt and go to a plan B when he realised he was losing Duran's fight?
his first fight with Leonard was a more accurate picture of who was the better of the two.....Leonard tried boxing for the first round but was caught with a big punch, so he chose to brawl at close range where Duran didnt have as much punching room
i do not buy into the whole 'chose to fight his fight' rubbish....if that were true, then why did he fight like that for the entire 15 rounds?? why didn't he adapt and go to a plan B when he realised he was losing Duran's fight?
Ted Bundy, Adolph Hitler, Idi Amin...what do you know?FreeIkemefula wrote: Ted Bundy was awarded a community medal for saving a drowning 3 year old. He also later killed and raped a 9 year old. It was pretty nice of Ol' Teddy to save a girl, but he also killed a few. Duran was a fornicating csucker his whole life. So what he pets his dog, Hitler pet his dog too.
After all, Duran really is overrated
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Sweet Scientist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 13 Oct 2003, 18:19
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FreeIkemefula
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 42
- Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 02:34
I know a fair share actually. Duran is overrated in a sense. In fact, all fighters are in a way. Too much importance is put on winning and losing. A guy loses and he is called shot, a guy wins he is a god...anyway, Duran was a great fighter. He wasn't some master of any kind. He was a tough mother who just beat people down. He quit a couple times, but he also fought more than most people. At lightweight he was great. Above it he beat SRl and that is about it. Hearns killed him, Hagler outpointed him, Benetez beat him and so did Barkley. At lightweight though the guy was an animal and should be called a great on that alone.Broncano wrote:Ted Bundy, Adolph Hitler, Idi Amin...what do you know?FreeIkemefula wrote: Ted Bundy was awarded a community medal for saving a drowning 3 year old. He also later killed and raped a 9 year old. It was pretty nice of Ol' Teddy to save a girl, but he also killed a few. Duran was a fornicating csucker his whole life. So what he pets his dog, Hitler pet his dog too.
After all, Duran really is overrated