BoxRec

Matt W wrote:My main point is this: would I have liked to have seen Hatton fight (and IMO comprehensively beat) Witter? Yes. Is it a stain on Hatton's career that he didn't? No.

I completely disagree with that and I think that many others do too. I would bet that on those after dinner appearances that Hatton regularly features throughout the UK, he is frequently asked about Junior Witter and why the fight didnt happen...

Matt W wrote: I just happen to think Witter tends to be greatly overrated when this debate rears its head.

I think youre missing the point completely... this debate isnt about what Witter was or wasnt (we all know Witter wasnt Floyd Mayweather, but we also know he was more than Eamonn Magee, Juan Lazcano, Aldo Rios etc etc). I think its clear to see that Witter was more than a legitimate opponent for Hatton, we can adduce this by simply comparing him to many of Hatton's opponents - and thats before we even consider that Witter was European and WBC Champion at LWW. This debate is about Hatton and his poor attempts to legitimise his efforts at dodging Witter, taking the focus away from this merely misses the point completely.

Matt W wrote: I just happen to think Witter tends to be greatly overrated when this debate rears its head.

I think youre missing the point completely... [/quote]

Sorry, but this is the point I wanted to make.

And to get technical about it the thread is actually Junior Witter/Devon Alexander.

Witter v Hatton would have been the worst fight ever. Hatton can't fight southpaws. Witter has low workrate. Hatton's a pressure fighter without mush stamina, post Maussa. Witter would probably freeze on the big stage. Hatton has the Huggy Bear style, Witter a wonky switch hitter.

We didn't miss anything. The only one who lost out was Witter, who could have got a big payday. But even if he'd have won, it wouldn't necessarily have made him an attraction. The ones who are chosen early on to be stars are the stars (Hatton) and Witter doesn't have much star quality. He has acrobatic quality and some power but not a great fighter to watch.

You can demand the fight on principle, but principle isn't a draw. Surely Hatton v Lazcano showed he could fight anyone in Manchester.

Autobarn wrote:Witter v Hatton would have been the worst fight ever. Hatton can't fight southpaws. Witter has low workrate. Hatton's a pressure fighter without mush stamina, post Maussa. Witter would probably freeze on the big stage. Hatton has the Huggy Bear style, Witter a wonky switch hitter.

We didn't miss anything. The only one who lost out was Witter, who could have got a big payday. But even if he'd have won, it wouldn't necessarily have made him an attraction. The ones who are chosen early on to be stars are the stars (Hatton) and Witter doesn't have much star quality. He has acrobatic quality and some power but not a great fighter to watch.

You can demand the fight on principle, but principle isn't a draw. Surely Hatton v Lazcano showed he could fight anyone in Manchester.

Boxing news today ask Where does Ricky rate, but they also say the glaring omission is Witter.

Hatton ducked him and good riddance to Hatton - retire and eat pies and get drunk!

Wittter fractured his hand and elbow and retired at the end of the round.

Oh well.

liamlion wrote:
But clearly Hatton has ducked the lad without good reason .

Hatton didnt want witter to get a big f-off payday off the back of him, and now look whats happened... Is witter swimming in a pool filled with £50 notes, no, is he fornicate, he's going to have to work for the rest of his life. Would Witter get recognised walking down the street in Sheffield, let alone New York, probably, if his mum was on the other side of the street*.
Hatton on the other hand... well, made man isnt he. Interest in his bank makes more than he drinks and eats, and thats saying something.







*Slight exaggeration sheffield, but replace that with, errrm, somewhere similar... errrm... rhyl.

Matt W wrote: Sorry, but this is the point I wanted to make.

Fair play to you, but the point you make has no relevance whatsoever in relation to a discussion as to why Ricky Hatton has avoided Junior Witter.

Wales wrote:

liamlion wrote:
But clearly Hatton has ducked the lad without good reason .

Hatton didnt want witter to get a big f-off payday off the back of him, and now look whats happened... Is witter swimming in a pool filled with £50 notes, no, is he eff, he's going to have to work for the rest of his life. Would Witter get recognised walking down the street in Sheffield, let alone New York, probably, if his mum was on the other side of the street*.
Hatton on the other hand... well, made man isnt he. Interest in his bank makes more than he drinks and eats, and thats saying something.







*Slight exaggeration sheffield, but replace that with, errrm, somewhere similar... errrm... rhyl.

Hatton did not want to ge knocked the eff out.
PBF said a lot worse than Witter about hatton.
Hatton thought PBF could not npnvch, wrong!

Sham o a fellow pro not wanting anothe pro to make a living.

Man of the people?

Fraud and a coward ( relatively speaking )....

Yes, I said it!

Wales wrote:

liamlion wrote: But clearly Hatton has ducked the lad without good reason .

Hatton didnt want witter to get a big f-off payday off the back of him, and now look whats happened... Is witter swimming in a pool filled with £50 notes, no, is he eff, he's going to have to work for the rest of his life.

Is that really a credible reason for a boxer not fighting his domestic rival?? Should Hatton be applauded for such a stance??... But if this is the real reason, why do you suggest Hatton did not take Witter up on his offer to fight for free with only his training expenses to be covered??

Wales wrote: Would Witter get recognised walking down the street in Sheffield, let alone New York, probably, if his mum was on the other side of the street

But whats your point??... Does that detract from Witter's credibility as a bona fide challenger to Hatton?? It didnt seem to affect Stephen Smith or Eamonn Magee's legitimacy to a Hatton fight??

Autobarn wrote:Witter v Hatton would have been the worst fight ever. Hatton can't fight southpaws. Witter has low workrate. Hatton's a pressure fighter without mush stamina, post Maussa. Witter would probably freeze on the big stage. Hatton has the Huggy Bear style, Witter a wonky switch hitter.

.

Autobarn wrote:Witter v Hatton would have been the worst fight ever.

Complete speculation and a statement that to be fair wasnt worth you even wasting your time typing. The reality is nobody knows how a fight is gonna turn out until the fight actually takes place.

I think the needle between both fighters would have added some real spice.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Autobarn wrote:Witter v Hatton would have been the worst fight ever. Hatton can't fight southpaws. Witter has low workrate. Hatton's a pressure fighter without mush stamina, post Maussa. Witter would probably freeze on the big stage. Hatton has the Huggy Bear style, Witter a wonky switch hitter.

.

Think it could well have been ugly. Think witter would have got knocked out though. Witter hates being put under pressure. Hatton's stamina may have dropped off post Tszyu, but he still until recently had a very good workrate - especially compared to witter.

Matt W wrote:My main point is this: would I have liked to have seen Hatton fight (and IMO comprehensively beat) Witter? Yes. Is it a stain on Hatton's career that he didn't? No.

Hatton clearly had reasons for not wanting to fight Junior and we could argue whether that was due to doubting his chances or not wanting to afford Witter the pay-day and profile (I go with the latter - Hatton proved he was willing to fight the best). I just happen to think Witter tends to be greatly overrated when this debate rears its head.

But you are not even talking about the subject at hand here, which is Hatton ducking Witter, which you deny. You are talking about their careers and who you think would have won and that Witter is overrated.

FAIR ENOUGH.

But that has nothing to do with the point that Hatton ducked Witter. You have claimed that Aldo Rios was more deserving of a shot at Hatton than Witter. I would like to see you back that up. And then we'll talk about Carlos Vilches.




Mortimer Adler

Witter had his greatest chance of pushing for the Hatton fight when he was fighting primetime on terrestial TV against an opponent 2 weeks before Hatton's comeback against Lascano.

The stage was set. A performance to match the Viv Harris fight followed by an Azumah Nelson style calling out of Hatton in front of the millions watching....

How does this story end again?


Dont cry for Witter. He always has Lucky Sambo to fall back on

lefthook82 wrote:Witter had his greatest chance of pushing for the Hatton fight when he was fighting primetime on terrestial TV against an opponent 2 weeks before Hatton's comeback against Lascano.

The stage was set. A performance to match the Viv Harris fight followed by an Azumah Nelson style calling out of Hatton in front of the millions watching....

How does this story end again?


Dont cry for Witter. He always has Lucky Sambo to fall back on

That accounts for why Hatton didnt fight Witter in the latter part of 2008. Now can you account for Ricky's avoidance of Witter for the previous 8 years??

I've always had the feeling that even if Hatton had fought and lost to Junior Witter during the early 2000nds, he would still have become the bigger attraction.

Witter may be more athleticly gifted than RH (although that's not to say he would have definately beaten him) but without the same trancendant appeal, the only way he was ever going to be a major player was to prove that he was something truly outstanding between the ropes.
Every single time that the oppertunity has presented itself for him to accomplish this, he just hasn't, for one reason or another, been able to rise to the occasion.

Hatton on the other hand (along with FW) has managed his career and direction of focus perfectly.
It could be argued that the limitations of his style meant that he was never quite good enough to forge ahead on the path of maximum resistance, hence the rather ruthless exclusion of JW from his schedule when he was a developing fighter.
But it was obvious that he made the correct choices because when he did step between the ropes with Tszyu for his big chance, he was ready and he delivered in emphatic fashion.
A result that obviously paved the way for a very lucrative, (if ultimately unsuccessful) spell at the top level.
My point is that until the day that boxing is managed by a unilateral ranking system whereby the best always have to fight the best, then you can't blame fighters and promoters for exploiting the current system in order to gain as much as they possibly can in what is, after all, a short lived and brutal occupation.

If I'd have been in Hattons shoes I'd have wanted Witter straight after the Thaxton fight when he was squawking on Rickys shoulder like a vulture, put it to bed in the next fight. Infact anytime over the next 3 or 4 years would have been acceptable but once Ricky beat Tszyu, Witter became completely irrelevant.

I once remember somebody saying "Why's Hatton fighting this Castillo bloke instead of Witter?" I simply replied "Are you fornicating thick or something?"

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And when people look back at Hattons record in a few years time they'll see these names - past their primes fair enough but still more impressive than Junior Witter.

Should he have fought Witter? Yes of course he should have done but a loooooooooooooooong time ago.

If you think of THE big domestic rivalry of recent times, Eubank and Benn. They both brought something to the table. Yes they ahd ITV, the plastic Spurs/Arsenal allegances etc etc but when its all said and done there was something in it for both

What did/does Witter bring to the table? I see this matchup as completely one sided in Witters favour in the sense that he had everything to gain and nothing to lose. He knocks him out he might become a star, he loses galiantly then he might still get better opportunities, he loses and I'm sure Lucky Sambo would b happy to give him a rematch

And there is no point countering with what did Rios, Pederson etc bring to the table because I doubt that Witter would have acepted the pay($/£50k for Phillips I think) or restrictive options

What does Hatton get fom this? A chance to beat up a domestic rival that only the people on ESB and Boxrec care about? Sorry, not seing the upside for him

lefthook82 wrote: And there is no point countering with what did Rios, Pederson etc bring to the table because I doubt that Witter would have acepted the pay($/£50k for Phillips I think) or restrictive options

Well you say that, but the reality is that in early 2008 Witter offered to fight Hatton for nothing. So there is every reason to suggest that had Witter been offered a fight with Hatton he would have taken it regardless of the money on offer.

Again this topic wrongly imo reverts to what Witter might or might not have done. The fact is Witter never had the chance to turn down the fght because he was never offered it by Hatton!!

lefthook82 wrote:Witter had his greatest chance of pushing for the Hatton fight when he was fighting primetime on terrestial TV against an opponent 2 weeks before Hatton's comeback against Lascano.

The stage was set. A performance to match the Viv Harris fight followed by an Azumah Nelson style calling out of Hatton in front of the millions watching....

How does this story end again?


Dont cry for Witter. He always has Lucky Sambo to fall back on

Witter could have knocked out Tyson and Ali back to back, Hatton would NEVER fight him for fear of getting stretched.

Hatton will forever be linked to old past it fighters and getting stretched twice.

AND in Britain for avoiding WITTER.

Eff Hatton - he is done.

Witter had the WBC belt that Hatton said he had to win in order for the fight to happen ( excuse number 7) Hatton still ran like a bitch.

lefthook82 wrote:
What did/does Witter bring to the table?

What does Hatton get fom this? A chance to beat up a domestic rival that only the people on ESB and Boxrec care about? Sorry, not seing the upside for him

A WBC Belt is what Witter brought and bragging rights - who is the best!!

Also it was a fight for the REAL BOXING FANS.. Although I admit 99% of Hattons fans would not know a left hook from a lamb chop.

Bottom line isn- if Hatton fought Witter all those uyears ago there would be no big pay days and the humilating knock out (Headbutting the ring post against PBF and Sleeping for 5 minutes agaisnt Pacman)against PBF and Pacman.


Haton knew it - his team knew it.

Mininmum risk and most money until you hit the big time and get exposed as a limited slugger!


Hatton Vs Witter 2009 - both past it and the gloss has gone from both.

You have claimed that Aldo Rios was more deserving of a shot at Hatton than Witter.

Mortimer Adler[/quote]

Show me where I said that.

I don't get involved in long drawn out debates on here because I have other things to do, like a job, and looking after my baby. Hence I make the, usually brief, points I want to make and get on with my day. Fact of the matter is I can't be ar$ed with debating the relative merits of individual opponents. Fair play if that's what you want to do, but it's not for me.

On this subject if my posts are irrelevant just ignore them and we'll both go about our day. And if it makes you feel better you can say your argument was better than mine and I cried off.

@liam i'm meant to believe that a wbc champion has offered to fight a challanger for nothing?

lefthook82 wrote:@liam i'm meant to believe that a wbc champion has offered to fight a challanger for nothing?

What, that Witter said it? or, that Witter meant it?