1970-1977 Middleweight Division The Monzon Era

[BoxBuzz]

Now Monzon....he was a genuinely bad man. And a very good fighter.

You don't seem to be on the ol' humanitarian rant against him.

This shows that somewhere you do have a great capacity to forgive.

Seems a bit odd, given your historical moral compass of truth honesty, tough love and judgment.

I've always thought the shotgun would fare well against Bob Foster....

I've been in the minority. And outside of your statements, I've never heard he was interested in the LHW trinket.

[scorpio83]

Ill Duce, this how the last 5 rounds went. Monzon dominated Briscoe in rounds 11 and 12. In rounds 13, Monzon cut Briscoe's right eye and Briscoe finished strong through the final 2 rounds, but it wasn't enough Monzon countered him with jabs and combinations to retain his title with a unanimous decision.

[scorpio83]

What happened in round 12?

[scorpio83]

Did Monzon reopened the cut on Briscoe's eye in the thirteenth round?

[scorpio83]

Did Monzon repeated his dominance over Briscoe in the 14th round?

[Seamus]

I have no doubt that at some point there was 'talk' of a Foster v Monzon bout, but just as in the case of Spinks v Hagler, no matter what the reputation of the smaller man, when it came down to it, disgression was the better part of valour. And that makes Harry Greb's one sided drubbing of Gene Tunney all the more impressive.

[Ezzard]

agree

[Seamus]

Discretion

[scorpio83]

What happened in the 15th and final round? Did Briscoe finished strong, but it was too late as Monzon retained his title with a unanimous decision?

[Crease]

Overall, the opposition Monzon fought in title fights was pretty decent. Not great, there were some mediocre guys in there, but respectable. Obviously nowhere near as good as Robinson's, but it was better than Hagler's

Hagler had a reasonably good standard of opposition when he was Middleweight Champ. My only grievance with Marvin is that toward the end of his reign, he started to get lazy and only defended his title lie once per year.

and much better than the mostly awful opposition that Hopkins fought.

Agreed. But I wouldn't dismiss Bernard's reign so quickly. The fact that he actively hunted down the other titles and repeatedly put his IBF Title on the line to acquire the other three is definitely something to be admired.

Wish that the current World Champions were so focused on becoming Undisputed Champions the way that Hopkins did a decade ago.

[BoxBuzz]

Discretion

Yes, but you Digress.

[scorpio83]

Can you please summarize Monzon's title defense rematches with Emile Griffith and Jean-Claude Bouttier in not a lot long details in each rounds?

[raylawpc]

Carlos Monzon {February 2, 1973}

'I may take time away from Boxing. I have been offered roles in '2 Movies, and have been offered a lucrative
modeling contract in Buenos Aires and Monte Carlo.'

'In 1972, I made more money than Heavyweight Champion - Joe Frazier. I don't need America, they need me.'

Sources please . . .

[raylawpc]

Carlos Monzon {February 2, 1973}

'I may take time away from Boxing. I have been offered roles in '2 Movies, and have been offered a lucrative
modeling contract in Buenos Aires and Monte Carlo.'

'In 1972, I made more money than Heavyweight Champion - Joe Frazier. I don't need America, they need me.'

Sources please . . .

Carlos Monzon met actress Susana Giminez on the set of 'La Piel del amor' in December 1972.

Soon, boxing was 'not' so important.

Nice try. But that movie poster isn't a source for your comments, as I quoted them above . . . Again, sources please.

[BoxBuzz]

April 30, 1973

Rome, Italy

Carlos Monzon and his wide Ana Maria 'Mercedes' arrive in Italy.

Carlos will face American - Roy Dale in a 10-Round non-title bout. The bout was originally scheduled for
Friday Night ~ May 5th in Milan, Italy.

But the venue has been changed to Saturday Night ~ May 6th as the Sports Palace in Rome.

Carlos, who has not fight in 5 1/2 months {since, November 12th in Argentina} is anxious to get back into the Ring,
and show that he has recovered from minor gun-shot wounds. Carlos who weighs 168 lbs., stated the he would be at
163 1/2 lbs. by fight time.

OK...I'll bite.....
"HOW WIDE WAS SHE"??

[BoxBuzz]

Hey....hold on a goll dang minute, you went back and fixed your spelling....first she was "wide", and then she was "wife".

If I didn't know better, I'd say you made a mistake.

By the way, I've never seen that pic before. Good show! I wonder how his kids are doing.

[raylawpc]

Hey....hold on a goll dang minute, you went back and fixed your spelling....first she was "wide", and then she was "wife".

If I didn't know better, I'd say you made a mistake.

By the way, I've never seen that pic before. Good show! I wonder how his kids are doing.

I think they are doing fine. Of course, Monzon is still an idol in Argentina, and his daughter Silvia had one of his movies remastered and re-released. His granddaughter, Silvia's daughter, is a popular fashion model.

[elmersalsa]

I met Roy Dale in 1993 in Cincinnati, OH gym in Downtown Over the Rhine section. He was the trainer of Ravea Springs in the amateurs.

[BoxBuzz]

Hey....hold on a goll dang minute, you went back and fixed your spelling....first she was "wide", and then she was "wife".

If I didn't know better, I'd say you made a mistake.

By the way, I've never seen that pic before. Good show! I wonder how his kids are doing.

I think they are doing fine. Of course, Monzon is still an idol in Argentina, and his daughter Silvia had one of his movies remastered and re-released. His granddaughter, Silvia's daughter, is a popular fashion model.

Uh hum.....pssst, Ray....he can't STILL be an idol, if he NEVER WAS an idol. Now I know a couple who live in Argentina who have told me he is truly a legend, best expressed in American Terms as a "Rock and Roll star in spite of his wicked ways." Along the lines of Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison etc.

But I heard from a credible source right here on BoxRec, that in fact, in his own country they never thought much of him. And I've given up on trying to educate my friends out in Argentina that they don't know what they're talking about. I doubt I'll ever be able to convince them they are mistaken. They're a bit obstinate.


(They will get a chuckle, as they do read our little forum on occasion and email me from time to time.....and they share my sense of humor).

[raylawpc]

Hey....hold on a goll dang minute, you went back and fixed your spelling....first she was "wide", and then she was "wife".

If I didn't know better, I'd say you made a mistake.

By the way, I've never seen that pic before. Good show! I wonder how his kids are doing.

I think they are doing fine. Of course, Monzon is still an idol in Argentina, and his daughter Silvia had one of his movies remastered and re-released. His granddaughter, Silvia's daughter, is a popular fashion model.

Uh hum.....pssst, Ray....he can't STILL be an idol, if he NEVER WAS an idol. Now I know a couple who live in Argentina who have told me he is truly a legend, best expressed in American Terms as a "Rock and Roll star in spite of his wicked ways." Along the lines of Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison etc.

But I heard from a credible source right here on BoxRec, that in fact, in his own country they never thought much of him. And I've given up on trying to educate my friends out in Argentina that they don't know what they're talking about. I doubt I'll ever be able to convince them they are mistaken. They're a bit obstinate.


(They will get a chuckle, as they do read our little forum on occasion and email me from time to time.....and they share my sense of humor).

Well, he's popular enough that Silvia made money remastering the movie, and she and Abel still live off his name, as does his ex-wife, so . . .

[raylawpc]

September 1973

Carlos Monzon preparing for his bout with Jean-Claude Bouttier.

Though Carlos was still physically strong, questions about his 'diminishing punching power' at {Age; 31}
were tossed around.

Questions by whom?

[raylawpc]

September 27, 1973

Carlos Monzon >
"I'm not sure of where I will be after this fight. It is a struggle to make weight, and I sometimes loose interest.
I have become bored, as there are no real challenges in the Division."

Radames Cabrera {Puerto Rican Middleweight and Carlos Monzon's sparring partner} >
"Carlos has clearly lost some of his punching-power. He pushes his punches more now, and his clubbing right-hand does
not hurt like it used to. He still throws a lot of punches, but they lack KO power."

Sources please . . .

[scorpio83]

Actually Monzon had 55 knockout wins prior to the rematch with Bouttier and scored 4 more knockout wins against Napoles, Mundine, Licata and Tonna. If Monzon scored 54 knockouts prior to the two matches against Rodrigo Valdez he would finished with 58 knockouts, but Monzon scored 59 career knockout wins.

[raylawpc]

September 28, 1973

Argentinian - Antonio Aguilar, a Carlos Monzon sparring partner says that the Champion is re-focused and
is in much better condition than his last bout {3-Months ago} with Emile Griffith.

'His power is still there. Not as 'one-punch' Knockout power, but in hurting power to keep you away. I predict
Carlos will win by a 6th-Round Knockout. The Frenchman is 'whistling-in-the-meadows' if he thinks he can Knockout
Carlos, let alone win.'

Emile Griffith >
'I think Jean-Claude will win. Carlos didn't show me much when I fought him in June {3 months ago}. After the bout
he said that he had a sore shoulder, but he never winced or looked liked it bothered him at all in our 15-Round fight.'

'In their 1st-fight, Jean-Claude had Carlos going in the 6th-Round. I never saw Carlos look so bad after getting hit. If
Jean-Claude brings in confidence when he steps into the Ring, he will win. I wouldn't at all be surprised if he knocks him out.'

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... GuY_QgH9jw

Carlos Monzon with French Actor - Alain Delon {The Fight Promoter}

You are paraphrasing . . . badly.

[raylawpc]

Jean- Claude Bouttier >
"He fouled me with punches to the back of my head. He should have lost at least 3-Rounds due to fouls. With that,
I won more Rounds than he did. With this type of scoring, he got more points than me because of the Knockdowns."

Caros Monzon >
"I just fought patiently. I let him wear himself out in the middle-Rounds. Then I picked him apart over the last 4-Rounds
and knocked him down 3-Times. With that, how can he say he won. I'm not sure anyone would want to see a 3rd-Bout
between us.

Sources please . . .