BoxRec

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Vitali was fighting Cedric Boswell. Would have been one of his tougher fights.

Kalan wrote:YOUR TALKING MORE GARBAGE!!!!

Cedric Boswell was a 2nd rater.. He hadn't fought a single name or decent opponent at that time -- and was knocked out by Jameel McCline in his next fight.

Every big Boxing fan knew who Kirk Johnson was... Hardly anybody knew who Boswell was. NOT a guy you need a big training camp for.

Controversial wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Vitali was fighting Cedric Boswell. Would have been one of his tougher fights.

Yep on the Lewis undercard, Boswell was unbeaten at that time. Lewis was due to fight Kirk Johnson but Johnson pulled out with a muscle tear in his chest two weeks before the fight, thats why Klit was offered his place. Lewis was planning to fight Klitschko after Johnson. Poor prep by Lewis, first fight in over a year and the heaviest he ever weighed. Still good enough to beat Klit.

Kalan wrote:YOUR TALKING MORE GARBAGE!!!!

Cedric Boswell was a 2nd rater.. He hadn't fought a single name or decent opponent at that time -- and was knocked out by Jameel McCline in his next fight.

Every big Boxing fan knew who Kirk Johnson was... Hardly anybody knew who Boswell was. NOT a guy you need a big training camp for.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Kalan wrote:YOUR TALKING MORE GARBAGE!!!!

Cedric Boswell was a 2nd rater.. He hadn't fought a single name or decent opponent at that time -- and was knocked out by Jameel McCline in his next fight.

Every big Boxing fan knew who Kirk Johnson was... Hardly anybody knew who Boswell was. NOT a guy you need a big training camp for.

It's 'you're' cupcake. I wasn't trumping Boswell as anything special, Vitali's resume is just as pitiful as your posting history. He was owning McCline, btw, fell apart in the last round.

Kalan wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:

Kalan wrote:
When you land a lucky punch you had help from your opponent... He made his chin available... The video record is clear... After almost getting knocked out in the first 2 rounds, Lewis f*cked Vitali up shortly into the 3rd round with an obvious thumb strike to the corner of VK's left eye... a wrestling grab around the head and Lewis's hair rubbed into the nick he opened with the thumb strike - while he held Vitali around the neck - followed... then maintaining his headlock Lewis ripped Vitali with a palm rake with his right glove... All those fouls opened 3 major cuts on Vitali's face (including his cheek) and blood started streaming into his left eye... That was the only time Vitali ever suffered a serious cut in his career -- and the only fight Lewis ever won on cuts... That fight should have gone to the scorecards because fouls contributed mightily to those cuts... Proper result??? Vitali Klitschko wins by Unanimous Technical Decision over Lennox Lewis in 6 rounds.. I think it's interesting that Klitschko could maintain his lead on the scorecards having to fight 4 rounds half blinded.

Kind of like Ward-Kessler went to the scorecards -- because unintentional head-butts by Ward opened a far less severe cut on Kessler.

As for Lewis fighting Vitali on 2 weeks notice... Lewis had been training for a World Heavyweight Championship Fight for MONTHS... Vitali had less than 2 weeks to prepare for a World Heavyweight Championship Fight.. Lewis retired after they made Vitali his mandatory challenger -- and after vociferously proclaiming he would give Vitali a rematch.. LL knew he dodged a bullet and wouldn't have Lou Moret as his referee in the rematch.

I think you're totally confused man. Lewis took the fight on 2 weeks notice. It said so in the broadcast. Klitschko was prepping for a Lewis fight his entire career, up until that point. Lewis basically retired after Tyson and didn't think it was worth defending against Byrd then people clamored so loudly for Lewis to fight Klitschko that he got tired of it and fought him anyway just to quiet them. After beating Klitschko, Lewis realized that the public would never be satisfied no matter who he beat, so he just called it quits. Lewis' mother pleaded with him to call it quits, as well. Those two factors convinced Lewis to walk away. This is substantially documented. As far as the cuts, it looked more like the big counter that Lewis landed near the start of the 3rd. That was a clean, hard overhand that ripped across Klitschko's face. Lewis was throwing his jabs in a raking motion across the face, but with the knuckles of the glove. It almost look like he was doing it because of exhaustion. The punches were just thrown out there with no whip on them. After Lewis realized how bad the cuts were getting, he started targeting them. That's a very
common strategy in boxing.

Klitschko was NOT prepping for Lewis. Lewis wasn't the champ for his whole career. Lewis lost the title a couple times and there was no guarantee he was going to win it back. Klitschko would be foolish to focus on Lewis, who could lose the title at any time. And a Heavyweight Champion's training camp is altogether different than anybody else's training camp -- except for the guy who's scheduled to be his next challenger. Because you pull out all stops when you're the champ... you line up more sparring partners, trainers, coaches, and just more help in general -- because it's important you hold on to the title, and important that you win the title. If you're preparing for a 2nd rate Heavyweight---such as Klitschko was doing---the pay isn't nearly as good.. You can't afford to invest millions in a training camp and you don't NEED to.. Lewis was getting 10 X the training expenses Klitschko was getting and he had a HELL of a lot more help on board. When the opportunity was presented Vitali had NO time to get more help on board -- Lewis already had everybody he needed in camp.

That overhand right 10 seconds into the 3rd round was a classic thumb strike... Within 5 seconds after that Lewis grabbed VK around the neck and slashed that nick open, while ripping open 2 more cuts on Vitali's face with a palm slash.. VK was pouring blood from his face when he came out of the clinch.. Klitschko should have been awarded the fight by Unanimous Technical Decision... More than 4 rounds were completed and he was winning on all scorecards. Since foul blows caused and contributed to the cuts the fight goes to the scorecards as the British TV announcers said it would. The fans knew who won the fight. They booed Lewis and cheered Vitali. Lewis promised Larry Merchant and the fans he would give Vitali a rematch. He lied.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I never once cheered for Lennox in a fight, but the hypocrisy is comical. He never came back, he won the fight, he's greater than both Klitschko's combined. Deal with it, it's never going to change.

jbizzle20 wrote:

Kalan wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:

I think you're totally confused man. Lewis took the fight on 2 weeks notice. It said so in the broadcast. Klitschko was prepping for a Lewis fight his entire career, up until that point. Lewis basically retired after Tyson and didn't think it was worth defending against Byrd then people clamored so loudly for Lewis to fight Klitschko that he got tired of it and fought him anyway just to quiet them. After beating Klitschko, Lewis realized that the public would never be satisfied no matter who he beat, so he just called it quits. Lewis' mother pleaded with him to call it quits, as well. Those two factors convinced Lewis to walk away. This is substantially documented. As far as the cuts, it looked more like the big counter that Lewis landed near the start of the 3rd. That was a clean, hard overhand that ripped across Klitschko's face. Lewis was throwing his jabs in a raking motion across the face, but with the knuckles of the glove. It almost look like he was doing it because of exhaustion. The punches were just thrown out there with no whip on them. After Lewis realized how bad the cuts were getting, he started targeting them. That's a very
common strategy in boxing.

Klitschko was NOT prepping for Lewis. Lewis wasn't the champ for his whole career. Lewis lost the title a couple times and there was no guarantee he was going to win it back. Klitschko would be foolish to focus on Lewis, who could lose the title at any time. And a Heavyweight Champion's training camp is altogether different than anybody else's training camp -- except for the guy who's scheduled to be his next challenger. Because you pull out all stops when you're the champ... you line up more sparring partners, trainers, coaches, and just more help in general -- because it's important you hold on to the title, and important that you win the title. If you're preparing for a 2nd rate Heavyweight---such as Klitschko was doing---the pay isn't nearly as good.. You can't afford to invest millions in a training camp and you don't NEED to.. Lewis was getting 10 X the training expenses Klitschko was getting and he had a HELL of a lot more help on board. When the opportunity was presented Vitali had NO time to get more help on board -- Lewis already had everybody he needed in camp.

That overhand right 10 seconds into the 3rd round was a classic thumb strike... Within 5 seconds after that Lewis grabbed VK around the neck and slashed that nick open, while ripping open 2 more cuts on Vitali's face with a palm slash.. VK was pouring blood from his face when he came out of the clinch.. Klitschko should have been awarded the fight by Unanimous Technical Decision... More than 4 rounds were completed and he was winning on all scorecards. Since foul blows caused and contributed to the cuts the fight goes to the scorecards as the British TV announcers said it would. The fans knew who won the fight. They booed Lewis and cheered Vitali. Lewis promised Larry Merchant and the fans he would give Vitali a rematch. He lied.

You've got to be joking if you think that punch was illegal. All sanctioning bodies upheld the decision. You don't think they looked at the tape after all the publicity the fight got? Lewis had two weeks, TWO WEEKS. Vitali was no chump. I don't care how much help Lewis had, it takes much longer than two weeks to prepare for Vitali Klitschko, an ATG, no matter who you are. Let's not act like Vitali was poor, either. He was absolutely in shape and ready. If you are fighting for the top titles, you train like you are fighting for the top titles. Vitali did. He just couldn't finish off Lewis. He fixed that issue after the Lewis fight as he would go onto have an 87% KO percentage. The media, almost universally, mocked Lewis for his horrible conditioning. Lewis was so skilled and gifted that he could bail his ass out even when badly under-prepared. To do it against Vitali Klitschko, no less, was simply incredible. Come on Kalan, you aren't making any sense.

Kalan wrote:That facts support me... Vitali WASN'T preparing for a World Heavyweight Championship Fight for months like Lewis was... Vitali had 2 weeks to prepare... Lewis WAS preparing for a World Heavyweight Championship Fight for months...

Kalan wrote:That facts support me... Vitali WASN'T preparing for a World Heavyweight Championship Fight for months like Lewis was... Vitali had 2 weeks to prepare... Lewis WAS preparing for a World Heavyweight Championship Fight for months... ALL the cuts happenend in 5 seconds of furious fouling... A thumb strike to Vitali's left eyelid... followed by a holding and hitting palm slash on the same eyelid and cheek... This was followed by more egregious fouls later in the fight that worsened the cuts... You are simply blind, deaf, and dumb when it comes to admitting this... and you make excuses for Lewis because he was LOSING the fight on ALL scorecards.

Controversial wrote:Lewis would've been 38 in the rematch, he was coming to the end of his career and had been fighting at a world level for more years than Klit had been a pro. Klit was younger, on his way up and always in shape, he was preparing to fight Lewis later in the year anyway. The challenger is invariably the hungrier or more dangerous opponent and sometimes these guys pull a great performance out the bag, for e.g Buster Douglas. He gave Lewis a tough fight but it wasn't good enough. It speaks volumes of Lewis' quality that he toughed it out and stopped Klit.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Spot on past vitali being an Atg. His resume is toilet paper.

jbizzle20 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Spot on past vitali being an Atg. His resume is toilet paper.

I won't argue that his quality of opposition wasn't that great, except for Lewis. I'm basing it on a more subjective approach, namely his fighting style. His jab was nasty and opponents just couldn't get inside on him. His chin was hardcore. Lewis proved that. Vitali should've been knocked out by that epic uppercut near the end.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Spot on past vitali being an Atg. His resume is toilet paper.

I won't argue that his quality of opposition wasn't that great, except for Lewis. I'm basing it on a more subjective approach, namely his fighting style. His jab was nasty and opponents just couldn't get inside on him. His chin was hardcore. Lewis proved that. Vitali should've been knocked out by that epic uppercut near the end.

I find that to be more speculation than subjective. The two best fighters he faced beat him. He has no wins of note and while he certainly passes the eye test, anybody that rates fighters historically on their own predictions is doing it wrong. Two things going against him are his limited power and punch variety. Watch the Kevin Johnson fight, a fat dude laying on the ropes and Vitali can barely touch him. He has certainly proven to be superior to the Manuel Charr's of history. Gotta give him that. His resume is inferior to Byrd, Ruiz and Rahman. So ATG? Not even close.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Spot on past vitali being an Atg. His resume is toilet paper.

I won't argue that his quality of opposition wasn't that great, except for Lewis. I'm basing it on a more subjective approach, namely his fighting style. His jab was nasty and opponents just couldn't get inside on him. His chin was hardcore. Lewis proved that. Vitali should've been knocked out by that epic uppercut near the end.

I find that to be more speculation than subjective. The two best fighters he faced beat him. He has no wins of note and while he certainly passes the eye test, anybody that rates fighters historically on their own predictions is doing it wrong. Two things going against him are his limited power and punch variety. Watch the Kevin Johnson fight, a fat dude laying on the ropes and Vitali can barely touch him. He has certainly proven to be superior to the Manuel Charr's of history. Gotta give him that. His resume is inferior to Byrd, Ruiz and Rahman. So ATG? Not even close.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The two best fighters he faced beat him.

Kalan wrote: SaadOff is used toilet paper that's full of Bullcrap.. Vitali fought tremendous opponents and was never out-boxed or out-punched. He was never or behind on points or floored by an opponent... Here's 13 of the better opponents who Vitali easily outboxed.

Kirk Johnson had only one loss in 36 fights, and that was by DQ ... Danny Williams knocked out Mike Tyson in his previous fight, and was in the best form of his career... Larry Donald was only stopped once in his career, by Vitali Klitschko .. Juan Carlos Gomez was 44-1 ... Tomasz Adamek was 43-1 and a 2-Division World Champion. VK was the first fighter to stop Adamek ... Herbie Hide was a 31-1 World Heavyweight Champion when he was flattened in 2 rounds. Hide outboxed Bowe for 3 rounds ... Sam Peter was 30-1 and knocked out Oleg Maskaevwho knocked out Hasim Rahman twice; and obviously Rahman leveled Lewis with one shot ... Timo Hoffman was 22-0 ... Chris Arreola was 28-0 ... Kevin Johnson was undefeated in 23 fights ... Corrie Sanders was a dangerous southpaw puncher and 39-2 ... Ed Mahone was undefeated in 23 fights... Vitali was beating Chris Byrd by a mile in their fight. He only lost because his rotator cuff was completely severed in a freak injury. VK had problems with the shoulder in training camp and it came apart in the fight... Vitali was beating Lewis on all scorecards at the end of their fight. He only lost because of foul induced cuts, and would have smashed Lewis right through the canvas in a rematch.