BoxRec

Post 4 Post wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 01:59 There haven't been many good Heavyweights in the last 20 years, so yes!
Lewis, the Klitschkos & the current crop is the most noteworthy fighters..

1. Lewis
2. Wlad
3. Vitali
4. Fury
5. AJ
6. Wilder
7. Briggs
8. Haye
9. Sanders
10. Ortiz

Byrd belongs nowhere lower than 7. he accomplished more than Briggs, Haye, Sanders and Ortiz.

It's not even debatable with Ortiz. Don't know why he'd be on the list.

Povetkin belongs there too. I'd have him at like 5 or so. He's had a better career overall than Wilder. You could argue he had a better career than Vitali even.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 02:21

Post 4 Post wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 01:59 There haven't been many good Heavyweights in the last 20 years, so yes!
Lewis, the Klitschkos & the current crop is the most noteworthy fighters..

1. Lewis
2. Wlad
3. Vitali
4. Fury
5. AJ
6. Wilder
7. Briggs
8. Haye
9. Sanders
10. Ortiz

Byrd belongs nowhere lower than 7. he accomplished more than Briggs, Haye, Sanders and Ortiz.

It's not even debatable with Ortiz. Don't know why he'd be on the list.

Povetkin belongs there too. I'd have him at like 5 or so. He's had a better career overall than Wilder. You could argue he had a better career than Vitali even.

I stand corrected!

Good point on Byrd who I completely forget when putting this quick list. I could have Byrd 5-6
Povetkin could also make the list, along with John Ruiz, Brewster & if only Golota didn't get robbed twice.

I'd probably throw away Briggs, Haye, Sanders & Ortiz

Off the top of my head, I'd pick the following to beat Joshua at their respective post 2000 bests: Lewis, Klitschko, Klitschko, Fury, Valuev, Povetkin, Byrd, Jones, Toney, Sanders, Holyfield, Tyson, Rahman, Tua, Ruiz Jr, Wilder, Haye, Briggs, Ortiz...

ya im sure that sweet sugar valuev would put on a boxing clinic vs aj

Having Briggs and Ortiz in top 10 is outrageous.

Jimmy2020 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 04:49 Off the top of my head, I'd pick the following to beat Joshua at their respective post 2000 bests: Lewis, Klitschko, Klitschko, Fury, Valuev, Povetkin, Byrd, Jones, Toney, Sanders, Holyfield, Tyson, Rahman, Tua, Ruiz Jr, Wilder, Haye, Briggs, Ortiz...

Joshua stands the best shot against Haye or Povetkin out of all them

Why do people keep mentioning the post-2000 iteration of Briggs?

He achieved nothing during the current millennium.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 06:25 Why do people keep mentioning the post-2000 iteration of Briggs?

He achieved nothing during the current millennium.

He won an abc-strap from Liakhovich actually. Anyway, it's hard to place him in top 30 of this millennium.

DrDuke wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 06:53

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 06:25 Why do people keep mentioning the post-2000 iteration of Briggs?

He achieved nothing during the current millennium.

He won an abc-strap from Liakhovich actually. Anyway, it's hard to place him in top 30 of this millennium.

It's good to agree sometimes!

Jimmy2020 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 04:49 Off the top of my head, I'd pick the following to beat Joshua at their respective post 2000 bests: Lewis, Klitschko, Klitschko, Fury, Valuev, Povetkin, Byrd, Jones, Toney, Sanders, Holyfield, Tyson, Rahman, Tua, Ruiz Jr, Wilder, Haye, Briggs, Ortiz...

I can't see Tyson, Holyfield, Toney, Jones, Haye, Valuev, Ortiz or Briggs beating him in their Post 2000 bests.

I don't think Holyfield, Tyson or Briggs would even have a chance against him frankly, Holyfield and Tyson were essentially shot from 2000 on or at least a far cry away from what they once were. Briggs couldn't beat Jameel McCline back in 2003.

Can't really see Tua beating him either, but he'd have a better shot than the others you mentioned.

I don't give Rahman or Sanders a very good shot either, but the version of them that picked up their biggest wins maybe beats Joshua.

Post 4 Post wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 05:34

Jimmy2020 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 04:49 Off the top of my head, I'd pick the following to beat Joshua at their respective post 2000 bests: Lewis, Klitschko, Klitschko, Fury, Valuev, Povetkin, Byrd, Jones, Toney, Sanders, Holyfield, Tyson, Rahman, Tua, Ruiz Jr, Wilder, Haye, Briggs, Ortiz...

Joshua stands the best shot against Haye or Povetkin out of all them

He stands more than a good shot against MOST of those guys. He'd be the favorite. His best was past the 2000's. A lot of these guys mentioned are 90's fighters or just weren't that good in the first place.

And for the record even though nobody is giving any credit to Brewster I'd definitely rank Brewster ahead of Briggs.

If to make a more prolonged list, I'll go this way:

1. Lewis
2. Fury
3. Wlad
4. Joshua
5. Vitali
6. Povetkin
7. Usyk
8. Wilder
9. Haye
10. Byrd

It's tougher to go further in terms of one-by-one ranking, the situation is always changing in addition to everything, but in the top 10 - top 20 range I'd put the likes of: Rahman, Chagaev, Whyte, Parker, Andy Ruiz, Hunter, Pulev, Ortiz, Helenius, Joyce.

In the top 20 - top 30 range I'd put the likes of Chisora, Sanders, Peter, Toney, Brewster, Golota, John Ruiz, Ibragimov, Oquendo, Kabayel.

In the top 30 - top 40 range I'd place Holyfield and Tyson, who were way past in 2000s and did almost nothing there, and the likes of Takam, Valuev, Maskaev, Rivas, Jennings.

Further there should be the likes of Liakhovich, Briggs, Larry Donald, Adamek, Arreola, Molina, Duhaupas, Hammer, etc, etc, etc.

The today's comers like Hrgovic, Yoka, Ajagba, Demirezen and Dubois are likely to surpass a lot of names from top 20 - top 40 range.

Well that took me like 2-3 days to read through all that. I didn't even remember posting on it 18 months ago.

DrDuke wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 11:22 If to make a more prolonged list, I'll go this way:

1. Lewis
2. Fury
3. Wlad
4. Joshua
5. Vitali
6. Povetkin
7. Usyk
8. Wilder
9. Haye
10. Byrd

It's tougher to go further in terms of one-by-one ranking, the situation is always changing in addition to everything, but in the top 10 - top 20 range I'd put the likes of: Rahman, Chagaev, Whyte, Parker, Andy Ruiz, Hunter, Pulev, Ortiz, Helenius, Joyce.

In the top 20 - top 30 range I'd put the likes of Chisora, Sanders, Peter, Toney, Brewster, Golota, John Ruiz, Ibragimov, Oquendo, Kabayel.

In the top 30 - top 40 range I'd place Holyfield and Tyson, who were way past in 2000s and did almost nothing there, and the likes of Takam, Valuev, Maskaev, Rivas, Jennings.

Further there should be the likes of Liakhovich, Briggs, Larry Donald, Adamek, Arreola, Molina, Duhaupas, Hammer, etc, etc, etc.

The today's comers like Hrgovic, Yoka, Ajagba, Demirezen and Dubois are likely to surpass a lot of names from top 20 - top 40 range.

Wilder @ 8
Valuev @ top 40

I agree, today's Wilder, even after his loss to Fury, washes a 47 year old Valuev.

Finkel wrote: ↑05 Dec 2020, 20:25 Wilder @ 8
Valuev @ top 40

I agree, today's Wilder, even after his loss to Fury, washes a 47 year old Valuev.

Any Wilder we've seen up to the date handles any Valuev.

Valuev was a huge (literally as well) joke and a protected cash cow for the German freak shows.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Dec 2020, 10:52 And for the record even though nobody is giving any credit to Brewster I'd definitely rank Brewster ahead of Briggs.

Without question

gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 18:03

snake33 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 15:56

DrDuke wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 16:17 1. Lewis
2. Fury
3. Wlad
4. Vitali
5. Joshua

That is a much better list. You can't put the Klits in front of two guys that beat them.
Hell, Joshua beat Wlad.
But boxers can only be compared to their era and this week it's:
Fury
Joshua
and everybody else.

When you beat somebody at the tail end of their career it don't necessarily mean you're better than them.

By that logic Trevor Berbick is better than Muhammad Ali.

Would wilder give wlad problems?
I dont think anyone wlad beat would test fury.... maybe chagaev?

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑05 Dec 2020, 21:29 Would wilder give wlad problems?
I dont think anyone wlad beat would test fury.... maybe chagaev?

The likes of Povetkin, Haye, Byrd, Pulev, Chagaev were among the best Wlad beat, but Fury would confidently handle all of them.

DrDuke wrote: ↑05 Dec 2020, 21:25

Finkel wrote: ↑05 Dec 2020, 20:25 Wilder @ 8
Valuev @ top 40

I agree, today's Wilder, even after his loss to Fury, washes a 47 year old Valuev.

Any Wilder we've seen up to the date handles any Valuev.

Valuev was a huge (literally as well) joke and a protected cash cow for the German freak shows.

Valuev certainly got A-side treatment and there was some dubious score cards. But Wilder's detractors would say the exact same thing about him as you said about Valuev.

The way to beat Valuev was to dance in and out of range and outbox him, not get into a slug fest. He mauled opponents who tried that.

So what do you think Wilder's route to victory would be?

If Fury was eating Wilder's best shots once he put some mass on, and just walked him down. What do you think a monster like Valuev would do?

So, what is the game plan for Wilder?

My game plan for Wilder would be jab, move around a bit, throw the occasional right and combos. He was faster, bigger hitting, more mobile than Valuev. Valuev actually was not a hard hitter despite his huge size and he moved ponderously and wouldnt be able to close in on Wilder coming forward like Fury did

Also John Ruiz shook him to his boots, as did Haye, and JF bergeron and titty nobles hurt him a bit too. i don't doubt wilder could do the same, there is this myth that valuev was somehow un hurtable

Finkel wrote: ↑06 Dec 2020, 02:43 Valuev certainly got A-side treatment and there was some dubious score cards. But Wilder's detractors would say the exact same thing about him as you said about Valuev.

The way to beat Valuev was to dance in and out of range and outbox him, not get into a slug fest. He mauled opponents who tried that.

So what do you think Wilder's route to victory would be?

If Fury was eating Wilder's best shots once he put some mass on, and just walked him down. What do you think a monster like Valuev would do?

So, what is the game plan for Wilder?

Valuev was very slow both on his feet and with his hands. He carried no huge power. He could only paw with a jab and one-twos. He had no defence.

Wilder moves faster, his handspeed is higher, his jab is better, he carries more power.

Valuev would walk towards Wilder, while Wilder would comfortably move and jab like against different Szpilkas and Duhaupas, occasionally throwing his rights. Valuev is the one, whom ironically Wilder can outbox. And Wilder definitely had enough power to hurt Valuev, who had been hurt despite having a freakish chin.

DrDuke wrote: ↑06 Dec 2020, 03:01

Finkel wrote: ↑06 Dec 2020, 02:43 Valuev certainly got A-side treatment and there was some dubious score cards. But Wilder's detractors would say the exact same thing about him as you said about Valuev.

The way to beat Valuev was to dance in and out of range and outbox him, not get into a slug fest. He mauled opponents who tried that.

So what do you think Wilder's route to victory would be?

If Fury was eating Wilder's best shots once he put some mass on, and just walked him down. What do you think a monster like Valuev would do?

So, what is the game plan for Wilder?

Valuev was very slow both on his feet and with his hands. He carried no huge power. He could only paw with a jab and one-twos. He had no defence.

Wilder moves faster, his handspeed is higher, his jab is better, he carries more power.

Valuev would walk towards Wilder, while Wilder would comfortably move and jab like against different Szpilkas and Duhaupas, occasionally throwing his rights. Valuev is the one, whom ironically Wilder can outbox. And Wilder definitely had enough power to hurt Valuev, who had been hurt despite having a freakish chin.

Wilder would have knocked out Valuev.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑06 Dec 2020, 02:50 My game plan for Wilder would be jab, move around a bit, throw the occasional right and combos. He was faster, bigger hitting, more mobile than Valuev. Valuev actually was not a hard hitter despite his huge size and he moved ponderously and wouldnt be able to close in on Wilder coming forward like Fury did

Also John Ruiz shook him to his boots, as did Haye, and JF bergeron and titty nobles hurt him a bit too. i don't doubt wilder could do the same, there is this myth that valuev was somehow un hurtable

Well Haye was known as a big puncher in his own right. I agree he hurt Valuev, yes, but Haye broke his own hand in the process. And he didn't drop him. Add to that Valuev seemed to recover almost instantly before Haye had a chance to rush in with a follow up on the stankey leg.

Also the problem with using the Haye fight as a yard stick is it was obvious from the previous fight when the ghost of Holyfield was dancing round him, that Valuev was ready to retire at that point in his career. Which isn't really surprising considering the guy had gigantism.

Ruiz II (the previous year) certainly got Valuev's attention with the over hand right. Sure. But I'm not sure I would say he hurt him. Valuev reset himself, then tripped over his own feet. And everyone got excited.

As for Titty Nobles, lol. The only hurting Gerald Nobles put on Valuev was to his balls. And the ref seemed more phased than Valuev.

He may not have been a reknowned big puncher, but Valuev was certainly heavy handed enough due to his sheer size to be able to knock opponents down with a jab.

Maybe Wilder wins, but again I think Wilder would have had a very difficult time with Valuev's size. I agree Wilder has shown he could box a bit against Stiverne, but I suspect he would have had a rough night against Valuev unless he started boxing to instruction (something his trainers have complained about Wilder not doing) and trying to score to the body.

My point is, I don't know how Dr. Duke could have Wilder at 8 and Valuev only in the top 40.

bobcatbox wrote: ↑06 Dec 2020, 03:18
Wilder would have knocked out Valuev.

I find that very unlikely.

Finkel wrote: ↑06 Dec 2020, 03:48 My point is, I don't know how Dr. Duke could have Wilder at 8 and Valuev only in the top 40.

Cause Wilder proved quite well, that he can be dangerous to anybody, as he did provide danger for every opponent he faced, including Fury. And Valuev lost to Larry Donald, shot Holyfield, John Ruiz X2 in addition to his official losses.

Valuev was utter crap, not a boxer at all, overblown fraud and just a circus tallman.