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Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 28 May 2021, 15:38
by orbtastic
Maybe. Maybe not. He was certainly a solid call for the best ama talent around, maybe one of the best of all time.
Breland was reportedly 110-1 with over 75% KO percentage with a lot of those in the first round which is practically unheard of in the unpaid ranks.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 28 May 2021, 15:48
by margaret thatcher
nope, never said that at all
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 28 May 2021, 15:50
by margaret thatcher
orbtastic wrote: ↑28 May 2021, 15:38
Maybe. Maybe not. He was certainly a solid call for the best ama talent around, maybe one of the best of all time.
Breland was reportedly 110-1 with over 75% KO percentage with a lot of those in the first round which is practically unheard of in the unpaid ranks.
it's a definite not with regards to the 400-,4 , at least 9 losses just on a partially collected list of his am fights, and over 400 am fights by 19 seems far fetched, not even career amateurs from kids till theirs 30s can usually do that many. no doubt he was an excellent am though
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 28 May 2021, 16:10
by ironbeard
Liston Like Jab wrote: ↑28 May 2021, 15:43
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑28 May 2021, 15:10
Liston Like Jab wrote: ↑28 May 2021, 15:01
He beat the number #1 in the division, then did very little else. Plenty of guys in lower weight classes have done that and they aren't in the international boxing hall of fame
an atg, top 10 hw is who he beat, and did so twice. really a fanstastic set of wins. he did beat some b level guys too. there are guys who've done a lot who aren't in , and guys who've not done so much who are in, just how it works out. either way,
So everyone how beats an ATG should be in the hall of fame?
Esteban De Jesus should be in there if that's the case.
I loved to watch Esteban De Jesus box. He gave Duran all that he could handle.
The story about Duran visiting De Jesus on his deathbed is moving, and it sheds an entirely different light on the Panamanian ATG.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 29 May 2021, 11:02
by Delta Jay
ironbeard wrote: ↑28 May 2021, 16:10
Liston Like Jab wrote: ↑28 May 2021, 15:43
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑28 May 2021, 15:10
an atg, top 10 hw is who he beat, and did so twice. really a fanstastic set of wins. he did beat some b level guys too. there are guys who've done a lot who aren't in , and guys who've not done so much who are in, just how it works out. either way,
So everyone how beats an ATG should be in the hall of fame?
Esteban De Jesus should be in there if that's the case.
I loved to watch Esteban De Jesus box. He gave Duran all that he could handle.
The story about Duran visiting De Jesus on his deathbed is moving, and it sheds an entirely different light on the Panamanian ATG.
What do you mean when you say different light? He was a terror in the ring but I very often hear stories or read things about how nice he was outside of it. Stories about giving people he’d never met his jacket and things like that.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 29 May 2021, 11:20
by ironbeard
Delta Jay wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 11:02
ironbeard wrote: ↑28 May 2021, 16:10
Liston Like Jab wrote: ↑28 May 2021, 15:43
So everyone how beats an ATG should be in the hall of fame?
Esteban De Jesus should be in there if that's the case.
I loved to watch Esteban De Jesus box. He gave Duran all that he could handle.
The story about Duran visiting De Jesus on his deathbed is moving, and it sheds an entirely different light on the Panamanian ATG.
What do you mean when you say different light? He was a terror in the ring but I very often hear stories or read things about how nice he was outside of it. Stories about giving people he’d never met his jacket and things like that.
Simple, until I heard that story I had no idea of who Duran was outside the ring. I loved his fights, but I did not like Duran himself in the 70’s and 80’s.
The De Jesus deathbed story changed that.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 29 May 2021, 11:32
by Delta Jay
ironbeard wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 11:20
Delta Jay wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 11:02
ironbeard wrote: ↑28 May 2021, 16:10
I loved to watch Esteban De Jesus box. He gave Duran all that he could handle.
The story about Duran visiting De Jesus on his deathbed is moving, and it sheds an entirely different light on the Panamanian ATG.
What do you mean when you say different light? He was a terror in the ring but I very often hear stories or read things about how nice he was outside of it. Stories about giving people he’d never met his jacket and things like that.
Simple, until I heard that story I had no idea of who Duran was outside the ring. I loved his fights, but I did not like Duran himself in the 70’s and 80’s.
The De Jesus deathbed story changed that.
In a book called Four Kings by George Kimball (sure everyone on this board has read it) the Duran bits are my favourites. He’s definitely the most three dimensional of the fighters covered.
Did he just seem like a nasty guy back then?
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 29 May 2021, 11:42
by ironbeard
Delta Jay wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 11:32
ironbeard wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 11:20
Delta Jay wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 11:02
What do you mean when you say different light? He was a terror in the ring but I very often hear stories or read things about how nice he was outside of it. Stories about giving people he’d never met his jacket and things like that.
Simple, until I heard that story I had no idea of who Duran was outside the ring. I loved his fights, but I did not like Duran himself in the 70’s and 80’s.
The De Jesus deathbed story changed that.
In a book called Four Kings by George Kimball (sure everyone on this board has read it) the Duran bits are my favourites. He’s definitely the most three dimensional of the fighters covered.
Did he just seem like a nasty guy back then?
He came across as a nasty, arrogant bully. But, my view of him was quite limited; superficial.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 29 May 2021, 12:19
by JamesPhilips
Mike Tyson would've beaten Ali because of his left hook
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 29 May 2021, 13:29
by Dioufy
Canelo/Mayweather was a draw.
Valuev beat Haye.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 29 May 2021, 13:38
by JamesPhilips
Dioufy wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 13:29
Canelo/Mayweather was a draw.
Valuev beat Haye.
agree with Valuev.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 02 Jun 2021, 08:45
by Lairdy
Amy of Mike Tyson's top ten opponents, pre-prison, would be would world champions in this era.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 02 Jun 2021, 10:06
by mickey1975
Mike Tyson wouldn't be world champion today and Cus dying and signing for Don King made NO difference. He was always heading to jail.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 02 Jun 2021, 10:32
by JamesPhilips
Joshua is the Lance Armstrong of boxing and prefers men.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 02 Jun 2021, 10:34
by margaret thatcher
that would be painful for someone wouldnt it
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 02 Jun 2021, 17:32
by Cyclops
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 13:38
Dioufy wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 13:29
Canelo/Mayweather was a draw.
Valuev beat Haye.
agree with Valuev.
This is a hipster opinion. Haye outboxed Valuev, it's just that an ancient Holyfield beat Valuev just before with more style and didn't get the decision, just showing the level of Valuev and Haye. So it's the 'hardcore' thing to say that Valuev actually won.
But he didn't. Haye nicked the decision quite clearly. But Holyfield did him with more style and was robbed. I'd love a breakdown on how the big fella beat Haye, because he didn't. What did he win on, ring generalship because Haye was on the back foot throughout? Valuev clearly lost and knew it. The debate is there, but it's pretty weak.
Jim Watt's commentary has a big part to play in the "Valuev won" argument.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 02 Jun 2021, 17:57
by mickey1975
How do you nick a decision quite clearly?
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 02 Jun 2021, 18:07
by Grilling Machine
When it's 90% stalemate.
The feeling seems to be that Haye didn't win it emphatically enough to overcome the sense of the big man just lurching about unperturbed. 12th aside.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 03 Jun 2021, 05:30
by Cyclops
mickey1975 wrote: ↑02 Jun 2021, 17:57
How do you nick a decision quite clearly?
It's a fair criticism. Let me re-phrase it. He stole the decision. Valuev just lurched after him found after round, while Haye jumped about. Valuev probably outlanded him in a couple of rounds, but neither did very much. So Haye 'nicked' most of the rounds.
I don't see the argument for giving it to Valuev? Just because he was the one trying to make a fight out of it? He still got out-landed, and I can only recall him landing jabs.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 03 Jun 2021, 06:28
by Coco
I remember scoring it and had it 5-5 going into the 11th, for me Haye did a bit more in the final 2 rounds winning it 7-5.
On the one hand it was a close fight because neither did much but for example Haye clearly won the last 2 because he did something rather than nothing.
So he didn't win the rounds by much but he still clearly won them.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 03 Jun 2021, 09:31
by JamesPhilips
Cyclops wrote: ↑02 Jun 2021, 17:32
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 13:38
Dioufy wrote: ↑29 May 2021, 13:29
Canelo/Mayweather was a draw.
Valuev beat Haye.
agree with Valuev.
This is a hipster opinion. Haye outboxed Valuev, it's just that an ancient Holyfield beat Valuev just before with more style and didn't get the decision, just showing the level of Valuev and Haye. So it's the 'hardcore' thing to say that Valuev actually won.
But he didn't. Haye nicked the decision quite clearly. But Holyfield did him with more style and was robbed. I'd love a breakdown on how the big fella beat Haye, because he didn't. What did he win on, ring generalship because Haye was on the back foot throughout? Valuev clearly lost and knew it. The debate is there, but it's pretty weak.
Jim Watt's commentary has a big part to play in the "Valuev won" argument.
I watched it live and at the end said Valuve landed 11 punches and Haye 9, though Haye landed the better shot. It was an awful fight. I remember thinking Valuev won closely. But its not a fight I chose to think about. It was awful.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 03 Jun 2021, 09:47
by dookus
Dunno if it's particularly unpopular, but Sky boxing was way better under Camp Eddie than during Wazza's WBU-ridden years of shīt
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 03 Jun 2021, 11:56
by JamesPhilips
dookus wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 09:47
Dunno if it's particularly unpopular, but Sky boxing was way better under Camp Eddie than during Wazza's WBU-ridden years of shīt
Fight wise Good point. But Eddie brought in PPV era.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 03 Jun 2021, 12:23
by mickey1975
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 11:56
dookus wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 09:47
Dunno if it's particularly unpopular, but Sky boxing was way better under Camp Eddie than during Wazza's WBU-ridden years of shīt
Fight wise Good point. But Eddie brought in PPV era.
Frank did, 1996. Good PPV. Double headers. Eddie brought in PPV part 2, mainly utter shite.
Re: Unpopular opinions
Posted: 03 Jun 2021, 12:30
by maverick23
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 11:56
dookus wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 09:47
Dunno if it's particularly unpopular, but Sky boxing was way better under Camp Eddie than during Wazza's WBU-ridden years of shīt
Fight wise Good point. But Eddie brought in PPV era.
He brought in one or two more a year than there were before I think. In 2009/10/11 there were 4/4/3 Sky boxing PPVs respectively and, bar the last Sky PPV which was clearly a cash grab, I’d say the overall PPV has been better in the last 10 years than the previous 10.
Khan/Prescott headlined a PPV with a poor undercard. Khan/Kotelnik on PPV too and then the bigger heavyweight fights (Haye vs Harrison, Valuev, Ruiz) pretty much all had nothing much on the undercards.