Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 10 Feb 2010, 17:51
Help yourself, Rick. Thanks for the 'heads up'.Rick Farris wrote:bennie wrote:As ‘little’ David Haye nears his inevitable showdowns with the ‘big’ Klitschkos, Vitali and Wladimir, the idiotic internet view of today’s heavyweights rears its ugly head again on seemingly every boxing forum, on seemingly every heavyweight thread. Filibusters tell you today’s heavyweights are better than yesterday’s because they are so much bigger - and so much bigger is surely so much better.
What are they saying!
Jack Dempsey dished out the worst beating in the entire history of boxing to a giant of a man who could fight by the name of Jess Willard (the gigantic Luis Firpo also has good cause to remember Dempsey); Haye, quick and hungry, if not as ferocious as Dempsey, toyed with the biggest and heaviest ‘world’ heavyweight champion of all time just two months ago; Chris Byrd, a stinking, non-punching southpaw beaten by Joe Calzaghe in the amateurs, made millions courtesy of a dire modern heavyweight scene and then dropped back down again - to middleweight. John L. Gardner, no bigger than Haye, refused to take a backward step and came desperately close to a shot at Muhammad Ali; Danny McAlinden knocked out Richard Dunn in one round, who did get a shot at Ali.
Some posters, on other forums, actually believe that because someone like Eric “Butterbean” Esch scales 300 pounds he must be better than Haye, Byrd, Gardner, McAlinden, Tommy Burns, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, Joe Frazier and even Dempsey – smaller, lighter heavies - although they usually spare Mike Tyson in their ludicrous comparisons. “Butterbean”, coincidentally, was taken apart in under a round by a half-blind bloke from Walthamstow on these shores recently. (On that note, Dempsey flattened two would-be muggers at the age of 78).
At least old-school boxing men, who do know their boxing, know heavyweight boxing has sadly regressed through the decades. Size and strength fail to compensate for lack of technical skill or natural power amongst today’s big men. Ask yourself this, do the huge Klitschkos possess natural power, real ‘snap’ in their work, or do they just possess outstanding fitness as they poke away at fat, puffing barrels until those barrels run dry? Vitali certainly jabbed the life out of Sam Peter and Danny Williams before the corner, the doctor, did their respective jobs. Wladimir is probably more aggressive, more in the face of his opponents, but seemingly needs to drop men several times before his arm is raised. His power appears to be that of the ‘clumping’ variety.
Think of Primo Carnera.
However, Haye can naturally ‘crack’ as he showed when he dropped New York’s Monte Barrett five times on a heady night in London in November 2008 in his heavyweight debut, winning in the fifth round, and when he flattened French bull Jean-Marc Mormeck in Paris before that to wrest the undisputed world cruiserweight title. Moreover, Haye is the ideal size for a heavyweight at 6ft 3ins, in my opinion, the ideal weight at 215 pounds.
Think of Muhammad Ali.
The charismatic, self-assured, smart-talking Londoner poses the biggest threat to to Vitali since Lennox Lewis, another British fighter, stopped Klitschko on cuts back in 2003 - and Vitali is the better of the two brothers (and the braver, so he will fight Haye first). Like Haye, he seems a likeable fella’ but acted disgracefully when pulled out of the Lewis fight due to two horrendous cuts (caused by punches), jumping off his stool in a manner which petrified even his cutsman, the gentlemanly Joe Souza, as he tried to get at Lewis in front of a crowd of 16,000, only just held back by Wladimir, who probably prevented a riot.
Vitali was out of control, totally, and I believe his actions resulted in the millionaire Lewis, after making Klitschko wait and wait and wait (ha ha!), walking out of the sport, something which has bugged Vitali ever since. You reap what you sow, Vitali. (Souza, incidentally, agreed with the stoppage and said so to the press a day later, Klitschko firmly out of earshot.)
Nevertheless, Vitali’s boxing record of 39-2 (37) is excellent. He has lost only to Lewis and to that little man Byrd, on another injury stoppage, and while he comes off a terrible fight with Kevin “Queenpin” Johnson (a drab points win), he is better than he showed that night as he showed when he emerged from a retirement lasting FOUR years in 2008 to drub Nigeria’s Peter for the WBC heavyweight title. It were almost like he had never been away.
Once upon a boxing time, nobody could emerge from a hiatus of four years and waltz their way to a world title - nobody - but boxing foundations are horribly debunked, these days, with fighters winning world titles like dog treats, jumping up and down divisions like Georges Carpentier, switching promoters, managers and trainers like condoms, and pulling out of big fights at the last minute because they have locked themselves “in” (a famous excuse once uttered by Birmingham’s Lloyd Hibbert).
Man, the sport has changed!
Nevertheless, the still-improving Haye, nine years younger than Vitali at 29 and with a record of 23-1 (21), can bring back the days when fighters, heavyweight fighters, knew about balance, skill and power, about the kind of power sorely lacking in those lumbering arm-puncher Klitschkos, who make Frank Bruno look supple. Class always tells, not weight.
Haye is a different man from the one who punched himself out spectacularly against Bolton’s Carl Thompson at cruiserweight back in 2004 for his only setback. Haye still punches up from his toes but mixes up his heavy shots nowadays with jabs and sharp left hooks. He has a longer reach than one would imagine at 78 inches - just two inches shorter than the 6ft 7½ins Vitali’s. His right hand is thunderous.
Oh yes, he will reach Vitali all right, just as he reached the Jurassic Valuev - all seven foot of the Russian - although Vitali has never been down as a fighter (Birmingham’s Pele Reid once knocked him out with a kick, apparently). For me, this gives Haye a golden opportunity to make a real statement as he floors the WBC champion on the way to a stoppage, on the way to undisputed status in the heavyweight ranks (at last), on the way to superstardom.
First, he must defend the WBA heavyweight title he won from Valuev against America’s John Ruiz in Manchester on April 3. Pave the way, David, blow Ruiz away.
Cheers Bennie!
Bennie, what a great post! If you don't mind, I'd like to copy it an post it on a few other forums.
As far as David Haye is concerned, he need not win one more fight in his career and I will still respect him for eliminating the biggest of the big Eastern European bums. I fully expect him to do likewise to the dreadful K brothers.
He is not intimidated by size, and size alone is never enough to handle a decent fighter with balls.
We know that the K Bros, when in trouble, will quickly fly (or fall) south.
I hope David keeps his head on straight because he has what it takes to bring all of the titles back to Great Britain.
I don't think Haye is the best I've ever seen, but he certainly has the best chance of stripping the weak chinned, and faint hearted Lurch brothers of their place in boxing.
John Ruiz? A good tune-up, nothing more.
You know that Haye is going to play Hell getting either one of the "Weakheart" boys into the ring.
And when (or if) he does, the fight will surely be held in Germany (today's "Land of the Giants").
No problem with that, in fact, it might be a nice touch for Davey to execute Goliath on his home turf.
Today, America has nothing to offer the heavyweight division. We are simply spectators in the overall scope of heavyweight boxing. Sad, but true.
-Rick Farris
