Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Covering up for 12 rounds and then walking around the ring smiling when it's over? I'm glad I was watching TCM movies. White Heat with Jimmy Cagney.

[kikibalt]

Covering up for 12 rounds and then walking around the ring smiling when it's over? I'm glad I was watching TCM movies. White Heat with Jimmy Cagney.

I was doing the same thing Rog...

[Randyman]

ARLINGTON, TX - MARCH 13: (R-L) Manny Pacquiao of the Philippines throws a left to the body of Joshua Clottey of Ghana during the WBO welterweight title fight at Cowboys Stadium on March 13, 2010 in Arlington, Texas. Pacquiao defeated Clottey by unanimous decision. (Photo by Tom Pennington/Getty Images)


Starting today and for the rest of his life Joshua Clottey will be asking himself “Why didn‘t I? Why didn’t I listen to my corner man. Why didn’t I get mad? Why didn’t I throw more punches? Why didn’t I even Friggin try? He will relive the moment and create scenarios where he actually fights back and then he will open his eyes and finds that nothing has changed. As is usually the case in boxing he will find that he has no one to blame but himself. Oh, he might try. He’ll fire this guy or that guy but still, but nothing will have changed. It will always come down to this: Clottey never took a risk, never took a chance on victory, and therein lies the rub-you have to actually throw punches to win a fight.

The most frustrating thing about Saturday night’s fight between Manny Pacquiao and Joshua Clottey is that he was actually capable of winning this fight and if not win, at least capable of making a great fight. It comes down to this: It’s not that he couldn’t he just wouldn’t. I hope he can live with that.

I think I am finally prepared to place Manny Pacquiao within the Pantheon of Boxing’s greats. He deserves to be mentioned with Boxing’s greatests: with the Duran’s, the Chavez’, the Armstrong’s, the Sugars, both Robinson and Leonard. He truly is a phenomenal fighter. He is a timeless warrior and could have fought in any era. If that wasn’t plain for me to see before it is plainly visible to me today.

Pacquiao had before him a legitimately strong welterweight and a worthy challenger. A former champion that was still in the mix. Pacquiao reduced him to a man willing just to survive. Clottey had a tight defense, a sort of peek-a-boo, middle of the ring rope-a-dope. It took Manny a few rounds to figure him out. When he did he turned on the Pacquiao machine and went to work on Clottey’s body, finding the right angle and landing the right hand just below the rib cage. As Teddy Atlas likes to say “he was collecting interest, he was making an investment in his future” . Pacquiao never stopped throwing punches and while Clottey did have a few moments where he could actually break through Pacquiao’s defense, he was just too timid or overwhelmed, by the amount of punches being thrown at him.

The fight was a great showcase for Pacquiao in everyway. It was a chance to see a Zen Master at work. That alone was (more or less) worth the money, but it was not a great fight. For that you need two willing participants. My hope? My hope is that on May 1 of this year Sugar Shane Mosley knocks out Floyd Mayweather Jr in spectacular fashion thereby setting up a fight with Manny Pacquiao. Manny and Shane are cut from the same cloth. What stirs these two warriors is not the money. It’s the love of the game and that’s where true greatness lies.

[dagosd2000]

Jimmy Cagney

[dagosd2000]

There's something funny going on with Pacquiao with him not wanting to take the Olympic type drug test. It threw a monkey wrench with the last negotiations with Mayweather. This issue with the testing is going to be on the table again.

Manny is very popular. Mayweather is in good with the "brothers",but the rest of the world doesn't like him much. But Mayweather is right. If Manny has nothing to hide,TAKE THE TEST! This fight may never take place only because Manny doesn't want to take the Olympic type test.This is the state of the art exam for testing. I figure Mayweathers camp heard something. Maybe something leaked out. I don't blame him.

If it turns out that Manny is using something,I might just as well go to the wrestling matches.

[THEHAMMER321]

I was thinking about fighters who have moved up in weight and it seems to me that in the last 20 years or so that fighters are moving up more successfully than ever, I can remember when Alexis Arguello moved up to challenge Aaron Pryor and before the fight people were talking about how what a great feat if Arguello could win his 4th world title but since then I can think of many fighters who have moved up many divisions with not much trouble,don't wanna point the dirty finger at anyone but are fighters using steroids ?

[THEHAMMER321]

Hi Frank how you feel this morning

[kikibalt]

There's something funny going on with Pacquiao with him not wanting to take the Olympic type drug test. It threw a monkey wrench with the last negotiations with Mayweather. This issue with the testing is going to be on the table again.

Manny is very popular. Mayweather is in good with the "brothers",but the rest of the world doesn't like him much. But Mayweather is right. If Manny has nothing to hide,TAKE THE TEST! This fight may never take place only because Manny doesn't want to take the Olympic type test.This is the state of the art exam for testing. I figure Mayweathers camp heard something. Maybe something leaked out. I don't blame him.

If it turns out that Manny is using something,I might just as well go to the wrestling matches.

I have to disagree with you Rog, who the hell made PBF God that he can demand Pac or anyother fighter for that matter to take any kind of test, that what the boxing commission's are for, thats their job, not PBF's, sorry....

[kikibalt]

Hi Frank how you feel this morning

Not bad at the moment...

[raylawpc]

There's something funny going on with Pacquiao with him not wanting to take the Olympic type drug test. It threw a monkey wrench with the last negotiations with Mayweather. This issue with the testing is going to be on the table again.

Manny is very popular. Mayweather is in good with the "brothers",but the rest of the world doesn't like him much. But Mayweather is right. If Manny has nothing to hide,TAKE THE TEST! This fight may never take place only because Manny doesn't want to take the Olympic type test.This is the state of the art exam for testing. I figure Mayweathers camp heard something. Maybe something leaked out. I don't blame him.

If it turns out that Manny is using something,I might just as well go to the wrestling matches.

I have to disagree with you Rog, who the hell made PBF God that he can demand Pac or anyother fighter for that matter to take any kind of test, that what the boxing commission's are for, thats their job, not PBF's, sorry....

As they used to say back in the day, "Right on!"

[dagosd2000]

The point I want to make is that the commisions are not using the testing that can detect EPO(blood doping). The Olympic test can catch it in an athlete. Oxygenated blood can be injected into an athlete's blood just prior to his performance. Because of all the scandal with Olympic athletes,the Olympic Commission is using testing that can detect if EPO is being used in an athlete. I wish boxing commissions would look into it.

[raylawpc]

Thanks guys. my mother has finally realized that she can't live alone anymore, nor can she be making the long drives from the high desert anymore. She'll be putting the house for sale. I'm glad. I worry about her a lot. Again, thanks for you concern.

Randy

Randy, for what it's worth, when my Dad moved into the nursing home, my step-mother moved into an "independent living" apartment attached to the nursing home at which my Dad received care. Of course, she was not happy because she felt like she was giving up her independence - but she did it to be close to Dad. Today, we couldn't dynamite her out of there. She loves it! She has made friends with ladies her own age, and is able to participate in all the activities that she wants at the retirement center. Even though it is "independent living," the staff checks on her every day, makes sure she is taking her medicine, bring her lunch every day, and cleans her apartment once or twice a week. They also transport her to places around town. We don't have to worry about her.

The transition is sometimes rough because they are old, fearful, and don't know what to expect, but I can't think of a single client I have had who ultimately regretted moving into some klind of retirement center when the time came. They piss and moan sometimes at first, but all of them love it after they get settled.

[raylawpc]

The point I want to make is that the commisions are not using the testing that can detect EPO(blood doping). The Olympic test can catch it in an athlete. Oxygenated blood can be injected into an athlete's blood just prior to his performance. Because of all the scandal with Olympic athletes,the Olympic Commission is using testing that can detect if EPO is being used in an athlete. I wish boxing commissions would look into it.

But that's not the issue - the issue is that Pac was willing to follow the rules of the governing body at the location for the fight, but Mayweather wanted something more. He wasn't concerned that Pac was using drugs - he's trying to use it as a way to get into Pac's head.

Should boxing commissions use more extensive drug testing? Maybe.

Should Pac knuckle under to Mayweather in Maywealther's little game of oneupsmanship? Hell no.

[kikibalt]

The point I want to make is that the commisions are not using the testing that can detect EPO(blood doping). The Olympic test can catch it in an athlete. Oxygenated blood can be injected into an athlete's blood just prior to his performance. Because of all the scandal with Olympic athletes,the Olympic Commission is using testing that can detect if EPO is being used in an athlete. I wish boxing commissions would look into it.

Well yes, but until the commish starts using that test, nobody has the right to demand to that their opponent takes it....beside Olympic testing is for amateur athletes...

[kikibalt]

The point I want to make is that the commisions are not using the testing that can detect EPO(blood doping). The Olympic test can catch it in an athlete. Oxygenated blood can be injected into an athlete's blood just prior to his performance. Because of all the scandal with Olympic athletes,the Olympic Commission is using testing that can detect if EPO is being used in an athlete. I wish boxing commissions would look into it.

But that's not the issue - the issue is that Pac was willing to follow the rules of the governing body at the location for the fight, but Mayweather wanted something more. He wasn't concerned that Pac was using drugs - he's trying to use it as a way to get into Pac's head.

Should boxing commissions use more extensive drug testing? Maybe.

Should Pac knuckle under to Mayweather in Maywealther's little game of one upsmanship? Hell no.

[THEHAMMER321]

Hey guys my name is ''pretty boy Floyd Maeweather'' and everybody knows the world owes me a living and i am also the greatest fighter of all time and anybody who says otherwise is a bigot

[Randyman]

Jimmy Cagney

Great Job Rog. James Cagney is one of my favorite all time old school actors. Cagney and Humphrey Bogart together were pure magic. Today Robert DeNiro and Joe Pesci are the dynamic duo of the gangster movies and they deserve to be ranked among the best but Cagney and Bogart were the first and the best.

Cagney was such an honest actor. I really believe that what we saw in the movies was the real James Cagney. His characters had a boldness and recklessness that made you root for him even when he was the bad guy. His characters took shit from no one and he faced everyone head on. He was the epitome of a 20’s or 30’s gangster.

His movies, while somewhat dated , still hold up well. Think of all the great movies he was in; City for Conquest, The Irish in Us, Angels with dirty Faces, The Roaring Twenties, Yankee Doodle Dandy (for which he won an Oscar), White Heat and so many more.

Both City for Conquest and The Irish in Us were about boxing. I always thought that Cagney might have made a good fighter in real life. He seemed to have the right stuff, who knows?

He always said that he was a “Hoofer” (dancer) first. That was his first love. I heard him in an interview many years ago saying he never had an acting lesson. He had no real secret or advice about acting. He said when the cameras were rolling he just pretended. No bull sh*t about James Cagney.

[Randyman]

Thanks guys. my mother has finally realized that she can't live alone anymore, nor can she be making the long drives from the high desert anymore. She'll be putting the house for sale. I'm glad. I worry about her a lot. Again, thanks for you concern.

Randy

Randy, for what it's worth, when my Dad moved into the nursing home, my step-mother moved into an "independent living" apartment attached to the nursing home at which my Dad received care. Of course, she was not happy because she felt like she was giving up her independence - but she did it to be close to Dad. Today, we couldn't dynamite her out of there. She loves it! She has made friends with ladies her own age, and is able to participate in all the activities that she wants at the retirement center. Even though it is "independent living," the staff checks on her every day, makes sure she is taking her medicine, bring her lunch every day, and cleans her apartment once or twice a week. They also transport her to places around town. We don't have to worry about her.

The transition is sometimes rough because they are old, fearful, and don't know what to expect, but I can't think of a single client I have had who ultimately regretted moving into some klind of retirement center when the time came. They piss and moan sometimes at first, but all of them love it after they get settled.

Thanks Tom, an "Independent Living" facilities is what we will be looking at. My mother is still capable but it is time. It has been hard on us worrying about her and not being near her on a regular basis.

Randy

[Randyman]

Thanks guys. my mother has finally realized that she can't live alone anymore, nor can she be making the long drives from the high desert anymore. She'll be putting the house for sale. I'm glad. I worry about her a lot. Again, thanks for you concern.

Randy

Randy, it's always a rough decision to make. I had to make the decision for my Dad back in 2004. I can assure you he wouldn't be knocking about today if he was living alone, so the decision is sound. I'm glad she's feling better, dude.

Scartissue

Thanks Dan

[Randyman]

The point I want to make is that the commisions are not using the testing that can detect EPO(blood doping). The Olympic test can catch it in an athlete. Oxygenated blood can be injected into an athlete's blood just prior to his performance. Because of all the scandal with Olympic athletes,the Olympic Commission is using testing that can detect if EPO is being used in an athlete. I wish boxing commissions would look into it.

But that's not the issue - the issue is that Pac was willing to follow the rules of the governing body at the location for the fight, but Mayweather wanted something more. He wasn't concerned that Pac was using drugs - he's trying to use it as a way to get into Pac's head.

Should boxing commissions use more extensive drug testing? Maybe.

Should Pac knuckle under to Mayweather in Maywealther's little game of oneupsmanship? Hell no.

Put like that I can see your point. However, maybe it is time to change the rules. Steroids and other drugs are becoming more prevalent in almost every sport. It's sign of the times but maybe a change is needed.

While I don't think one fighter should cave in to another I do think that a fighter has a right to make some demands and conditions as part of the negotiation process when putting a fight contract together. Things like the ring size, type of gloves or even who will referee the fight are already part of the process. Drug testing more or less seems to fall into that category. The opponent is always free to object as Pacquiao did.

Randy

[raylawpc]

The point I want to make is that the commisions are not using the testing that can detect EPO(blood doping). The Olympic test can catch it in an athlete. Oxygenated blood can be injected into an athlete's blood just prior to his performance. Because of all the scandal with Olympic athletes,the Olympic Commission is using testing that can detect if EPO is being used in an athlete. I wish boxing commissions would look into it.

But that's not the issue - the issue is that Pac was willing to follow the rules of the governing body at the location for the fight, but Mayweather wanted something more. He wasn't concerned that Pac was using drugs - he's trying to use it as a way to get into Pac's head.

Should boxing commissions use more extensive drug testing? Maybe.

Should Pac knuckle under to Mayweather in Maywealther's little game of oneupsmanship? Hell no.

Put like that I can see your point. However, maybe it is time to change the rules. Steroids and other drugs are becoming more prevalent in almost every sport. It's sign of the times but maybe a change is needed.

While I don't think one fighter should cave in to another I do think that a fighter has a right to make some demands and conditions as part of the negotiation process when putting a fight contract together. Things like the ring size, type of gloves or even who will referee the fight are already part of the process. Drug testing more or less seems to fall into that category. The opponent is always free to object as Pacquiao did.

Randy

I don't disagree with anything that you wrote, Randy. I don't think Mayweather really had any concerns about Pac using drugs. I think he decided to take that negotiation point public as a means of getting into Pac's head and, in that situation, Pac was fully justified in telling him what he could do and where he could go with the idea.

Mayweather strikes me as the type of guy who would shout it from the roof tops if he had even a scintilla of evidence that Pac used performance enhancing drugs. The fact he didn't shows it was all a head game with him.

[raylawpc]

Thanks guys. my mother has finally realized that she can't live alone anymore, nor can she be making the long drives from the high desert anymore. She'll be putting the house for sale. I'm glad. I worry about her a lot. Again, thanks for you concern.

Randy

Randy, for what it's worth, when my Dad moved into the nursing home, my step-mother moved into an "independent living" apartment attached to the nursing home at which my Dad received care. Of course, she was not happy because she felt like she was giving up her independence - but she did it to be close to Dad. Today, we couldn't dynamite her out of there. She loves it! She has made friends with ladies her own age, and is able to participate in all the activities that she wants at the retirement center. Even though it is "independent living," the staff checks on her every day, makes sure she is taking her medicine, bring her lunch every day, and cleans her apartment once or twice a week. They also transport her to places around town. We don't have to worry about her.

The transition is sometimes rough because they are old, fearful, and don't know what to expect, but I can't think of a single client I have had who ultimately regretted moving into some klind of retirement center when the time came. They piss and moan sometimes at first, but all of them love it after they get settled.

Thanks Tom, an "Independent Living" facilities is what we will be looking at. My mother is still capable but it is time. It has been hard on us worrying about her and not being near her on a regular basis.

Randy

That's good news, Randy! It's great having my step-mom in such a facility. I promised my Dad before he died that I would always take care of her, and having her in a nice independent living facility takes a load off my mind, especially since I live four hours away and can't personally check on her every day.

[Randyman]

But that's not the issue - the issue is that Pac was willing to follow the rules of the governing body at the location for the fight, but Mayweather wanted something more. He wasn't concerned that Pac was using drugs - he's trying to use it as a way to get into Pac's head.

Should boxing commissions use more extensive drug testing? Maybe.

Should Pac knuckle under to Mayweather in Maywealther's little game of oneupsmanship? Hell no.

Put like that I can see your point. However, maybe it is time to change the rules. Steroids and other drugs are becoming more prevalent in almost every sport. It's sign of the times but maybe a change is needed.

While I don't think one fighter should cave in to another I do think that a fighter has a right to make some demands and conditions as part of the negotiation process when putting a fight contract together. Things like the ring size, type of gloves or even who will referee the fight are already part of the process. Drug testing more or less seems to fall into that category. The opponent is always free to object as Pacquiao did.

Randy

I don't disagree with anything that you wrote, Randy. I don't think Mayweather really had any concerns about Pac using drugs. I think he decided to take that negotiation point public as a means of getting into Pac's head and, in that situation, Pac was fully justified in telling him what he could do and where he could go with the idea.

Mayweather strikes me as the type of guy who would shout it from the roof tops if he had even a scintilla of evidence that Pac used performance enhancing drugs. The fact he didn't shows it was all a head game with him.

I 100% agree with you on that Tom. I know this was a unique situation and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when something I believe, however remotely, comes close to agreeing with Mayweather. I do realize what Mayweather was trying to accomplish. I was thinking more in the overall sense but I could care less about what Mayweather wants.

Randy

[Randyman]

Randy, for what it's worth, when my Dad moved into the nursing home, my step-mother moved into an "independent living" apartment attached to the nursing home at which my Dad received care. Of course, she was not happy because she felt like she was giving up her independence - but she did it to be close to Dad. Today, we couldn't dynamite her out of there. She loves it! She has made friends with ladies her own age, and is able to participate in all the activities that she wants at the retirement center. Even though it is "independent living," the staff checks on her every day, makes sure she is taking her medicine, bring her lunch every day, and cleans her apartment once or twice a week. They also transport her to places around town. We don't have to worry about her.

The transition is sometimes rough because they are old, fearful, and don't know what to expect, but I can't think of a single client I have had who ultimately regretted moving into some klind of retirement center when the time came. They piss and moan sometimes at first, but all of them love it after they get settled.

Thanks Tom, an "Independent Living" facilities is what we will be looking at. My mother is still capable but it is time. It has been hard on us worrying about her and not being near her on a regular basis.

Randy

That's good news, Randy! It's great having my step-mom in such a facility. I promised my Dad before he died that I would always take care of her, and having her in a nice independent living facility takes a load off my mind, especially since I live four hours away and can't personally check on her every day.

My condolences again on your dad. Your father and step mom are lucky to have a son that can be trusted with such a responsibility. You're a good son Tom.

Randy

[kikibalt]

What a beautiful day it has been, not a cloud in the sky, being sitting outside most of the day...