Classic American West Coast Boxing

Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

kikibalt wrote:Paulino's question about Ruben, reminded me of a guy Tony fought twice, Raul Bencomo, in the first fight Tony ko's Bencomo in 5 rounds, in the second fight Tony ko's Bencomo in the second round, he was out cold in both fights, in the dressing room after the second fight, Jimmy Montoya who was working with Bencomo told him "Don't worry I'll get you another fight with Baltazar", Bencomo told Jimmy "Fu*k you, you fight him, the son of a bitch is crazy, he is trying to kill me" at least Bencomo knew who the enemy was....LOL!!
:lol:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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"I wuz robbed!" . . .

Paulino does bring up an interesting fact. Some boxers don't believe they have ever been beaten.
I know this, many have been robbed, and we've all seen bad decisions.

I will say this for Ruben Navarro, he didn't make any unrealistic comments regarding his second loss to Rodolfo Gonzalez, for the WBC Lightweight title. Here is a direct quote from Navarro following his loss:

"I worked my ass off for this fight, but I just couldn't do anything. I don't know what the hell went wrong. He didn't hurt me but he humiliated me. He's 1000 percent improved since he won the title and I don't see anyone beating him for a few years." -Ruben Navarro


-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by THEHAMMER321 »

Rick Farris wrote:"I wuz robbed!" . . .

Paulino does bring up an interesting fact. Some boxers don't believe they have ever been beaten.
I know this, many have been robbed, and we've all seen bad decisions.

I will say this for Ruben Navarro, he didn't make any unrealistic comments regarding his second loss to Rodolfo Gonzalez, for the WBC Lightweight title. Here is a direct quote from Navarro following his loss:

"I worked my ass off for this fight, but I just couldn't do anything. I don't know what the hell went wrong. He didn't hurt me but he humiliated me. He's 1000 percent improved since he won the title and I don't see anyone beating him for a few years." -Ruben Navarro


-Rick Farris
Here is another thing fighters a lot of times praise the guys they beat ''he was the best fighter I ever fought'' and then to the guys they lose to '' he was nothing special I beat better fighters than him before'' maybe sometimes true but a lot more kidding themselves
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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THEHAMMER321 wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:"I wuz robbed!" . . .

Paulino does bring up an interesting fact. Some boxers don't believe they have ever been beaten.
I know this, many have been robbed, and we've all seen bad decisions.

I will say this for Ruben Navarro, he didn't make any unrealistic comments regarding his second loss to Rodolfo Gonzalez, for the WBC Lightweight title. Here is a direct quote from Navarro following his loss:

"I worked my ass off for this fight, but I just couldn't do anything. I don't know what the hell went wrong. He didn't hurt me but he humiliated me. He's 1000 percent improved since he won the title and I don't see anyone beating him for a few years." -Ruben Navarro


-Rick Farris
Here is another thing fighters a lot of times praise the guys they beat ''he was the best fighter I ever fought'' and then to the guys they lose to '' he was nothing special I beat better fighters than him before'' :lol:
I know what you mean. Think of the wars Marvin Johnson was in. Saad Muhammad (twice), Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Michael Spinks, Eddie Davis, Leslie Stewart, Mate Parlov, etc. He says Victor Galindez was the best he fought. Now, taking this with a grain of salt, I believe Victor Galindez was indeed the best fighter he fought, but not that version of Galindez. Victor was totally washed up at that point. The Galindez of '74-'76 would have eaten him alive. But allow him his opinion.

Scartissue
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

scartissue wrote:
THEHAMMER321 wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:"I wuz robbed!" . . .

Paulino does bring up an interesting fact. Some boxers don't believe they have ever been beaten.
I know this, many have been robbed, and we've all seen bad decisions.

I will say this for Ruben Navarro, he didn't make any unrealistic comments regarding his second loss to Rodolfo Gonzalez, for the WBC Lightweight title. Here is a direct quote from Navarro following his loss:

"I worked my ass off for this fight, but I just couldn't do anything. I don't know what the hell went wrong. He didn't hurt me but he humiliated me. He's 1000 percent improved since he won the title and I don't see anyone beating him for a few years." -Ruben Navarro


-Rick Farris
Here is another thing fighters a lot of times praise the guys they beat ''he was the best fighter I ever fought'' and then to the guys they lose to '' he was nothing special I beat better fighters than him before'' :lol:
I know what you mean. Think of the wars Marvin Johnson was in. Saad Muhammad (twice), Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Michael Spinks, Eddie Davis, Leslie Stewart, Mate Parlov, etc. He says Victor Galindez was the best he fought. Now, taking this with a grain of salt, I believe Victor Galindez was indeed the best fighter he fought, but not that version of Galindez. Victor was totally washed up at that point. The Galindez of '74-'76 would have eaten him alive. But allow him his opinion.

Scartissue
The idea behind that is: when you praise the guy you just fought as one of the best fighters in the world then by default you are the greatest. Speaking of Ali I think he said that about everyone he fought, though he really did fight some great ones.

Randy
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Rick Farris wrote:Former WBHOF Vice-President, Julian Eget, passed away yesterday.
Sorry to hear about his passing. Mu condolences.

randy
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

THEHAMMER321 wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:"I wuz robbed!" . . .

Paulino does bring up an interesting fact. Some boxers don't believe they have ever been beaten.
I know this, many have been robbed, and we've all seen bad decisions.

I will say this for Ruben Navarro, he didn't make any unrealistic comments regarding his second loss to Rodolfo Gonzalez, for the WBC Lightweight title. Here is a direct quote from Navarro following his loss:

"I worked my ass off for this fight, but I just couldn't do anything. I don't know what the hell went wrong. He didn't hurt me but he humiliated me. He's 1000 percent improved since he won the title and I don't see anyone beating him for a few years." -Ruben Navarro


-Rick Farris
Here is another thing fighters a lot of times praise the guys they beat ''he was the best fighter I ever fought'' and then to the guys they lose to '' he was nothing special I beat better fighters than him before'' maybe sometimes true but a lot more kidding themselves
The one that gets me is when a fighter says with a straight face-that wasn't me in there tonight!! Really well then who the F___ was it? Talk about lying to yourself.

Randy :lol:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

Jaime Escalante has died today. Condolences to his family.

Randy
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Randyman wrote:Jaime Escalante has died today. Condolences to his family.

Randy
Ditto....
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Legendary East L.A. math teacher Jaime Escalante dies at 79
March 30, 2010

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Legendary Garfield High School math teacher Jaime Escalante, who was immortalized in the film "Stand and Deliver," died Tuesday afternoon after battling cancer.

Escalante died at 2:27 p.m. at the home of his son, Jaime Jr., in Roseville, Calif., said actor Edward James Olmos, who portrayed Escalante in the film.

"He was surrounded by his children and grandchildren," said Olmos, who drove Escalante from a Reno hospital Monday night to Roseville.

Olmos said he was notified by the family several minutes after Escalante died.

Escalante, 79, helped turn the math program at the East Los Angeles high school into one of the top programs in the nation.

A full obituary will be published shortly.

-- Robert J. Lopez
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Jaime Escalante dies at 79; math teacher who challenged East L.A. students to 'Stand and Deliver'

He became America's most famous teacher after a 1988 movie portrayed his success at mentoring working-class pupils at Garfield High to pass a rigorous national calculus exam. He died of cancer.

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Jaime Escalante "didn't just teach math. Like all great teachers, he changed lives," said actor Edward James Olmos, who portrayed Escalante in the 1988 film "Stand and Deliver." (Robert Gauthier / Los Angeles Times / November 14, 1998)


By Elaine Woo

Jaime Escalante, the charismatic former East Los Angeles high school teacher who taught the nation that inner-city students could master subjects as demanding as calculus, died Tuesday. He was 79.

The subject of the 1988 film "Stand and Deliver," Escalante died at his son's home in Roseville, Calif., said actor Edward James Olmos, who portrayed the teacher in the film. Escalante had bladder cancer.

"Jaime didn't just teach math. Like all great teachers, he changed lives," Olmos said earlier this month when he organized an appeal for funds to help pay Escalante's mounting medical bills.

Escalante gained national prominence in the aftermath of a 1982 scandal surrounding 14 of his Garfield High School students who passed the Advanced Placement calculus exam only to be accused later of cheating.

The story of their eventual triumph -- and of Escalante's battle to raise standards at a struggling campus of working-class, largely Mexican American students -- became the subject of the movie, which turned the balding, middle-aged Bolivian immigrant into the most famous teacher in America.

Escalante was a maverick who did not get along with many of his public school colleagues, but he mesmerized students with his entertaining style and deep understanding of math. Educators came from around the country to observe him at Garfield, which built one of the largest and most successful Advanced Placement programs in the nation.

"Jaime Escalante has left a deep and enduring legacy in the struggle for academic equity in American education," said Gaston Caperton, former West Virginia governor and president of the College Board, which sponsors the Scholastic Assessment Test and the Advanced Placement exams.

"His passionate belief [was] that all students, when properly prepared and motivated, can succeed at academically demanding course work, no matter what their racial, social or economic background. Because of him, educators everywhere have been forced to revise long-held notions of who can succeed."

Escalante's rise came during an era decried by experts as one of alarming mediocrity in the nation's schools. He pushed for tougher standards and accountability for students and educators, often irritating colleagues and parents along the way with his brusque manner and uncompromising stands.

He was called a traitor for his opposition to bilingual education. He said the hate mail he received for championing Proposition 227, the successful 1998 ballot measure to dismantle bilingual programs in California, was a factor in his decision to retire that year after leaving Garfield and teaching at Hiram Johnson High School in Sacramento for seven years.

He moved back to Bolivia, where he propelled himself into a classroom again, apparently intent on fulfilling a vow to die doing what he knew best -- teach. But he returned frequently to the United States to speak to education groups and continued to ally himself with conservative politics. He considered becoming an education advisor to President George W. Bush, and in 2003 signed on as an education consultant for Arnold Schwarzenegger's gubernatorial campaign in California.

Escalante was born Dec. 31, 1930, in La Paz, Bolivia, and was raised by his mother after his parents, both schoolteachers, split when he was about 9. He attended a well-regarded Jesuit high school, San Calixto, where his quick mind and penchant for mischief often got him into trouble.

After high school he served in the army during a short-lived Bolivian rebellion. Although he had toyed with the idea of attending engineering school in Argentina, he wound up enrolling at the Bolivian state teachers college, Normal Superior. Before he graduated he was teaching at three top-rated Bolivian schools. He also married Fabiola Tapia, a fellow student at the college.

At his wife's urging, Escalante gave up his teaching posts for the promise of a brighter future in the United States for their firstborn, Jaime Jr. (A second son, Fernando, would follow.) With $3,000 in his pocket and little more than "yes" and "no" in his English vocabulary, Escalante flew alone to Los Angeles on Christmas Eve 1963. He was 33.

His first job was mopping floors in a coffee shop across the street from Pasadena City College, where he enrolled in English classes. Within a few months he was promoted to cook, slinging burgers by day and studying for an associate's degree in math and physics by night. That led to a better-paying job as a technician at a Pasadena electronics company, where he became a prized employee. But the classroom still beckoned to the teacher inside him.He earned a scholarship to Cal State Los Angeles to pursue a teaching credential. In the fall of 1974, when he was 43, he took a pay cut to begin teaching at Garfield High at a salary of $13,000.

"My friends said, 'Jaime, you're crazy.' But I wanted to work with young people," he told The Times. "That's more rewarding for me than the money."

When he arrived at the school, he was dismayed to learn he had been assigned to teach the lowest level of math. He grew unhappier still when he discovered how watered-down the math textbooks were -- on a par with fifth-grade work in Bolivia. Faced with unruly students, he began to wish for his old job back.

But Escalante stayed, soon developing a reputation for turning around hard-to-motivate students. By 1978, he had 14 students enrolled in his first AP calculus class. Of the five who survived his stiff homework and attendance demands, only two earned passing scores on the exam.

But in 1980, seven of nine students passed the exam; in 1981, 14 of 15 passed.

In 1982, he had 18 students to prepare for the academic challenge of their young lives.

At his insistence, they studied before school, after school and on Saturdays, with Escalante as coach and cheerleader. Some of them lacked supportive parents, who needed their teenagers to work to help pay bills. Other students had to be persuaded to spend less time on the school band or in athletics. Yet all gradually formed an attachment to calculus and to "Kimo," their nickname for Escalante, inspired by Tonto's nickname for the Lone Ranger, Kemo Sabe.

Escalante was hospitalized twice in the months leading up to the AP exam. He had a heart attack while teaching night school but ignored doctors' orders to rest and was back at Garfield the next day.

Then he disappeared one weekend to have his gallbladder removed. As Washington Post reporter Jay Mathews recounted in his 1988 book, "Escalante: The Best Teacher in America," the hard-driving teacher turned the health problem into another weapon in his bag of tricks. "You burros give me a heart attack," he repeatedly told his students when he returned. "But I come back! I'm still the champ."

The guilt-making mantra was effective. One student said, "If Kimo can do it, we can do it. If he wants to teach us that bad, we can learn."

The Advanced Placement program qualifies students for college credit if they pass the exam with a score of 3 or higher. For many years it was a tool of the elite; the calculus exam, for example, was taken by only about 3% of American high school math students when Escalante revived the program at Garfield in the late 1970s.

In 1982, a record 69 Garfield students were taking AP exams in various subjects, including Spanish and history. Escalante's calculus students took their exam in May under the watchful eye of the school's head counselor.

The results, released over the summer, were stunning: All 18 of his students passed, with seven earning the highest score of 5.

But the good news quickly turned bad.

The Educational Testing Service, which administers the exam, said it had found suspicious similarities in the solutions given on 14 exams. It invalidated those scores.

The action angered the students, who thought the service would not have questioned their scores if they were white. But this was Garfield, a school made up primarily of lower-income Mexican Americans that only a few years earlier had nearly lost its accreditation. "There's a tremendous amount of feeling that the Hispanic is incapable of handling higher math and science," Escalante reflected later in an interview with Newsday.

He, like many in the Garfield community, feared the students were victims of a racist attack, a charge that Educational Testing Service strongly denied. Two of the students told Mathews of the Washington Post that some cheating had occurred, but they later recanted their confessions.

Vindication came in a retest. Of the 14 accused of wrongdoing, 12 took the exam again and passed.

After that, the numbers of Garfield students taking calculus and other Advanced Placement classes soared. By 1987, only four high schools in the country had more students taking and passing the AP calculus exam than Garfield.

Escalante's dramatic success raised public consciousness of what it took to be not just a good teacher but a great one. One of the most astute analyses of his classroom style came from the actor who shadowed him for days before portraying him in "Stand and Deliver."

"He's the most stylized man I've ever come across," Olmos, who received an Oscar nomination for his performance, told the New York Times in 1988. "He had three basic personalities -- teacher, father-friend and street-gang equal -- and he would juggle them, shift in an instant. . . . He's one of the greatest calculated entertainers."

Escalante was the ultimate performer in class, cracking jokes, rendering impressions and using all sorts of props -- from basketballs and wind-up toys to meat cleavers and space-alien dolls -- to explain complex mathematical concepts. Sports analogies abounded. A perfect parabola, for instance, was like a sky-hook by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. "Calculus Does Not Have To Be Made Easy -- It Is Easy Already," read a banner Escalante kept in his classroom.

In 1991, he packed up his bag of tricks and quit Garfield, saying he was fed up with faculty politics and petty jealousies. He headed to Hiram Johnson High with the intention of testing his methods in a new environment.

But in seven years there, he never had more than about 14 calculus students a year and a 75% pass rate, a record he blamed on administrative turnover and cultural differences. At Garfield, where the pass rate was above 90% when he left, his success was aided by a strongly supportive principal, Henry Gradillas, and talented colleagues, including award-winning calculus teacher Ben Jimenez.

Thirty-five years after leaving Bolivia for his journey into teaching fame, Escalante went home. He settled with his wife in her hometown of Cochabamba and became a part-time mathematics professor at the Universidad del Valle, and was still teaching calculus in Bolivia in 2008. He returned to the United States frequently to visit his son and give motivational speeches.

He made his last trip to the U.S. to seek treatment for the cancer that had left him unable to walk or speak above a whisper. This month, as he gave himself over to a Reno clinic’s regimen of pills, teas and ointments, .

Unpopular with fellow teachers, he won few major teaching awards in the United States. He liked to be judged by his results, a concept still resisted by the majority of his profession.

As he faced death, it was still the results that mattered to him -- the young minds he held captive three decades ago who today are engineers, lawyers, doctors, teachers and administrators.

"I had many opportunities in this country, but the best I found in East L.A.," he said in one of his last interviews. "I am proudest of my brilliant students."

Escalante is survived by his wife, his sons and six grandchildren.

[email protected]

Times staff writer Robert J. Lopez contributed to this report.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Randyman wrote:
THEHAMMER321 wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:"I wuz robbed!" . . .

Paulino does bring up an interesting fact. Some boxers don't believe they have ever been beaten.
I know this, many have been robbed, and we've all seen bad decisions.

I will say this for Ruben Navarro, he didn't make any unrealistic comments regarding his second loss to Rodolfo Gonzalez, for the WBC Lightweight title. Here is a direct quote from Navarro following his loss:

"I worked my ass off for this fight, but I just couldn't do anything. I don't know what the hell went wrong. He didn't hurt me but he humiliated me. He's 1000 percent improved since he won the title and I don't see anyone beating him for a few years." -Ruben Navarro


-Rick Farris
Here is another thing fighters a lot of times praise the guys they beat ''he was the best fighter I ever fought'' and then to the guys they lose to '' he was nothing special I beat better fighters than him before'' maybe sometimes true but a lot more kidding themselves
The one that gets me is when a fighter says with a straight face-that wasn't me in there tonight!! Really well then who the F___ was it? Talk about lying to yourself.

Randy :lol:
Good post, Randy. They should quote you on a sign and tack it to the wall of every boxing gym in the country.
That's how things are done today. You come up with a tricky saying, paint it on a sign, post it, and become a modern day genious.
You know, sometimes dementia is not the problem with fighters after a long career. The problem is the perception of reality.
We all give and take, but the need to justify one's existence seems to reflect in the importance they place in bullsh*t.
Sometimes, we are much more than we were. It's all perspective. Excuse the unclear nature of the post, I'm not doing great in expressing myself.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

Image

Today is Cesar Chavez Day, it is also his birthday. Cesar Chavez was an ordinary man that took a stand against injustice. He dedicated his life to improving the working conditions of the migrant farmworker. He remained a humble and hard working man all of his life. He died an extraordinary man. Viva Chavez!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj4ya_Gyq80

http://cafedelao.blogspot.com/2007/09/c ... 31993.html
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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THEHAMMER321 wrote:Just got through reading a story about Curtis ''Hatchetman'' Shepard by Wildhawke11 I have known a little about him before that story like he was the Earnie Shavers of his day and that he went to prison but not much else until now great story on page 600, also who saw Ray ''windmill'' fight I always read that he was a clown in the ring anyway a lot of great stories on this thread :TU:
That story was wrote by a guy called Rocky3 who served time with Curtis i just repeated his story.
By for now buddy
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Wildhawke11 wrote:
THEHAMMER321 wrote:Just got through reading a story about Curtis ''Hatchetman'' Shepard by Wildhawke11 I have known a little about him before that story like he was the Earnie Shavers of his day and that he went to prison but not much else until now great story on page 600, also who saw Ray ''windmill'' fight I always read that he was a clown in the ring anyway a lot of great stories on this thread :TU:
That story was wrote by a guy called Rocky3 who served time with Curtis i just repeated his story.
By for now buddy

Danny is referring to Rocky Alkazoff, one of the CBZ's best writers.
This is one of the best boxing strories I've ever read.

As for Windmill White? I used to know him, but wonder what's become of him?
Ray was a carpenter up in Ventura. Don Fraser might know about him?
Windmill White could embarrass a fighter. He'd often get away with a lot of tricks, and he was awkward.
He was no threat to the best of the era (i.e. Bob Foster), but he could whip a past prime Roger Rouse, etc.
Mike Quarry had ten pain-in-the-ass rounds against Ray White. He told me Windmill bit his shoulder.
Jimmy Dupree was a lost ball in high grass against White at the Santa Monica Civic.
As I posted before, I watched him grab Jerry Quarry with one arm and then pop his face with a behind-the-back punch.
Quarry wasn't amused, he was pissed off. He pushed the smaller White into a corner and dug a hook into his ribs.
Windmill White was taken to the hospital for X-Rays.
In the late 60's, White coached an amateur boxing team up in Santa Paula.
Two of his boxers, brothers Florentino & Refugio Ramirez, were good amateurs and turned pro.


-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

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Photograph by Art Rogers / Los Angeles Times

Nov. 1, 1961: Mickey Cohen reports to court on a murder indictment, accompanied by bail bondsman Abe Phillips, left, and attorney A.L. Wirin, center.
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Randyman »

I'm on my way to the Long Beach Airport to pick up my son Andrew. He'll be visiting for a week. Can't wait to see him.

Randy :box: :DDD
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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Randyman wrote:I'm on my way to the Long Beach Airport to pick up my son Andrew. He'll be visiting for a week. Can't wait to see him.

Randy :box: :DDD
Hey you guys, have a great time with your son.... :TU: :TU:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

kikibalt wrote:
Randyman wrote:I'm on my way to the Long Beach Airport to pick up my son Andrew. He'll be visiting for a week. Can't wait to see him.

Randy :box: :DDD
Hey you guys, have a great time with your son.... :TU: :TU:

:TU:
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Chuck1052 »

The last time that I saw Ray "Windmill" White was when I saw him help set up a ring for amateur boxing exhibitions at Ventura College during the late 1980s or early 1990s. As far as I know, White still lives in Oak View, which is located between Ventura and Ojai.

There was alot of coverage devoted to White in the Ventura Star-Free Press during the time that he was active as a professional boxer.

It is my understanding that Roger Rouse had Alzheimer's Disease at the time that he passed away during the late 1990s. By the way, many people looking at the win-loss records of Rouse and Todd Foster, two boxer from Montana, would think that the latter was much better fighter. But Rouse faced far better competition throughout his career, acquitting himself well during his prime years. In fact, Foster faced very "soft" opposition with a few exceptions during his career.


- Chuck Johnston
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

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John Tate: Unlocking the Legacy

(published at SecondsOut.com)

In the fall of 1979 I was a student at tiny Maryville College in the foothills of the Smoky Mountains. Knoxville was the nearest city of any size, and the only place within a hundred miles or so where we could legally buy beer on a Sunday. On the highway from Maryville, the Knoxville city line appeared at a little bridge that crossed over a small inlet of the Tennessee River. There was a little picnic area on the other side of the inlet that was a classic make-out spot. One Sunday afternoon in late October as I approached the bridge I saw a new sign just behind the official “Welcome to Knoxville” highway marker. A 4’ x 6’ piece of plywood had been painted white and nailed to two large posts. In black neatly hand-painted lettering was the greeting “Welcome to Knoxville,” just like the regular little sign, but underneath were the words, “Home of Big John Tate, Heavyweight Champion of the World.”

While I vaguely remembered Tate’s name from the Olympics, I had no idea he was even fighting professionally, much less fighting for the championship. In the days before cable or internet, news had to be sought out, at least a little bit, and I was busy doing other things—I won’t say I was busy studying, just that I was busy being a college student. But my curiosity was piqued, and some old-fashioned research in the local library proved that sure enough, just like the sign said, Big John Tate was the heavyweight champion of the world (at least according to the World Boxing Association, whatever that meant.)

Seems Muhammad Ali had recently retired from boxing after regaining his title from Leon Spinks, and Tate had defeated Gerrie Coetzee of South Africa in a fight to claim the vacated championship. Larry Holmes had already gained recognition as champion by the World Boxing Council, but the Tate-Coetzee fight represented a direct link to the WBA title relinquished by Ali, thus giving the WBA title more validity in the eyes of the general public. That would change five months later.

Big John’s first defense was held in his adopted hometown of Knoxville, at the huge Stokely Athletic Center on the campus of the University of Tennessee. His opponent was Mike Weaver, a tough fighter with a chiseled physique who had given Larry Holmes all kinds of trouble in a WBC title fight before being stopped by TKO in the 12th round. Unlike Holmes, Tate had little trouble with Weaver—for the first fourteen rounds. In the fifteenth round Weaver landed a right hand to the body followed by a left hook to the chin that forever linked John Tate to a single career-defining moment. He fell flat on his face, and Mike Weaver was the new champion. Within a week of the fight, the proud welcome sign on the highway to Knoxville was unceremoniously moved across the inlet to the make-out spot, where it would live out its years barely noticed by anyone.

Tate was rushed back into the ring just three months later against Trevor Berbick, who would eventually hold the WBA title himself for eight months in 1986 before losing it to a kid named Tyson. Big John was again ahead on points before being knocked out, this time in round nine. And from that moment on he was essentially ignored by the upper echelon of boxing powerbrokers. He was considered damaged goods and no longer well-connected. The boxing journalists proceeded to treat him like a clown, like an inferior boxer who had somehow snuck past a security guard to make funny faces in the spotlight before being discovered and tossed off stage. But Tate didn’t give up. After only a few months off he started headlining club shows in Knoxville and other nearby venues, trying to get back on track. He showed up on ESPN a few times too, but always against modestly skilled journeymen instead of ranked contenders. Success, which had begun in 1976, had suddenly become a distant memory.

The 1976 Olympic boxing team is a legend unto itself, boasting five gold medalists, all of whom also had success as pros: Leo Randolph (119), Howard Davis, Jr. (132), Ray Leonard (139), Michael Spinks (165), and Leon Spinks (178). Charles Mooney won the silver at 119, and John Tate a bronze at heavyweight. Sometimes when that last stat is mentioned—if it is mentioned at all—there is a tendency to hear the word “just” inserted, as in just a bronze medal. This would be unfair in any context, but in this case there should even be an asterisk to denote special circumstances because John Tate had to box Teófilo Stevenson of Cuba in the semi-finals.

Stevenson had won the gold medal and the Val Barker Award at Munich in 1972, he took the gold at the 1974 World Championships, and he had knocked out his first two opponents before meeting Tate in the semifinals. Tate had made the U.S Olympic team as a novice with only a year and a half of ring experience. Knowing his keys to victory were limited, Tate boldly charged after his imposing foe hoping to pressure him into making a mistake, but Stevenson ended the fight in the first round with a picture-perfect right hand to the chin.

Such was his legend that after the ‘76 Olympics there was serious talk about Stevenson making his pro debut against Muhammad Ali for the world title. He stayed on the Cuban “amateur” team instead, and won another gold medal at Moscow in 1980. Three Olympics, three gold medals. Losing to Stevenson for the bronze in 1976 was certainly no reason for Tate to hang his head in shame.

John Tate didn’t have much going for him other than his boxing abilities. Though it wasn’t part of his press package, he was a functioning illiterate, “functioning” referring to his ability to hide his deficiency. Most likely he suffered from learning disabilities that were either not officially diagnosed or simply ignored during his childhood. Either way, his career options were limited to the lowest levels of physical labor. But with boxing he had an occupation for which he was well-suited.

Unlike many “prospects,” Tate wasn’t put in particularly soft at the beginning of his pro career. His fourth fight was against Walter Santemore, who was 7-0 at the time and would go on to a long career as a tough journeyman. But Tate’s next fight is more telling: Eddie “The Animal” Lopez. Not only was Lopez an undefeated prospect with a 10-0 record, but the fight was held at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles—the Animal’s home turf. Tate won a majority decision and remained on track. His next fight was against Lou Esa, a powerful puncher who brought a record of 18-2-1 into the contest. Tate knocked him out in the third. His next six fights were all against experienced professionals, all of whom were trying to put their career in the fast lane by beating an undefeated Olympian, but Tate continued to come out on top.

On June 22, 1978 Big John took a 12-0 record into Madison Square Garden for a ten-rounder against 20-0 Bernardo Mercado of Columbia. He stopped Mercado in the 10th round. Five more victories followed, including a decision over tough Johnny Boudreaux in front of Boudreaux’s home crowd. Then it was Duane Bobick’s turn. Bobick, who had been knocked out by Teófilo Stevenson in the ’72 Olympics, was 48-2 with 42 Knockouts, but the two losses had seriously damaged his standing as a contender. It was a classic crossroads match-up, and Tate knocked Bobick out in the first round.

Now firmly entrenched in the top ten rankings, Tate travelled to South Africa for a date with Kallie Knoetze in a fifteen-round title-eliminator. A tough brawler with a record of 17-2 with 16 knockouts, Knoetze managed to rock Tate a few times but Big John had superior skills and ultimately more effective power. The bout ended in the eighth round with Knoetze sagging against the ropes. The victory earned Tate the opportunity to fight for Ali’s vacated title, and he defeated Gerrie Coetzee handily by decision four months later to claim the laurels. Then came the losses to Weaver and Berbick and his immediate relegation to pretender status.

But John Tate kept trying. He won ten consecutive fights in the three years following the loss to Trevor Berbick, but he was never seriously considered for another title fight. There is no denying that he had experienced two devastating knockouts of the sort that will legitimately tarnish a fighter’s ranking among the champions of the sport. Nevertheless, Tate had stood up to legitimate bombers like Lopez, Knoetze, Coetzee, and Mercado on his way to the title without tasting the canvas, and successfully absorbed more than a few shots from heavyweight punchers in his comeback attempt, too. He had earned another chance at the championship belt.

Larry Holmes dismissed him outright, saying that Tate should permanently retire because the two knockouts suggested a medical problem. But if Holmes really picked his opponents based on humanitarian concerns, he never would have fought Marvis Frazier. The real reason Holmes, a man who was as good with a dollar as he was with his fists, never gave John Tate a title shot is simply because no one ever offered the champion enough money to make it worth his while—and that’s an absolutely acceptable reason. Tate was simply not a significant draw anymore, a result caused by his reputation in the press as much as by his two losses.

If I had let boxing journalists of the day tell me what to think, then I’d be convinced that Big John Tate was a cream cheese champion, a pretender who never belonged in the title picture in the first place. But a little historical perspective tells a different story. Granted, unlike Larry Holmes, Tate never even came close to earning recognition as one of the great heavyweights of all time. But Big John was a courageous fighter who was as honorable in victory as in defeat, and he was a kind-hearted man who squeezed every ounce of available talent from his mind and body to rise to the very top of his sport. His accomplishments more than merit a huge dose of permanent respect to go with that hand-painted sign planted alongside the highway, a sign that might now read, “Welcome to Knoxville, former home to the late Big John Tate, an Honorable Champion and a Good Man.”


© Phil Rice 2009
Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

Chuck1052 wrote:The last time that I saw Ray "Windmill" White was when I saw him help set up a ring for amateur boxing exhibitions at Ventura College during the late 1980s or early 1990s. As far as I know, White still lives in Oak View, which is located between Ventura and Ojai.

There was alot of coverage devoted to White in the Ventura Star-Free Press during the time that he was active as a professional boxer.

It is my understanding that Roger Rouse had Alzheimer's Disease at the time that he passed away during the late 1990s. By the way, many people looking at the win-loss records of Rouse and Todd Foster, two boxer from Montana, would think that the latter was much better fighter. But Rouse faced far better competition throughout his career, acquitting himself well during his prime years. In fact, Foster faced very "soft" opposition with a few exceptions during his career.


- Chuck Johnston
Chuck . . . Windmill White fought (and defeated) a lot of good fighters during his pro career of 60 bouts.
The night he fought Roger Rouse in 1971 at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium, I opened the show in a five-rounder.


-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Rick Farris wrote:
Chuck1052 wrote:The last time that I saw Ray "Windmill" White was when I saw him help set up a ring for amateur boxing exhibitions at Ventura College during the late 1980s or early 1990s. As far as I know, White still lives in Oak View, which is located between Ventura and Ojai.

There was alot of coverage devoted to White in the Ventura Star-Free Press during the time that he was active as a professional boxer.

It is my understanding that Roger Rouse had Alzheimer's Disease at the time that he passed away during the late 1990s. By the way, many people looking at the win-loss records of Rouse and Todd Foster, two boxer from Montana, would think that the latter was much better fighter. But Rouse faced far better competition throughout his career, acquitting himself well during his prime years. In fact, Foster faced very "soft" opposition with a few exceptions during his career.


- Chuck Johnston
Chuck . . . Windmill White fought (and defeated) a lot of good fighters during his pro career of 60 bouts.
The night he fought Roger Rouse in 1971 at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium, I opened the show in a five-rounder.


-Rick Farris
White beat a very good boxer in my friend Orlando (Roy) De La Fuente....
Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Rick Farris »

kikibalt wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:
Chuck1052 wrote:The last time that I saw Ray "Windmill" White was when I saw him help set up a ring for amateur boxing exhibitions at Ventura College during the late 1980s or early 1990s. As far as I know, White still lives in Oak View, which is located between Ventura and Ojai.

There was alot of coverage devoted to White in the Ventura Star-Free Press during the time that he was active as a professional boxer.

It is my understanding that Roger Rouse had Alzheimer's Disease at the time that he passed away during the late 1990s. By the way, many people looking at the win-loss records of Rouse and Todd Foster, two boxer from Montana, would think that the latter was much better fighter. But Rouse faced far better competition throughout his career, acquitting himself well during his prime years. In fact, Foster faced very "soft" opposition with a few exceptions during his career.


- Chuck Johnston
Chuck . . . Windmill White fought (and defeated) a lot of good fighters during his pro career of 60 bouts.
The night he fought Roger Rouse in 1971 at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium, I opened the show in a five-rounder.


-Rick Farris
White beat a very good boxer in my friend Orlando (Roy) De La Fuente....
Frank . . . I remember that fight very well, at the Valley Music Theatre in Woodland Hills.
I would say that this was when Windmill White was at his best. I never took White seriously as a fighter, he was just too funny in the ring.
However, those who fought him were often caught off guard by his confusing tactics. I would like to see if I can find Ray, and maybe do a follow up story.
I'd also like to ask Orlando his memory of fighting Windmill White. I guess I'll be seeing him at the CBHOF event in June.

-Rick Farris
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by THEHAMMER321 »

You know I never like to give to much credit to a trainer because of a fighters success because there is always other trainers out there who are capable but in Mike Tyson's case all you have to do is look at the tapes before Kevin Rooney was let go and after when the yes men took over, I am sure it all came down to discipline Rooney made sure he did everything fundamentally sound like how he held his hands high and bobbed and weaved at the same time and then when the yes men took over it probably went something like this in training champ you are doing fine ''my brotha'' :lol:
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