BoxRec

raylawpc wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

raylawpc wrote: Rick, I watched the fight. Pavlik did better after you turned off the TV. I thought he won the sixth, seventh and eighth rounds. However, in the 9th round he sustained a cut over his right eye and his corner couldn't control the bleeding. He said in the post fight interview that he couldn't see after that and maybe he couldn't, because he sure looked bad in the last three rounds.

Pavlik's biggest problem was that his so-called "cut man" apparently had never heard of q-tip swabs. He tried to close Pavlik's cuts using a rolled-up piece of gauze. Who knows what he put on that gauze - but I can't imagine trying to apply adrenalin chloride that way and applying the pressure you need deep in the cut to stop the bleeding. As my youngest son would say: Unfrekkinbelievable. It kind of reminded me of Tyson's fight against Buster Douglas when Tyson's corner tried to stop his eye from swelling by applying a water balloon. Pavlik might have lost anyway, but the incompetence of his cutman sure didn't help his cause.

Tom . . . I watched the entire fight which was replayed again last night and agree Pavlik did better in the later rounds. I am amazed how many boxers involved in high profile fights with millions of dollars involved enter the ring with inexperienced cornermen & trainers. Look at the guy Chris Arreola has training him, and Miguel Cotto? These guys have a dozen cornermen and none can patch a cut. In the old days, one guy did everything, just needed somebody to handle the water bottle and stool.

I'll brag on myself: I took a fighter to West Little Rock Arkansas to fight a main event. Just me and him. This guy was a real bleeder. By the end of the fourth round, he was cut over and under the left eye, over the right eye, and under his chin. That's four cuts. I stopped all four cuts, kept the cuts closed throughout the rest of the fight, and took care of everything else. My guy won a unanimous 10-round decision. I worked my butt off that night - I think I was as tired as the fighter when it was over.

One thing I am proud of is that NONE of my fighters ever lost on a cut, and I never heard any of them complain, if they lost, that it was because they couldn't see for the blood.

I take real pride in that, and I am especially proud of the work I did that night in West Little Rock, Arkansas.

I'll stop bragging and revert to my typical, humble self now.

Tom...

kikibalt wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

Rick Farris wrote: Tom . . . I watched the entire fight which was replayed again last night and agree Pavlik did better in the later rounds. I am amazed how many boxers involved in high profile fights with millions of dollars involved enter the ring with inexperienced cornermen & trainers. Look at the guy Chris Arreola has training him, and Miguel Cotto? These guys have a dozen cornermen and none can patch a cut. In the old days, one guy did everything, just needed somebody to handle the water bottle and stool.

I'll brag on myself: I took a fighter to West Little Rock Arkansas to fight a main event. Just me and him. This guy was a real bleeder. By the end of the fourth round, he was cut over and under the left eye, over the right eye, and under his chin. That's four cuts. I stopped all four cuts, kept the cuts closed throughout the rest of the fight, and took care of everything else. My guy won a unanimous 10-round decision. I worked my butt off that night - I think I was as tired as the fighter when it was over.

One thing I am proud of is that NONE of my fighters ever lost on a cut, and I never heard any of them complain, if they lost, that it was because they couldn't see for the blood.

I take real pride in that, and I am especially proud of the work I did that night in West Little Rock, Arkansas.

I'll stop bragging and revert to my typical, humble self now.

Tom...

Tom . . . I'll second Frank's .
I only suffered two cuts late in my career. A cut over one eye in my last fight, and a cut over the other eye in a previous fight. Unfortunatly, my corner man was Mel Epstein, and as I wrote some time back in a previous post, Mel was half blind and had shakey hands. When I receieved the first cut (from an elbow) it was in the third round of a six round fight. The same round my nose was busted, so there was a lot of blood. Luckily, Mel had Johnny Villaflor as his second and Johnny was able to treat the cut. In my last fight, all I had was Mel and a moron named Jerry Beldering . I bled all over the damn ring that night in the little San Diego Coliseum. Afterwards the commission doc stitched me up. A lot must be said for a competent corner.

A great corner . . .

Is what Mando Ramos had the night he fought Frankie Crawford. Jackie McCoy & Eddie Futch.

Police: Boxing champ killed himself after arrest in wife's death


CARACAS, Venezuela (AP)
Former boxing champion Edwin Valero, who gained fame for knocking out all his 27 opponents and having a tattoo of Hugo Chavez on his chest, was found dead in his jail cell Monday and police said he hanged himself after being arrested in his wife's murder.

The former lightweight champion used his own clothes to hang himself from a bar in his cell early Monday, Venezuelan Federal Police Chief Wilmer Flores told reporters.
Valero, seen here during a WBC lightweight title fight, was known in part for the tattoo of Hugo Chavez on his chest.
Eduardo Verdugo

He said Valero was found by another inmate, who alerted authorities in the police lockup in north-central Carabobo state. Valero still showed signs of life when they took him down, but they were unable to save him and he died about 1:30 a.m., Flores said.

The 28-year-old was detained Sunday on suspicion of killing his wife. Prosecutors said Sunday night that they had planned to charge Valero in the killing.

Valero was detained after police found the body of his 24-year-old wife in a hotel in Valencia. The boxer left the hotel room around dawn Sunday and allegedly told security he had killed Jennifer Viera, Flores said.

The fighter was a household name in Venezuela and had a huge image of President Chavez tattooed on his chest along with the country's yellow, blue and red flag.

His all-action style and 27-0 record -- all by knockouts -- earned him a reputation as a tough, explosive crowd-pleaser. Venezuelans called him "Inca," alluding to an Indian warrior, while elsewhere he was called "Dinamita," or dynamite.

The death is the third high-profile reported suicide of a former boxing champion in the past year.

Hall of Famer Alexis Arguello, the mayor of Managua, Nicaragua, was found dead at his home last July of a gunshot wound to the chest. A few weeks later, Arturo Gatti was found strangled in the Brazilian resort town of Porto de Galinhas. His wife was arrested as the prime suspect in the death, but authorities later ruled that he committed suicide.

The former WBA super featherweight and WBC lightweight champion had been in trouble with the law before.

Last month, Valero was charged with harassing his wife and threatening medical personnel who treated her at a hospital in the western city of Merida. Police arrested Valero following an argument with a doctor and nurse at the hospital, where his wife was being treated for a series of injuries, including a punctured lung and broken ribs.

The Attorney General's Office said in a statement that Valero was detained March 25 on suspicion of assaulting his wife, but his wife told a police officer her injuries were due to a fall. When the boxer arrived moments later, he forbade Viera from speaking to the police officer, and spoke threateningly to the officer, prosecutors said in a statement.

A prosecutor had asked a court to keep Valero in jail but that the judge instead allowed him to remain free under certain conditions, the Attorney General's Office said.

Mora, his lawyer, told The Associated Press the fighter had been assigned police escorts to prevent any problems with his wife, but that he evaded them.

Jose Castillo, Valero's manager, criticized authorities for failing to act more forcefully to prevent the killing.

"I asked the authorities not to let him out. He needed a lot of help. He was very bad in the head," Castillo told reporters. "But they let him out. They were very permissive with him and because of that, we're now in the middle of this tragedy."

Mora, however, said Valero "didn't accept the help the government gave him."

"He was the only one responsible," Mora said, adding that the government had arranged for Valero to attend a drug and alcohol rehabilitation program in Cuba. He had missed a flight to the island earlier this month and was scheduled to fly there soon, she said.

The fighter's 8-year-old son and 5-year-old daughter are staying with their grandmother, she said.

Before his death, photographs showed Valero being led in handcuffs through the jail, then shielding his face by pulling down his cap.

While police suspected Valero was battering his wife, "the only person who could report it was her, and she told her family that he never hit her," Mora said. "She wanted help for him."

Valero also "adored his wife," Mora said. "We were very close to him and we knew there could be this sort of outcome because when he became conscious of what he really had done, he wasn't going to be able to bear not being close to Carolina."

In the ring, Valero's fists carried him from poverty to fame. He won his first 18 fights by first-round knockout, setting a record that has since been eclipsed by Tyrone Brunson. Valero last fought in February, defeating Antonio DeMarco in Monterrey, Mexico.

He was replaced as WBC lightweight champion in February after he expressed a desire to campaign in a higher weight division, WBC president Jose Sulaiman said.

Valero was involved in a motorcycle accident in 2001 that caused a cerebral hemorrhage, and because most jurisdictions refuse to license a fighter who has sustained a brain injury, he was unable to fight in the United States. The boxer wound up fighting mainly in Japan and Latin America, where he won his first title in 2006.

Valero also was charged with drunken driving in Texas, which is the primary reason he was denied a U.S. visa.

He accused the U.S. government of discrimination, saying his application wasn't approved because of his sympathy for Chavez, a fierce critic of the U.S. government.

He appeared at times as a special guest at televised events hosted by Chavez and was lionized by Chavez supporters as a national hero, while some critics accused him of avoiding punishment for past problems due to close links to the government.

Tales From The Simons Brickyard
“Mama Lupe’s Apricots”

Besides animals, everybody in Simons had fruit trees. My grandma “Mama Lupe” had a few trees. My cousins Robert, Jesus and I would steal her apricots when they were still green, we would eat them with salt, man, were they good!. One day she busted us stealing the green apricots, and I knew we were in trouble, she came running out of the house with a belt.

“You come here” she said to Robert.
She put her hands in Robert’s pockets and pull the apricots out and whacked him one with the belt.
She than called Jesus, and does the same thing, while she is whacking Jesus, I walked to the outhouse and threw my apricots down the hole, when she went through my pockets she didn’t find apricots.
But the following day when I went to her house she got a hold of me.
“You thought you were being smart, didn’t you?”. Whack went the belt!

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

raylawpc wrote: I'll brag on myself: I took a fighter to West Little Rock Arkansas to fight a main event. Just me and him. This guy was a real bleeder. By the end of the fourth round, he was cut over and under the left eye, over the right eye, and under his chin. That's four cuts. I stopped all four cuts, kept the cuts closed throughout the rest of the fight, and took care of everything else. My guy won a unanimous 10-round decision. I worked my butt off that night - I think I was as tired as the fighter when it was over.

One thing I am proud of is that NONE of my fighters ever lost on a cut, and I never heard any of them complain, if they lost, that it was because they couldn't see for the blood.

I take real pride in that, and I am especially proud of the work I did that night in West Little Rock, Arkansas.

I'll stop bragging and revert to my typical, humble self now.

Tom...

Tom . . . I'll second Frank's .
I only suffered two cuts late in my career. A cut over one eye in my last fight, and a cut over the other eye in a previous fight. Unfortunatly, my corner man was Mel Epstein, and as I wrote some time back in a previous post, Mel was half blind and had shakey hands. When I receieved the first cut (from an elbow) it was in the third round of a six round fight. The same round my nose was busted, so there was a lot of blood. Luckily, Mel had Johnny Villaflor as his second and Johnny was able to treat the cut. In my last fight, all I had was Mel and a moron named Jerry Beldering . I bled all over the damn ring that night in the little San Diego Coliseum. Afterwards the commission doc stitched me up. A lot must be said for a competent corner.

Yeah. When I saw Pavlik's "cutman" try to stop the bleeding with a piece of gause and his hands shaking like a drunk on the wagon, I knew Pavlik was in trouble. The commentators even said this might not "bode well" for Pavlik because his cutman "lacks experience." That was the understatement of the year. . .

To echo your comment: Why a guy would put his title on the line - something worth millions of dollars - without the best cutman available is beyond me. Maybe there aren't any good cutmen anymore. Hmmm . . . Maybe I should dust off my old bag, get some fresh adrenalin chloride, and start working corners again? . . . Hmmm. . . Has a cutman ever made a comeback?? . . . Hmmmm . . . Will Rick put in a good work for me with Freddie Roach? . . . Hmmm. . . . Hmmm . . .

Rick Farris wrote:Too Many Chef's Spoil The Soup . . .


In 2003, a friend of mine, Matt Butkus (son of football great Dick Butkus) calls to tell me that he has bought a piece of an unbeaten Jr. Welterweight, Franciso "Paunchito" Bojado. I was aware of Bojado, who was born in Mexico, raised in ELA, and went back to Mexico to become a member of their '2000 Olympic boxing team. Bojado won an Olympic medal that year, and then turned professional at age 17.

I was impressed by Bojado, who had punching power and a lot of potential. I had seen him fight, and Butkus asked if I might write a story on him. At the time, Bojado was training for a match Jesse James Leija, an over-the-hill ex-champ who was supposed to be a stepping stone on the boxer's journey to a world title. I told Matt I'd be like to write about his boxer and the next day he picked me up on his way to the gym.

The fighter was training at the old Lincoln Heights Jail Gym, which Johnny Flores had opened in the early 1970's. When Matt and I arrived at the gym, we found the boxer in his dressing room, which had once been a jail cell. He wasn't alone. Also in the dressing room was his trainer, Floyd Mayweather Sr. Wrapping his hands was his "cut man", Joe Chavez (whom I'd known for years). I was then introduced to a guy named Rob, who was the fighters "conditioning coach" and cook. I was then introduced to another who was his lawyer. And another who was Internet manager. And another who was his PR man. And then I was introduced to the boxer's father, who was also on the payroll. Also involved was Shelly Finkle, who was the boxer's "manager/advisor", however, Finkle wasn't present.

As Chavez wrapped the fighter's hands I visited with Mayweather, and it occured to me that "Team Bojado" consisted of the same players that were a part of "Team De La Hoya". Oscar was already a well established World Champ and generating $millions. Bojado had only a handful of matches, he'd won all fairly easily.

I became confused watching the team play their rolls as the boxer warmed up. Rob would "stretch out" the boxer, before Chavez would attend to his gloves, and then Mayweather would work the pads with him, and then . . . Hell, I forget. There were so many men buzzing around this 18-year-old prospect, I lost tract who was who. Whenever the bell would ring ending a sparring or bag punching session, two team members would wipe down the fighter, one on each side. The fighter was very relaxed, a nice kid, but Butkus told me they were having a few "problems".

My friend told me that the fighter was getting very cocky, and had started to skip roadwork on occasion. The fighter was also telling the"team" what he wanted to do, and he was going to do it regardless of they wanted. My mind flashed immediatly to the men who managed my modest career, Mel Epstein & Johnny Flores. I thought to myself, if Mel is looking down from the big gym in the sky he must be laughing, or more than likely, cursing. A know nothing teenager telling his handlers what he did and didn't want to do.

Butkus couldn't understand why this kid was becoming so difficult, putting his career at risk. I laughed and told him that the problem was obvious. "Everybody is so busy kissing this kid's ass he doesn't respect or believe in any of you." He's a fighter, not Barbra Streisand." Butkus was startled, "But this is how a top boxing prospect needs to be treated. We've got Oscar's team, these are the guys that make Oscar great, and we want the same thing for Paunchito." I told him that Oscar is doing well inspite of all this attention. This ruins a fighter, it takes away the hunger element, it assures a man of success that is anything but certain, etc. etc." I went on a roll that would have made old Mel proud. "You are responsible for ruining this kid and now that you have started you'll never be able to go back and do things right." Matt looked at me like I was crazy.

I wrote a nice story on Bojado, as he prepared to face Leija, a battle-scarred vet who would hand him his first loss, breaking his all important winning streak, thus breaking the bubble of invincibility, which is all HBO cares about. Bojado kinda disappeared after that. Next time I would hear of him he was working as one of Oscar's sparring partners.

The kid had peaked early, got cocky before he had a right to be, and now was finished as a serious contender.
I wonder who is kissing his ass today? What a waste of a great talent. Don't give a kid too much, too soon. Make them work for what they get. This is something that has been lost since I was a boxer.


-Rick Farris

Rick you are so right about fighters,when they become ''The Boss'' instead of the trainer that is the beginning of the end,as I have stated before with Mike Tyson as the example, the fighter must understand even though you as the fighter are paying the trainer he is still the boss.

kikibalt wrote:Tales From The Simons Brickyard
“Mama Lupe’s Apricots”

Besides animals, everybody in Simons had fruit trees. My grandma “Mama Lupe” had a few trees. My cousins Robert, Jesus and I would steal her apricots when they were still green, we would eat them with salt, man, were they good!. One day she busted us stealing the green apricots, and I knew we were in trouble, she came running out of the house with a belt.

“You come here” she said to Robert.
She put her hands in Robert’s pockets and pull the apricots out and whacked him one with the belt.
She than called Jesus, and does the same thing, while she is whacking Jesus, I walked to the outhouse and threw my apricots down the hole, when she went through my pockets she didn’t find apricots.
But the following day when I went to her house she got a hold of me.
“You thought you were being smart, didn’t you?”. Whack went the belt!

you thought you outsmarted grandma hey

THEHAMMER321 wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Tales From The Simons Brickyard
“Mama Lupe’s Apricots”

Besides animals, everybody in Simons had fruit trees. My grandma “Mama Lupe” had a few trees. My cousins Robert, Jesus and I would steal her apricots when they were still green, we would eat them with salt, man, were they good!. One day she busted us stealing the green apricots, and I knew we were in trouble, she came running out of the house with a belt.

“You come here” she said to Robert.
She put her hands in Robert’s pockets and pull the apricots out and whacked him one with the belt.
She than called Jesus, and does the same thing, while she is whacking Jesus, I walked to the outhouse and threw my apricots down the hole, when she went through my pockets she didn’t find apricots.
But the following day when I went to her house she got a hold of me.
“You thought you were being smart, didn’t you?”. Whack went the belt!

you thought you outsmarted grandma hey

I thought I did, but I was wrong....

kikibalt wrote:Tales From The Simons Brickyard
“Mama Lupe’s Apricots”

Besides animals, everybody in Simons had fruit trees. My grandma “Mama Lupe” had a few trees. My cousins Robert, Jesus and I would steal her apricots when they were still green, we would eat them with salt, man, were they good!. One day she busted us stealing the green apricots, and I knew we were in trouble, she came running out of the house with a belt.

“You come here” she said to Robert.
She put her hands in Robert’s pockets and pull the apricots out and whacked him one with the belt.
She than called Jesus, and does the same thing, while she is whacking Jesus, I walked to the outhouse and threw my apricots down the hole, when she went through my pockets she didn’t find apricots.
But the following day when I went to her house she got a hold of me.
“You thought you were being smart, didn’t you?”. Whack went the belt!

Frank, when those apricots are small and green, they are also pretty hard, and make great ammunition for a sling shot.
They not only hurt, but usually leave a stain mark that won't come out. Good story!

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Tales From The Simons Brickyard
“Mama Lupe’s Apricots”

Besides animals, everybody in Simons had fruit trees. My grandma “Mama Lupe” had a few trees. My cousins Robert, Jesus and I would steal her apricots when they were still green, we would eat them with salt, man, were they good!. One day she busted us stealing the green apricots, and I knew we were in trouble, she came running out of the house with a belt.

“You come here” she said to Robert.
She put her hands in Robert’s pockets and pull the apricots out and whacked him one with the belt.
She than called Jesus, and does the same thing, while she is whacking Jesus, I walked to the outhouse and threw my apricots down the hole, when she went through my pockets she didn’t find apricots.
But the following day when I went to her house she got a hold of me.
“You thought you were being smart, didn’t you?”. Whack went the belt!

Frank, when those apricots are small and green, they are also pretty hard, and make great ammunition for a sling shot.

I would think they would make good ammo for a sling shot, though never tried them for that...

kikibalt wrote:

THEHAMMER321 wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Tales From The Simons Brickyard
“Mama Lupe’s Apricots”

Besides animals, everybody in Simons had fruit trees. My grandma “Mama Lupe” had a few trees. My cousins Robert, Jesus and I would steal her apricots when they were still green, we would eat them with salt, man, were they good!. One day she busted us stealing the green apricots, and I knew we were in trouble, she came running out of the house with a belt.

“You come here” she said to Robert.
She put her hands in Robert’s pockets and pull the apricots out and whacked him one with the belt.
She than called Jesus, and does the same thing, while she is whacking Jesus, I walked to the outhouse and threw my apricots down the hole, when she went through my pockets she didn’t find apricots.
But the following day when I went to her house she got a hold of me.
“You thought you were being smart, didn’t you?”. Whack went the belt!

you thought you outsmarted grandma hey

I thought I did, but I was wrong....

I learned at a very early age that two people I couldn't outsmart were my grandmas! Noses like a bloodhound, eyes like an hawk, and both were smarter detectives than Sherlock Holmes!!

I really enjoyed that one . . . sounded like a story from my own life.

raylawpc wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

THEHAMMER321 wrote: you thought you outsmarted grandma hey

I thought I did, but I was wrong....

I learned at a very early age that two people I couldn't outsmart were my grandmas! Noses like a bloodhound, eyes like an hawk, and both were smarter detectives than Sherlock Holmes!!

kikibalt wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Tales From The Simons Brickyard
“Mama Lupe’s Apricots”

Besides animals, everybody in Simons had fruit trees. My grandma “Mama Lupe” had a few trees. My cousins Robert, Jesus and I would steal her apricots when they were still green, we would eat them with salt, man, were they good!. One day she busted us stealing the green apricots, and I knew we were in trouble, she came running out of the house with a belt.

“You come here” she said to Robert.
She put her hands in Robert’s pockets and pull the apricots out and whacked him one with the belt.
She than called Jesus, and does the same thing, while she is whacking Jesus, I walked to the outhouse and threw my apricots down the hole, when she went through my pockets she didn’t find apricots.
But the following day when I went to her house she got a hold of me.
“You thought you were being smart, didn’t you?”. Whack went the belt!

Frank, when those apricots are small and green, they are also pretty hard, and make great ammunition for a sling shot.

I would think they would make good ammo for a sling shot, though never tried them for that...

It not only stings & leaves a welt, it also leaves a permanent stain, reminding the person that you GOT 'EM!!!

raylawpc wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote: Tom...

Tom . . . I'll second Frank's .
I only suffered two cuts late in my career. A cut over one eye in my last fight, and a cut over the other eye in a previous fight. Unfortunatly, my corner man was Mel Epstein, and as I wrote some time back in a previous post, Mel was half blind and had shakey hands. When I receieved the first cut (from an elbow) it was in the third round of a six round fight. The same round my nose was busted, so there was a lot of blood. Luckily, Mel had Johnny Villaflor as his second and Johnny was able to treat the cut. In my last fight, all I had was Mel and a moron named Jerry Beldering . I bled all over the damn ring that night in the little San Diego Coliseum. Afterwards the commission doc stitched me up. A lot must be said for a competent corner.

Yeah. When I saw Pavlik's "cutman" try to stop the bleeding with a piece of gause and his hands shaking like a drunk on the wagon, I knew Pavlik was in trouble. The commentators even said this might not "bode well" for Pavlik because his cutman "lacks experience." That was the understatement of the year. . .

To echo your comment: Why a guy would put his title on the line - something worth millions of dollars - without the best cutman available is beyond me. Maybe there aren't any good cutmen anymore. Hmmm . . . Maybe I should dust off my old bag, get some fresh adrenalin chloride, and start working corners again? . . . Hmmm. . . Has a cutman ever made a comeback?? . . . Hmmmm . . . Will Rick put in a good work for me with Freddie Roach? . . . Hmmm. . . . Hmmm . . .

Gotcha Tom. Next time your in L.A. let's hook-up and visit Wildcard Gym. You'll like Freddie Roach, a throw back to the days of real trainers.

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:
Frank, when those apricots are small and green, they are also pretty hard, and make great ammunition for a sling shot.

I would think they would make good ammo for a sling shot, though never tried them for that...

It not only stings & leaves a welt, it also leaves a permanent stain, reminding the person that you GOT 'EM!!!

In Oklahoma City, we used to have tons of acorns. We used those as slingshot ammunition. In the Summers in Oklahoma the only thing you wore as a kid were cutoffs and (maybe) a t-shirt. Lots of exposed fresh and, boy, did those acorns sting!! Its a wonder somebody didn't lose an eye . . .

Rick Farris wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:
Tom . . . I'll second Frank's .
I only suffered two cuts late in my career. A cut over one eye in my last fight, and a cut over the other eye in a previous fight. Unfortunatly, my corner man was Mel Epstein, and as I wrote some time back in a previous post, Mel was half blind and had shakey hands. When I receieved the first cut (from an elbow) it was in the third round of a six round fight. The same round my nose was busted, so there was a lot of blood. Luckily, Mel had Johnny Villaflor as his second and Johnny was able to treat the cut. In my last fight, all I had was Mel and a moron named Jerry Beldering . I bled all over the damn ring that night in the little San Diego Coliseum. Afterwards the commission doc stitched me up. A lot must be said for a competent corner.

Yeah. When I saw Pavlik's "cutman" try to stop the bleeding with a piece of gause and his hands shaking like a drunk on the wagon, I knew Pavlik was in trouble. The commentators even said this might not "bode well" for Pavlik because his cutman "lacks experience." That was the understatement of the year. . .

To echo your comment: Why a guy would put his title on the line - something worth millions of dollars - without the best cutman available is beyond me. Maybe there aren't any good cutmen anymore. Hmmm . . . Maybe I should dust off my old bag, get some fresh adrenalin chloride, and start working corners again? . . . Hmmm. . . Has a cutman ever made a comeback?? . . . Hmmmm . . . Will Rick put in a good work for me with Freddie Roach? . . . Hmmm. . . . Hmmm . . .

Gotcha Tom. Next time your in L.A. let's hook-up and visit Wildcard Gym. You'll like Freddie Roach, a throw back to the days of real trainers.

Let's do it! I haven't been to a real gym in years! The first step on my road to a cutman comeback!

raylawpc wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote: I would think they would make good ammo for a sling shot, though never tried them for that...

It not only stings & leaves a welt, it also leaves a permanent stain, reminding the person that you GOT 'EM!!!

In Oklahoma City, we used to have tons of acorns. We used those as slingshot ammunition. In the Summers in Oklahoma the only thing you wore as a kid were cutoffs and (maybe) a t-shirt. Lots of exposed fresh and, boy, did those acorns sting!! Its a wonder somebody didn't lose an eye . . .

Tom . . . As a kid, cut offs and a T-shirt was all I wore in the summer. Acorns would be great sling shot ammo (I shot just about everything possible using my slingshot). I'll never forget hearing the mothers in our neighborhood tell us, "One of you kids are going to lose an eye." Nobody ever lost an eye that I can remember, but it made you think. I have to admit, I accidentally shot a neighborhood kid in the face with my bow & arrow. I was a guy who never could hit the target with an arrow. We were having a neighborhood war with some older kids, they were hitting us with BB's. I shot an arrow over the fence to scare them. Damn if it didn't hit one of the older kids in the face. The arrow went right into his cheek, and I saw him run out of the yard with this arrow sticking in his head. I wasn't aiming at anybody because I couldn't see what was on the other side of the fence. Needless to say, this ended the war and the older kids never came back to start another. Luckily, the arrow didn't do anything more than put a small hole in his face, which was stitched up. My father paid the emergency room bill, came home and gave me the worst ass-whipping ever with his belt. I then had to work off the cost of the medical bill. I mowed a lot of lawns that summer, and never saw a penny.

Rick Farris wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

Rick Farris wrote: It not only stings & leaves a welt, it also leaves a permanent stain, reminding the person that you GOT 'EM!!!

In Oklahoma City, we used to have tons of acorns. We used those as slingshot ammunition. In the Summers in Oklahoma the only thing you wore as a kid were cutoffs and (maybe) a t-shirt. Lots of exposed fresh and, boy, did those acorns sting!! Its a wonder somebody didn't lose an eye . . .

Tom . . . As a kid, cut offs and a T-shirt was all I wore in the summer. Acorns would be great sling shot ammo (I shot just about everything possible using my slingshot). I'll never forget hearing the mothers in our neighborhood tell us, "One of you kids are going to lose an eye." Nobody ever lost an eye that I can remember, but it made you think. I have to admit, I accidentally shot a neighborhood kid in the face with my bow & arrow. I was a guy who never could hit the target with an arrow. We were having a neighborhood war with some older kids, they were hitting us with BB's. I shot an arrow over the fence to scare them. Damn if it didn't hit one of the older kids in the face. The arrow went right into his cheek, and I saw him run out of the yard with this arrow sticking in his head. I wasn't aiming at anybody because I couldn't see what was on the other side of the fence. Needless to say, this ended the war and the older kids never came back to start another. Luckily, the arrow didn't do anything more than put a small hole in his face, which was stitched up. My father paid the emergency room bill, came home and gave me the worst ass-whipping ever with his belt. I then had to work off the cost of the medical bill. I mowed a lot of lawns that summer, and never saw a penny.

What the f*ck Rick, you thought you were Little Beaver?....

kikibalt wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

raylawpc wrote: In Oklahoma City, we used to have tons of acorns. We used those as slingshot ammunition. In the Summers in Oklahoma the only thing you wore as a kid were cutoffs and (maybe) a t-shirt. Lots of exposed fresh and, boy, did those acorns sting!! Its a wonder somebody didn't lose an eye . . .

Tom . . . As a kid, cut offs and a T-shirt was all I wore in the summer. Acorns would be great sling shot ammo (I shot just about everything possible using my slingshot). I'll never forget hearing the mothers in our neighborhood tell us, "One of you kids are going to lose an eye." Nobody ever lost an eye that I can remember, but it made you think. I have to admit, I accidentally shot a neighborhood kid in the face with my bow & arrow. I was a guy who never could hit the target with an arrow. We were having a neighborhood war with some older kids, they were hitting us with BB's. I shot an arrow over the fence to scare them. Damn if it didn't hit one of the older kids in the face. The arrow went right into his cheek, and I saw him run out of the yard with this arrow sticking in his head. I wasn't aiming at anybody because I couldn't see what was on the other side of the fence. Needless to say, this ended the war and the older kids never came back to start another. Luckily, the arrow didn't do anything more than put a small hole in his face, which was stitched up. My father paid the emergency room bill, came home and gave me the worst ass-whipping ever with his belt. I then had to work off the cost of the medical bill. I mowed a lot of lawns that summer, and never saw a penny.

What the f*ck Rick, you thought you were Little Beaver?....

Frank, the guy who got shot was 12, I was ten. He had never given me trouble before, but had bullied a lot of my friends.
After the arrow incident, he didn't fu*k with anybody again. (And I never again used a bow & arrow).

Chata was in a bitching mood yesterday, she attacked her man, Charlie, twice, I had to rescue the poor dude, I told the dude, "thats what you get for hooking up with a big mama like that"...LOL!!

Rick Farris wrote:Frank, the guy who got shot was 12, I was ten. He had never given me trouble before, but had bullied a lot of my friends.
After the arrow incident, he didn't fu*k with anybody again. (And I never again used a bow & arrow).

Rick, when I was in Jr high that were two girls that were the best of friends, they were always together, one was named Rosie, can't remember the other one's name, Rosie was tall, stood straight as an arrow, the other one was slightly hunch, not like the Hunchback of Notre Dame, but slightly hunch none the less, I think you can guess where I'm going with this, yes, we call'em "Bow & Arrow". "Here comes Bow and Arrow" some one would say as we seen them coming....

Expug wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

raylawpc wrote: Rick, I watched the fight. Pavlik did better after you turned off the TV. I thought he won the sixth, seventh and eighth rounds. However, in the 9th round he sustained a cut over his right eye and his corner couldn't control the bleeding. He said in the post fight interview that he couldn't see after that and maybe he couldn't, because he sure looked bad in the last three rounds.

Pavlik's biggest problem was that his so-called "cut man" apparently had never heard of q-tip swabs. He tried to close Pavlik's cuts using a rolled-up piece of gauze. Who knows what he put on that gauze - but I can't imagine trying to apply adrenalin chloride that way and applying the pressure you need deep in the cut to stop the bleeding. As my youngest son would say: Unfrekkinbelievable. It kind of reminded me of Tyson's fight against Buster Douglas when Tyson's corner tried to stop his eye from swelling by applying a water balloon. Pavlik might have lot anyway, but the incompetence of his cutman sure didn't help his cause.

Tom . . . I watched the entire fight which was replayed again last night and agree Pavlik did better in the later rounds. I am amazed how many boxers involved in high profile fights with millions of dollars involved enter the ring with inexperienced cornermen & trainers. Look at the guy Chris Arreola has training him, and Miguel Cotto? These guys have a dozen cornermen and none can patch a cut. In the old days, one guy did everything, just needed somebody to handle the water bottle and stool.

Yep, no question, Moe, Larry and Curley have been working corners in the last couple decades or so.
Tom, I will never forget The Three Stooges working Tysons corner vs Douglas. Applying what looked like a prophalatyc full of ice water to The Heavyweight Champs eye.
"Hey man, you got the endswel?"Nah man,I forgot,hey, I got a freakin Trojan in my wallet. This will work. Take it over to the drinking fountain and fill that thing up."
Stoonads.

Brian, I can't remember the "trainer's" name in the Tyson-Douglas fight, but I recall Teddy Atlas making a big deal about him having no practical experience and that he was once a cook. Laughed my tail off when Atlas screamed, "When it's time to do work on the pads, what does he hold up, oven mitts?" That was a shameless corner that night.

Scartissue

raylawpc wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote: Tom...

Tom . . . I'll second Frank's .
I only suffered two cuts late in my career. A cut over one eye in my last fight, and a cut over the other eye in a previous fight. Unfortunatly, my corner man was Mel Epstein, and as I wrote some time back in a previous post, Mel was half blind and had shakey hands. When I receieved the first cut (from an elbow) it was in the third round of a six round fight. The same round my nose was busted, so there was a lot of blood. Luckily, Mel had Johnny Villaflor as his second and Johnny was able to treat the cut. In my last fight, all I had was Mel and a moron named Jerry Beldering . I bled all over the damn ring that night in the little San Diego Coliseum. Afterwards the commission doc stitched me up. A lot must be said for a competent corner.

Yeah. When I saw Pavlik's "cutman" try to stop the bleeding with a piece of gause and his hands shaking like a drunk on the wagon, I knew Pavlik was in trouble. The commentators even said this might not "bode well" for Pavlik because his cutman "lacks experience." That was the understatement of the year. . .

To echo your comment: Why a guy would put his title on the line - something worth millions of dollars - without the best cutman available is beyond me. Maybe there aren't any good cutmen anymore. Hmmm . . . Maybe I should dust off my old bag, get some fresh adrenalin chloride, and start working corners again? . . . Hmmm. . . Has a cutman ever made a comeback?? . . . Hmmmm . . . Will Rick put in a good work for me with Freddie Roach? . . . Hmmm. . . . Hmmm . . .

Tom, I commented on that at the time, too. All this dude did was apply pressure to the cut, never treating it. End result, watch as he comes out for the next round (which may have been the 10th or 11th), the blood is rolling before Pavlik picks himself off of the stool. Brilliant cut work!

Scartissue

Rick Farris wrote:A great corner . . .

Is what Mando Ramos had the night he fought Frankie Crawford. Jackie McCoy & Eddie Futch.

Rick, another great corner was El Gato's the night he beat Carmona. Jackie McCoy, Jesse Reid and Cannonball Green. And everyone knew their place and no one stepped on Jackie's toes. He ran the show. I recall Emile Griffith working a few corners through his Gil Clancy-Howie Albert affiliation (I think it was a Juan LaPorte fight), and some bucket carrier had the audacity to give LaPorte some advice. Griffith paused, glared at him and he slunk into the shadows. Remember the Ali-Spinks rematch? Georgie Benton masterminded the plan that won Spinks the title, but Leon incorporated a bunch of hangers-on for the rematch. I remember one of them yelling over Benton's instructions, "More gusto! More gusto!" I remember thinking at the time, "What is this, a beer commercial?" That was the fight where Benton famously walked out mid-fight. Of course I remember passive corners too. Remember the dude named Don Turner who worked some of Holyfields fights? Man, this dude was positively somber. I recall a microphone in the corner and I heard him ask a second, "Water!....Water!....Water!" Three times he had to ask. I don't think Lou Duva would have asked 3 times, he ran a maniacal corner. And it was that maniacal crap that I always blame for Taylor losing to Chavez (Duva on the ring apron sreaming crap that confused his clearly buzzed fighter). Everyone brings something different to the table.

Scartissue