BoxRec

mickey1975 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:23

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 11:56

dookus wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 09:47 Dunno if it's particularly unpopular, but Sky boxing was way better under Camp Eddie than during Wazza's WBU-ridden years of shīt

Fight wise Good point. But Eddie brought in PPV era.

Frank did, 1996. Good PPV. Double headers. Eddie brought in PPV part 2, mainly utter shite.

What about Frank’s PPVs from the mid to late 2000s?

maverick23 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:31

mickey1975 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:23

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 11:56

Fight wise Good point. But Eddie brought in PPV era.

Frank did, 1996. Good PPV. Double headers. Eddie brought in PPV part 2, mainly utter shite.

What about Frank’s PPVs from the mid to late 2000s?

Hearns are more numerous i think

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:50

maverick23 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:31

mickey1975 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:23
Frank did, 1996. Good PPV. Double headers. Eddie brought in PPV part 2, mainly utter shite.

What about Frank’s PPVs from the mid to late 2000s?

Hearns are more numerous i think

Yeah - probably more like 5/6 a year now compared with 3/4 10 years ago.

maverick23 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:31

mickey1975 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:23

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 11:56

Fight wise Good point. But Eddie brought in PPV era.

Frank did, 1996. Good PPV. Double headers. Eddie brought in PPV part 2, mainly utter shite.

What about Frank’s PPVs from the mid to late 2000s?

Well, he didn't really stop from 96-2011.

An unpopular opinion from me is mental health is mentioned too often. It’s obviously a tough , lonely and uncertain way to made a living but mental health seems to be the go to card “for some” to explain away bad behaviour or get more air time.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 01:22

maverick23 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:31

mickey1975 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:23
Frank did, 1996. Good PPV. Double headers. Eddie brought in PPV part 2, mainly utter shite.

What about Frank’s PPVs from the mid to late 2000s?

Well, he didn't really stop from 96-2011.

He did stop when he was on Setanta/ITV.

I agree his 90s PPVs were usually very good but the bulk post 2006 weren’t great and often get forgotten about.

maverick23 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:30

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 11:56

dookus wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 09:47 Dunno if it's particularly unpopular, but Sky boxing was way better under Camp Eddie than during Wazza's WBU-ridden years of shīt

Fight wise Good point. But Eddie brought in PPV era.

He brought in one or two more a year than there were before I think. In 2009/10/11 there were 4/4/3 Sky boxing PPVs respectively and, bar the last Sky PPV which was clearly a cash grab, I’d say the overall PPV has been better in the last 10 years than the previous 10.

Khan/Prescott headlined a PPV with a poor undercard. Khan/Kotelnik on PPV too and then the bigger heavyweight fights (Haye vs Harrison, Valuev, Ruiz) pretty much all had nothing much on the undercards.

Stacked undercards are a con anyway.

They just put on a load of good British & European level fights that should be on regular Sky to boost a PPV card they know shouldn’t be PPV.

All it means is you get poorer cards either side of the PPV on regular Sky

high tower 1 wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 02:58 An unpopular opinion from me is mental health is mentioned too often. It’s obviously a tough , lonely and uncertain way to made a living but mental health seems to be the go to card “for some” to explain away bad behaviour or get more air time.

It's a plague across all types of celebrity, though. Even though the Mental Health services have been gutted to the core so they're crap and overloaded, almost in parallel to their demise it's become increasingly fashionable to say that you suffer from depression and anxiety, or that you're Bi-polar, which almost all of the celebrities who claim to suffer from don't really have. When you've been to see your mate or relative in a unit where he's been sectioned after bankrupting the whole family thinking he's a millionaire and heir to the throne it gets f*cking annoying watching celebrities drone on about their "Bi-polar" when basically they just couldn't keep their coke habit under control.

I've had two close friends in locked mental health wards and another two kill themselves shortly after leaving. They live in pure hell.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 08:43 I've had two close friends in locked mental health wards and another two kill themselves shortly after leaving. They live in pure hell.

Yeah. It's awful. Sorry about your mates.

Cyclops wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 08:38

high tower 1 wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 02:58 An unpopular opinion from me is mental health is mentioned too often. It’s obviously a tough , lonely and uncertain way to made a living but mental health seems to be the go to card “for some” to explain away bad behaviour or get more air time.

It's a plague across all types of celebrity, though. Even though the Mental Health services have been gutted to the core so they're crap and overloaded, almost in parallel to their demise it's become increasingly fashionable to say that you suffer from depression and anxiety, or that you're Bi-polar, which almost all of the celebrities who claim to suffer from don't really have. When you've been to see your mate or relative in a unit where he's been sectioned after bankrupting the whole family thinking he's a millionaire and heir to the throne it gets f*cking annoying watching celebrities drone on about their "Bi-polar" when basically they just couldn't keep their coke habit under control.

Cyclops wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 08:38

high tower 1 wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 02:58 An unpopular opinion from me is mental health is mentioned too often. It’s obviously a tough , lonely and uncertain way to made a living but mental health seems to be the go to card “for some” to explain away bad behaviour or get more air time.

It's a plague across all types of celebrity, though. Even though the Mental Health services have been gutted to the core so they're crap and overloaded, almost in parallel to their demise it's become increasingly fashionable to say that you suffer from depression and anxiety, or that you're Bi-polar, which almost all of the celebrities who claim to suffer from don't really have. When you've been to see your mate or relative in a unit where he's been sectioned after bankrupting the whole family thinking he's a millionaire and heir to the throne it gets f*cking annoying watching celebrities drone on about their "Bi-polar" when basically they just couldn't keep their coke habit under control.

I think also a lot of it is over diagnosis in order to sell medication. However I do think there has been a major upscale in mental illness, I’m fairly sure suicide rates are on an up curve. What’s to blame? Increasingly complex world, lifestyles, breakdown of family and communities, modern media, and I think physical factors like pesticides, additives, chemicals in food.....

a force wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 07:52

maverick23 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:30

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 11:56

Fight wise Good point. But Eddie brought in PPV era.

He brought in one or two more a year than there were before I think. In 2009/10/11 there were 4/4/3 Sky boxing PPVs respectively and, bar the last Sky PPV which was clearly a cash grab, I’d say the overall PPV has been better in the last 10 years than the previous 10.

Khan/Prescott headlined a PPV with a poor undercard. Khan/Kotelnik on PPV too and then the bigger heavyweight fights (Haye vs Harrison, Valuev, Ruiz) pretty much all had nothing much on the undercards.

Stacked undercards are a con anyway.

They just put on a load of good British & European level fights that should be on regular Sky to boost a PPV card they know shouldn’t be PPV.

All it means is you get poorer cards either side of the PPV on regular Sky

Yeah - the term stacked gets thrown around too loosely. But look at the undercard to Khan/Prescott (which no way should have been PPV main event given Khan had just defended his commonwealth belt) - one competitive fight which was Cook vs Arthur for the WBO belt and the rest were completely one sided fights for guys early in their careers.

maverick23 wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 09:36

a force wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 07:52

maverick23 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2021, 12:30

He brought in one or two more a year than there were before I think. In 2009/10/11 there were 4/4/3 Sky boxing PPVs respectively and, bar the last Sky PPV which was clearly a cash grab, I’d say the overall PPV has been better in the last 10 years than the previous 10.

Khan/Prescott headlined a PPV with a poor undercard. Khan/Kotelnik on PPV too and then the bigger heavyweight fights (Haye vs Harrison, Valuev, Ruiz) pretty much all had nothing much on the undercards.

Stacked undercards are a con anyway.

They just put on a load of good British & European level fights that should be on regular Sky to boost a PPV card they know shouldn’t be PPV.

All it means is you get poorer cards either side of the PPV on regular Sky

Yeah - the term stacked gets thrown around too loosely. But look at the undercard to Khan/Prescott (which no way should have been PPV main event given Khan had just defended his commonwealth belt) - one competitive fight which was Cook vs Arthur for the WBO belt and the rest were completely one sided fights for guys early in their careers.

Sometimes, the main event is the sole purpose of a PPV, undercard is a bonus.

I can think of pletny of PPV's where fans purchased it for the main event, considered the undercard as bonus.

We're all hardcore fans on this forum, so we're much more critical and want to enjoy a nights worth of boxing.

Was it Warren or Hearn that pushed toward PPV, or was it Sky?

I wonder if Warren's controversial 'Magnificent 7' card was his idea or pressure from Sky for more PPVs. He did break with Sky to set up BN shortly after.

J-C wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 09:54 Was it Warren or Hearn that pushed toward PPV, or was it Sky?

I wonder if Warren's controversial 'Magnificent 7' card was his idea or pressure from Sky for more PPVs. He did break with Sky to set up BN shortly after.

Was the first Sky PPV Tyson vs. Bruno?

J-C wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 09:54 Was it Warren or Hearn that pushed toward PPV, or was it Sky?

I wonder if Warren's controversial 'Magnificent 7' card was his idea or pressure from Sky for more PPVs. He did break with Sky to set up BN shortly after.

Frank was pretty much the only U.K. promoter doing PPVs (coupled with the big fights in the US). Sky were doing roughly 4 a year when he left Sky in the late 2000s and now that’s crept up to 5/6 per year mainly driven by AJ/Whyte.

I didn’t post on here when the magnificent 7 show happened so can’t remember whether it was well received or not but I went to the show with some work mates and we all enjoyed it. Several decent fights but no fight in particular that could justify it being PPV but there were several really well matches fights. The reported less than 50,000 PPV buys showed that it needed a proper headliner and the arena wasn’t close to being full either.

I think it was FW’s call as he wasn’t getting enough dates from Sky at the time but could be wrong.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 09:55

J-C wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 09:54 Was it Warren or Hearn that pushed toward PPV, or was it Sky?

I wonder if Warren's controversial 'Magnificent 7' card was his idea or pressure from Sky for more PPVs. He did break with Sky to set up BN shortly after.

Was the first Sky PPV Tyson vs. Bruno?

One or two?

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 10:59

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 09:55

J-C wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 09:54 Was it Warren or Hearn that pushed toward PPV, or was it Sky?

I wonder if Warren's controversial 'Magnificent 7' card was his idea or pressure from Sky for more PPVs. He did break with Sky to set up BN shortly after.

Was the first Sky PPV Tyson vs. Bruno?

One or two?

The one in 96 wasn't it? rematch.. Then that same year Naz fought Remigio Molina..

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 09:55

J-C wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 09:54 Was it Warren or Hearn that pushed toward PPV, or was it Sky?

I wonder if Warren's controversial 'Magnificent 7' card was his idea or pressure from Sky for more PPVs. He did break with Sky to set up BN shortly after.

Was the first Sky PPV Tyson vs. Bruno?

I think it was. Remember it being debated at the time.

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 09:10

Cyclops wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 08:38

high tower 1 wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 02:58 An unpopular opinion from me is mental health is mentioned too often. It’s obviously a tough , lonely and uncertain way to made a living but mental health seems to be the go to card “for some” to explain away bad behaviour or get more air time.

It's a plague across all types of celebrity, though. Even though the Mental Health services have been gutted to the core so they're crap and overloaded, almost in parallel to their demise it's become increasingly fashionable to say that you suffer from depression and anxiety, or that you're Bi-polar, which almost all of the celebrities who claim to suffer from don't really have. When you've been to see your mate or relative in a unit where he's been sectioned after bankrupting the whole family thinking he's a millionaire and heir to the throne it gets f*cking annoying watching celebrities drone on about their "Bi-polar" when basically they just couldn't keep their coke habit under control.

I think also a lot of it is over diagnosis in order to sell medication. However I do think there has been a major upscale in mental illness, I’m fairly sure suicide rates are on an up curve. What’s to blame? Increasingly complex world, lifestyles, breakdown of family and communities, modern media, and I think physical factors like pesticides, additives, chemicals in food.....

All of that might be true, although having taught teenagers and young adults, a lot of whom claimed a range of mental health problems, I often wondered about whether the current trend for 'mental health awareness' causes a lot of young people to self diagnose. As a moody, hormonal teenager growing up if you'd have constantly shovelled down my throat that it was OK to admit to being depressed I might have claimed depression too, and believed it. But having lived through several bouts of some nasty depression as an adult, I can safely say the real thing is an absolute walking hell that I wouldn't wish on anybody, and I wasn't depressed: I was just a teenager.

Ive only seen about 2 minutes of Apinun Khongsong and he got crippled by an innocuous body shot which got a lot of criticism but i think it was a genuinely cracking punch

Anyway i reckon from the little i seen of him against Taylor that he's actually a decent fighter and could be a test for the likes of Catterall and Ritson, id like to see him again

Cyclops wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 15:23

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 09:10

Cyclops wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 08:38
It's a plague across all types of celebrity, though. Even though the Mental Health services have been gutted to the core so they're crap and overloaded, almost in parallel to their demise it's become increasingly fashionable to say that you suffer from depression and anxiety, or that you're Bi-polar, which almost all of the celebrities who claim to suffer from don't really have. When you've been to see your mate or relative in a unit where he's been sectioned after bankrupting the whole family thinking he's a millionaire and heir to the throne it gets f*cking annoying watching celebrities drone on about their "Bi-polar" when basically they just couldn't keep their coke habit under control.

I think also a lot of it is over diagnosis in order to sell medication. However I do think there has been a major upscale in mental illness, I’m fairly sure suicide rates are on an up curve. What’s to blame? Increasingly complex world, lifestyles, breakdown of family and communities, modern media, and I think physical factors like pesticides, additives, chemicals in food.....

All of that might be true, although having taught teenagers and young adults, a lot of whom claimed a range of mental health problems, I often wondered about whether the current trend for 'mental health awareness' causes a lot of young people to self diagnose. As a moody, hormonal teenager growing up if you'd have constantly shovelled down my throat that it was OK to admit to being depressed I might have claimed depression too, and believed it. But having lived through several bouts of some nasty depression as an adult, I can safely say the real thing is an absolute walking hell that I wouldn't wish on anybody, and I wasn't depressed: I was just a teenager.

It’s hard to decide. It’s such a complex issue. But I would definitively say severe mental issues and suicide are on the rise.

Allas wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 17:43 It’s hard to decide. It’s such a complex issue. But I would definitively say severe mental issues and suicide are on the rise.

Like I said before, decimation of the mental health services over the past 20 or so years probably haven't helped. Despite all the encouragement to get help if you're feeling down, quite often the help isn't really there. I also found (if we're going deep for a boxing forum) that despite there being this big thing about talking to your mates about it, when I had my wobble that put me on meds, my 'mates' for the most part didn't really want to know.

I know depressed people are boring but it certainly made me re-evaluate who was on my Christmas card list.

Anyway, my main scorn was reserved for people that claim Bi-Polar, which can be used for an excuse for bad behaviour, because anybody who knows someone who genuinely suffers with it will tell you what an absolute nightmare they can be, especially when manic. Tyson Fury, although I'm a fan, doesn't strike me as genuine Bi-polar at all. In fact, with his mood supposedly swinging all the time, his constantly contradicting himself and fibbing, and his frequent image changes, I'd have him down as suffering from some kind of personality disorder more than Bi-Polar. When I didn't like him before I often rubbished his and other people's claims that he was BPD. He's clearly got issues, but he's not Bi-Polar.

Dunno much about Bruno but Bruno has definitely ended up sectioned in the past. I think he's the real deal.

Allas wrote: ↑04 Jun 2021, 17:43 It’s a difficult one. Bit deep for a boxing forum perhaps but I suffer myself - take sertraline daily and still have bad days - but it does seem to be the ‘in’ thing nowadays, especially amongst the influencer lot on social media. Some people genuinely do struggle but IMO a lot play on it.

I take the same thing myself, mate. And very helpful it has been, too. Nothing to be ashamed of. However, even though I've been depressed I do get bored of all these depressed celebrities. It's like, f*cking shut up about it mate. Just do your headline set on the Pyramid stage and look at your bank balance, you know what I mean? Don't bitch to me.