Muhammad Ali (1967) vs. current HWs ?

[gilgamesh]

They get fatter.

The guys Holyfield beat for his Lineal titles were every bit as big as the Klitschko's or Wilder or Joshua.

Fury I beieve is the biggest Lineal Champion ever except for maybe Primo Carnera, but hell I think he's even bigger than Primo.

So if anything you should see a guy like Fury as more of an oddity than a guy like Holyfield because there's been a lot more Holyfield sized Champions than Fury sized ones.

[Enlightened-One]

They get fatter.

The guys Holyfield beat for his Lineal titles were every bit as big as the Klitschko's or Wilder or Joshua.

If you excluded anomalously big opponents from the equation (i.e. James ‘Buster’ Douglas, George Foreman and Riddick Bowe), Holyfield’s victories in world heavyweight title bouts came against men typically weighing 223lbs, with Evander's own mathematical average weight in those fights being 214lbs.

The average height & weight of modern-day heavyweights is in the region of 6′ 4½″ 247lbs.

The following fighters account for 32 of the 33 lineal world heavyweight title bouts that occurred within the last 26 years: George Foreman (253lbs), Lennox Lewis (247¼lbs), Hasim Rahman (238lbs), Wladimir Klitschko (245lbs) and Tyson Fury (262¾lbs).

The weights I've listed are based on their mathematical average weights for all the lineal world heavyweight title bouts they successfully engaged in.

[gilgamesh]

They get fatter.

The guys Holyfield beat for his Lineal titles were every bit as big as the Klitschko's or Wilder or Joshua.

If you excluded anomalously big opponents from the equation (i.e. James ‘Buster’ Douglas, George Foreman and Riddick Bowe), Holyfield’s victories in world heavyweight title bouts came against men typically weighing 223lbs, with Evander's own mathematical average weight being 214lbs.

The average height & weight of modern-day heavyweights is in the region of 6′ 4½″ 247lbs.

The following fighters account for 32 of the 33 lineal world heavyweight title bouts that occurred within the last 26 years: George Foreman (253lbs), Lennox Lewis (247¼lbs), Hasim Rahman (238lbs), Wladimir Klitschko (245lbs) and Tyson Fury (262¾lbs).

The weights I've listed are based on their mathematical average weights for all the lineal world heavyweight title bouts they successfully engaged in.

Jesus Christ dude. Just admit that guys under 225 pounds CAN win the Heavyweight Title, and it's special when they f*cking do it.

Holyfield was and is more popular and well known than Both Klitschko's, Wilder, Joshua or Fury.

Just show some humility one goddamn time.

Hey guess what. Old past his prime Holyfield beat Rahman barely over 1 year after Rahman winning the Lineal Heavyweight Title. Weird that his size didn't win that fight for him. It's almost like it takes more than size to win fights.

[Enlightened-One]

They get fatter.

The guys Holyfield beat for his Lineal titles were every bit as big as the Klitschko's or Wilder or Joshua.

If you excluded anomalously big opponents from the equation (i.e. James ‘Buster’ Douglas, George Foreman and Riddick Bowe), Holyfield’s victories in world heavyweight title bouts came against men typically weighing 223lbs, with Evander's own mathematical average weight being 214lbs.

The average height & weight of modern-day heavyweights is in the region of 6′ 4½″ 247lbs.

The following fighters account for 32 of the 33 lineal world heavyweight title bouts that occurred within the last 26 years: George Foreman (253lbs), Lennox Lewis (247¼lbs), Hasim Rahman (238lbs), Wladimir Klitschko (245lbs) and Tyson Fury (262¾lbs).

The weights I've listed are based on their mathematical average weights for all the lineal world heavyweight title bouts they successfully engaged in.

Jesus Christ dude. Just admit that guys under 225 pounds CAN win the Heavyweight Title, and it's special when they f*cking do it.

Holyfield was and is more popular and well known than Both Klitschko's, Wilder, Joshua or Fury.

Just show some humility one goddamn time.

Read my previous posts in this thread.

And also please try to recall our previous discussions.

I’ve made my thoughts about size not being the ‘be-all-and-end-all’ so many times that it’s becoming rather tedious for me to keep having to repeat myself literally dozens of times.

It’s not my fault that people keep pretending that size is utterly irrelevant in heavyweight boxing, even though the real-world facts clearly contradicting their claims.

People shouldn’t be angry about the stats I cite, because they are what they are. There’s nothing me or anyone else can do about them.

None of us have a time machine to turn back the clock and alter historical events to suit our preferred narrative.

[gilgamesh]

I don't care about the stats. I'm well aware of the old Boxing adage of "A good big man beats a good little man"

I just am beyond furious at the idea of people wanting to add a weight class at 225 pounds.

I'd rather see Boxing completely die than for that to happen.

I do recall our previous discussions unfortunately.

I've never once said size was irrelevant. I've always said that somebody achieving the Pinnacle of the sport while being outsized is always memorable and often leads to them becoming a Superstar. Which you can't refute.

[Enlightened-One]

I don't care about the stats. I'm well aware of the old Boxing adage of "A good big man beats a good little man"

I've never once said size was irrelevant.

Other people claimed I was talking utter nonsense about the rarity of small heavyweights achieving success during world title fights over the last twenty years.

So I provided statistics as part of those discussions to justify my claims.

And you decided to participate in the discussion without reviewing the context of my replies. The stats were for them, not you personally.

Anyway, at least we’ve reach some middle-ground, which is good.

Since we both believe that size matters and that a good big ‘un usually beats a good little ‘un.

[gilgamesh]

I don't care about the stats. I'm well aware of the old Boxing adage of "A good big man beats a good little man"

I've never once said size was irrelevant.

Other people claimed I was talking utter nonsense about the rarity of small heavyweights achieving success during world title fights over the last twenty years.

So I provided statistics as part of those discussions to justify my claims.

And you decided to participate in the discussion with reviewing the context of my replies. The stats were for them, not you personally.

Anyway, at least we’ve reach some middle-ground, which is good.

Since we both believe that size matters and that a good big ‘un usually beats a good little ‘un.

But we don't need a new weight class.

I feel so strongly about this that I want the people who want a Super Cruiserweight division to burst into spontaneous combustion.

[Enlightened-One]

I don't care about the stats. I'm well aware of the old Boxing adage of "A good big man beats a good little man"

I've never once said size was irrelevant.

Other people claimed I was talking utter nonsense about the rarity of small heavyweights achieving success during world title fights over the last twenty years.

So I provided statistics as part of those discussions to justify my claims.

And you decided to participate in the discussion with reviewing the context of my replies. The stats were for them, not you personally.

Anyway, at least we’ve reach some middle-ground, which is good.

Since we both believe that size matters and that a good big ‘un usually beats a good little ‘un.

But we don't need a new weight class.

I feel so strongly about this that I want the people who want a Super Cruiserweight division to burst into spontaneous combustion.

I proposed an alternative solution that was strongly inspired by a Dougie Fischer article (from The RING), which doesn’t require the creation of a new weight class...

Whereby the suggestion is to increase the weight limits for light heavyweights from 175lbs to 185lbs and cruiserweights from 200lbs to 215lbs, rather than creating a new 220lbs super-cruiserweight division to cater for small heavyweights.

I also believe we need to go one step further, by also increasing the weight limit slightly for the super-middleweight division (perhaps from 168lbs to to 172lbs) to fill the 25lbs void between middleweight and the new 185lbs light-heavyweight limit.

Something needs to be done to address the massive void in weight between 200lbs cruiserweights and 247lbs heavyweights.

[gilgamesh]

Other people claimed I was talking utter nonsense about the rarity of small heavyweights achieving success during world title fights over the last twenty years.

So I provided statistics as part of those discussions to justify my claims.

And you decided to participate in the discussion with reviewing the context of my replies. The stats were for them, not you personally.

Anyway, at least we’ve reach some middle-ground, which is good.

Since we both believe that size matters and that a good big ‘un usually beats a good little ‘un.

But we don't need a new weight class.

I feel so strongly about this that I want the people who want a Super Cruiserweight division to burst into spontaneous combustion.

I proposed an alternative solution that was strongly inspired by a Dougie Fischer article (from The RING), which doesn’t require the creation of a new weight class...

Whereby the suggestion is to increase the weight limits for light heavyweights from 175lbs to 185lbs and cruiserweights from 200lbs to 215lbs, rather than creating a new 220lbs super-cruiserweight division to cater for small heavyweights.

I also believe we need to go one step further, by also increasing the weight limit slightly for the super-middleweight division (perhaps from 168lbs to to 172lbs) to fill the 25lbs void between middleweight and the new 185lbs light-heavyweight limit.

Something needs to be done to address the massive void in weight between 200lbs cruiserweights and 247lbs heavyweights.

NO GODDAMN YOU! NO!

200 pounds and over ARE F*CKING HEAVYWEIGHTS!!!! YOU PIECE OF SH*T!!!!

[Enlightened-One]

But we don't need a new weight class.

I feel so strongly about this that I want the people who want a Super Cruiserweight division to burst into spontaneous combustion.

I proposed an alternative solution that was strongly inspired by a Dougie Fischer article (from The RING), which doesn’t require the creation of a new weight class...

Whereby the suggestion is to increase the weight limits for light heavyweights from 175lbs to 185lbs and cruiserweights from 200lbs to 215lbs, rather than creating a new 220lbs super-cruiserweight division to cater for small heavyweights.

I also believe we need to go one step further, by also increasing the weight limit slightly for the super-middleweight division (perhaps from 168lbs to to 172lbs) to fill the 25lbs void between middleweight and the new 185lbs light-heavyweight limit.

Something needs to be done to address the massive void in weight between 200lbs cruiserweights and 247lbs heavyweights.

NO GODDAMN YOU! NO!

200 pounds and over ARE F*CKING HEAVYWEIGHTS!!!! YOU PIECE OF SH*T!!!!

I respectfully disagree.

And thank you for your kind, carefully-considered and sublimely eloquent feedback.

[gilgamesh]

I proposed an alternative solution that was strongly inspired by a Dougie Fischer article (from The RING), which doesn’t require the creation of a new weight class...

Whereby the suggestion is to increase the weight limits for light heavyweights from 175lbs to 185lbs and cruiserweights from 200lbs to 215lbs, rather than creating a new 220lbs super-cruiserweight division to cater for small heavyweights.

I also believe we need to go one step further, by also increasing the weight limit slightly for the super-middleweight division (perhaps from 168lbs to to 172lbs) to fill the 25lbs void between middleweight and the new 185lbs light-heavyweight limit.

Something needs to be done to address the massive void in weight between 200lbs cruiserweights and 247lbs heavyweights.

NO GODDAMN YOU! NO!

200 pounds and over ARE F*CKING HEAVYWEIGHTS!!!! YOU PIECE OF SH*T!!!!

I respectfully disagree.

And thank you for your kind, carefully-considered and sublimely eloquent feedback.

F*ck you. Go play in traffic if you can get your fat ass out your front door.

[Tevfik1907]

The real heavyweight champion.

[Thomastearns]

Here's a somewhat different take on things from Richard Dwyer.

Dear Heavyweights, the Cruisers are coming.

[Enlightened-One]

Here's a somewhat different take on things from Richard Dwyer.

Dear Heavyweights, the Cruisers are coming.

Richard Dwyer predicted Roberto Guerrero to beat Floyd Mayweather Jr. He said Canelo had a terrible defence. And he expected Mike Tyson to beat Lennox Lewis.

[Counter-puncher]

[The Gratest]

I'm sensing Gil doesn't want a new weight division and disagrees with EO.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Here's a somewhat different take on things from Richard Dwyer.

Dear Heavyweights, the Cruisers are coming.

Who is this guy, why would anybody care what some bloke in his living room says?

[Paci]

The real heavyweight champion.

p4p greatest ever and too sexy for us mortals

[Syntax Error]

To be fair, 1967 ali was basicaly a modern cruiser, fighting other modern cruisers. he fought most of his carrer as the bigger man and i realy dont think he would be able to beat all the big boys. tyson furry would do a number on him for sure, but so would many others. Statement that will have me mocked for eternity, i think hughie fury could probably beat him...

interestingly, how would Ali go vs the current cruiserweights....

The only realm where Hughie Fury beats 1967 Ali is in an air jabbing contest.

[IRONFIST]

Ali beats the lot of them, twice on a Thursday.

[p4p1]

Am I the only one who gets that if there was a 225lbs division the biggest thing that would happen is that the fat guys that sit over 240 now would diet down to make weight and anyone who’s in shape at around 240 would just cut weight to make 225. That’s just about everyone outside of Fury in the top 10-15.

Or the money isn’t as good in the new division and the best guys that could make the weight don’t bother, leaving the division even more worthless.

[Tevfik1907]

my reaction to %35



They should watch michael jackson clips instead boxing

Did %35 learn their lessons when 34 years old Usyk schooled your ''bigger'' boxer?

Prime Ali between 1963-67 would easily dominate these guys. Even post-prime Frazier-Foreman bout 1970-74 Ali could dominate.

[ValMar]

my reaction to %35



They should watch michael jackson clips instead boxing

Did %35 learn their lessons when 34 years old Usyk schooled your ''bigger'' boxer?

Prime Ali between 1963-67 would easily dominate these guys. Even post-prime Frazier-Foreman bout 1970-74 Ali could dominate.

[vostok]

"A good big man beats a good little man"

Maybe the thing is; a good big man comes rarely whereas a good little man comes frequently. More than often. Relatively more than big ones at least.

Because the more size; likely the less skill, footwork, mobility, reflexes etc. You sacricifice one for another. That's where the equation balances. Or the gap closes.

Fury, Lewis, Bowe, Ortiz, (for me Vitaly arguably).. Who else? (Wlad is another story. He was close.)

So what we have in our hands at the end of the day is; a good little man vs. poor or average, lumbering big man..frequently!

Big good beats little good. But how often we get them?
Cruiserweight division maybe also spoils the statistics of little man in the heavyweight division.

[Crease]

Muhammad beats them all...


Lads, we're talking about Ali here - not wee Billy around the corner...