Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Randyman]

Golden Boy Promotions Suspended By NY Commission
By George Kimball from Sweet Science


NEW YORK --- In recent years Golden Boy Promotions’ relationship with the boxing world has often seemed a case of the tail wagging the dog. Between an ever-expanding client list, a cozy relationship with HBO, the nation’s most powerful cable conglomerate, and institutional control over ratings and even “championships” through its ownership of the onetime “bible of boxing,” The Ring, the multi-tentacled Las Vegas-based company has increasingly appeared to call the tune for U.S. regulatory bodies as well, cajoling GBP-friendly state commissions and bullying those displaying a more independent streak.

But last week one of them bared its own teeth. The 90 year-old New York State Athletic Commission has placed Golden Boy on suspension, meaning that the firm, its Teutonic CEO Richard Schaefer, and its figurehead and namesake Oscar De La Hoya have been indefinitely barred from conducting business in the Empire State.

The unprecedented action was taken after a Friday hearing, which found Golden Boy guilty of deceptive and fraudulent practices in direct violation of the federal Muhammad Ali Act, in connection with the May 15 Amir Khan-Paulie Malignaggi card at the Madison Square Garden Theatre.

The disciplinary action came as a result of some creative accounting with the co-featured bout of that night’s show, in which Kansas prospect Victor Ortiz won a unanimous decision over 38 year-old former lightweight champion Nate Campbell. Although HBO had agreed to underwrite a total purse of $750,000 for the fight, Campbell was paid just $125,000, Ortiz ($100,000) even less. The half-million dollar discrepancy was apparently concealed from both of the boxers, and, had Golden Boy had its way, would have been concealed from the NYSAC as well, but unlike some of its brethren commissions, New York refused to roll over and play dead.

The Ali act prohibits concealing such usurious arrangements from the hired help – ie, the boxers; moreover, to be in compliance with the statute, Golden Boy would have had to file the contractual particulars with either the NYSAC or with the Association of Boxing Commissioners. It did neither, and further incurred the wrath of the commission by ignoring repeated demands for the paperwork.

What happened to the missing half-mil remains a matter of conjecture, but there are really only three possibilities, in my opinion.

One, obviously, is that Golden Boy simply skimmed the money off the top and lined its own coffers.

Another is that Golden Boy, which had earlier poached, in the opinion of some fight game insiders, Ortiz and Campbell from their previous promoters, used the part of the windfall produced by short-changing the fighters to pay reparations to Bob Arum (Ortiz) and Don King (Campbell). If that was indeed the case, money used to stave off potential lawsuits is supposed to come from the promoter’s end, not by dipping into the boxers’ purses.

The third possibility is that Golden Boy had so overreached in its guarantee to Khan (on a night when there were nearly 1,000 unsold seats in the Theatre) that they made up the difference by diverting two-thirds of the intended Ortiz-Campbell purse to keep the Boy from Bolton happy. Should that prove to be the case, the New York suspension could only be the beginning of Golden Boy’s worries: Golden Boy’s contract with DiBella Entertainment for the Khan-Malignaggi main event called for a 60/40 split of all such revenues.

If it were proven that the missing money was funneled straight to Khan, and concealed from Malignaggi and DiBella, it could well expose Schaefer and Golden Boy to criminal charges.

Whatever the purpose of the manipulation of the Ortiz-Campbell purse might have been, it seems inconceivable that the deceit could have taken place without HBO’s knowledge, but – even though they bankroll Golden Boy’s shows and exercise the right of approval in selecting opponents – the network is technically not a “promoter” and is hence not subject to the provisions of the Ali act.

By the same token, it seems extremely unlikely that the skullduggery could have taken place without some complicity on the part of Shelly Finkel, who was both Ortiz’ de facto manager and a Golden Boy consultant. Even though Ortiz’ name is included on the client list posted on his website, Finkel is technically an “advisor” and not a manager, and hence not subject to the normal constraints imposed by the Muhammad Ali act.

GBP was already in hot water with the New York commission as a result of the unseemly riot perpetrated by an army of Khan supporters who invaded the May 14 weigh-in, conducted at the Essex House on Central Park South. Although attendance at the weigh-in was supposed to be limited to NYSAC officials, the fighters and their camps, and the press, it seemed plain enough that the presence of an extra hundred or so hooligans had been encouraged by Golden Boy. Although Schaefer claimed to Chairman Melvina Lathan that he had no idea where the interlopers came from, Golden Boy had in fact stationed a pair of bikini-clad Tecate Girls to hand out hundreds of souvenir boxing-glove key-chains at the weigh-in.

Arranging safe passage to the weigh-in for the members of Khan’s Army – and even lying about it after the fact – might have gotten Golden Boy slapped around a bit by the commission, but a tongue-lashing and perhaps a modest fine would have been the end of it. Given the magnitude of the irregularities which subsequently came to light, Golden Boy’s part in the weigh-in fiasco was never even addressed at Friday’s hearing.

The sanctioning of Golden Boy was defined as an “administrative suspension” in details that have already been forwarded to FightFax. Other state regulatory bodies are not automatically obliged to reciprocally honor the New York action. Rather, states entertaining requests for dates from Golden Boy are supposed to contact the NYSAC for an explanation of the particulars, after which they determine their own course of action.

Although some jurisdictions may cite the New York example and think better of approving future Golden Boy shows, the expectation is that in states where Schaefer & Co. already exert a profound influence, the suspension will not be an impediment. But Golden Boy has been put on notice that its days functioning as a law unto itself may be numbered.

Very interesting . . . the answer to whether Golden Boy bought off Arum and King will come if either Ortiz or Campbell file suit against Gold Boy Promotions as an aggrieved third party beneficiary to the contract between HBO and GB. If I represented either Ortiz or Campbell, I can guarantee that a lawsuit would be in the works. Next, I predict a Justice Department investigation for anti-trust violations.

Just what boxing needs - another scandal.

I thought that since de la Hoya was himself as former fighter, he would treat other boxers with civility and honesty. Such is the naivety of this country lawyer.

I'm not sure what to think. As a fan of Oscar and as someone who has met him on several occasions and found him to be a decent guy, I will be profoundly disappointed if it turns out he was directly involved.

Randy

[Randyman]

Good morning all, Frank was there ever any offers from the Mancini people for a fight with Tony ? , now that fight had the makings of a war, neither man was a dancer Tony was by far the bigger puncher, I think a lot of people including myself didn't give Mancini enough credit but it is hard to question his heart, I just feel though that Mancini's wide open style was made for a puncher like Tony, something like a lightweight version of Frazier vs Foreman.

My money would be on Tony. He could bang. Mancini was a tough kid but he took a lot of hits. He was, however, well managed. They made the most of his father's story and that had a lot to do with his career, in my opinion.

I have mixed feelings about Mancini, it's petty but he irked me one day. It was 1993, there was a benefit for Johnny Chavez, a boxer that lost all or most of his vision as a result of a fight. It was in Azusa. There were lots of fighters from the 60's, 70's and 80's. I can't remember them all right now but Frankie Baltazar Jr was there, so was Danny Lopez, Alberto Davila, Ruben Castillo and Mike Quarry just to name a few. The purpose was to raise money and give the fans a chance to talk with and get some autographs and have a good time.

There was small line where Mancini was sitting. His father was sitting next to him. My son saw him and recognized him and said "Dad, let's go get his autograph". So we stood in line and when the guy in front of me walked away, I moved up. Mancini grabbed his hamburger and completely ignored me. He would not so much as say excuse me. I looked at his dad. he looked embarrassed. I said "hey, my son's waiting for an autograph". He looked up, put down his hamburger, obviously bothered, grabbed the event program, in about as rude a way as he could. His father was shrinking by the second. He handed the program back to my son, making it clear to me that I was bothering him. He went back to eating his hamburger. My son was oblivious to all of it. He was just happy to get Mancini's autograph.

I kid you not, I was ready to tell him to go "F*ck himself" and if it hadn't have been for my son and his father, I would have. I don't toss those words around easy either. So, while the rest of the boxing world might think highly of Ray Mancini, in my eyes he is a little man, in terms of character. I could see if he was in a restaurant, eating dinner with his family but this was not the case. The whole event was for fans.

Contrast that with all the other fighters that took the time to make my son feel appreciated as a fan, Frankie Jr among them. There is class and there is perceived class. There, I got that off my chest!!

Randy

P.S. We didn't let him ruin our day. My son had a great time.

[raylawpc]

Golden Boy Promotions Suspended By NY Commission
By George Kimball from Sweet Science


NEW YORK --- In recent years Golden Boy Promotions’ relationship with the boxing world has often seemed a case of the tail wagging the dog. Between an ever-expanding client list, a cozy relationship with HBO, the nation’s most powerful cable conglomerate, and institutional control over ratings and even “championships” through its ownership of the onetime “bible of boxing,” The Ring, the multi-tentacled Las Vegas-based company has increasingly appeared to call the tune for U.S. regulatory bodies as well, cajoling GBP-friendly state commissions and bullying those displaying a more independent streak.

But last week one of them bared its own teeth. The 90 year-old New York State Athletic Commission has placed Golden Boy on suspension, meaning that the firm, its Teutonic CEO Richard Schaefer, and its figurehead and namesake Oscar De La Hoya have been indefinitely barred from conducting business in the Empire State.

The unprecedented action was taken after a Friday hearing, which found Golden Boy guilty of deceptive and fraudulent practices in direct violation of the federal Muhammad Ali Act, in connection with the May 15 Amir Khan-Paulie Malignaggi card at the Madison Square Garden Theatre.

The disciplinary action came as a result of some creative accounting with the co-featured bout of that night’s show, in which Kansas prospect Victor Ortiz won a unanimous decision over 38 year-old former lightweight champion Nate Campbell. Although HBO had agreed to underwrite a total purse of $750,000 for the fight, Campbell was paid just $125,000, Ortiz ($100,000) even less. The half-million dollar discrepancy was apparently concealed from both of the boxers, and, had Golden Boy had its way, would have been concealed from the NYSAC as well, but unlike some of its brethren commissions, New York refused to roll over and play dead.

The Ali act prohibits concealing such usurious arrangements from the hired help – ie, the boxers; moreover, to be in compliance with the statute, Golden Boy would have had to file the contractual particulars with either the NYSAC or with the Association of Boxing Commissioners. It did neither, and further incurred the wrath of the commission by ignoring repeated demands for the paperwork.

What happened to the missing half-mil remains a matter of conjecture, but there are really only three possibilities, in my opinion.

One, obviously, is that Golden Boy simply skimmed the money off the top and lined its own coffers.

Another is that Golden Boy, which had earlier poached, in the opinion of some fight game insiders, Ortiz and Campbell from their previous promoters, used the part of the windfall produced by short-changing the fighters to pay reparations to Bob Arum (Ortiz) and Don King (Campbell). If that was indeed the case, money used to stave off potential lawsuits is supposed to come from the promoter’s end, not by dipping into the boxers’ purses.

The third possibility is that Golden Boy had so overreached in its guarantee to Khan (on a night when there were nearly 1,000 unsold seats in the Theatre) that they made up the difference by diverting two-thirds of the intended Ortiz-Campbell purse to keep the Boy from Bolton happy. Should that prove to be the case, the New York suspension could only be the beginning of Golden Boy’s worries: Golden Boy’s contract with DiBella Entertainment for the Khan-Malignaggi main event called for a 60/40 split of all such revenues.

If it were proven that the missing money was funneled straight to Khan, and concealed from Malignaggi and DiBella, it could well expose Schaefer and Golden Boy to criminal charges.

Whatever the purpose of the manipulation of the Ortiz-Campbell purse might have been, it seems inconceivable that the deceit could have taken place without HBO’s knowledge, but – even though they bankroll Golden Boy’s shows and exercise the right of approval in selecting opponents – the network is technically not a “promoter” and is hence not subject to the provisions of the Ali act.

By the same token, it seems extremely unlikely that the skullduggery could have taken place without some complicity on the part of Shelly Finkel, who was both Ortiz’ de facto manager and a Golden Boy consultant. Even though Ortiz’ name is included on the client list posted on his website, Finkel is technically an “advisor” and not a manager, and hence not subject to the normal constraints imposed by the Muhammad Ali act.

GBP was already in hot water with the New York commission as a result of the unseemly riot perpetrated by an army of Khan supporters who invaded the May 14 weigh-in, conducted at the Essex House on Central Park South. Although attendance at the weigh-in was supposed to be limited to NYSAC officials, the fighters and their camps, and the press, it seemed plain enough that the presence of an extra hundred or so hooligans had been encouraged by Golden Boy. Although Schaefer claimed to Chairman Melvina Lathan that he had no idea where the interlopers came from, Golden Boy had in fact stationed a pair of bikini-clad Tecate Girls to hand out hundreds of souvenir boxing-glove key-chains at the weigh-in.

Arranging safe passage to the weigh-in for the members of Khan’s Army – and even lying about it after the fact – might have gotten Golden Boy slapped around a bit by the commission, but a tongue-lashing and perhaps a modest fine would have been the end of it. Given the magnitude of the irregularities which subsequently came to light, Golden Boy’s part in the weigh-in fiasco was never even addressed at Friday’s hearing.

The sanctioning of Golden Boy was defined as an “administrative suspension” in details that have already been forwarded to FightFax. Other state regulatory bodies are not automatically obliged to reciprocally honor the New York action. Rather, states entertaining requests for dates from Golden Boy are supposed to contact the NYSAC for an explanation of the particulars, after which they determine their own course of action.

Although some jurisdictions may cite the New York example and think better of approving future Golden Boy shows, the expectation is that in states where Schaefer & Co. already exert a profound influence, the suspension will not be an impediment. But Golden Boy has been put on notice that its days functioning as a law unto itself may be numbered.

Very interesting . . . the answer to whether Golden Boy bought off Arum and King will come if either Ortiz or Campbell file suit against Gold Boy Promotions as an aggrieved third party beneficiary to the contract between HBO and GB. If I represented either Ortiz or Campbell, I can guarantee that a lawsuit would be in the works. Next, I predict a Justice Department investigation for anti-trust violations.

Just what boxing needs - another scandal.

I thought that since de la Hoya was himself as former fighter, he would treat other boxers with civility and honesty. Such is the naivety of this country lawyer.

I'm not sure what to think. As a fan of Oscar and as someone who has met him on several occasions and found him to be a decent guy, I will be profoundly disappointed if it turns out he was directly involved.

Randy

I hope you are right Randy. I really did think that de la Hoya would look out for the fighters. I hope it turns out he had no direct involvement.

[kikibalt]

Good morning all, Frank was there ever any offers from the Mancini people for a fight with Tony ? , now that fight had the makings of a war, neither man was a dancer Tony was by far the bigger puncher, I think a lot of people including myself didn't give Mancini enough credit but it is hard to question his heart, I just feel though that Mancini's wide open style was made for a puncher like Tony, something like a lightweight version of Frazier vs Foreman.

My money would be on Tony. He could bang. Mancini was a tough kid but he took a lot of hits. He was, however, well managed. They made the most of his father's story and that had a lot to do with his career, in my opinion.

I have mixed feelings about Mancini, it's petty but he irked me one day. It was 1993, there was a benefit for Johnny Chavez, a boxer that lost all or most of his vision as a result of a fight. It was in Azusa. There were lots of fighters from the 60's, 70's and 80's. I can't remember them all right now but Frankie Baltazar Jr was there, so was Danny Lopez, Alberto Davila, Ruben Castillo and Mike Quarry just to name a few. The purpose was to raise money and give the fans a chance to talk with and get some autographs and have a good time.

There was small line where Mancini was sitting. His father was sitting next to him. My son saw him and recognized him and said "Dad, let's go get his autograph". So we stood in line and when the guy in front of me walked away, I moved up. Mancini grabbed his hamburger and completely ignored me. He would not so much as say excuse me. I looked at his dad. he looked embarrassed. I said "hey, my son's waiting for an autograph". He looked up, put down his hamburger, obviously bothered, grabbed the event program, in about as rude a way as he could. His father was shrinking by the second. He handed the program back to my son, making it clear to me that I was bothering him. He went back to eating his hamburger. My son was oblivious to all of it. He was just happy to get Mancini's autograph.

I kid you not, I was ready to tell him to go "F*ck himself" and if it hadn't have been for my son and his father, I would have. I don't toss those words around easy either. So, while the rest of the boxing world might think highly of Ray Mancini, in my eyes he is a little man, in terms of character. I could see if he was in a restaurant, eating dinner with his family but this was not the case. The whole event was for fans.

Contrast that with all the other fighters that took the time to make my son feel appreciated as a fan, Frankie Jr among them. There is class and there is perceived class. There, I got that off my chest!!

Randy

P.S. We didn't let him ruin our day. My son had a great time.

Some fighters do get all caught up in themselves. I away told my sons a quote that I found somewhere in the long ago past.

"Always be nice to the people you meet on your way up the ladder of success, because they will be the same people you will meet on your way down the ladder"

[Randyman]

Good morning all, Frank was there ever any offers from the Mancini people for a fight with Tony ? , now that fight had the makings of a war, neither man was a dancer Tony was by far the bigger puncher, I think a lot of people including myself didn't give Mancini enough credit but it is hard to question his heart, I just feel though that Mancini's wide open style was made for a puncher like Tony, something like a lightweight version of Frazier vs Foreman.

My money would be on Tony. He could bang. Mancini was a tough kid but he took a lot of hits. He was, however, well managed. They made the most of his father's story and that had a lot to do with his career, in my opinion.

I have mixed feelings about Mancini, it's petty but he irked me one day. It was 1993, there was a benefit for Johnny Chavez, a boxer that lost all or most of his vision as a result of a fight. It was in Azusa. There were lots of fighters from the 60's, 70's and 80's. I can't remember them all right now but Frankie Baltazar Jr was there, so was Danny Lopez, Alberto Davila, Ruben Castillo and Mike Quarry just to name a few. The purpose was to raise money and give the fans a chance to talk with and get some autographs and have a good time.

There was small line where Mancini was sitting. His father was sitting next to him. My son saw him and recognized him and said "Dad, let's go get his autograph". So we stood in line and when the guy in front of me walked away, I moved up. Mancini grabbed his hamburger and completely ignored me. He would not so much as say excuse me. I looked at his dad. he looked embarrassed. I said "hey, my son's waiting for an autograph". He looked up, put down his hamburger, obviously bothered, grabbed the event program, in about as rude a way as he could. His father was shrinking by the second. He handed the program back to my son, making it clear to me that I was bothering him. He went back to eating his hamburger. My son was oblivious to all of it. He was just happy to get Mancini's autograph.

I kid you not, I was ready to tell him to go "F*ck himself" and if it hadn't have been for my son and his father, I would have. I don't toss those words around easy either. So, while the rest of the boxing world might think highly of Ray Mancini, in my eyes he is a little man, in terms of character. I could see if he was in a restaurant, eating dinner with his family but this was not the case. The whole event was for fans.

Contrast that with all the other fighters that took the time to make my son feel appreciated as a fan, Frankie Jr among them. There is class and there is perceived class. There, I got that off my chest!!

Randy

P.S. We didn't let him ruin our day. My son had a great time.

Some fighters do get all caught up in themselves. I away told my sons a quote that I found somewhere in the long ago past.

"Always be nice to the people you meet on your way up the ladder of success, because they will be the same people you will meet on your way down the ladder"

Words to live by Frank. Some guys learn it early on, others late in life and some never learn.

About that day: My son had such a great time that day. Now that he's all grown up and living out of the state, that day has become one of my favorite memories with my son. Frankie took the time to sign for my son and I that day. He laughed and joked for a few minutes and there wasn't an ounce of pretensions about him. That's why I am so genuinely happy to see him at all the functions. Frankie is a class act. All the other guys were great. My son remembers that day well.

Randy

[kikibalt]

My money would be on Tony. He could bang. Mancini was a tough kid but he took a lot of hits. He was, however, well managed. They made the most of his father's story and that had a lot to do with his career, in my opinion.

I have mixed feelings about Mancini, it's petty but he irked me one day. It was 1993, there was a benefit for Johnny Chavez, a boxer that lost all or most of his vision as a result of a fight. It was in Azusa. There were lots of fighters from the 60's, 70's and 80's. I can't remember them all right now but Frankie Baltazar Jr was there, so was Danny Lopez, Alberto Davila, Ruben Castillo and Mike Quarry just to name a few. The purpose was to raise money and give the fans a chance to talk with and get some autographs and have a good time.

There was small line where Mancini was sitting. His father was sitting next to him. My son saw him and recognized him and said "Dad, let's go get his autograph". So we stood in line and when the guy in front of me walked away, I moved up. Mancini grabbed his hamburger and completely ignored me. He would not so much as say excuse me. I looked at his dad. he looked embarrassed. I said "hey, my son's waiting for an autograph". He looked up, put down his hamburger, obviously bothered, grabbed the event program, in about as rude a way as he could. His father was shrinking by the second. He handed the program back to my son, making it clear to me that I was bothering him. He went back to eating his hamburger. My son was oblivious to all of it. He was just happy to get Mancini's autograph.

I kid you not, I was ready to tell him to go "F*ck himself" and if it hadn't have been for my son and his father, I would have. I don't toss those words around easy either. So, while the rest of the boxing world might think highly of Ray Mancini, in my eyes he is a little man, in terms of character. I could see if he was in a restaurant, eating dinner with his family but this was not the case. The whole event was for fans.

Contrast that with all the other fighters that took the time to make my son feel appreciated as a fan, Frankie Jr among them. There is class and there is perceived class. There, I got that off my chest!!

Randy

P.S. We didn't let him ruin our day. My son had a great time.

Some fighters do get all caught up in themselves. I away told my sons a quote that I found somewhere in the long ago past.

"Always be nice to the people you meet on your way up the ladder of success, because they will be the same people you will meet on your way down the ladder"

Words to live by Frank. Some guys learn it early on, others late in life and some never learn.

About that day: My son had such a great time that day. Now that he's all grown up and living out of the state, that day has become one of my favorite memories with my son. Frankie took the time to sign for my son and I that day. He laughed and joked for a few minutes and there wasn't an ounce of pretensions about him. That's why I am so genuinely happy to see him at all the functions. Frankie is a class act. All the other guys were great. My son remembers that day well.

Randy

[THEHAMMER321]

right now on A and E,Rocky Lockridge on a documentary I am gonna watch it.

[bennie]

Good morning all, Frank was there ever any offers from the Mancini people for a fight with Tony ? , now that fight had the makings of a war, neither man was a dancer Tony was by far the bigger puncher, I think a lot of people including myself didn't give Mancini enough credit but it is hard to question his heart, I just feel though that Mancini's wide open style was made for a puncher like Tony, something like a lightweight version of Frazier vs Foreman.

My money would be on Tony. He could bang. Mancini was a tough kid but he took a lot of hits. He was, however, well managed. They made the most of his father's story and that had a lot to do with his career, in my opinion.

I have mixed feelings about Mancini, it's petty but he irked me one day. It was 1993, there was a benefit for Johnny Chavez, a boxer that lost all or most of his vision as a result of a fight. It was in Azusa. There were lots of fighters from the 60's, 70's and 80's. I can't remember them all right now but Frankie Baltazar Jr was there, so was Danny Lopez, Alberto Davila, Ruben Castillo and Mike Quarry just to name a few. The purpose was to raise money and give the fans a chance to talk with and get some autographs and have a good time.

There was small line where Mancini was sitting. His father was sitting next to him. My son saw him and recognized him and said "Dad, let's go get his autograph". So we stood in line and when the guy in front of me walked away, I moved up. Mancini grabbed his hamburger and completely ignored me. He would not so much as say excuse me. I looked at his dad. he looked embarrassed. I said "hey, my son's waiting for an autograph". He looked up, put down his hamburger, obviously bothered, grabbed the event program, in about as rude a way as he could. His father was shrinking by the second. He handed the program back to my son, making it clear to me that I was bothering him. He went back to eating his hamburger. My son was oblivious to all of it. He was just happy to get Mancini's autograph.

I kid you not, I was ready to tell him to go "F*ck himself" and if it hadn't have been for my son and his father, I would have. I don't toss those words around easy either. So, while the rest of the boxing world might think highly of Ray Mancini, in my eyes he is a little man, in terms of character. I could see if he was in a restaurant, eating dinner with his family but this was not the case. The whole event was for fans.

Contrast that with all the other fighters that took the time to make my son feel appreciated as a fan, Frankie Jr among them. There is class and there is perceived class. There, I got that off my chest!!

Randy

P.S. We didn't let him ruin our day. My son had a great time.

What a prick. You should have told him you enjoyed his fights with Arguello, Camacho, Haugen and Bramble.

[bennie]

right now on A and E,Rocky Lockridge on a documentary I am gonna watch it.

Lockridge was a really good fighter. I hope he's pulling himself together.

[Chuck1052]

I was saddened when I read an article about Rocky Lockridge and his homeless situation not too long ago. About thirty years ago, I saw Juan Laporte knock out Rocky at the Showboat in Las Vegas.

- Chuck Johnston

[raylawpc]

Good morning all, Frank was there ever any offers from the Mancini people for a fight with Tony ? , now that fight had the makings of a war, neither man was a dancer Tony was by far the bigger puncher, I think a lot of people including myself didn't give Mancini enough credit but it is hard to question his heart, I just feel though that Mancini's wide open style was made for a puncher like Tony, something like a lightweight version of Frazier vs Foreman.

My money would be on Tony. He could bang. Mancini was a tough kid but he took a lot of hits. He was, however, well managed. They made the most of his father's story and that had a lot to do with his career, in my opinion.

I have mixed feelings about Mancini, it's petty but he irked me one day. It was 1993, there was a benefit for Johnny Chavez, a boxer that lost all or most of his vision as a result of a fight. It was in Azusa. There were lots of fighters from the 60's, 70's and 80's. I can't remember them all right now but Frankie Baltazar Jr was there, so was Danny Lopez, Alberto Davila, Ruben Castillo and Mike Quarry just to name a few. The purpose was to raise money and give the fans a chance to talk with and get some autographs and have a good time.

There was small line where Mancini was sitting. His father was sitting next to him. My son saw him and recognized him and said "Dad, let's go get his autograph". So we stood in line and when the guy in front of me walked away, I moved up. Mancini grabbed his hamburger and completely ignored me. He would not so much as say excuse me. I looked at his dad. he looked embarrassed. I said "hey, my son's waiting for an autograph". He looked up, put down his hamburger, obviously bothered, grabbed the event program, in about as rude a way as he could. His father was shrinking by the second. He handed the program back to my son, making it clear to me that I was bothering him. He went back to eating his hamburger. My son was oblivious to all of it. He was just happy to get Mancini's autograph.

I kid you not, I was ready to tell him to go "F*ck himself" and if it hadn't have been for my son and his father, I would have. I don't toss those words around easy either. So, while the rest of the boxing world might think highly of Ray Mancini, in my eyes he is a little man, in terms of character. I could see if he was in a restaurant, eating dinner with his family but this was not the case. The whole event was for fans.

Contrast that with all the other fighters that took the time to make my son feel appreciated as a fan, Frankie Jr among them. There is class and there is perceived class. There, I got that off my chest!!

Randy

P.S. We didn't let him ruin our day. My son had a great time.

I am going to say something nice about my friend Sean. The last time I was in Oklahoma City, Sean and I met at a Starbuck’s. Now, understand, although Sean and I had communicated by phone or e-mail, this was the first time either of us had seen the other in many, many years. So, I like to think he was looking forward to seeing me and much as I was him. As I went into the Starbuck’s and as Sean was approaching me, a man walked up to him and said, “Aren’t you Sean O’Grady?” When Sean acknowledged that he was, the man introduced himself and his ten-year-old son, and told his son, “This guy was a real boxing champion.” Sean spent a few minutes with them, but really focused on the boy asking him where he went to school, if he liked sports, etc. Sean was there in a coffee shop to meet with me, and he could have blown them off. But he didn’t. I was proud of him.

[THEHAMMER321]

Replying to Randy's experience with Ray Mancini, I am surprised that Mancini is full of himself, I always figured him to be a down to earth kind of guy but I guess you never know till you meet them how people will handle there fans, but people like that don't want to acknowledge that the fans are the people who make you famous.

[THEHAMMER321]

Tom on the flip side of Ray Mancini its nice to hear that Sean is a class act, it always makes me feel good when a person of note goes out of there way to make another person especially a kid feel like they matter.

[iskigoe]

Frank here is the author of your quote

Wilson Mizner (May 19, 1876 – April 3, 1933) was an American playwright, raconteur, and entrepreneur. His best-known plays are The Deep Purple, produced in 1910, and The Greyhound, produced in 1912. He was manager and co-owner of The Brown Derby restaurant in Los Angeles, California, and was affiliated with his brother, Addison Mizner, in a series of scams and picaresque misadventures that inspired Stephen Sondheim's Bounce!.

Be nice to people on the way up because you'll meet them on the way down.

Tell 'em to count to ten over him and he'll get up.
On hearing that his prizefighter, Stanley Ketchel, was dying of gunshot wounds.

You can't be a rascal for 40 years and then cop a plea the last minute. God keeps better books than that.

Faith is a wonderful thing, but doubt gets you an education

Life's a tough proposition, and the first hundred years are the hardest.

A fellow who is always declaring he's no fool usually has his suspicions.

Don't talk about yourself; it will be done when you leave

Gambling: The sure way of getting nothing for something.

The most efficient water power in the world - women's tears.

Those who welcome death have only tried it from the ears up

To my embarrassment I was born in bed with a lady.

[Panzerfaust]

Tom , whats Sean up to these days? I read something about him recently, but just cant remember what! I think it was something current .


Leaving for LA the third of august, the days cant go by fast enough

[raylawpc]

Tom , whats Sean up to these days? I read something about him recently, but just cant remember what! I think it was something current .


Leaving for LA the third of august, the days cant go by fast enough

Sean is no longer involved in boxing. He and his wife Robin work through NAI Sullivan Group in Oklahoma City, and offer sales, leasing, development and property management for all types of commercial real estate in the central Oklahoma area. Sean works primarily with industrial properties, and Robin is involved mostly with retail properties - especially shopping centers. They have one son, Chase.

Here is a link to an article on Sean and Robin, although the article is about six years old: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... ntent;col1

Careers real estate apparently run in the family. Sean's sisters Colleen and Rosie are involved in the real estate business in Houston and LA respectively.

[Panzerfaust]

Tom , whats Sean up to these days? I read something about him recently, but just cant remember what! I think it was something current .


Leaving for LA the third of august, the days cant go by fast enough

Sean is no longer involved in boxing. He and his wife Robin work through NAI Sullivan Group in Oklahoma City, and offer sales, leasing, development and property management for all types of commercial real estate in the central Oklahoma area. Sean works primarily with industrial properties, and Robin is involved mostly with retail properties - especially shopping centers. They have one son, Chase.

damn my soggy brain i got to find that article or what it was

[Randyman]

Good morning all, Frank was there ever any offers from the Mancini people for a fight with Tony ? , now that fight had the makings of a war, neither man was a dancer Tony was by far the bigger puncher, I think a lot of people including myself didn't give Mancini enough credit but it is hard to question his heart, I just feel though that Mancini's wide open style was made for a puncher like Tony, something like a lightweight version of Frazier vs Foreman.

My money would be on Tony. He could bang. Mancini was a tough kid but he took a lot of hits. He was, however, well managed. They made the most of his father's story and that had a lot to do with his career, in my opinion.

I have mixed feelings about Mancini, it's petty but he irked me one day. It was 1993, there was a benefit for Johnny Chavez, a boxer that lost all or most of his vision as a result of a fight. It was in Azusa. There were lots of fighters from the 60's, 70's and 80's. I can't remember them all right now but Frankie Baltazar Jr was there, so was Danny Lopez, Alberto Davila, Ruben Castillo and Mike Quarry just to name a few. The purpose was to raise money and give the fans a chance to talk with and get some autographs and have a good time.

There was small line where Mancini was sitting. His father was sitting next to him. My son saw him and recognized him and said "Dad, let's go get his autograph". So we stood in line and when the guy in front of me walked away, I moved up. Mancini grabbed his hamburger and completely ignored me. He would not so much as say excuse me. I looked at his dad. he looked embarrassed. I said "hey, my son's waiting for an autograph". He looked up, put down his hamburger, obviously bothered, grabbed the event program, in about as rude a way as he could. His father was shrinking by the second. He handed the program back to my son, making it clear to me that I was bothering him. He went back to eating his hamburger. My son was oblivious to all of it. He was just happy to get Mancini's autograph.

I kid you not, I was ready to tell him to go "F*ck himself" and if it hadn't have been for my son and his father, I would have. I don't toss those words around easy either. So, while the rest of the boxing world might think highly of Ray Mancini, in my eyes he is a little man, in terms of character. I could see if he was in a restaurant, eating dinner with his family but this was not the case. The whole event was for fans.

Contrast that with all the other fighters that took the time to make my son feel appreciated as a fan, Frankie Jr among them. There is class and there is perceived class. There, I got that off my chest!!

Randy

P.S. We didn't let him ruin our day. My son had a great time.

I am going to say something nice about my friend Sean. The last time I was in Oklahoma City, Sean and I met at a Starbuck’s. Now, understand, although Sean and I had communicated by phone or e-mail, this was the first time either of us had seen the other in many, many years. So, I like to think he was looking forward to seeing me and much as I was him. As I went into the Starbuck’s and as Sean was approaching me, a man walked up to him and said, “Aren’t you Sean O’Grady?” When Sean acknowledged that he was, the man introduced himself and his ten-year-old son, and told his son, “This guy was a real boxing champion.” Sean spent a few minutes with them, but really focused on the boy asking him where he went to school, if he liked sports, etc. Sean was there in a coffee shop to meet with me, and he could have blown them off. But he didn’t. I was proud of him.

Tom, I'm glad to hear that about Sean. That's not just the mark of a first class athlete and champion but of a real man. You can tell him I said so.

I might have been a little harsh on Mancini and to be fair, he may no longer be like that, we all get a little wiser as we age, Mancini included or he may just have had a bad day, who knows? Still it changed my perception of him. It's nothing I dwell on, I just mentioned it because his name came up.

Randy

[raylawpc]

Tom , whats Sean up to these days? I read something about him recently, but just cant remember what! I think it was something current .


Leaving for LA the third of august, the days cant go by fast enough

Sean is no longer involved in boxing. He and his wife Robin work through NAI Sullivan Group in Oklahoma City, and offer sales, leasing, development and property management for all types of commercial real estate in the central Oklahoma area. Sean works primarily with industrial properties, and Robin is involved mostly with retail properties - especially shopping centers. They have one son, Chase.

damn my soggy brain i got to find that article or what it was

I added some stuff to my original post. Also, there was something in January (I think) in Doghouse Boxing about Sean - an interview, I believe. Maybe that's what you are thinking about.

[Randyman]

Good morning all, Frank was there ever any offers from the Mancini people for a fight with Tony ? , now that fight had the makings of a war, neither man was a dancer Tony was by far the bigger puncher, I think a lot of people including myself didn't give Mancini enough credit but it is hard to question his heart, I just feel though that Mancini's wide open style was made for a puncher like Tony, something like a lightweight version of Frazier vs Foreman.

My money would be on Tony. He could bang. Mancini was a tough kid but he took a lot of hits. He was, however, well managed. They made the most of his father's story and that had a lot to do with his career, in my opinion.

I have mixed feelings about Mancini, it's petty but he irked me one day. It was 1993, there was a benefit for Johnny Chavez, a boxer that lost all or most of his vision as a result of a fight. It was in Azusa. There were lots of fighters from the 60's, 70's and 80's. I can't remember them all right now but Frankie Baltazar Jr was there, so was Danny Lopez, Alberto Davila, Ruben Castillo and Mike Quarry just to name a few. The purpose was to raise money and give the fans a chance to talk with and get some autographs and have a good time.

There was small line where Mancini was sitting. His father was sitting next to him. My son saw him and recognized him and said "Dad, let's go get his autograph". So we stood in line and when the guy in front of me walked away, I moved up. Mancini grabbed his hamburger and completely ignored me. He would not so much as say excuse me. I looked at his dad. he looked embarrassed. I said "hey, my son's waiting for an autograph". He looked up, put down his hamburger, obviously bothered, grabbed the event program, in about as rude a way as he could. His father was shrinking by the second. He handed the program back to my son, making it clear to me that I was bothering him. He went back to eating his hamburger. My son was oblivious to all of it. He was just happy to get Mancini's autograph.

I kid you not, I was ready to tell him to go "F*ck himself" and if it hadn't have been for my son and his father, I would have. I don't toss those words around easy either. So, while the rest of the boxing world might think highly of Ray Mancini, in my eyes he is a little man, in terms of character. I could see if he was in a restaurant, eating dinner with his family but this was not the case. The whole event was for fans.

Contrast that with all the other fighters that took the time to make my son feel appreciated as a fan, Frankie Jr among them. There is class and there is perceived class. There, I got that off my chest!!

Randy

P.S. We didn't let him ruin our day. My son had a great time.

What a prick. You should have told him you enjoyed his fights with Arguello, Camacho, Haugen and Bramble.

If I was a quick enough thinker I might have. That might have been too low a blow though.

Randy

[kikibalt]

Frank here is the author of your quote

Wilson Mizner (May 19, 1876 – April 3, 1933) was an American playwright, raconteur, and entrepreneur. His best-known plays are The Deep Purple, produced in 1910, and The Greyhound, produced in 1912. He was manager and co-owner of The Brown Derby restaurant in Los Angeles, California, and was affiliated with his brother, Addison Mizner, in a series of scams and picaresque misadventures that inspired Stephen Sondheim's Bounce!.

Be nice to people on the way up because you'll meet them on the way down.

Tell 'em to count to ten over him and he'll get up.
On hearing that his prizefighter, Stanley Ketchel, was dying of gunshot wounds.

You can't be a rascal for 40 years and then cop a plea the last minute. God keeps better books than that.

Faith is a wonderful thing, but doubt gets you an education

Life's a tough proposition, and the first hundred years are the hardest.

A fellow who is always declaring he's no fool usually has his suspicions.

Don't talk about yourself; it will be done when you leave

Gambling: The sure way of getting nothing for something.

The most efficient water power in the world - women's tears.

Those who welcome death have only tried it from the ears up

To my embarrassment I was born in bed with a lady.

Thanks Kevin....

[kikibalt]

Quote From Ted Sares new book. "Planet Boxing"...Page 92

"Win, lose or draw, Mando Ramos fought all of his fights with heart.
What more could we asked of him"
Randy De La O

[Randyman]

Quote From Ted Sares new book. "Planet Boxing"...Page 92

"Win, lose or draw, Mando Ramos fought all of his fights with heart.
What more could we asked of him"
Randy De La O

Are you pulling my leg?

[kikibalt]

Quote From Ted Sares new book. "Planet Boxing"...Page 92

"Win, lose or draw, Mando Ramos fought all of his fights with heart.
What more could we asked of him"
Randy De La O

Are you pulling my leg?

No, not at all, he send me the book and he has a chapter titled "Los Vatos of Southern California" and in that chapter is where your quote is.

[kikibalt]

Its a 399 page book, he sell them for $15.00 + postage, I have his email if you would like to buy one.