BoxRec

Bunky Aikens . . .

Bunky was a hot L.A. heavyweight as an amateur in the late 60's.
A national champ, who turned pro, mega talent & promise.
He scored five straight KO's. Then he was flattened in one round by Earnie Shavers. That was it. Career over.
After Shavers, Bunky became known as a Muhammad Ali sparring partner. Ali was Ali, but he couldn't hit like Shavers.
That was the last I heard of Herman "Bunky" Akins. Maybe Kiki remembers him from his amateur days?
_________________________________________________________________________________________________


Herman "Bunky" Akins
Fresno, California
won 5 (KO 5) + lost 1 (KO 1) + drawn 0 = 6
rounds boxed 24 KO% 83.33



1970-12-07 Earnie Shavers 16-2-0
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States L KO 1 6
1970-10-26 Richard Pittman 1-11-2
City Auditorium, Atlanta, Georgia, United States W KO 4
1969-09-13 196 Jack O'Reilly 215 0-3-0
Selland Arena, Fresno, California, United States W TKO 5 6
~ referee: Tony Peretti ~

1969-08-19 184 Floyd Casey 177 4-13-2
Selland Arena, Fresno, California, United States W TKO 6 6
~ referee: Al Martinez ~
Casey was stopped on a cut left eye.

1969-07-24 Andy Nacosti 6-7-1
Seattle, Washington, United States W KO 5
1969-06-23 193½ Ed Butler 184 2-0-1
Selland Arena, Fresno, California, United States W KO 3 6

(Akins had at least one pro bout prior to this -- further reseach needed)

I was at this fight, December 6th, 1965.
My dad took me to the Sports Arena, the fight promoter wasn't Eaton or Parnassus, some Mexican group, I believe.
Our seats weren't good, way back at the top. My father usually got us pretty good seats, but it was a last minute decision to go.
We saw our friend, Dwight Hawkins score a quick one-round KO just prior to the Pimentel-Medel main.
It was a close fight. This is the report given by Boxrec, and I remember it pretty much the same:
_______________________________________________________________

Jesus Pimentel vs. Jose Medel

1965-12-06 : Jesus Pimentel 118½lbs lost to Jose Medel 118lbs by UD in round 10 of 10
Sports Arena, Los Angeles, California, USA
Referee: John Thomas 4-7
Judge: Tommy Hart 4-7
Judge: George Latka 6-8

"Hardly a punch was landed as the two fighters felt each other out in the 1st round. Then Medel had a slight edge in the 2nd and 3rd as Pimental played it cool. Pimental sent Medel sprawling to the canvas with his jarring right in the 4th, picking up another point with punishing lefts in the 5th and then settled for an even round in the 6th. Pimental's lefts found their mark again for an edge in the 7th and 8th. But then came the big bomb. Medel, sensing he was losing, spilled Pimental and followed up with punishing combinations before spilling him for a second time in the 9th. Medel appeared to be well spent in the 10th and Pimental became the aggressor again to rate an edge." -Pasadena Independent

Unoffficial Pasadena Independent scorecard - 7-7 Draw

Post fight comments

"It was a solid right, a beautiful punch. I didn't hear the referee count one, two or three. The first thing I heard him say was four." -Jose Medel, commenting on the punch that dropped him in the 4th round.
"I think it was a left hook that caught me in the 9th round. I really don't know what happened." -Jesus Pimental, commenting on going down in the 9th.

Brilliant Bantamweights . . .

In my opinion, the greatest bantamweight (that I saw fight) to never win a world championship is, Jesus Pimentel, hands down.
Maybe Jose Medel, the next greatest bantam (that I saw fight) to never win a world title?

Sports Arena, Los Angeles, California, United States (12/6/65)

Jesus Pimentel L Jose Medel UD 10 10
Dwight Hawkins W Apolonio Salinas KO 1 10
Beto Maldonado L Jerry Stokes PTS 10 10
Dave White L Al Ramirez PTS 5 5

BTW, Happy Birthday Ken Norton!

Today he is 67.

Rick Farris wrote:BTW, Happy Birthday Ken Norton!

Today he turned 67.

Ditto....

My thoughts on Ken Norton . . .

I saw Ken Norton for the first time in 1968, when he made his L.A. debut with a KO of Cornell Nolan.
Norton was unbeaten, and Nolan was his sixth consecutive victory, fifth by KO.
Norton's next four fights would also be in L.A. and he'd win all by KO.

More than two years into his pro career, Ken Norton is unbeaten, 15-0 (14 KO's).
To some, Norton was a God, a physical specimen who could punch. I'd see Norton training under Bill Slayton, at the Main Street Gym and he often was impressive. However, I'm a hard critic of heavyweights of the era. I was also a tad prejudiced in favor of my stablemate, Jerry Quarry.

I always wanted Jerry to win, thruout his career, prime and long past prime. I knew all of the idiosincracies the made up Jerry Quarry. At times the sum total of those "quirks" created a devistating heavyweight contender during one of the toughest heavyweight eras in boxing history.

With guys like Ali and Frazier around, Jerry Quarry would never be a heavyweight champion.
With guys like Frazier and Foreman around, a guy like Ken Norton should have never been a champ, either.
But Norton had something few others had, and that was Muhammad Ali's number. Ali never beat him, in my mind.
Norton's poison was a hard puncher. I saw Quarry put him to sleep in a late 60's sparring session, and drop him with a body shot in another.
The Jerry Quarry that Ken Norton stopped in 1975, wasn't the Jerry that faced and flattened Earnie Shavers more than two years previous.
At the time, Jerry's most common sparring partner was cocaine. He was spiritually shot as a fighter, and he retired after Norton stopped him.

However, lets go back five years before Norton faced Jerry Quarry in the ring. Norton is unbeaten, as I mentioned above, and the 6'3", 27-year-old physical specimen is going to fight a 6'2", 188 pounder from Venezuela, Jose Luis Garcia. Manager Willie Ketchum was touting Garcia as a threat to Norton. Few believed it.

I was scheduled to fight my second pro match on the undercard, but my opponent never showed up at the weigh-in, so I was just a spectator that night. I was with my girlfriend, talking with people at ringside, when Norton hit the deck early in the fight. Suddenly my attention went right to the ring. Within the next few rounds, Garcia would floor Kenny three more times, ending matters for good in the eighth round. Afterwards, I told of how Jerry had KOed Norton in the gym. The bubble had been burst by a South American light-heavy.

Three years later Norton would redeem himself, and make his mark on history. He not only handed Ali his second loss, he broke the Greatest's jaw in the process.

Even with his dominance of Muhammad in all three matches, I never saw Kenny Norton in the same light as Ali, Foreman, Frazier, or Quarry. I likened him to a Jimmy Young, Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers level contender. You know, just a few french fries short of a happy meal in the overall scope of heavyweight boxing during the era.

How ironic that today I would love to see just one heavyweight with half the talent of Ken Norton.
How things change.


-Rick Farris

Clay Hodges . . .

In the Amateurs, Clay Hodges owned George Foreman (circa 1967-68) Clay beat Foreman twice, the last time shortly before the 1968 Olympic Trials.
Clay Hodges was a hard luck heavyweight. He'd lost Joe Frazier in the 1964 Olympic Trials, close fight.
In the 1965 Western Region Golden Gloves finals, Hodges floored Jerry Quarry twice, but lost a decision. Quarry won the Nationals that year.
But In 1967, Clay Hodges represented Los Angeles in the National Golden Gloves Tournament of Champions.
Clay came home with the National title, along with his L.A. team mates, Thurman Durden and Paul Bad Horse.

I still recall the three boxers interviewed by Mickey Davies on KTLA Ch.-5, all sporting their gigantic National GG's trophy.

I used to cross paths with Clay Hodges often in the 1980's. Clay was an actor, and we'd see each other on film sets.

I recall Clay lamenting over an eye injury suffered in an early pro fight. He had been unbeaten. In the pro debut of Clay Hodges, he won a decision over Jimmy Young. Clay was tall, 6'4", and a solid boxer.


-Rick Farris

Here's a recent picture taken of Ken Norton and myself in Nov. 2009
In Westchester, NY: American Assoc for Improvement of Boxing, Inc (AAIB) luncheon.

He seems to being doing very well. Moves slowly, talks deliberately but clear speech. Very nice gentleman who signed many autographs that day.

CNorkusJr wrote:


Here's a recent picture taken of Ken Norton and myself in Nov. 2009
In Westchester, NY: American Assoc for Improvement of Boxing, Inc (AAIB) luncheon.

He seems to being doing very well. Moves slowly, talks deliberately but clear speech. Very nice gentleman who signed many autographs that day.

Nice photo, Charlie. Ken Norton was one fighter who left the ring in pretty good condition.
He went on to star in a couple films, organized a management company for athletes including NFL star, Eric Dickerson.
However, it was a near fatal traffic accident that left Norton partially paralyzed and challenged physically.
At the time of the accident, Ken Norton was doing well, showing success and looking better than most who leave a ring career.
I understand he's had a couple strokes in recent years. He has always been a solid supporter of the WBHOF, but recently his health issues have interfered with HOF involvment.

A World Class L.A. "Club Fighter" . . . Beto Maldonado

I watched Beto train at the Main Street Gym thruout my amateur years.
Beto would fight anybody, anywhere, and like a lot of tough L.A. trial horses, he rarely fought at home later in his career.
Look at his record, the names he fought, the champs and near champs.
___________________________________________________________

Beto Maldonado

featherweight
nationality Mexico
residence Los Angeles, California, United States
birth name Humberto Arispuro
won 43 (KO 7) + lost 28 (KO 6) + drawn 3 = 74



1970-07-24 141 Eddie Mazon 138 19-4-3
San Diego, California, United States L TKO 6
1970-07-08 Angel Mayoral 9-2-0
Las Vegas, Nevada, United States L PTS 10 10
1970-02-27 Bobby Rodriguez 21-6-1
San Diego, California, United States W PTS 10 10
1970-01-26 131 Billy Brown 124½ 11-31-5
Beverly Hills Hilton Hotel, Los Angeles, California, United States W KO 4 6
1969-09-02 127 Roberto Andrade 125 11-7-2
International Center Arena, Honolulu, Hawaii, United States L PTS 10 10
1969-08-29 Al Ford 19-0-0
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada L PTS 10 10
1969-06-13 Joey Aguilar 4-10-2
San Bernardino, California, United States W PTS 10 10
1968-12-12 134 Jimmy Robertson 136 8-1-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L PTS 10 10
1968-08-09 129½ Memo Morales 129½ 6-1-0
San Bernardino, California, United States W PTS 10 10
1968-07-03 129¾ Kuniaki Shibata 129 21-1-0
Korakuen Hall, Tokyo, Japan L PTS 10 10
1968-03-29 129 Norio Endo 131¼ 23-9-0
Agana, Guam W PTS 10 10
1968-02-28 128 Kuwashi Shimizu 128½ 17-7-0
Agana, Guam W PTS 10 10
1967-06-29 128 Sugar Cane Carreon 129 21-12-5
Stockton, California, United States L PTS 10 10
~ referee: Bob Mitchell 1-7 ~

1967-05-16 Curley Aguirre 22-14-1
Honolulu, Hawaii, United States W PTS 10 10
1967-04-10 Alex Benitez 28-5-2
Stockton, California, United States L PTS 10 10
1967-03-20 Marcello Cid 0-2-1
Stockton, California, United States W PTS 10 10
1967-01-26 Johnny Perez 7-2-2
Stockton, California, United States L PTS 8 8
1966-10-31 Ray Coleman 14-26-3
Las Vegas, Nevada, United States L PTS 6 6
1966-07-26 125 Bobby Valdez 127 14-2-1
San Diego, California, United States L PTS 10 10
1966-02-07 129 Dwight Hawkins 129 29-15-5
Hacienda Hotel, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States L MD 10 10
~ 45-46 | 46-46 | 45-47 ~

1965-12-06 123 Jerry Stokes 122 13-6-1
Sports Arena, Los Angeles, California, United States L PTS 10 10
1965-05-22 Ricardo Moreno 55-8-1
San Jose, California, United States L KO 7 10
1965-03-17 129 Willie Ray 127½ 5-0-1
Civic Auditorium, Santa Monica, California, United States W UD 10 10
1965-02-08 128½ Babe Huerta 131 4-2-1
Civic Auditorium, Santa Monica, California, United States W TKO 7 10
Maldonado was knocked down in the 2nd round.

1964-08-11 Sid Obart 11-2-0
San Diego, California, United States L PTS 10 10
1964-06-24 125½ Sid Obart 126 11-1-0
Sports Arena, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 8 8
1964-05-19 126 Chris Trejo 127 4-1-0
Valley Garden Arena, North Hollywood, California, United States W PTS 6 6
1964-05-07 127 Bennie Lira 126 6-4-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W SD 6 6
1964-04-28 126½ Mercer Smith 128½ 16-5-1
Valley Garden Arena, North Hollywood, California, United States L PTS 6 6
1964-04-10 128 Lucio Gomez 128½ 2-2-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 6 6
1964-03-04 Manny Ramirez 3-0-0
San Jose, California, United States L PTS 10 10
1964-02-13 127½ Lucio Gomez 126 2-0-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 5 5
1963-04-29 128 Ray Echevarria 128 3-0-1
Moulin Rouge, Hollywood, California, United States L PTS 6 6
1963-03-19 Sid Obart 6-0-0
San Diego, California, United States L KO 3
Previously listed as occuring in Los Angeles, there was no show in Los Angeles on this date. San Diego location not confirmed.

1963-03-04 123½ Ray Lewis 123½ 3-2-0
Moulin Rouge, Hollywood, California, United States W PTS 6 6
1963-02-19 Tony Vasquez 42-14-2
San Diego, California, United States W PTS 6 6
1963-01-18 128 Larry Flores 126½ 3-6-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1963-01-14 128 Bennie Lira 128 2-3-1
Moulin Rouge, Hollywood, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1962-12-28 129 Miguel Ibarra 126
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1962-11-19 128 Gino Hernandez 4-9-4
Bakersfield Dome, Bakersfield, California, United States W TKO 4 6
1962-11-05 126 Jerry Stokes 126 8-2-1
Moulin Rouge, Hollywood, California, United States L PTS 6 6
1962-10-15 126 Al Miranda 129 0-4-0
Moulin Rouge, Hollywood, California, United States W PTS 6 6
1962-10-08 126½ Gino Hernandez 126½ 3-8-4
Bakersfield, California, United States W PTS 6 6
1961-12-18 Eddie Alvarado 9-2-1
San Diego, California, United States W KO 6
1961-07-04 126 Danny Brown 127 1-3-0
Civic Auditorium, Honolulu, Hawaii, United States L KO 1 10
~ time: 2:08 ~

1961-05-12 Ricardo Lara 16-0-1
El Paso, Texas, United States L PTS 10 10
1961-04-06 124½ Quan James 120½ 2-2-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States D PTS 6 6
1961-02-23 133 Alfonso Miranda 135 1-1-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1961-02-09 127 Johnny Glasgow 126½ 5-2-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States D PTS 4 4
1960-12-13 128½ Solly Klein 129 7-5-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1960-12-06 126 Solly Klein 130 7-4-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1960-11-28 126 Pantera Cardenas 128 14-11-0
Municipal Auditorium, Long Beach, California, United States W KO 5 6
1960-11-08 124 Bernie Montano 121 0-2-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States D PTS 6 6
1960-10-28 126 Jimmy Brown 126 0-3-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W KO 2 4
1960-09-22 125½ Pancho Loera 126 2-1-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1960-08-11 123 Joey Mazon 127 8-4-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W SD 6 6
1960-06-30 124½ Frankie Sedillo 125 1-2-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1960-05-10 125 Tony Herrera 125 6-0-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L KO 4 6
1960-04-07 128 Maurice Morales 127 5-1-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1960-04-05 127 Solly Klein 130 5-3-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1960-03-08 125 Pepino Pedro Morales 126 2-3-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1960-02-25 128 Charlie Marshall 126½ 5-5-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1960-02-09 127 Joey Clements 129
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1960-01-28 127½ Solly Klein 130½ 4-1-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1960-01-21 127 Charley Driver 126 0-4-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1960-01-19 128 Charley Driver 130 0-3-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1960-01-05 127½ Billy Ware 125
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W KO 4 4
1959-12-17 123½ Tony Herrera 123½
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1959-12-01 124 Walter Read 118½ 2-3-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1959-11-07 125 Juan Estopier 123½ 0-1-0
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1959-10-24 121 Sandy Garcia 118 1-7-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1959-09-26 124 Julan Rivera 125
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1959-09-03 121½ Sandy Garcia 124 1-5-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1959-08-01 124½ Johnny Ladnier 125½ 1-3-0
Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States L KO 4 4

Rick, your last few posts on this thread were great. In regards to Ken Norton, I agree that he didn't match up well with the big punchers even during his prime years. Based on how Norton fared against George Foreman, Ernie Shavers, Jose Luis Garcia and Gerry Cooney, I feel that both Joe Frazier and Ron Lyle would too much for him. But Norton did do well against the boxer-types such as Muhammad Ali, Jimmy Young and Larry Holmes.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck1052 wrote:Rick, your last few posts on this thread were great. In regards to Ken Norton, I agree that he didn't match up well with the big punchers even during his prime years. Based on how Norton fared against George Foreman, Ernie Shavers, Jose Luis Garcia and Gerry Cooney, I feel that both Joe Frazier and Ron Lyle would too much for him. But Norton did do well against the boxer-types such as Muhammad Ali, Jimmy Young and Larry Holmes.

- Chuck Johnston

Yeah Chuck, what I saw in the gym revealed a strong puncher, but a questionable chin.
I remember Johnny Flores referring to Norton's weak chin. Johnny spotted it right away.
Long before Jerry and Norton traded blows in the gym, Flores took a good look at Ken Norton in the gym and in the ring.
Flores controlled Jerry Quarry in the late 60's. Norton was a Southern Cal guy with an unbeaten KO record, hence Johnny's interest.
Ali never posed a threat to Ken's weakness, and Norton's slightly unorthodox, athletic style played Hell with Ali.
I must rate Jerry Quarry, realistically, below Ali Frazier & Foreman. However, I liked him over the rest. Jerry lacked one of the true markers of greatness, and that is consistency. I believe he'd have posed a greater threat to Foreman than he did to either Ali or Frazier. On the right night, Jerry was known to have slain a few dragons. And the same must be said for Ken Norton.
Kenny bagged the biggest game in the forest.

Rick, early Jr. glovers...1946

Frank, I believe this is same Joe Rivers. I know he's buried in East L.A.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mexican Joe Rivers

birth date 1891-03-19
division lightweight
height 5′ 4½″ / 164cm
reach 68½″ / 174cm
alias Indian/Jose Ybarra
residence Vernon, California, United States
birth place Los Angeles, California, United States
won 39 (KO 21) + lost 24 (KO 7) + drawn 12 = 77
rounds boxed 650
Newspaper Decisions won 4 : lost 5 : drawn 4
rounds boxed 132




1924-07-30 Young McGovern 16-6-7
San Fernando, California, United States NC NC ? 4
Result unknown

1924-06-11 Jimmy Brown 5-16-3
San Fernando, California, United States W KO 3 4
1924-05-29 Eddie Sylvester 15-7-4
El Rio, California, United States NC NC ? 4
Result unknown

1924-03-12 Lonny Parsons 0-3-0
Rialto Theater, Centralia, Washington, United States D PTS ?
1923-04-05 Joe Skinner 1-1-0
Freeport SC, Freeport, New York, United States L PTS 6 6
1923-04-03 Pete McCarthy 3-7-2
Albuquerque, New Mexico, United States W KO 3
1922-06-27 139½ Bobby Harper 142 26-1-14
Armory, Portland, Oregon, United States L KO 8 10
Harper scored five knockdowns during the eighth round.

1921-10-06 Mike O'Leary 7-3-7
Athletic Club, San Bernardino, California, United States D PTS 4 4
1921-04-20 Harvey Bright 8-0-1
Woodhaven SC, Woodhaven, Queens, New York, United States L TKO 5
1921-03-17 Andy Biddell
Honolulu, Hawaii, United States W PTS 10 10
1920-12-14 Phil Salvadore 24-12-8
Arena, Vernon, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1920-09-17 Kid Mexico 11-4-3
Bakersfield, California, United States L PTS 4 4
Mexico's jaw was broken in the second round, but he continued on. Tacoma News Tribune

1920-01-12 Kid Booker 5-11-9
Taft, California, United States D PTS 4 4
1919-11-07 Gene Delmont 10-19-7
Arcadia Hall, Phoenix, Arizona, United States D PTS 10 10
Rivers knocked down in the 2nd round

1919-10-29 Harry Casey 14-10-26
Crystal Pool, Seattle, Washington, United States W PTS 6 6
Per the Seattle Star newspaper, Rivers headed to Phoenix immediately after this bout.

1919-10-22 143 Alex Trambitas 143 20-5-12
Heilig Theater, Portland, Oregon, United States L PTS 10 10
1918-09-02 Joey Miller 12-4-10
Oaks Ballpark, Emeryville, California, United States D PTS 4 4
1918-08-16 Willie Robinson 31-11-16
Dreamland Rink, San Francisco, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1918-08-09 Joe White 20-6-9
Dreamland Rink, San Francisco, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1918-07-19 Johnny McCarthy 22-9-18
Dreamland Rink, San Francisco, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1918-07-09 Johnny McCarthy 22-9-17
Shipbuilder's Club, Oakland, California, United States D PTS 4 4
1918-07-05 Tillie (Kid) Herman 16-5-5
Dreamland Rink, San Francisco, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1918-07-04 Joe Benjamin 9-7-14
Turlock, California, United States D PTS 4 4
1918-05-31 Tillie (Kid) Herman 15-5-5
Civic Auditorium, San Francisco, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1918-03-22 Chief Abernathy 1-1-1
San Diego, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1917-12-21 Joe Benjamin 6-4-11
11th Street Playhouse, Portland, Oregon, United States W KO 1 6
~ time: 1:16 ~

1917-11-04 Bobby Waugh 41-9-10
Silver City, New Mexico, United States L DQ 13
1917-10-06 Johnny McCarthy 17-8-16
Race Track Arena, Reno, Nevada, United States L PTS 10 10
~ referee: Harry Sullivan ~

1917-08-31 Willie Hoppe 22-7-11
Dreamland Rink, San Francisco, California, United States D PTS 4 4
1917-08-24 Johnny McCarthy 15-8-16
Dreamland Rink, San Francisco, California, United States L PTS 4 4
1917-08-15 Willie Hoppe 22-7-10
Arena, Emeryville, California, United States D PTS 4 4
1917-07-11 Oakland Frankie Burns 22-11-12
Arena, Emeryville, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1917-06-21 Lee Morrissey 3-3-11
Auditorium Theater, Pocatello, Idaho, United States W PTS 12 12
~ referee: Dick Jones ~

1917-06-07 Al Young 2-3-5
Orpheum Theatre, Ogden, Utah, United States W DQ 5 15
~ referee: Jack Mower ~

1917-04-24 137 Johnny Harvey 138½ 8-6-0
Pioneer Sporting Club, New York, New York, United States L KO 7 10
~ referee: Patsy Haley ~
"Both boys fought at a fast pace. In the seventh round, Rivers took a count of nine after receiving a hard left on the jaw. He arose and covered, but was again beaten down." (Iowa City Citizen)

1917-03-23 139½ Westside Jimmy Duffy 135 6-3-0
Harlem S.C., New York, New York, United States L NWS 10 10
Newspaper win for Duffy (New York Times)

1917-03-19 Johnny O'Leary 30-7-12
Columbus, Ohio, United States W KO 11
1917-02-19 Frankie Murphy 2-3-3
Columbus, Ohio, United States W KO 2 12
Murphy was from Denver.

1916-12-08 Richie Mitchell 5-0-1
Auditorium, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, United States L NWS 10 10
Newspaper decision from the Milwaukee Free Press

1916-11-20 Joe Thomas 18-5-8
Tulane Arena, New Orleans, Louisiana, United States W KO 3 20
1916-10-09 Joe Sherman 6-4-5
Cincinnati, Ohio, United States W DQ 3
1916-09-04 Johnny Griffiths 13-2-4
League Park, Canton, Ohio, United States L NWS 12 12
Newspaper decision from the Massillon Evening Independent

1916-04-21 Louis Rees 10-6-3
Venice A.C., Venice, California, United States W PTS 4 4
1916-01-24 Richie Mitchell 5-0-1
Cincinnati, Ohio, United States D NWS 10 10
"Joe Rivers of Los Angeles and Ritchie Mitchell of Milwaukee fought ten rounds to a newspaper draw here last night. In the earlier rounds, Rivers forced matters and landed with telling force in the infighting. Mitchell's hard lefts evened up matters in the eighth and ninth and gave him an edge. In the ninth Rivers slipped in a clinch and injured his left ankle, but rallied desperately in the tenth, sending Mitchell partly through the ropes." (Reno Evening Gazette)

1915-11-25 Lee Morrissey 0-1-4
Saint Anthony, Idaho, United States W KO 5
1915-11-08 Johnny Dundee 22-1-6
Auditorium, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, United States L NWS 10 10
Newspaper decision from the Milwaukee Free Press

1915-08-16 Stanley Yoakum 34-7-18
Denver, Colorado, United States W PTS 15 15
1915-07-23 139 Johnny Dundee 130 22-1-6
Ebbet's Field, Brooklyn, New York, United States L NWS 10 10
Dundee won the newspaper decision according to the New York Times. Rivers did come on strong in the last two rounds though.

1915-07-06 Gilbert Gallant 20-8-15
Atlas A.A., Boston, Massachusetts, United States D PTS 12 12
1915-06-15 Johnny Harvey 7-4-0
American A.C., New York, New York, United States W NWS 10 10
New York Times

1915-05-12 Harvey Thorpe 1-1-0
Kansas City, Missouri, United States W PTS 10 10
1915-04-22 Oakland Frankie Burns 19-6-7
Kansas City, Missouri, United States W PTS 10 10
1915-04-09 Oakland Frankie Burns 19-6-7
Kansas City, Missouri, United States D NWS 10 10
Newspaper decision - Draw (AP)

1915-01-18 Frankie Callahan 15-0-1
Memphis, Tennessee, United States L KO 2 8
1914-12-08 136 Johnny Dundee 128 20-0-5
Arena, Vernon, California, United States L PTS 20 20
Reported to be the last 20-round bout staged prior to the new anti-prize fight law going into effect in California.

1914-10-12 Frankie Russell 18-6-4
Memphis, Tennessee, United States W PTS 8 8
1914-10-04 133 Joe Mandot 133 37-7-5
McDonoghville Park, New Orleans, Louisiana, United States L PTS 20 20
1914-09-07 Willie Beecher 11-3-1
Arena, Vernon, California, United States W PTS 20 20
1914-08-11 135 Leach Cross 135 25-6-3
Arena, Vernon, California, United States L PTS 20 20
The alleged fight of August 11, 1911, previously shown in this record, was a duplicate of this actual fight.

1914-07-04 Matty McCue 15-0-0
Arena, Vernon, California, United States W KO 2 20
~ referee: Charles Eyton ~
Before being knocked out, McCue was down twice, once in each round.

1914-03-17 Freddie Welsh 56-3-6
Arena, Vernon, California, United States L PTS 20 20
1914-01-23 Ad Wolgast 49-4-10
Dreamland Park, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, United States D NWS 10 10
Newspaper decision from the Milwaukee Free Press

1913-11-27 Leach Cross 22-4-3
Arena, Vernon, California, United States W PTS 20 20
Cross was down twice for 9-counts in the fourth round, and took "nine" again in the 12th.

1913-10-28 Frankie Russell 18-5-3
Orleans A.C., New Orleans, Louisiana, United States W NWS 10 10
Newspaper decision from the Western Newspaper Union

1913-07-04 134 Willie Ritchie 133½ 20-6-12
Eighth Street Arena, San Francisco, California, United States L KO 11 20
~ referee: Eddie Graney ~
Lightweight World Title
Articles called for 134 pounds, ringside

1913-04-08 Leach Cross 132¼ 19-4-2
St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, United States W NWS 10 10
Newspaper decision from the New York Times

1913-02-22 133 Knockout Brown 133 30-4-1
Arena, Vernon, California, United States W KO 10 20
~ referee: Charles Eyton ~
Rivers was simply too much for the free swinging Brown. Brown suffered his first KO of his six-year-plus career. New York Times

1913-01-14 132 Leach Cross 132 18-4-2
Manhattan Casino, New York, New York, United States D NWS 10 10
Newspaper decision was a draw (New York Times)
Rivers took a count of "four" in the second round.

1912-11-28 Joe Mandot 129 36-4-5
Arena, Vernon, California, United States W PTS 20 20
~ referee: Charles Eyton ~

1912-09-02 133 Joe Mandot 131 34-4-5
Arena, Vernon, California, United States L PTS 20 20
~ referee: Charles Eyton ~

1912-07-04 133 Ad Wolgast 130 47-1-9
Arena, Vernon, California, United States L KO 13 20
~ referee: Jack Welch ~
Lightweight World Title

1912-03-16 Jack White 15-5-10
Arena, Vernon, California, United States W TKO 12 20
~ referee: Charles Eyton ~
Referee Eyton refused to count and stopped the fight after 12th round knockdown.

1912-01-01 124¾ Frankie Conley 120 30-7-9
Arena, Vernon, California, United States W TKO 11 20
~ referee: Charles Eyton ~

1911-11-18 Frankie Conley 30-7-8
Arena, Vernon, California, United States D PTS 20 20
~ referee: Charles Eyton ~

1911-10-28 George Kirkwood 9-2-6
Arena, Vernon, California, United States W TKO 8 20
~ referee: Charles Eyton ~

Thats the same Mexican Joe Rivers, Rick.

kikibalt wrote:Thats the same Mexican Joe Rivers, Rick.

Thanks, Frank.
He was an L.A. fighter 100%.

Evander Holyfield continues his pointless heavyweight campaign when he meets Sherman "Tank" Williams in a 12-rounder in Detroit in November.
Holyfield, who will be 48 by the time of the fight, comes off a win over a 41-year-old Frans Botha and can beat his fellow veterans every day of the week, which explains this match against the 47-year-old Williams (136-years-old between them). However, Holyfield will never seriously contend again and you wonder why he continues to sully his past – money, I suppose.
The former cruiserweight great moved up to heavyweight in 1988 where he defied the biggest and best for many, many years but was worn-out by the time Larry Donald comprehensively outscored him in 2004, and the last few years have not been pretty. Holyfield is still physically strong but lacks the old sharpness and the ability to sustain his attacks.
None of this will effect his chances against Williams, a durable customer from the Bahamas who has boxed only four times since 2006 and was outscored in a 10-rounder in Germany last October. He will take Holyfield the full 12 rounds without really troubling him and without winning, but the mindset of those who turn up to see such a spectacle, along with the mindset of Holyfield, has to be in question.

Rick Farris wrote:

Chuck1052 wrote:Rick, your last few posts on this thread were great. In regards to Ken Norton, I agree that he didn't match up well with the big punchers even during his prime years. Based on how Norton fared against George Foreman, Ernie Shavers, Jose Luis Garcia and Gerry Cooney, I feel that both Joe Frazier and Ron Lyle would too much for him. But Norton did do well against the boxer-types such as Muhammad Ali, Jimmy Young and Larry Holmes.

- Chuck Johnston

Yeah Chuck, what I saw in the gym revealed a strong puncher, but a questionable chin.
I remember Johnny Flores referring to Norton's weak chin. Johnny spotted it right away.
Long before Jerry and Norton traded blows in the gym, Flores took a good look at Ken Norton in the gym and in the ring.
Flores controlled Jerry Quarry in the late 60's. Norton was a Southern Cal guy with an unbeaten KO record, hence Johnny's interest.
Ali never posed a threat to Ken's weakness, and Norton's slightly unorthodox, athletic style played Hell with Ali.
I must rate Jerry Quarry, realistically, below Ali Frazier & Foreman. However, I liked him over the rest. Jerry lacked one of the true markers of greatness, and that is consistency. I believe he'd have posed a greater threat to Foreman than he did to either Ali or Frazier. On the right night, Jerry was known to have slain a few dragons. And the same must be said for Ken Norton.
Kenny bagged the biggest game in the forest.

Rick I have always been intrigued by the 1970s Heavyweights except believe it or not Ali, and in my opinion Kenny should have gotten the decision in all 3 of there fights, Jerry Quarry on the other hand seemed to lose fights he should win Chavalo and Ellis and win fights he should lose Mac Foster, Lyle and Shavers he was just missing some intangible that fighters like Marciano had in abundance, skill wise Jerry was better well rounded than Marciano but Marciano used his sheer willpower to overcome the more talented fighters, As for the russian invasion Heavys can you say boring.

Good morning Frank

More on Mexican Joe Rivers . . .


Wolgast, Rivers and the double knockout drama
By Mike Dunn

One of the most controversial title fights took place on the Fourth of July, 1912, in Vernon, Calif., near Los Angeles. Popular local favorite Mexican Joe Rivers – who wasn’t Mexican at all but a fourth-generation Californian of Spanish-Native American descent whose real name was Jose Ybarra – challenged rugged lightweight champ Ad Wolgast in a fight that would forever be known for the rarest of all fistic occurrences – a double knockout – and for the subsequent shocking actions of the ref enabling Wolgast to retain the title.

Rivers was a formidable challenger, having dispatched of both Johnny Kilbane (KO 16) and Frank Conley (KO 12) to earn his shot at the crown in the open-air Vernon Arena before 11,000 witnesses that hot Independence Day..

Wolgast was a rawhide-tough champion from Cadillac, Mich. bearing the descriptive moniker “Michigan Wildcat” because of the ferocity of his attacks. A two-fisted warrior, Wolgast fought out of a crouch and was willing to trade blow-for-blow with anyone. He brought an outstanding 47-1-9 record into the ring with him but much more important than that, he brought his own referee, Jack Welch, with him that day. If not for the presence of Welch, Rivers would have had his hand raised as champion when the fight was over.

It was a fierce battle between the two determined men, each doing damage in the brutal give-and-take manner that characterized the ring wars of that blood-and-guts era.

Wolgast, making the fifth defense of the title he won in the 40th round of a savage war of attrition with Battling Nelson two-and-a-half years before, started strong but was fading under the continued assault of the younger challenger. The champ had been more on the receiving end than the giving end through the first 12 frames of the scheduled 20-rounder and was behind in the scoring.

Rivers had the edge going into the fateful 13th round but both battlers showed the effects of the fierce trading. “Both boys, gory from head to belt, their faces puffed and cut …” is how the ringside reporter described Wolgast and Rivers just prior to the double knockout.

There has been some dispute through the years as to whether the blow that felled Rivers landed low, but the newspaper account said clearly that Wolgast struck below the belt.

“Rivers suddenly collapsed,” the ringside reporter wrote, and there were immediate shouts of “foul” among the spectators. “Wolgast previously in the same round and in several other rounds had struck Rivers rather low and when Rivers went down there was a sudden shout of ‘Foul.’”

Rivers went down in a heap but a moment later Wolgast was down also, falling over top of Rivers’ legs. Just as he was being hit severely in the groin area, Rivers had landed a solid right to the champion’s jaw and Wolgast staggered momentarily before falling.

“Wolgast suddenly crouched and sent a terrific left directly over Rivers’s groin,” it said in the next day’s newspapers. “At the same instant Rivers put his right to Wolgast’s jaw and the champion went down and was practically out. Rivers fell, writhing in pain, and referee Welch began to count.”

Welch later explained that he started counting over Rivers because Rivers went down first. Welch ignored the claims of foul, saying emphatically that Wolgast landed a clean blow. As Welch was counting over Rivers, who was conscious but in terrible pain, he actually helped Wolgast up from the canvas.

“Wolgast rolled off Rivers, his features convulsed. Welch immediately began counting and was still counting when he reached down and helped Wolgast to his feet. There were shouts that the bell had ended the round while Welch was counting. By this time the whole arena was in an uproar.”

The bell rang at the count of 4 and the timekeeper, Al Holder of the Pacific Athletic Club, kept shouting at Welch that the gong had sounded. Welch either didn’t hear him or chose to ignore him. That only added to the outrage of Rivers’ supporters.

“The claims on behalf of Rivers were not heeded by Welch. He picked Wolgast up off the floor and declared him the winner. His seconds had to carry him from the ring. Rivers was lying on the floor but in a moment arose unaided.”

Rivers was prepared to continue fighting but Welch “waved him back.” Welch’s actions ignited a near riot in the arena. Several people came through the ropes, including Rivers’ manager Joe Levy, and confronted Welch.

The referee told the protesters that his actions were fair and then quickly fled the ring. The protests continued for nearly an hour after the fight ended but to no avail. Later that night, Welch stated that Wolgast had struck a legal blow to the stomach that caused Rivers to fall. Shockingly, Welch also said he didn’t see Rivers land the punch that knocked Wolgast senseless.

In a remarkable contortion of logic, this is how Welch responded: “Wolgast was clearly the winner. Just before Rivers went down, Wolgast had landed a heavy left to the body just below the pit of the stomach and followed it with another right smash almost to the same place. Neither blow was low. I did not see what happened to Wolgast.”

So Welch saw two legal blows when others saw a left thrown by the champion that was clearly low. The ref saw Wolgast strike Rivers but he somehow missed the right that Rivers threw to knock Wolgast out! Welch would have made a grand politician.

Rivers later displayed “a dented aluminum protector” in the dressing room to validate his claim of a foul. Levy, Rivers’ manager, called Welch’s actions “the worst case of robbery in the history of the American ring.”

“Never before have I seen a referee pick up a man and then give him the decision,” Levy added. “The foul blow struck by Wolgast was seen by everyone near the ringside. It was the fourth or fifth foul the champion had landed on Rivers. The sum total of it all is that Wolgast knew he was whipped and resorted to his foul tactics to save himself.”

The final paragraph of the newspaper article implies that even Wolgast’s people recognized the injustice of Welch’s actions, though they weren’t about to say so. “No one connected with Wolgast’s camp would say a word and all of them quickly jumped in an automobile and left the pavilion.”

THEHAMMER321 wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

Chuck1052 wrote:Rick, your last few posts on this thread were great. In regards to Ken Norton, I agree that he didn't match up well with the big punchers even during his prime years. Based on how Norton fared against George Foreman, Ernie Shavers, Jose Luis Garcia and Gerry Cooney, I feel that both Joe Frazier and Ron Lyle would too much for him. But Norton did do well against the boxer-types such as Muhammad Ali, Jimmy Young and Larry Holmes.

- Chuck Johnston

Yeah Chuck, what I saw in the gym revealed a strong puncher, but a questionable chin.
I remember Johnny Flores referring to Norton's weak chin. Johnny spotted it right away.
Long before Jerry and Norton traded blows in the gym, Flores took a good look at Ken Norton in the gym and in the ring.
Flores controlled Jerry Quarry in the late 60's. Norton was a Southern Cal guy with an unbeaten KO record, hence Johnny's interest.
Ali never posed a threat to Ken's weakness, and Norton's slightly unorthodox, athletic style played Hell with Ali.
I must rate Jerry Quarry, realistically, below Ali Frazier & Foreman. However, I liked him over the rest. Jerry lacked one of the true markers of greatness, and that is consistency. I believe he'd have posed a greater threat to Foreman than he did to either Ali or Frazier. On the right night, Jerry was known to have slain a few dragons. And the same must be said for Ken Norton.
Kenny bagged the biggest game in the forest.

Rick I have always been intrigued by the 1970s Heavyweights except believe it or not Ali, and in my opinion Kenny should have gotten the decision in all 3 of there fights, Jerry Quarry on the other hand seemed to lose fights he should win Chavalo and Ellis and win fights he should lose Mac Foster, Lyle and Shavers he was just missing some intangible that fighters like Marciano had in abundance, skill wise Jerry was better well rounded than Marciano but Marciano used his sheer willpower to overcome the more talented fighters, As for the russian invasion Heavys can you say boring.

Jerry Quarry . . .

Paul, one thing we know about Jerry Quarry is that he was a head case. He was very moody, self centered, prejudiced and insecure at times. He had tremendous ability, and a mean quality necessary for a fighter. When Jerry was right, mentally and physically, he was like a well oiled machine. He was calm and calculated, he'd casually lead an opponent into a disaster. When Jerry had an opponent hurt, few survived. Sadly, we never knew which Jerry was going to show up. I first witnessed Jerry's nature in the first fight with Scrap Iron Johnson. Jerry was still undefeated, but he'd started to look like a dog in close fights with Tony Doyle and Tony Alongi. It was all about attitude with Jerry. Suddenly, as the critics began to pick away at Jerry Quarry, he does something that nobody did before or after, and that is literally flatten Scrap Iron in just two rounds. Jerry was backed into a corner and unleashed a combo that sent Johnson across the ring where he collapsed to the canvas. Ten and out! You pointed out two of Jerry's most disappointing bouts, Chuvalo & Ellis. Had he defeated Ellis, he'd have become the WBA World Heavyweight Champion at age 23. Jimmy Ellis didn't beat Jerry in Oakland that afternoon, Jerry beat himself.

THEHAMMER321 wrote:Good morning Frank

Morning Paul...

Rick Farris wrote:

THEHAMMER321 wrote:

Rick Farris wrote: Yeah Chuck, what I saw in the gym revealed a strong puncher, but a questionable chin.
I remember Johnny Flores referring to Norton's weak chin. Johnny spotted it right away.
Long before Jerry and Norton traded blows in the gym, Flores took a good look at Ken Norton in the gym and in the ring.
Flores controlled Jerry Quarry in the late 60's. Norton was a Southern Cal guy with an unbeaten KO record, hence Johnny's interest.
Ali never posed a threat to Ken's weakness, and Norton's slightly unorthodox, athletic style played Hell with Ali.
I must rate Jerry Quarry, realistically, below Ali Frazier & Foreman. However, I liked him over the rest. Jerry lacked one of the true markers of greatness, and that is consistency. I believe he'd have posed a greater threat to Foreman than he did to either Ali or Frazier. On the right night, Jerry was known to have slain a few dragons. And the same must be said for Ken Norton.
Kenny bagged the biggest game in the forest.

Rick I have always been intrigued by the 1970s Heavyweights except believe it or not Ali, and in my opinion Kenny should have gotten the decision in all 3 of there fights, Jerry Quarry on the other hand seemed to lose fights he should win Chavalo and Ellis and win fights he should lose Mac Foster, Lyle and Shavers he was just missing some intangible that fighters like Marciano had in abundance, skill wise Jerry was better well rounded than Marciano but Marciano used his sheer willpower to overcome the more talented fighters, As for the russian invasion Heavys can you say boring.

Jerry Quarry . . .

Paul, one thing we know about Jerry Quarry is that he was a head case. He was very moody, self centered, prejudiced and insecure at times. He had tremendous ability, and a mean quality necessary for a fighter. When Jerry was right, mentally and physically, he was like a well oiled machine. He was calm and calculated, he'd casually lead an opponent into a disaster. When Jerry had an opponent hurt, few survived. Sadly, we never knew which Jerry was going to show up. I first witnessed Jerry's nature in the first fight with Scrap Iron Johnson. Jerry was still undefeated, but he'd started to look like a dog in close fights with Tony Doyle and Tony Alongi. It was all about attitude with Jerry. Suddenly, as the critics began to pick away at Jerry Quarry, he does something that nobody did before or after, and that is literally flatten Scrap Iron in just two rounds. Jerry was backed into a corner and unleashed a combo that sent Johnson across the ring where he collapsed to the canvas. Ten and out! You pointed out two of Jerry's most disappointing bouts, Chuvalo & Ellis. Had he defeated Ellis, he'd have become the WBA World Heavyweight Champion at age 23. Jimmy Ellis didn't beat Jerry in Oakland that afternoon, Jerry beat himself.

Would you say that Jerry was a counterpuncher at his best?

A few of the ol' boys in Cardiff recently. Humberto Gonzalez is squatting in front; Alan Rudkin is in the cap; the guy in the suit who looks like Carbajal is in fact a local wannabe.