BoxRec

Rick Farris wrote:Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez vs. L.C. Morgan . . .

This is a match that should have happened. However, they never fought.
Mid-60's this would be a good fight!
I watched Adolph Pruitt school Ernie in Las Vegas.
L.C. and Red would have been a great match, IMO.

Rick Farris wrote:Raul Rojas . . .

Long over looked by the WBHOF, time to induct L.A. legend and former two-time world champ, Raul Rojas.
Today's voting membership is ignorant of the world boxing scene during the 60's in Los Angeles.
Rojas has been on the ballot, but most voting members have limited knowledge of Rojas and the L.A. market.
We didn't have cable TV in those days, but we did have a weekly local broadcast. Rojas was a star of the era.

Raul has been in bad health for years. He has always participated in WBHOF events when invited, signed autographs.
We are all going to pass one day, and before Raul Rojas' last day he should take the stage and receieve his bronze.
He earned it!

If the votes don't tally, then educate the world by using "Historic Privledge" and just putting him in.
We do not have educated voters, and history should not be held hostage by the ignorant.


-Rick Farris

Expug wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:Raul Rojas . . .

Long over looked by the WBHOF, time to induct L.A. legend and former two-time world champ, Raul Rojas.
Today's voting membership is ignorant of the world boxing scene during the 60's in Los Angeles.
Rojas has been on the ballot, but most voting members have limited knowledge of Rojas and the L.A. market.
We didn't have cable TV in those days, but we did have a weekly local broadcast. Rojas was a star of the era.

Raul has been in bad health for years. He has always participated in WBHOF events when invited, signed autographs.
We are all going to pass one day, and before Raul Rojas' last day he should take the stage and receieve his bronze.
He earned it!

If the votes don't tally, then educate the world by using "Historic Privledge" and just putting him in.
We do not have educated voters, and history should not be held hostage by the ignorant.


-Rick Farris

Rick,I believe when I read Jackie McCoys excerpt in the book "In The Corner", he spoke of Raul Rojas and Mando being partners in all kinds of shenannigans.
Great fighters who liked to have lots of fun.

Expug wrote:Yep Rick.
I know the stuff was no joke. McCoy made it very clear in that book.
I dont know how they were able to carry on and fight for as long as they did.

scartissue wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

bennie wrote:
Finnegan gave Conteh two hard fights whereas Lopez was easily outboxed by Conteh, so I go for Finnegan in a close, exciting, bloody one.
Stracey was lucky that he got to Napoles after Muniz, so I lean towards Armando in a war.
Cowdell was a great boxer while Pineda was tough and brave but not consistently world class. Cowdell wins a decision.
I must admit I don't know enough about Rudkin or Lara - sadly - to offer a view.
Walker was limited but gutsy and always capable of pulling out a big one as he showed in the first fight with Johnny Prescott. However, I feel that Orbillo's toughess would have earned him the points in front of a giant crowd.

Scar . . . You are likely right on the Finnigan-Lopez match. In this match, I picked my favorite but not with confidence that he'd leave the ring with a win. I see Armando beating up Stracey, especially late in the fight. Not cut on the Brit, but I don't see him as lucky with the Armando as he was with the way past prime Napoles. As for Cowdell. I agree, he has boxing skills and Pineda is easy to hit, and also has a soft chin. Pineda would have to lay a lot of fury on Cowdell early and land a big one to get the win. I saw enough of Rudkin up close (at the end of his career) to know that he'd have had a tough time with Lara. I worked a lot with Rogelio prior to his title fight with Romeo Anaya. Lara was robbed in that one at the Forum. I don't see one British or Europen bantamweight in history capable of competing with any of the Mexican crop of the 60's-70's.
I can say the same thing for bantamweights from any part of the world during that era, including the USA. As for Kaylor & Nixon, Kaylor isn't that much, but Nixon wasn't either. Take your pick, but I'd never bet on Nixon's chin. Orbillo was a good one, too bad they didn't have the cruiserweight division back then. Joey was fast, boxed nice, hit hard, but just too small for the heavyweights. He might have a chance with Walker, who was a nice looking fella but not competitive among the creme of the 60's crop.

Rick, actually that was Bennie who made those predictions. My own picks would actually mirror yours. I cannot see Lopez losing to Finnegan, but Chris was all heart and would be there at the end. No doubt in my mind that Muniz would stop Stracey. Pineda could rock with that left hook to either body or head, but Cowdell had a good set of whiskers and was a good boxer with a lot of experience over 15 rounds. Gotta go with Pat here. Kaylor and Nixon is really close. Nixon had some nice wins over Rossman and Gert Steyn, but Kaylor was no mug himself and showed real resiliency against Sibson and his knock down drag out with Errol Christie. Like you, it's Kaylor by a chin. It's still in my menory of Art and George Davis taking Nixon out. The Rudkin-Lara match would be razor close. Rudkin was in with Olivares, Harada, Rose, McGowan. While Lara was in with Castillo, Martinez, Sanchez, Anaya. They both fought at the very top and being shaded for the title. It's so close but Lara by a nose. The last one could be fought 10 times and they could go 5-5 with one another. Walker by a shade.

Scartissue

BoxBuzz wrote:

Is this a different version of the same honor, via a different actual belt?

Expug wrote:Frank,Im a Jimmy Reed fan.Im thinking you probably like his stuff also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkqGgCCWjus

Expug wrote:Rick,in my limited knowledge of Mando,it seems that success just came at s break neck pace for him.
It seems as though he had such a limited amateur career and became a champ and tremendous fighter at a young age.
Maybe it happened too fast or something.I dont know.Maybe his natural ability worked against him in the long run.If that makes sense?

bennie wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:

Is this a different version of the same honor, via a different actual belt?

This is the Lord Lonsdale Challenge Belt, a very rare belt indeed, introduced in 1909 and only superceded by the Lonsdale Belt in 1936 when the British Boxing Board of Control was formed.


PS: Manchester's Johnny King and Nel Tarleton of Liverpool are the only men to have won this belt AND the Lonsdale Belt outright.

Rick Farris wrote:

Expug wrote:Rick,in my limited knowledge of Mando,it seems that success just came at s break neck pace for him.
It seems as though he had such a limited amateur career and became a champ and tremendous fighter at a young age.
Maybe it happened too fast or something.I dont know.Maybe his natural ability worked against him in the long run.If that makes sense?

Brian, Mando was a well known, money making boxing star before his 18th birthday.
However, the partying started years before that.
Watching Mando Ramos develop into a mature, experienced prizefighter was never the plan.
Mando told me, "My goal was to become the youngest lightweight champ in history. Once I'd accomplished that goal I was done. I never planned what to do once I won the title."

raylawpc wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

Expug wrote:Rick,in my limited knowledge of Mando,it seems that success just came at s break neck pace for him.
It seems as though he had such a limited amateur career and became a champ and tremendous fighter at a young age.
Maybe it happened too fast or something.I dont know.Maybe his natural ability worked against him in the long run.If that makes sense?

Brian, Mando was a well known, money making boxing star before his 18th birthday.
However, the partying started years before that.
Watching Mando Ramos develop into a mature, experienced prizefighter was never the plan.
Mando told me, "My goal was to become the youngest lightweight champ in history. Once I'd accomplished that goal I was done. I never planned what to do once I won the title."

His decline was pretty rapid, too. In 1975, he came to Oklahoma City to fight Al Franklin. He looked very ordinary in boxing his way to a decision win. Mando was 27-years-old, and it was clear whatever he had was gone. I couldn't believe this was the same guy who burst onto the boxing scene in the late 60s as a teenage phenom.

Rick Farris wrote:Frank . . .

I've only seen Lauro Salas fight on film. I saw Mando Ramos up close.
You saw both up close.

At their best, who do you believe was the best?
Ramos burned out young, having never reached his potential.
Salas endured a long career.
All that aside, the Salas that beat Carter vs. the Ramos that whipped Teo Cruz?

bennie wrote:Carter was a strange fighter - real hot and cold.

kikibalt wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:Frank . . .

I've only seen Lauro Salas fight on film. I saw Mando Ramos up close.
You saw both up close.

At their best, who do you believe was the best?
Ramos burned out young, having never reached his potential.
Salas endured a long career.
All that aside, the Salas that beat Carter vs. the Ramos that whipped Teo Cruz?

With a doubt, Mando was the better fighter by far. Salas was at his best a very good club fighter that got lucky when he beat Carter. Salas was going nowhere until he got in a bar fight with Art Aragon, a fight that was maybe a two punch fight, but it got so much press that it became the mother of all bar fights, the Eaton's played it up and match them at the Olympic, a fight that I seen live. Salas gave Aragon such a great fight that he was rewarded with a title fight against Carter, again, Salas out did himself, losing a 15 round D, again, he was rewarded with a rematch, which he won, Carter easily won the title back in the rubber match.

Rick Farris wrote:

bennie wrote:Carter was a strange fighter - real hot and cold.

Bennie, from what I've been told, Carter "lost" some fights he could have won.
He was managed by Blinky Palermo, and was to known to carry a guys at times, and willing to do what he was told.
I know one thing about Jimmy Carter, and that is Ike Williams did not like him.
I spoke with Williams' half-brother about ten years ago and he told me of his brother's dislike of Jimmy Carter.

Expug wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

bennie wrote:Carter was a strange fighter - real hot and cold.

Bennie, from what I've been told, Carter "lost" some fights he could have won.
He was managed by Blinky Palermo, and was to known to carry a guys at times, and willing to do what he was told.
I know one thing about Jimmy Carter, and that is Ike Williams did not like him.
I spoke with Williams' half-brother about ten years ago and he told me of his brother's dislike of Jimmy Carter.

Ive heard that about carter also.
One thing that confuses me(there are plenty of other things also ) is looking at Ikes record in the boxrec database,it says that Williams claimed he threw the fight against Chuck Davey.
As a kid growing up,my Dad and other fight fans from that era,always talked about Davey as being built up.I never heard about Williams throwing one against him though.
Recently,I watched Davey vs Graziano.It sure looked to me like Rocky wasnt pulling the trigger with his right hand when he sure could have.