BoxRec

Guys, I'd like to throw out a topic of discussion. That being, Jose Napoles. And I want to pick your brains. I'll surf some message boards on fantasy matchups and whenever I see Napoles vs. someone or other, it usually ends with, "if he doesn't get cut" or if he survives his cuts". That type of thing. I've really been studying Mantequilla's record and I've come up with something. I don't think he really was the bleeder that history has stigmatized him (I wasn't trying to be funny). We all know he was stopped on cuts by LC Morgan earlier in his career, but when was the next time he was cut? In his 64th fight he gets his title shot. He has two bouts with Curtis Cokes and one with Emile Griffith and no cuts. Has anyone seen Cokes' jab? It was like a needle, yet, no cuts. He was cut a grand total of 7 times after that (that I know of). In both Billy Backus fights, the 2nd Ernie Lopez fight, Carlos Monzon, both Armando Muniz fights and of course the Stracey fight. I mean, he had at least 70 fights behind him by the time he fought Backus. A long hard career against the very best and the skin is going to go. But if anyone recalls back in the day by the time he came up to LA, was there any talk of him being a bleeder?

Scartissue

scartissue wrote:Guys, I'd like to throw out a topic of discussion. That being, Jose Napoles. And I want to pick your brains. I'll surf some message boards on fantasy matchups and whenever I see Napoles vs. someone or other, it usually ends with, "if he doesn't get cut" or if he survives his cuts". That type of thing. I've really been studying Mantequilla's record and I've come up with something. I don't think he really was the bleeder that history has stigmatized him (I wasn't trying to be funny). We all know he was stopped on cuts by LC Morgan earlier in his career, but when was the next time he was cut? In his 64th fight he gets his title shot. He has two bouts with Curtis Cokes and one with Emile Griffith and no cuts. Has anyone seen Cokes' jab? It was like a needle, yet, no cuts. He was cut a grand total of 7 times after that (that I know of). In both Billy Backus fights, the 2nd Ernie Lopez fight, Carlos Monzon, both Armando Muniz fights and of course the Stracey fight. I mean, he had at least 70 fights behind him by the time he fought Backus. A long hard career against the very best and the skin is going to go. But if anyone recalls back in the day by the time he came up to LA, was there any talk of him being a bleeder?

Scartissue

Mantequilla . . .

Dan, I believe that the few losses Mantequilla did suffer, were cut related.
Nobody who beat Napoles was better than he, NOBODY.
His close fights, the title defenses, (Lewis I & Muniz, for example) were more a product of Napoles not training.
How did his tougher opponents do in rematchs? They lost, all of them.
You never got lucky with Mantequilla twice.
And no, Napoles wasn't really regarded as a "bleeder", just a guy who could be cut.
Keep in mind, he was in his late 20's before he got a title shot, more than a decade after he turned pro.
A cut being the ONLY thing that could really defeat him.
I know there are a lot of Leonard fans here, but I don't think he was in Napoles league.
A guy like Leonard was shot after three dozen fights, and he always had every edge in every fight.
I rate Napoles competitive with ANY 147 pounder in history, with only a small handful that might defeat him.
I'm an old school guy, and I've heard a couple less than knowledgeable fans suggest that he didn't fight in the era of Robinson, Basileo, etc.
Believe me, those who know the caliber of Napoles opposition understand he fought as good as any that ever stepped into the ring.
My opinion.

CNorkusJr wrote:I agree with you Tom. To blow through millions of dollars in ones lifetime seems ridiculous to me, but in many cases,look at the people surrounding these guys. Certainly boxers should take most of the blame on their mis-spendings, but entourages and hanger ons (which the boxer apparently approves of now) leech most of the money.

I think for most of the old timers 40's-mid 60's, and especially that group who fought before TV and televised theatre, the times were a bit different. Usually the mgrs and so-called financial backers stole more than their share and of course the Carbo-Palermo/mob payout cuts to get bigger purses stole more than their shares leaving most boxers high and dry. What little they did get was usually mis-spent too. I'm talking about the contenders and pre-lim guys. Champions were suckers too but popularity got them wages outside of boxing too.
If a boxer was married it was a plus as she made sure some went to the bank instead of other vices. My father was a case in point here. Please note that my father never needed assistance and always worked during and after his boxing career.He helped start Ring 8 back in the early 50's along with many others. Boxers for boxers. Today, you would think these millionaire boxing guys would support these groups to the tune of thousands, but no, most VBA have to hold events to get contributions to pay overhead. Most $$$ comes from dues paying members and occaisional hundred dollar or $1,000 donation..

The Veteran Boxers Groups I talk about are groups that actively try to reach out to guys who are essentially good guys but no means of income. They pick up medicine tabs as well of assisting with govt housing placement to get a roof over their heads. They help fill out the paperwork for federal or state relief funds and when needed lay out cash so the boxer eats.Also, pugilistic dementia is a huge problem, but state assistance where available is better than dying on the streets.

No cash gets handed to the boxer outright-unless he has a person with him to oversee his care. Holiday gifts are in order so that the guy feels like he has family too. Placement family counseling services are tried if all agree it helps. Most boxers ID's are kept confidential -only known to org. trustees who write out the checks (cash). Some are known and appear at some of the meetings to say thanks for the new set of clothes he got.All are treated like champs. Donations are appreciated any time/and can explicitly be placed to a person or item of your choice. (Boxer health care/clothes/etc etc). Ring 1 in Philidelphia, Ring 8 in New York, Ring 4 in Boston are just a few and most have websites.

Charlie . . . Thanks for posting this information. In California, Alex Ramos runs the Retired Boxers Foundation, but I'm not sure how much this organization does for the boxers. I know they mean well, but I don't think they have a great deal of financial support. The State of California pays a lady to assist Bobby Chacon, a care taker. The same is true of Ken Norton. But most are overlooked. Who is responsible? Nobody wants to take that responsibility.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/artic ... gland?bn=1

I'm not sure if you got this in the States but the despicable actions of a middle-aged spinster last month caused outrage here.

Fifteen years ago next month (October 1995), James Murray died in an inspired challenge for the British bantamweight title against fellow Scot Drew Docherty.
Southpaw Murray was two minutes away from the Lonsdale Belt when he collapsed from an innocuous left jab in the 12th round, sparking surely the most sickening scenes in the entire history of British boxing as drunken fans clashed and tore apart the banqueting hall at Glasgow's Hospitality Inn while Murray’s life, in front of desperate family members, ebbed away. The level of violence was such that medics were forced to cart the stricken fighter from the hall rather than apply vital oxygen. It was Johnny Owen all over again, only this time it was Johnny Owen at home.
Nobody even tried to defend boxing in the aftermath. Co-promoter F rank Warren said: "I don't believe I could look the Murray family in the eyes and tell them there's nothing wrong with boxing." Alex Morrison said of the rioters: "They were not Jimmy's fans, they were not Docherty’s fans, they were scum."
The Board quickly ordered earlier weigh-ins because weight loss was undoubtedly a factor in Murray’s death, from a massive blood clot on the brain. To give a sense of the fight’s course is almost insulting, but Docherty, who had been down three times, outlasted Murray in the smoky, stifling, overcrowded atmosphere at what was strictly speaking a dinner show, but 'fans' had been allowed to congregate at the back of the hall.
The 25-year-old Murray, the reigning Scottish bantamweight champion, forever the Scottish champion, hailed from Newmains in Lanarkshire, a town blighted by unemployment and drug abuse, but he held down a job and treated his family with gifts from his boxing purses. His father, Kenneth, told Harry Mullan a few days after the tragedy: "Jim Murray did not die with a needle in his arm. He did not die up some back alley. He will always be remembered."

Rick Farris wrote:

Charlie . . . Thanks for posting this information. In California, Alex Ramos runs the Retired Boxers Foundation, but I'm not sure how much this organization does for the boxers. I know they mean well, but I don't think they have a great deal of financial support. The State of California pays a lady to assist Bobby Chacon, a care taker. The same is true of Ken Norton. But most are overlooked. Who is responsible? Nobody wants to take that responsibility.

Thanks Rick- We are familiar with Alex Ramos and his organization (RBF) here in NY. Alex was a New York fighter and a darn good one too. As you know, in the last year or so, Alex had a huge medical setback that almost took him away from us. Thank the Lord he has pulled through that situation and seems to be okay for now. Up until this incident, he was in New York alot and visited the various boxing organizations in this area (Ring 1,8,4; also NJ Boxing HOF meetings and attended all fight cards here in town during his visit). He was and still an exceptional spokesman for the Ret. Boxers Foundation. His organization is along the same lines as the various ring organizations that exist. He probably got the idea to start this one up when he was a member of Ring 8. The various Ring locals (Veteran Boxers Assn-VBA) are essentially just that -locals. What used to be nation wide locals under one bigger blanket, are now dwindled down to just a handful in the USA. Various reasons forced closure of some-less interest and funding are the main reasons.The popularity of the sport has dwindled significantly since the 50's when these org. were started. Club boxing doesnt exist(not like it use to) and the need is down tremendously.Your mentioning of the responsibility of taking care of these guys is important. The main reason for these groups are not to single-handedly support these guys with everyday care-but rather (boxers for boxers) be up on what care might be available to them at state and federal levels, and picking up the smaller tabs for clothing and medicine if needed. For example-for a guy like Tommy Harrison,probably no-one wants to assist more other than passerbys handing him a few dollars in cash everyday to sweep.And Tommy himself has pride in who he was and is and other than the occasional tip-doesnt want anything else.
We find that when another boxer talks to another boxer,there is an immediate link (especially from same era) , and if our guy is informed about where the other guy can get assistance and we help him fill out forms and buy him clothes or whatever level he is at, it is more condusive to being a better situational result than he already is in. Most of his ongoing care will either be reconnect with lost families,state or federal help. The orgs. assist with that end as to leading him by hand to apply for things.
Some boxers have hard heads-and dont want the help-but we check on them every so often(if they stay in the area) and try to see if he will take some help.Not all live on the streets either-some guys just need a electric bill paid here and there. Things like that. There is assistance at many different levels-but in case of need only. One boxer I know needs only a ride to his doctors office once a month-he gets it.

Alex's group I believe is an all encompassing blanket nationwide. Not just locally, but because his efforts are home based in CA., more than likely thats where the majority of his support and the assistance is. He could speak better on that than I. He is filling in the spots where the Ring Orgs have folded and where the East coast leaves off. If you see Mr Ramos, tell him his friends in New York are always thinking of him and hope to see him in NY again soon. He is probably the go to guy in CA. to assist Tommy Harrison and other fighters like him. Alex gets support from some of the bigger names in boxing nowadays, but our economy has kicked ass on ALL of these organizations efforts. But in a good light-there arent as many fighters today in need as compared to years ago where many of these fighters would make up a pretty good sized voting Bloc somewhere.
Personally, it bewilders me how guys like Tyson,Holyfield and others blow through their ring earnings without considering their future or health well
being. I think they are a rare breed though-as most former fighters of the newer era seem to hold onto some of their cash now.
I know the Ring orgs are trying to get new fighters into the orgs early to see and hear from old pros who have words of wisdom. Not how to throw a jab correctly, but how essentially not to go through all your money on wine ,women and song. Well Wine and Song anyway.Save for a rainy day.

Rick Farris wrote:

CNorkusJr wrote:I agree with you Tom. To blow through millions of dollars in ones lifetime seems ridiculous to me, but in many cases,look at the people surrounding these guys. Certainly boxers should take most of the blame on their mis-spendings, but entourages and hanger ons (which the boxer apparently approves of now) leech most of the money.

I think for most of the old timers 40's-mid 60's, and especially that group who fought before TV and televised theatre, the times were a bit different. Usually the mgrs and so-called financial backers stole more than their share and of course the Carbo-Palermo/mob payout cuts to get bigger purses stole more than their shares leaving most boxers high and dry. What little they did get was usually mis-spent too. I'm talking about the contenders and pre-lim guys. Champions were suckers too but popularity got them wages outside of boxing too.
If a boxer was married it was a plus as she made sure some went to the bank instead of other vices. My father was a case in point here. Please note that my father never needed assistance and always worked during and after his boxing career.He helped start Ring 8 back in the early 50's along with many others. Boxers for boxers. Today, you would think these millionaire boxing guys would support these groups to the tune of thousands, but no, most VBA have to hold events to get contributions to pay overhead. Most $$$ comes from dues paying members and occaisional hundred dollar or $1,000 donation..

The Veteran Boxers Groups I talk about are groups that actively try to reach out to guys who are essentially good guys but no means of income. They pick up medicine tabs as well of assisting with govt housing placement to get a roof over their heads. They help fill out the paperwork for federal or state relief funds and when needed lay out cash so the boxer eats.Also, pugilistic dementia is a huge problem, but state assistance where available is better than dying on the streets.

No cash gets handed to the boxer outright-unless he has a person with him to oversee his care. Holiday gifts are in order so that the guy feels like he has family too. Placement family counseling services are tried if all agree it helps. Most boxers ID's are kept confidential -only known to org. trustees who write out the checks (cash). Some are known and appear at some of the meetings to say thanks for the new set of clothes he got.All are treated like champs. Donations are appreciated any time/and can explicitly be placed to a person or item of your choice. (Boxer health care/clothes/etc etc). Ring 1 in Philidelphia, Ring 8 in New York, Ring 4 in Boston are just a few and most have websites.

Charlie . . . Thanks for posting this information. In California, Alex Ramos runs the Retired Boxers Foundation, but I'm not sure how much this organization does for the boxers. I know they mean well, but I don't think they have a great deal of financial support. The State of California pays a lady to assist Bobby Chacon, a care taker. The same is true of Ken Norton. But most are overlooked. Who is responsible? Nobody wants to take that responsibility.

Jerry Cheatham over in Arizona is trying to get something going too. I think he is working with Alex Ramos on this. I told Jerry when we met in LA that I'm available to help with any tax/legal/financial issues but I haven't heard anything.

Dead man's eyes. This amazing image of Barry McGuigan before the start of his disastrous 15th round against Steve Cruz was captured by Chris Smith of the Sunday Times. Look at the stupid Panamanian cornerman pinching Barry's ears.

Thats outstanding Tom. These organizations need guys like yourself to help them achieve their goals.
I just want to add here that these organization's members are not just former fighters.A great many are boxers from all levels-amateur,prelims,pro champs, but also many members are also doctors,lawyers, businessmen,actors,firefighters and policemen and just everyday fans and all are dedicated to the sport of boxing. The monthly meetings are great here. For a guy like me to eat a pre-meeting meal with Vito Antuefermo & Iran Barkley and other pro fighters mixed in to our usual 150-225 member attended meetings is a great experience. Last night we ran a video from a recent HBO production on ALS and its POSSIBLE LINK to head blows in sports. Scott LeDoux was interviewed in this. After, a discussion with a neurology doctor from the NYS Athletic Commission who came by invite by Matt Farago ,gave his views and Pres Matt Farago talked about his experience talking to the leading researcher up in Boston on this matter. Other org business followed. Then a raffle for a Fullmer Bros. autographed picture followed donated by a boxing collector.I believe the minutes of the meeting will be posted in a day or two on "Ring 8" website for all interested.
http://www.ring8ny.com

Alan Rudkin has died.

bennie wrote:Alan Rudkin has died.

Thanks for posting Bennie

RIP, Alan Rudkin

In the first boxing scenes in the movie The Ring; the ring announcer is Bill Lennon, farther of the Lennon Sister and brother of Jimmy Lennon. Bill Lennon was killed in 1969, see link below.

http://www.maebrussell.com/1960s%20Terr ... illed.html

Rick Farris wrote:

scartissue wrote:Guys, I'd like to throw out a topic of discussion. That being, Jose Napoles. And I want to pick your brains. I'll surf some message boards on fantasy matchups and whenever I see Napoles vs. someone or other, it usually ends with, "if he doesn't get cut" or if he survives his cuts". That type of thing. I've really been studying Mantequilla's record and I've come up with something. I don't think he really was the bleeder that history has stigmatized him (I wasn't trying to be funny). We all know he was stopped on cuts by LC Morgan earlier in his career, but when was the next time he was cut? In his 64th fight he gets his title shot. He has two bouts with Curtis Cokes and one with Emile Griffith and no cuts. Has anyone seen Cokes' jab? It was like a needle, yet, no cuts. He was cut a grand total of 7 times after that (that I know of). In both Billy Backus fights, the 2nd Ernie Lopez fight, Carlos Monzon, both Armando Muniz fights and of course the Stracey fight. I mean, he had at least 70 fights behind him by the time he fought Backus. A long hard career against the very best and the skin is going to go. But if anyone recalls back in the day by the time he came up to LA, was there any talk of him being a bleeder?

Scartissue

Mantequilla . . .

Dan, I believe that the few losses Mantequilla did suffer, were cut related.
Nobody who beat Napoles was better than he, NOBODY.
His close fights, the title defenses, (Lewis I & Muniz, for example) were more a product of Napoles not training.
How did his tougher opponents do in rematchs? They lost, all of them.
You never got lucky with Mantequilla twice.
And no, Napoles wasn't really regarded as a "bleeder", just a guy who could be cut.
Keep in mind, he was in his late 20's before he got a title shot, more than a decade after he turned pro.
A cut being the ONLY thing that could really defeat him.
I know there are a lot of Leonard fans here, but I don't think he was in Napoles league.
A guy like Leonard was shot after three dozen fights, and he always had every edge in every fight.
I rate Napoles competitive with ANY 147 pounder in history, with only a small handful that might defeat him.
I'm an old school guy, and I've heard a couple less than knowledgeable fans suggest that he didn't fight in the era of Robinson, Basileo, etc.
Believe me, those who know the caliber of Napoles opposition understand he fought as good as any that ever stepped into the ring.
My opinion.

I agree with everything you wrote except, although Angelo Dundee stopped the Monzon fight because Napoles suffered an eye injury, the fact of the matter is that Monzon was dominating Napoles, and would have stopped him eventually. I do not hold that loss against him, however. Napoles really wasn't much more than an overstuffed lightweight, and he had no business in the ring with a big ATG middleweight like Monzon.

BTW, when I wrote that Napoles was an overstuffed lightweight, I meant that as a compliment. The guy was really small for a welter, yet he was an all-time great in the division.

Alfredo “Perro” Angulo Will Get Deported, His Career Is Over

September 21, 2010
Filed under Boxing News,

Illegal status finishes the boxing career of fan favorite Alfredo Angulo. The only remaining question is when ICE, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency of the federal government, will remove the 19-1, 16 KOs slugger out of the United States and send him back to his native country of Mexico.

Michael Marley from Examiner.com broke the exclusive news. Through several sources, including Top Rank promoter Bob Arum, that HBO‘s legal department has advised Angulo promoter Big Gary Shaw that because the action fighter is in America illegally the prime cable network will not use him on its airwaves.

“Nobody is going to touch this guy,” Arum told me. “Nobody is interested now because of the huge legal problem. He picked the wrong time to be an illegal immigrant in our country, that’s for sure.”

Other sources tell me that the news that Angulo first entered the U.S. illegally, was later deported back to Mexico and then snuck back in at least a second time blinsided both Shaw, who has spent considerable time and money over about four years building his burgeoning career, and manager Mike Criscio.

It was Shaw’s persistence and connections that got Angulo great TV exposure on Showtime.

Criscio and Shaw contacted boxing’s premier immigration lawyer, Los Angeles-based Frank Ronzio, to see what could be to alter or adjust Angulo’s status.

There was no good news forthcoming on that front from either side of the border.

Certainly, no American politician is going to bat for an illegal even an athletic celebrity like Angulo, not in the current heated climate in which both the Democratic and Republican parties are battling over what to do about the tide of illegals in a trying economic period.

“Angulo never told anybody about it,” a source familiar with the situation said Tuesday. “He was at ringside at the Sergio Mora-Shane Mosley fight in L.A. acting like he doesn’t have a care in the world. He is as brazen outside the ring as he is in it when that opening bell rings.”

Attempts to reach Shaw and Criscio were unsuccessful.

Alfredo Angulo. who was born in border city Mexicali, had a significant amateur career. He represented Mexico in the 2004 Olympics but dropped a 38-23 decision to Ireland’s Andy Lee. He also won a bronze medal in the 2003 Pan American Games.

His lone pro defeat came at the hands of rugged Kermit Cintron, by unanimous decision over 12 rounds in a WBC super welterweight elimination bout in Hollywood, Florida, on May 3, 2009.

Angulo rationalized that loss, claiming he had the flu or stomach woes as I recall.

I asked informed sources whether HBO or Showtime would screen an Angulo bout or bouts out of Mexico.

“I don’t think so,” one veteran boxing man said. “It’s different than when Showtime televised Edwin Valero in a fight from Mexico. Valero was barred from entry because of a DUI case in Las Vegas. I don’t think he had been deported and then brazenly snuck back into the U.S.”

In his two most recent bouts, Angulo (who wears a dog collar around his neck to sumbolize his ferocity) defeated the once highly touted Joel Julio and then blasted out Joachim Alcine in one round on July 17 in California.

It looks like that fight will be Alfredo Angulo’s last in America.

This immigration fight, given his past illegal conduct, is one he cannot possibly win.

Rick/Randy & guys, below is a picture of a guy at the Maravilla Projects, where some of L.A.'s top fighters lived.

bennie wrote:Alan Rudkin has died.

Sad news. A great Brit fighter who challenged three times for the world bantamweight title!


ALAN RUDKIN

birth date 1941-11-28
death date 2010-09-22
division bantamweight
stance orthodox
country United Kingdom
residence Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom
birth place Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom

1972-01-25 117¾ Johnny Clark 117¼ 30-2-1
Royal Albert Hall, Kensington, London, United Kingdom W PTS 15 15x3
~ 73½-73 ~
~ BBBofC British bantamweight title ~
~ Commonwealth (British Empire) bantamweight title ~

1971-08-10 Agustin Senin 35-0-1
The Bull Ring, Bilbao, País Vasco, Spain L PTS 15 15
~ EBU (European) bantamweight title ~

1971-05-25 Hugo Bidyeran 36-2-4
Royal Albert Hall, Kensington, London, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
1971-02-16 117½ Franco Zurlo 116¼ 27-1-2
Royal Albert Hall, Kensington, London, United Kingdom W TKO 11 15x3
~ EBU (European) bantamweight title ~

1970-09-08 Jimmy Revie 24-2-0
Empire Pool, Wembley, London, United Kingdom L PTS 15 15x3
~ referee: Harry Gibbs 73½-74 ~
~ BBBofC British featherweight title ~

1970-04-21 118 Johnny Clark 117 26-0-1
Royal Albert Hall, Kensington, London, United Kingdom W TKO 12 15x3
~ vacant Commonwealth (British Empire) bantamweight title ~
~ BBBofC British bantamweight title ~

1969-12-12 118 Ruben Olivares 117½ 53-0-1
Forum, Inglewood, California, United States L TKO 2 15
~ time: 2:30 | referee: John Thomas ~
~ WBC bantamweight title ~
~ WBA World bantamweight title ~
Rudkin was down once in the 1st, and twice in the 2nd.

1969-09-29 122 Karimu Young 122 3-3-0
Anglo-American Sporting Club, Mayfair, London, United Kingdom W TKO 1 10x3
~ referee: Bill White ~

1969-06-09 117¾ Evan Armstrong 117 28-7-1
King's Hall, Belle Vue, Manchester, Lancashire, United Kingdom W TKO 11 15x3
~ BBBofC British bantamweight title ~

1969-03-08 117¾ Lionel Rose 118 32-2-0
Kooyong Tennis Stadium, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia L SD 15 15
~ referee: Vic Patrick 63-70 | judge: Ray Mitchell 60-75 | judge: Ron Walden 70-69 ~
~ WBC bantamweight title ~
~ WBA World bantamweight title ~
~ Commonwealth (British Empire) bantamweight title ~

1968-11-12 120¾ Manny Elias 120 49-20-2
Empire Pool, Wembley, London, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
~ referee: Harry Gibbs 49¾-47¾ ~

1968-10-03 120½ Rudy Corona 119 47-24-1
Hilton Hotel (Anglo American SC), Mayfair, London, United Kingdom W TKO 7 8x3
~ time: 2:10 | referee: Harry Gibbs ~

1968-08-20 120½ Billy Brown 119½ 9-23-4
Anglo American Sporting Club, Hotel Piccadilly, Manchester, Lancashire, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
~ referee: Wally Thom 50-47½ ~

1968-05-13 117¼ Walter McGowan 116½ 26-6-1
King's Hall, Belle Vue, Manchester, Lancashire, United Kingdom W PTS 15 15x3
~ referee: Harry Gibbs 73½-73 ~
~ Commonwealth (British Empire) bantamweight title ~
~ BBBofC British bantamweight title ~

1968-01-08 120¼ Pornchai Poprai-ngam 118¾ 2-6-0
Ice Rink, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
~ referee: Roland Dakin 50-47½ ~

1967-12-05 119½ Ronnie Jones 119½ 23-10-0
Royal Albert Hall, Kensington, London, United Kingdom W KO 2 10x3
~ time: 0:19 ~

1967-04-28 117 Mimoun Ben Ali 117 60-15-8
Barcelona, Cataluña, Spain L PTS 15 15
~ EBU (European) bantamweight title ~
Boxing News May 7, 1967

1967-03-07 120½ Norikazu Tsukanazawa 121½ 1-3-1
Royal Albert Hall, Kensington, London, United Kingdom W TKO 7 10x3
~ time: 0:55 | referee: Harry Gibbs ~

1966-12-12 123 Bobby Davies 124 23-18-4
Hilton Hotel (Anglo American SC), Mayfair, London, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
~ 49¼-48½ ~

1966-11-08 119½ Bob Allotey 119 44-7-2
Town Hall, Shoreditch, London, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
~ referee: Benny Caplan 49¾-48 ~

1966-10-24 120 Jose Bisbal 119½ 25-13-2
King's Hall, Belle Vue, Manchester, Lancashire, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
~ referee: Roland Dakin 50-48 ~

1966-09-06 118 Walter McGowan 115 21-4-1
Empire Pool, Wembley, London, United Kingdom L PTS 15 15x3
~ referee: Bill Jones ~
~ Commonwealth (British Empire) bantamweight title ~
~ BBBofC British bantamweight title ~

1966-03-21 120¼ Raul Vega 118½ 21-3-0
Ice Rink, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
~ referee: Austin O'Connor ~

1966-01-31 119½ Edmundo Esparza 121 32-7-1
King's Hall, Belle Vue, Manchester, Lancashire, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
~ referee: Billy Simpson ~

1966-01-11 120 Felipe Gonzalez 118¼ 14-1-2
Royal Albert Hall, Kensington, London, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
~ referee: Bill White ~

1965-11-30 117¼ Fighting Harada 117½ 40-3-0
Nihon Budokan, Tokyo, Japan L UD 15 15
~ referee: Ko Toyama 66-74 | judge: Nick Pope 70-72 | judge: Hiroyuki Tezaki 65-74 ~
~ WBC bantamweight title ~
~ WBA World bantamweight title ~

1965-10-11 120¼ Michel Lamora 122 33-44-4
Hilton Hotel (Anglo American SC), Mayfair, London, United Kingdom W TKO 5 10x3
~ referee: Harry Gibbs ~

1965-06-15 119½ Ray Asis 116¼ 24-10-3
Royal Albert Hall, Kensington, London, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
~ referee: Bill Williams ~

1965-04-27 120 Mimoun Ben Ali 120 44-13-8
New St James Hall, Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
1965-03-22 117½ Johnny Caldwell 117¾ 29-3-1
Ice Rink, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, United Kingdom W TKO 10 15x3
~ referee: George Smith ~
~ Commonwealth (British Empire) bantamweight title ~
~ BBBofC British bantamweight title ~

1965-01-26 119½ Jose Cejuda 122 13-13-2
Olympia, Kensington, London, United Kingdom W TKO 5 8x3
~ referee: Bill Williams ~

1964-11-30 118 Baby John 116 2-6-1
King's Hall, Belle Vue, Manchester, Lancashire, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
1964-11-09 119¼ Brian Cartwright 118 33-13-2
South Bank Sporting Club, Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
~ referee: Fred Winthrip ~

1964-10-05 118¼ Brian Cartwright 120 33-12-2
New St James Hall, Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
1964-06-30 118½ Orizu Obilaso 119½ 8-4-2
Majestic Ballroom, Finsbury Park, London, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
1964-06-16 118¼ Don Weller 121¾ 17-4-3
Town Hall, Shoreditch, London, United Kingdom W TKO 5 8x3
~ referee: Jack Hart ~

1964-03-09 120 Danny Lee 117¾ 11-6-1
Free Trade Hall, Manchester, Lancashire, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
1963-11-12 120¼ Pierre Vetroff 120¾ 24-10-1
Empire Pool, Wembley, London, United Kingdom W PTS 10 10x3
1963-07-30 118¼ Brian Cartwright 118 26-9-0
Winter Gardens, Blackpool, Lancashire, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
1963-05-20 118¼ Brian Bissmire 119½ 12-9-2
King's Hall, Belle Vue, Manchester, Lancashire, United Kingdom W DQ 7 8x3
1963-03-28 117¾ Eddie Barraclough 119¾ 13-25-4
The Stadium, Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
1963-02-27 119 Danny Wells 120 8-11-4
King George's Hall, Blackburn, Lancashire, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
1963-02-07 118 Eddie Barraclough 120 13-23-4
Tower Circus, Blackpool, Lancashire, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
1962-12-13 119 Eddie Barraclough 119 13-21-4
The Stadium, Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom W PTS 8 8x3
1962-11-05 118 Danny Wells 120 7-10-4
Town Hall, Leeds, Yorkshire, United Kingdom W TKO 4 8x3
Cut eyebrow

1962-10-04 116 Tommy Burgoyne 120¾ 9-13-1
The Stadium, Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom W TKO 4 6x3
1962-09-06 116 Carl Taylor 117 11-1-2
The Stadium, Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom W PTS 6 6x3
1962-06-29 118¼ Gerry Jones 14-20-1
Colwyn Bay, Wales, United Kingdom W KO 1 6x3
1962-06-04 117½ Carl Taylor 116 9-1-2
National Sporting Club, Piccadilly, London, United Kingdom L TKO 4 6x3
1962-05-15 118 Dickie Hanna 116 3-1-0
The Stadium, Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom W KO 2 6x3

Hey Frank, check out the thread on the three fighters you would like to have managed. Since you are the only guy in this board who actually managed a fighter, I'd personally be interested in knowing who you might have liked to manage . . .

raylawpc wrote:Hey Frank, check out the thread on the three fighters you would like to have managed. Since you are the only guy in this board who actually managed a fighter, I'd personally be interested in knowing who you might have liked to manage . . .

I already had my 3 fighters, Frankie, Tony and Bobby....lol!. Okay I'll check it out....

kikibalt wrote:

raylawpc wrote:Hey Frank, check out the thread on the three fighters you would like to have managed. Since you are the only guy in this board who actually managed a fighter, I'd personally be interested in knowing who you might have liked to manage . . .

I already had my 3 fighters, Frankie, Tony and Bobby....lol!. Okay I'll check it out....

I knew you would say that . . .

bennie wrote:Alan Rudkin has died.

Alan Rudkin . . .

I'm truly saddened to learn of his death. I met Rudkin briefly in 1969, when he came to L.A. to challenge the great Ruben Olivares for the World Bantamweight title. We talked, and I told him I had family in England. I was well aware that he was in for a bad night when he faced Olivares, just as Lionel Rose was a few months earlier when Ruben won the title in the same ring.

In the early sixties, when I began following boxing, I prefered the lower weight classes, especially bantam and featherweights. I was always partial to the great Mexican fighters, but my British bloodline led me to keep an eye on boxers from the U.K. and one of them was Alan Rudkin. I remember reading about Alan in Boxing Illustrated, a big feature story that claimed that Rudkin had been a school mate with a couple of the Beatles. He'd given both Fighting Harada and Lionel Rose a good go in his earlier attempts to win the title. I knew Harada was a great bantam, and Rudkin had done himself and Great Britain proud in his attempt to bring home the 118lb. title.

I remember sitting with my dad at the Forum the night he stepped into the ring with Olivares. The Mexican crowd was just as tough on a challenger as the great talent from below the border. Rudkin entered the ring to the sound of boos. More than 18,000 packed the Forum that night, hundreds had made the journey from below the border to cheer on Olivares, many of the same fans that had rioted the previous year when Rose edged Chucho Castillo in the same ring. The only ones in the house rooting for Alan Rudkin were a small group of British who lived in Southern Cal, but their cheers were drown out by the explosive Mexican crowd. Olivares entered the ring to the sound of Mariachi music, firecracker and cherry bomb explosions and a thunderous ovation.

At the time, Alan Rudkin was at the end of his career, this was his last shot, and he faced overwhelming odds when the bell rang.
About half way thru the opening round, Olivares sent the game Brit to the canvas. In round two, Rudkin was floored twice, the last time for good. I didn't expect much different, in my 17-year-old heart I believed that Ruben Olivares was the most dangerous knockout puncher in boxing and his record supported my belief.

At the time, I was living with my Grandmother, who was born in London nearly 70 years previous. She wasn't a boxing fan, but I had told her I was going to see an English bantam challenge for a world title. I had told her about Rudkin after meeting him at the Alexandria Hotel, where he had trained for the fight. The next morning she asked, "How did the boy from Liverpool do last night?" I told her he didn't last long, but few did against Olivares. At least he made a good paycheck for the evening.

Forty-one years have passed since that night at the Forum, and now I learn that this game English battler has now passed himself. I did not know Alan Rudkin, but our paths crossed briefly. When he came to town to fight for the bantam title, I was well aware of who he was. When we spoke, I liked him and was honored to meet a man I'd read about many times as I grew up in boxing.

Ever since reading Bennie's post on my I-Phone today while working, I've thought about Alan Rudkin.
Rest in peace, champ. You are a part of boxing history. God bless your soul.


-Rick Farris

kikibalt wrote:Rick/Randy & guys, below is a picture of a guy at the Maravilla Projects, where some of L.A.'s top fighters lived.

When I think of Maravilla, I can't help but think of my stablemate, the "Maravilla Kid" Ruben Navarro.
I also think of the Pimentel brothers, Jesus and Jose, and former California featherweight champ, Danny Valdez.
Thanks for the photo, Frank.

kikibalt wrote:Alfredo “Perro” Angulo Will Get Deported, His Career Is Over

September 21, 2010
Filed under Boxing News,

Illegal status finishes the boxing career of fan favorite Alfredo Angulo. The only remaining question is when ICE, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency of the federal government, will remove the 19-1, 16 KOs slugger out of the United States and send him back to his native country of Mexico.

Michael Marley from Examiner.com broke the exclusive news. Through several sources, including Top Rank promoter Bob Arum, that HBO‘s legal department has advised Angulo promoter Big Gary Shaw that because the action fighter is in America illegally the prime cable network will not use him on its airwaves.

“Nobody is going to touch this guy,” Arum told me. “Nobody is interested now because of the huge legal problem. He picked the wrong time to be an illegal immigrant in our country, that’s for sure.”

Other sources tell me that the news that Angulo first entered the U.S. illegally, was later deported back to Mexico and then snuck back in at least a second time blinsided both Shaw, who has spent considerable time and money over about four years building his burgeoning career, and manager Mike Criscio.

It was Shaw’s persistence and connections that got Angulo great TV exposure on Showtime.

Criscio and Shaw contacted boxing’s premier immigration lawyer, Los Angeles-based Frank Ronzio, to see what could be to alter or adjust Angulo’s status.

There was no good news forthcoming on that front from either side of the border.

Certainly, no American politician is going to bat for an illegal even an athletic celebrity like Angulo, not in the current heated climate in which both the Democratic and Republican parties are battling over what to do about the tide of illegals in a trying economic period.

“Angulo never told anybody about it,” a source familiar with the situation said Tuesday. “He was at ringside at the Sergio Mora-Shane Mosley fight in L.A. acting like he doesn’t have a care in the world. He is as brazen outside the ring as he is in it when that opening bell rings.”

Attempts to reach Shaw and Criscio were unsuccessful.

Alfredo Angulo. who was born in border city Mexicali, had a significant amateur career. He represented Mexico in the 2004 Olympics but dropped a 38-23 decision to Ireland’s Andy Lee. He also won a bronze medal in the 2003 Pan American Games.

His lone pro defeat came at the hands of rugged Kermit Cintron, by unanimous decision over 12 rounds in a WBC super welterweight elimination bout in Hollywood, Florida, on May 3, 2009.

Angulo rationalized that loss, claiming he had the flu or stomach woes as I recall.

I asked informed sources whether HBO or Showtime would screen an Angulo bout or bouts out of Mexico.

“I don’t think so,” one veteran boxing man said. “It’s different than when Showtime televised Edwin Valero in a fight from Mexico. Valero was barred from entry because of a DUI case in Las Vegas. I don’t think he had been deported and then brazenly snuck back into the U.S.”

In his two most recent bouts, Angulo (who wears a dog collar around his neck to sumbolize his ferocity) defeated the once highly touted Joel Julio and then blasted out Joachim Alcine in one round on July 17 in California.

It looks like that fight will be Alfredo Angulo’s last in America.

This immigration fight, given his past illegal conduct, is one he cannot possibly win.

After reading this today, I had to call referee Gwen Adair and give her the news.
She was heart broken. I wasn't a fan of Angulo, but Gwen and the fighter had been friends since the 2008 WBHOF banquet.

I agree with everything you wrote except, although Angelo Dundee stopped the Monzon fight because Napoles suffered an eye injury, the fact of the matter is that Monzon was dominating Napoles, and would have stopped him eventually. I do not hold that loss against him, however. Napoles really wasn't much more than an overstuffed lightweight, and he had no business in the ring with a big ATG middleweight like Monzon.

BTW, when I wrote that Napoles was an overstuffed lightweight, I meant that as a compliment. The guy was really small for a welter, yet he was an all-time great in the division.
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Dan, in addition to being a great fighter himself, Monzon was a lot bigger and quite a bit younger than Napoles, as you pointed out.
They might as well have matched him with Joe Frazier. At that point in Napoles career, Monzon was just too much to overcome.

Alan Rudkin, arguably the greatest bantamweight this country has ever produced and very much a forgotten hero, was found dead in a Liverpool street early yesterday morning. He was 68 and his death is not yet explained, and one hopes that the gifted little man, a modest man, was not killed in his beloved home city. Police are awaiting post-mortem results.
Alan did it all in a glittering career that won him British, Commonwealth and European titles and three cracks at the world title in a frightening era for the bantamweight division in the 1960s. Here, he might have won the world title but Alan was forced to travel to challenge Fighting Harada and Lionel Rose, dropping close decisions, and was stopped in two rounds by "Rockabye" Ruben Olivares in Los Angeles in 1969. All three champions were probably unbeatable at the time Rudkin faced them, and Alan was inexperienced when he took Harada the full 15 rounds in Tokyo in 1965.
Fresh-faced and with a mop of sandy hair, Alan looked very much the Beatle in his early career and first caught the eye as an amateur as part of the legendary Great Britain side which whitewashed the USA 10-0 at Wembley in 1961. Unlike Billy Walker, Rudkin was never a big puncher but destroyed many opponents mentally as he took over during the course of a fight, particularly the course of 15-rounders. Rudkin enjoyed 'sussing' his opponent before reacting. He won the British bantamweight title from Belfast great Johnny Caldwell on a rare stoppage in 10 rounds and enjoyed a fierce rivalry with Scottish great Walter McGowan, with whom he shared two 15-round pure boxing classics, and later saw off domestic challengers Evan Armstrong and Johnny Clark (twice). He also cleaned up in Europe.
His last fight with Walworth’s Clark at the Albert Hall in 1972 is arguably the best domestic bantamweight scrap ever seen on these shores, and Rudkin won it to leave the sport on a high and a huge void among the smaller weights in this country.
Sadly, Alan never really found meaning to his life after boxing. He ran pubs but too many idiots wanted to fight him, but he developed an inevitable liking for drink and you wonder why he was out in the early hours of Wednesday, although he was close to his city centre home.
Boxing historian Derek O’Dell saw him on Saturday night at the Shoreditch Town Hall bash, attended by hundreds of fighters who fought at the legendary cockpit arena, including Alan himself, and Alan "seemed a bit quiet" but perked up when he was reunited with Clark. Make no mistake, Alan Rudkin was right out of the boxing textbook, a complete fighter with every shot in the book, good stamina, defence and a brilliant boxing brain.
He is - and always will be - one of our boxing greats.

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Rick/Randy & guys, below is a picture of a guy at the Maravilla Projects, where some of L.A.'s top fighters lived.

When I think of Maravilla, I can't help but think of my stablemate, the "Maravilla Kid" Ruben Navarro.
I also think of the Pimentel brothers, Jesus and Jose, and former California featherweight champ, Danny Valdez.
Thanks for the photo, Frank.

That's a photo of my father from the 1940's, Andrew De La O, or as he was known in the barrio, Andy de Mara.

Randy