BoxRec

klompton wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

ThatOne wrote:
Every one of them would be favorites or live dogs against Dempsey.

LOL, you're letting emotions get the best of you now. The wreck of Cleveland Williams that Ali fought would be lucky to be alive if he fought Dempsey.

Miske lived... and he was a smaller dying wreck of the fighter he once had been than Williams. He even managed to last longer against Dempsey than Williams did against Ali...

ThatOne wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

ThatOne wrote:
Every one of them would be favorites or live dogs against Dempsey.

LOL, you're letting emotions get the best of you now. The wreck of Cleveland Williams that Ali fought would be lucky to be alive if he fought Dempsey.

I was using hyperbole against an opponent who wrote that Sam langford who died in 1956 sparred with Muhammad Ali eight years later.

Il Duce wrote:Destroys Cassius Clay in 2-Rounds, maybe even in 1-Round {Remember - Kent Green}

And Muhammad Ali,,,,,,,,,Jack tortures and humiliates him with a brutal onslaught
that Ali has never seen before, with the bout being stopped by a TKO 10. {Remember - Larry Holmes}

Il Duce wrote:Isn't Odd,

I'm asked to post my Top Heavyweights,,,,,,,,,

I do, and put up a pretty good list,,,,,,,And I get criticized, yet no one has the 'Balls'
to post their own list.

Absolutely no one, including the 'self-proclaimed' Kid Harmless........Mr. Klompton

That One..........Nothing,,,,,,, just pictures of Muhammad Ali shaking hands with dignitaries
Gilgamesh........Nothing,,,,,,, just empty hollow posts.
Keith Moon.......Nothng,,,,,,,, only a long uninspiring Drum Solo

Let me guess, who puts whom at #1.............

Il Duce wrote:Isn't Odd,

I'm asked to post my Top Heavyweights,,,,,,,,,

I do, and put up a pretty good list,,,,,,,And I get criticized, yet no one has the 'Balls'
to post their own list.

Absolutely no one, including the 'self-proclaimed' Kid Harmless........Mr. Klompton

That One..........Nothing,,,,,,, just pictures of Muhammad Ali shaking hands with dignitaries
Gilgamesh........Nothing,,,,,,, just empty hollow posts.
Keith Moon.......Nothng,,,,,,,, only a long uninspiring Drum Solo

Let me guess, who puts whom at #1.............

Il Duce wrote:Mr. Evren B.

It's not that hard if you cap it off at 1985 and earlier, and take the period of
each fighter's era and add the {fighting style of the days} into the equation.

For instance, Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali and his style would have 'not' been
welcomed in the 1910's and early-1920's.

It was more of a 'slam-bang' drag 'em out style.

But, since Jack was 'The Man' first, he gets the Top Slot.

1} Muhammad Ali loses points, for getting beat up by 'little' and 'raw-styled' Joe Frazier in the most important 'Fight of the Century'.

2} The 'Rumble in the Jungle' was more of George Foreman losing, than Muhammad Ali winning.........

3} Very bad performance's against Chuck Wepner, Ron Lyle, and Joe Bugner in 1975......

4} Was saved by a 'courageous effort' in the 'Manila Bout'' against a completely worn-out Joe Frazier.

5} A 'gift decision' over Kenny Norton in September 1976.

6} The 'horrible' effort and losing one in that, against 'pitty-pat' Jimmy Young in 1977.

7} Not sure what was going on in the bout with '16-Bout Pro' Alfredo Evangelista ..'Uruguayan' Heavyweight...

8} Losing to a '7-Bout Pro'.......Leon Spinks

9} Winning a 'close' {Peck, Jab and Hold} Decision over a 'confused' and on the verge of a nervous breakdown Leon Spinks in the rematch.

10} Selling the WBA Championship Belt for $400,000

11} Getting embarrassed, and not even trying to win against Larry Holmes. {100% Money Grab}

12} Pathetically out-of-shape against Trevor Berbick. Gave an effort in only 3-Rounds.

evrenb wrote:While I fully agree Williams was past his best I do think he still had ability...just take a look at his performance against Todd Herring which was one fight prior to the Ali match...he looked pretty awesome in spurts. If you can find a copy of the live footage....this fight was on the undercard of terrell vs doug jones if i remember correct....

Il Duce wrote:Mr. Evren B.

It's not that hard if you cap it off at 1985 and earlier, and take the period of
each fighter's era and add the {fighting style of the days} into the equation.

For instance, Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali and his style would have 'not' been
welcomed in the 1910's and early-1920's.

It was more of a 'slam-bang' drag 'em out style.

But, since Jack was 'The Man' first, he gets the Top Slot.

1} Muhammad Ali loses points, for getting beat up by 'little' and 'raw-styled' Joe Frazier in the most important 'Fight of the Century'.

(Joe was bigger than Dempsey in every muscle category and I never saw his bobbing and weaving style called "raw" by an expert.)

2} The 'Rumble in the Jungle' was more of George Foreman losing, than Muhammad Ali winning.........

(Watch the fight again, Il Manichino, he uses movement in the center of the ring to flummox Foreman and beat him to the punch, then he calmly walks to the ropes to let Foreman work his body until he gets bored and repeats the process....)

3} Very bad performance's against Chuck Wepner, Ron Lyle, and Joe Bugner in 1975...... ( He underestimated Wepner. He fought 61 times . No reasonable person expects a stellar performance every outing)

4} Was saved by a 'courageous effort' in the 'Manila Bout'' against a completely worn-out Joe Frazier. (He won the rubber match against his nemesis)

5} A 'gift decision' over Kenny Norton in September 1976. (Many experts including Budd Schuyler and AP disagree with you. Even UPI only had it 8-7 Norton. BTW, your hero had been retired from boxing for two years at the age of Ali was for that fight after getting schooled by Gene Tunney)

6} The 'horrible' effort and losing one in that, against 'pitty-pat' Jimmy Young in 1977.( He looked bad. BTW, your hero had been retired from boxing for three years at the age of Ali was for that fight after getting schooled by Gene Tunney)

7} Not sure what was going on in the bout with '16-Bout Pro' Alfredo Evangelista ..'Uruguayan' Heavyweight...

8} Losing to a '7-Bout Pro'.......Leon Spinks ( He was thirty six years old, in the early stages of Parkinson's Disease.BTW, your hero had been retired from boxing for four years at the age of Ali was for that fight after getting schooled by Gene Tunney

9} Winning a 'close' {Peck, Jab and Hold} Decision over a 'confused' and on the verge of a nervous breakdown Leon Spinks in the rematch. (See above)

10} Selling the WBA Championship Belt for $400,000, (He got paid to relinquish his belt after his retirement)

11} Getting embarrassed, and not even trying to win against Larry Holmes. {100% Money Grab} ( He needed the money and was literally a sick man. There's footage of him prior to the fight slurring his words and struggling with the speed bag. BTW, your hero had been retired from boxing for six years at age of Ali was for that fight after getting schooled by Gene Tunney>)

12} Pathetically out-of-shape against Trevor Berbick. Gave an effort in only 3-Rounds.

p4p1 wrote:Gotta say I am learning a fair bit about Jack Dempsey in this thread.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

evrenb wrote:While I fully agree Williams was past his best I do think he still had ability...just take a look at his performance against Todd Herring which was one fight prior to the Ali match...he looked pretty awesome in spurts. If you can find a copy of the live footage....this fight was on the undercard of terrell vs doug jones if i remember correct....

I've never heard of Todd Herring, so I'll have to take your word for it. He was a corpse against Ali, who was obviously on point. He just has too many great wins and performances for sooooooooo many to call his greatest night beating on a human heavy bag.

Adamj1987 wrote:i['ve read dempsey reffed pro wrestling bouts and rocky marceiano appearing at pro wrestling bouts as well

ThatOne wrote:

Adamj1987 wrote:i['ve read dempsey reffed pro wrestling bouts and rocky marceiano appearing at pro wrestling bouts as well

Mayweather too... He "beat" the 425 pound Big Show.

Il Duce implied Muhammad Ali was the first boxer to affiliate himself with wrestling.

Adamj1987 wrote:

ThatOne wrote:

Adamj1987 wrote:i['ve read dempsey reffed pro wrestling bouts and rocky marceiano appearing at pro wrestling bouts as well

Mayweather too... He "beat" the 425 pound Big Show.

Il Duce implied Muhammad Ali was the first boxer to affiliate himself with wrestling.

missed that post

i have a photo in a book of rocky not long before his death at stampede promotions with brett hitman hart as a child.

ali was deffinatly not the first the million dollar man (wrestler)'s dad was a boxer in the 50s

Il Duce wrote:Now Now Mr. That One,


You have turned yourself into a Major Liar........

I never said or implied that Muhammad Ali was the first boxer to associate himself with Wrestling.

I'm Telling On You..........

But, he did rip off the public {his adoring Sheep Following Fans} by the largest amount.

News Reporter, "Muhammad, what do you have say to your fans about the Tokyo Disaster."

Muhammad Ali, "Thank You. Thank You Very Much. Again 6,100,000 Thank You's."

News Reporter, 'Will you be doing any other Big Events."

Muhammad Ali, "Yes, I want to go over the Grand Canyon in a Jet Propelled Missle."

Il Duce wrote:Now Now Mr. That One,


You have turned yourself into a Major Liar........

I never said or implied that Muhammad Ali was the first boxer to associate himself with Wrestling.

I'm Telling On You..........

But, he did rip off the public {his adoring Sheep Following Fans} by the largest amount.

News Reporter, "Muhammad, what do you have say to your fans about the Tokyo Disaster."

Muhammad Ali, "Thank You. Thank You Very Much. Again 6,100,000 Thank You's."

News Reporter, 'Will you be doing any other Big Events."

Muhammad Ali, "Yes, I want to go over the Grand Canyon in a Jet Propelled Missle."

p4p1 wrote:The rules they ended up having for that fight were retarded. when they realised that the grappler would grapple eff Ali the rules were changed to stop that happening.

ThatOne wrote:

p4p1 wrote:The rules they ended up having for that fight were retarded. when they realised that the grappler would grapple eff Ali the rules were changed to stop that happening.

A wrestler will beat a boxer with wrestling rules. A boxer will beat a wrestler with boxing rules. It's really that simple.

ThatOne wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Now Now Mr. That One,


You have turned yourself into a Major Liar........

I never said or implied that Muhammad Ali was the first boxer to associate himself with Wrestling.

I'm Telling On You..........

But, he did rip off the public {his adoring Sheep Following Fans} by the largest amount.

News Reporter, "Muhammad, what do you have say to your fans about the Tokyo Disaster."

Muhammad Ali, "Thank You. Thank You Very Much. Again 6,100,000 Thank You's."

News Reporter, 'Will you be doing any other Big Events."

Muhammad Ali, "Yes, I want to go over the Grand Canyon in a Jet Propelled Missle."

Klompton saw it too... That's when you were harping on the Inoki exhibition. Ironically, although the rules were convoluted that match was more legit than most boxer-wrestler matches. I think PBF hit the 425 pound Big Show with brass knuckles when the ref wasn't looking to win his match. You did the same thing when you maligned Muhammad Ali for pitching roach spray but ignored the fact Dempsey pitched "magic elixir". I would argue that the former serves a useful purpose while the latter serves no purpose at all and is potentially dangerous, especially in Dempsey's time as most of that crap was mostly alcohol. Oh, Dempsey peddled cat food too...