BoxRec

Lancenix wrote:
It does not matter that he was OK. He did not get his ass off the mat.

But he was up at ten.

conty22 wrote:

Lancenix wrote:

crusader wrote:A fighter's ability isn't determined by their resume. AJ hasn't beaten anyone like Fury, just like Fury hadn't beaten anyone like Wlad, but I think he has the tools to.

Fury Joshua would be a chess match of styles and wills. Fury can be touched up with looping punches. Cunningham proved that and if Joshua would land that kind of shot it would be lights out!! But Fury is not easy to plan against. It would be interesting.

Who the eff has Joshua fought? Martin is a total bum. Go watch him against Zumbabo Love. Martin is even worse than Gavern or Firtha rofl.

Wilder was also knocking those bums with one shots and even more brutaly. How you can even effing compare novice boxer Joshua against Fury rofl?

Your analysis was based on fight against Martin who is a total bum? Pls. Martin is not even top 50

Fury was knocked on his ass badly by Cunningham. What happens if Joshua lands a looping shot?? You act like Joshua would have no shot in that fight. Fury was also down against some eastern Euro earlier in his career. Joshua would be dangerous to win against anyone in the world. You are just hating on Joshua. You cannot say for sure that joshua cannot win that fight. Quit being silly.

x2x wrote:

Lancenix wrote:
It does not matter that he was OK. He did not get his ass off the mat.

But he was up at ten.

Nah he was done man. The ref just saw what everyone else saw. This guy was done. If I were the ref i would have let it go on and I had misgivings about the ref before the fight started but there is not much to debate here. If martin had as much fight getting up as you do on this forum the fight would have continued. But he did not. He wanted out man. Let this one go.

I just watched it again and it looked to me that Martin was off the floor and halfway up but not fully erect at the count of ten. How exactly is the ten count rule worded? The ref should havesome leeway in this and the leeway should not be towards prematurely stopping a fight where both men can continue.

Rexob wrote:

crusader wrote:AJ is an offensive juggrrnaut. Admiittedly he hasn't defeated a top opponent, but I can't see many people coping with his attack and he'll probably just get better.

It may be a case of having to take him out beforr he can land something meaningful.

I disagree the best way would be nullify his offense and take him into deep waters then drowned him late on. Only one person is going to do that and his name = Tyson Fury!

I think both strategies have their merits depending on who he fights. Haye could take out Joshua early, Fury could outbox him. Either way it wont be easy task for anyone. Oh and there is one fighter who probably can do both, Luis Ortiz.

Lancenix wrote:

conty22 wrote:

Lancenix wrote:
Fury Joshua would be a chess match of styles and wills. Fury can be touched up with looping punches. Cunningham proved that and if Joshua would land that kind of shot it would be lights out!! But Fury is not easy to plan against. It would be interesting.

Who the eff has Joshua fought? Martin is a total bum. Go watch him against Zumbabo Love. Martin is even worse than Gavern or Firtha rofl.

Wilder was also knocking those bums with one shots and even more brutaly. How you can even effing compare novice boxer Joshua against Fury rofl?

Your analysis was based on fight against Martin who is a total bum? Pls. Martin is not even top 50

Fury was knocked on his ass badly by Cunningham. What happens if Joshua lands a looping shot?? You act like Joshua would have no shot in that fight. Fury was also down against some eastern Euro earlier in his career. Joshua would be dangerous to win against anyone in the world. You are just hating on Joshua. You cannot say for sure that joshua cannot win that fight. Quit being silly.

Keep talking trash. Wilder and Joshua are both same hypejobs. Wilder already fought better opponents . He also scored brutal kos against bums like Martin. That's not impressive. Joshua has no jab , no footwork . Easy fight for Fury

Lancenix wrote:
Nah he was done man. The ref just saw what everyone else saw. This guy was done. If I were the ref i would have let it go on and I had misgivings about the ref before the fight started but there is not much to debate here. If martin had as much fight getting up as you do on this forum the fight would have continued. But he did not. He wanted out man. Let this one go.

I didn't see the whole fight only the ending in that clip above - but if Martin "wanted out" all he had to do was stay on the floor one second longer and then there would have been no debate, or lie down on the floor to make it look good...

x2x wrote:I just watched it again and it looked to me that Martin was off the floor and halfway up but not fully erect at the count of ten. How exactly is the ten count rule worded? The ref should havesome leeway in this and the leeway should not be towards prematurely stopping a fight where both men can continue.

He should be fully erect. I prefer if they continue in this situations, but Martin both times took it to the limit, he was not too keen to continue.

Tarkus wrote:

Rexob wrote:

crusader wrote:AJ is an offensive juggrrnaut. Admiittedly he hasn't defeated a top opponent, but I can't see many people coping with his attack and he'll probably just get better.

It may be a case of having to take him out beforr he can land something meaningful.

I disagree the best way would be nullify his offense and take him into deep waters then drowned him late on. Only one person is going to do that and his name = Tyson Fury!

I think both strategies have their merits depending on who he fights. Haye could take out Joshua early, Fury could outbox him. Either way it wont be easy task for anyone. Oh and there is one fighter who probably can do both, Luis Ortiz.

I love how people talk about haye as if he should even factor in to anything. Outside of his mouth he really has not done much of anything in many years. He had a shot vcs. Wlad and fought like a bitch. Haye would lose to both Fury and Joshua.

Lancenix wrote:

Tarkus wrote:

Rexob wrote:

I disagree the best way would be nullify his offense and take him into deep waters then drowned him late on. Only one person is going to do that and his name = Tyson Fury!

I think both strategies have their merits depending on who he fights. Haye could take out Joshua early, Fury could outbox him. Either way it wont be easy task for anyone. Oh and there is one fighter who probably can do both, Luis Ortiz.

I love how people talk about haye as if he should even factor in to anything. Outside of his mouth he really has not done much of anything in many years. He had a shot vcs. Wlad and fought like a bitch. Haye would lose to both Fury and Joshua.

Joshua got catched badly by fat Whyte. David Haye is on another level even if he was inactive.

Tarkus wrote:

x2x wrote:I just watched it again and it looked to me that Martin was off the floor and halfway up but not fully erect at the count of ten. How exactly is the ten count rule worded? The ref should havesome leeway in this and the leeway should not be towards prematurely stopping a fight where both men can continue.

He should be fully erect. I prefer if they continue in this situations, but Martin both times took it to the limit, he was not too keen to continue.

Does it actually say "fully erect" someplace?

Lancenix wrote: I love how people talk about haye as if he should even factor in to anything. Outside of his mouth he really has not done much of anything in many years. He had a shot vcs. Wlad and fought like a bitch. Haye would lose to both Fury and Joshua.

I now you hate him with passion but fact is undeniable, Haye is very dangerous for anyone, especially to a novice kid.

Lancenix wrote:

conty22 wrote:

Lancenix wrote:
Fury Joshua would be a chess match of styles and wills. Fury can be touched up with looping punches. Cunningham proved that and if Joshua would land that kind of shot it would be lights out!! But Fury is not easy to plan against. It would be interesting.

Who the eff has Joshua fought? Martin is a total bum. Go watch him against Zumbabo Love. Martin is even worse than Gavern or Firtha rofl.

Wilder was also knocking those bums with one shots and even more brutaly. How you can even effing compare novice boxer Joshua against Fury rofl?

Your analysis was based on fight against Martin who is a total bum? Pls. Martin is not even top 50

Fury was knocked on his ass badly by Cunningham. What happens if Joshua lands a looping shot?? You act like Joshua would have no shot in that fight. Fury was also down against some eastern Euro earlier in his career. Joshua would be dangerous to win against anyone in the world. You are just hating on Joshua. You cannot say for sure that joshua cannot win that fight. Quit being silly.

Yeah but he's more mature, and with Peter in hisconer no way would he fight like that. Anyway Joshua is better with compact hooks and Straight punches, he doesn't do swings as much.

x2x wrote:I just watched it again and it looked to me that Martin was off the floor and halfway up but not fully erect at the count of ten. How exactly is the ten count rule worded? The ref should havesome leeway in this and the leeway should not be towards prematurely stopping a fight where both men can continue.

When the ref said ten it looked like his glove was on the canvas to me. Even on the first knockdown martin was given the benefit of the doubt as he waited so long he was almost counted out and could have been. He took way too long getting up. Not the refs fault at all here.

x2x wrote:

Tarkus wrote:

x2x wrote:I just watched it again and it looked to me that Martin was off the floor and halfway up but not fully erect at the count of ten. How exactly is the ten count rule worded? The ref should havesome leeway in this and the leeway should not be towards prematurely stopping a fight where both men can continue.

He should be fully erect. I prefer if they continue in this situations, but Martin both times took it to the limit, he was not too keen to continue.

Does it actually say "fully erect" someplace?

Yes, thats how I remember but don't ask me to back it up with the proof.

Joseph Parker UD Joshua. Joshua is more powerfull but Joseph is 3x faster . Parker beats AJ

Tarkus wrote:

Lancenix wrote: I love how people talk about haye as if he should even factor in to anything. Outside of his mouth he really has not done much of anything in many years. He had a shot vcs. Wlad and fought like a bitch. Haye would lose to both Fury and Joshua.

I now you hate him with passion but fact is undeniable, Haye is very dangerous for anyone, especially to a novice kid.

Here is my point trakus. Shouldn't a man earn his way to a title shot? What has haye done to earn his way to a title shot? He is fighting Briggs next after this bum he is fighting. And he wants to be taken seriously. And I am just pointing out the fact that he lost to Wlad 12-0 and fell on the floor 39 times. In fact his knockdown in that fight when he fell down for the 80th time is one of my favorite knockdowns of all time. Hernandez the referee got right in haye's ugly face and stated counting one two three so fast he was ready to count that coward out right there. LOL That was great.

Lancenix wrote: When the ref said ten it looked like his glove was on the canvas to me. Even on the first knockdown martin was given the benefit of the doubt as he waited so long he was almost counted out and could have been. He took way too long getting up. Not the refs fault at all here.

The call was very close either way - and I'm no Martin fan so that's all from me on this. Martin was the silliest "heavyweight champ" ever winning his championship without landing a punch and then losing it ASAP.

x2x wrote:

Lancenix wrote: When the ref said ten it looked like his glove was on the canvas to me. Even on the first knockdown martin was given the benefit of the doubt as he waited so long he was almost counted out and could have been. He took way too long getting up. Not the refs fault at all here.

The call was very close either way - and I'm no Martin fan so that's all from me on this. Martin was the silliest "heavyweight champ" ever winning his championship without landing a punch and then losing it ASAP.

I hear ya. It was close. If I am the ref I would be inclined to let it go on but the end was very near.

Lancenix wrote:

Tarkus wrote:

Lancenix wrote: I love how people talk about haye as if he should even factor in to anything. Outside of his mouth he really has not done much of anything in many years. He had a shot vcs. Wlad and fought like a bitch. Haye would lose to both Fury and Joshua.

I now you hate him with passion but fact is undeniable, Haye is very dangerous for anyone, especially to a novice kid.

Here is my point trakus. Shouldn't a man earn his way to a title shot? What has haye done to earn his way to a title shot? He is fighting Briggs next after this bum he is fighting. And he wants to be taken seriously. And I am just pointing out the fact that he lost to Wlad 12-0 and fell on the floor 39 times. In fact his knockdown in that fight when he fell down for the 80th time is one of my favorite knockdowns of all time. Hernandez the referee got right in haye's ugly face and stated counting one two three so fast he was ready to count that coward out right there. LOL That was great.

BitPlayer wrote:Looked a little premature to me, but by a fairly normal amount, you don't leave it that late to get up. Get up by 8.

crusader wrote:A fighter's ability isn't determined by their resume. AJ hasn't beaten anyone like Fury, just like Fury hadn't beaten anyone like Wlad, but I think he has the tools to.

Ok, talk me through what he has shown that could keep him range of Fury? That's the big thing he has to show, he's shown neither the upper nor lower body movement to win, to my knowledge. He may have it and just not shown it, but just having faith isn't particularly convincing. Everything Fury used agains Wlad hehad shown already, to an extent.

Fury hasn't shown me skills and mobility to an extent that I can't see how AJ could deal with them. AJ is far more aggresive and willing to take chances than Wlad and I think he would be more likely to attack, unsettle, and catch Fury. I also don't think AJ's offense relies as much on opponent being set as Wlad's does, and I believe he would be more likely to respond to Fury's jabs with his own offense and thus make Fury more reluctant to throw them.

Now Fury does have good mobility for such a big guy and may be the best suited to outbox Joshua, but I think that Wlad's natural passivity and basic offense slightly flattered Fury's boxing skills. Fury had never fought anyone like Wlad prior to beating him and I don't really think it's a stretch to pick AJ over Fury.

Tarkus wrote:

x2x wrote:

Tarkus wrote: He should be fully erect. I prefer if they continue in this situations, but Martin both times took it to the limit, he was not too keen to continue.

Does it actually say "fully erect" someplace?

Yes, thats how I remember but don't ask me to back it up with the proof.

There is no official rule book in boxing. I have asked this question to Teddy Atlas twice. The first time he told me it was a good point. The second time he told me that I should get to work on it in my free time. So it is kind of viewed as a joke that there is nothing concrete about this.

Why are people debating the count? Martin offered nothing, was clearly out of his depth, and was only ever going to soak up more punishment. No controversy Imo.

Lancenix wrote:

x2x wrote:I just watched it again and it looked to me that Martin was off the floor and halfway up but not fully erect at the count of ten. How exactly is the ten count rule worded? The ref should havesome leeway in this and the leeway should not be towards prematurely stopping a fight where both men can continue.

When the ref said ten it looked like his glove was on the canvas to me. Even on the first knockdown martin was given the benefit of the doubt as he waited so long he was almost counted out and could have been. He took way too long getting up. Not the refs fault at all here.

There are rule books. For example rulebook of British Board says:

"Boxer shall be considered to be down until he has regained his feet within the boxing ring and is in a position and a condition to defend himself."

"He must regain his feet unassisted within ten seconds. The Referee shall not permit a Boxer to continue boxing, if in his opinion he is able to do so, until the expiration of 8 seconds following the knock down."

The ref just saved Martin from having to accept one or two more clean shots to the head from a large, powerful man who knows how to punch.

Early stoppage?
If you felt like the outcome was in doubt and Martin needed to get knocked down a few more times then I guess it was early but for me the ref did a good job.