Savarese stops Witherspoon in the 5th round of a non title fight, Witherspoon had a good 1st , caught the upright Savarese with a couple overhand rights but Savarese settled into things, worked the jab, worked the body, put his shots together well and busted Witherspoon up
Witherspoon was actually having a decent 5th but Savarese dropped him with a chopping right to top of head, Witherspoon got up but Savarese backed him on the ropes and was unloading both hands when the ref jumped in, maybe a bit premature, Witherspoon was making him miss with most but, 44 year old and not throwing back, no real complaints
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 01 Aug 2021, 11:40
by hhaehre
handsofstone wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 02:59
Are people on crack in the Boxing History forum? Klompton just waffled a load of nonsense about how bad Nielsen was as a fighter,, rightly or wrongly, totally irrelevant about the actual fight with Witherspoon
Again as I mentioned above, why would Witherspoon go down 4 times when he took a "dive"
He didn't actually go down hard, basically took a knee 4 times. What makes it fishy imo is that Nielsen couldn't punch at all, just an arm puncher and Witherspoon hardly threw a punch. I definitely wouldn't put it past Palle to fix a fight.
handsofstone wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 02:59
Are people on crack in the Boxing History forum? Klompton just waffled a load of nonsense about how bad Nielsen was as a fighter,, rightly or wrongly, totally irrelevant about the actual fight with Witherspoon
Again as I mentioned above, why would Witherspoon go down 4 times when he took a "dive"
He didn't actually go down hard, basically took a knee 4 times. What makes it fishy imo is that Nielsen couldn't punch at all, just an arm puncher and Witherspoon hardly threw a punch. I definitely wouldn't put it past Palle to fix a fight.
I've only ever watched the fight once and never had an idea anyone would think this was a dive, I've been watching loads of Witherspoon lately so know exactly how durable he was even in his later years but Nielsen was hitting him clean early, fought at a ferocious pace and done a better number on Witherspoon than just about anyone if we're being honest, nobody put a beating on him like that, I know Nielsen's limitations as much as anyone but in this fight he had Witherspoon's number, 1st knockdown, great right to body, 2nd was a good right to head and the last 2 were accumulation, the last one particular he was battered down when it was stopped with 1 or 2 to back of head
A regular run of the mill one sided beatdown from what I seen
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 01 Aug 2021, 13:18
by handsofstone
Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 12:57
The Neilson-Witherspoon fight is on Youtube. Anyone can check it out for themselves. I really don't know what to make of it. Neilson was not a first rate power puncher, not even close. To me, there's just something strange about the idea of Neilson stopping the durable, savvy Witherspoon.
Another fight that some believe was fixed is Neilson's KO over Tony Tubbs. That fight's on Youtube too. My gut reaction to this bout is similar to my qualms about the Neilson-Witherspoon match.
It's well known that the continental promoters pay foreign fighters to take dives. That's been going on in Europe for decades (at least). I don't find it hard to believe that Mogens Palle fixed many of its fights. No surprise there.
Concerning the possibility of a fix, the only sticking point (in my mind) is that Witherspoon and Tubbs were still fairly big name fighters when they met Neilson. I've never heard of boxers that prominent taking bribes in order to fake a KO loss. Fixed fights usually involve journeymen losers who don't really have any kind of name recognition in the sport.
But to repeat myself: Neilson was no major puncher, and the idea of him flooring, dominating and stopping the likes of Witherspoon and Tubbs stretches credulity.
It's really not that uncommon for non punchers to put away durable guys, especially in the fashion Nielsen did, no drama from Witherspoon just genuinely pounded in defeat, the reason Witherspoon never got stopped much is because he was as crafty a heavyweight you'll find and never took sustained punishment, Nielsen landed early and often, he never let up and gave Witherspoon the chance to fiddle his way around,
Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑01 Aug 2021, 12:57
The Neilson-Witherspoon fight is on Youtube. Anyone can check it out for themselves. I really don't know what to make of it. Neilson was not a first rate power puncher, not even close. To me, there's just something strange about the idea of Neilson stopping the durable, savvy Witherspoon.
Another fight that some believe was fixed is Neilson's KO over Tony Tubbs. That fight's on Youtube too. My gut reaction to this bout is similar to my qualms about the Neilson-Witherspoon match.
It's well known that the continental promoters pay foreign fighters to take dives. That's been going on in Europe for decades (at least). I don't find it hard to believe that Mogens Palle fixed many of its fights. No surprise there.
Concerning the possibility of a fix, the only sticking point (in my mind) is that Witherspoon and Tubbs were still fairly big name fighters when they met Neilson. I've never heard of boxers that prominent taking bribes in order to fake a KO loss. Fixed fights usually involve journeymen losers who don't really have any kind of name recognition in the sport.
But to repeat myself: Neilson was no major puncher, and the idea of him flooring, dominating and stopping the likes of Witherspoon and Tubbs stretches credulity.
It's really not that uncommon for non punchers to put away durable guys, especially in the fashion Nielsen did, no drama from Witherspoon just genuinely pounded in defeat, the reason Witherspoon never got stopped much is because he was as crafty a heavyweight you'll find and never took sustained punishment, Nielsen landed early and often, he never let up and gave Witherspoon the chance to fiddle his way around,
Let me ask you a question. How many of Neilson's earlier fights were on the level, as opposed to how many were fakes? Forget about Witherspoon and Tubbs. I'm talking about Neilson's first 35 or 40 bouts...how often those were fixed fights.
I'm curious as to what your answer will be.
Before the Witherspoon fight, the only time I've seen Nielsen fight is Holmes, Tyson and Holyfield, I know next to nothing about his career, I'm judging this fight alone on the eye test, no narratives or conspiracies
Looking through Nielsen's record to say it's padded is an understatement
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 03 Aug 2021, 14:56
by handsofstone
Ronald "Winky" Wright vs Ensley Bingham
Wright schools Bingham over 12 to retain his World Super Welterweight title, a domination from first bell to last, Wright led with the southpaw jab, countered the come forward Bingham with it, shot out the straight left and controlled him with his feet as much as his hands, Bingham couldn't get near, chasing shadows and punching air, by the later rounds Bingham was busted up and Wright was sitting down on his shots, Bingham bravely made it to the end but he was schooled
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 04 Aug 2021, 03:16
by handsofstone
Ronald "Winky" Wright vs Adrian Dodson
Wright stops Dodson after 6 rounds to retain his World Super Welterweight title, Dodson stopped on his stool with swollen shut eyes, commendable effort from Dodson took the fight to fellow southpaw Wright, stood in the pocket with him and traded especially to the body, Wright was a level above though, jabbed Dodson repeatedly, sunk in shots to the body and took Dodson apart, he was a mess by the end and no suprise to see him pulled after the 6th
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 05 Aug 2021, 03:32
by handsofstone
Ronald "Winky" Wright vs Sam Soliman
Wright beats Soliman by UD in a non title Middleweight fight, deserved win for Wright but Soliman was an absolute pest, herky jerky, unorthodox and threw over 1200 punches, wasn't that effective but made a nuisance of himself and never allowed Wright to get into a groove, Wright couldn't really establish the jab but was able to land the straight left and right hook, it wasn't always pretty but the quality always lay with Wright, think he stunned Soliman a few times but he always came back throwing, gruelling fight but Wright rightful winner
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 05 Aug 2021, 03:40
by margaret thatcher
when spoon gets stopped, well he threw the fight
when he loses, well he was off his game
well, he just wasnt motivated, or he was just unhappy with his promoter
a lot of excuses made for him
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 06 Aug 2021, 01:24
by margaret thatcher
past prime former contender/titilist, in the process of a 5 fight losing streak, gets brought in as an opponent for a nearly decade younger fighter he could've whooped in his prime...........we see guys like tim take beatings all the time in situations like that. and tim was actually giving it a go in the fight, he just didnt have it any more. is this scenario new to people?
people make so many excuses for the guy..........any loss, and it's pretty much 'it was an off night/he threw the fight'
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 06 Aug 2021, 01:29
by margaret thatcher
Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑05 Aug 2021, 18:15
One aspect of the Witherspoon-Neilson fight that raises suspicions is the venue: it took place in Denmark. Therefore we don't know if this one even passes the smell test.
ya only fights in the usa are legit
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 06 Aug 2021, 02:52
by handsofstone
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑06 Aug 2021, 01:24
past prime former contender/titilist, in the process of a 5 fight losing streak, gets brought in as an opponent for a nearly decade younger fighter he could've whooped in his prime...........we see guys like tim take beatings all the time in situations like that. and tim was actually giving it a go in the fight, he just didnt have it any more. is this scenario new to people?
people make so many excuses for the guy..........any loss, and it's pretty much 'it was an off night/he threw the fight'
Some sanity
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 06 Aug 2021, 03:16
by handsofstone
Carlos Zarate vs Alfonso Zamora
Zarate KOs Zamora in the 4th round of a non title fight, both were World Bantamweight champs but no idea why belts weren't on line, first couple rounds were a toe to toe war as you'd expect between two Mexican bangers but at end of 3rd Zarate dropped Zamora with a right hand, Zamora got up but at start of 4th another right had Zamora down again, he got up and tried to fight his way out of trouble but Zarate nailed him with a big left hook which knocked him out
Seconds into fight some hombre with pants and vest stormed the ring and was dragged away by police, presumably for a good hiding
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 06 Aug 2021, 14:27
by oogiebe
handsofstone wrote: ↑06 Aug 2021, 03:16
Carlos Zarate vs Alfonso Zamora
Zarate KOs Zamora in the 4th round of a non title fight, both were World Bantamweight champs but no idea why belts weren't on line, first couple rounds were a toe to toe war as you'd expect between two Mexican bangers but at end of 3rd Zarate dropped Zamora with a right hand, Zamora got up but at start of 4th another right had Zamora down again, he got up and tried to fight his way out of trouble but Zarate nailed him with a big left hook which knocked him out
Seconds into fight some hombre with pants and vest stormed the ring and was dragged away by police, presumably for a good hiding
handsofstone wrote: ↑06 Aug 2021, 03:16
Carlos Zarate vs Alfonso Zamora
Zarate KOs Zamora in the 4th round of a non title fight, both were World Bantamweight champs but no idea why belts weren't on line, first couple rounds were a toe to toe war as you'd expect between two Mexican bangers but at end of 3rd Zarate dropped Zamora with a right hand, Zamora got up but at start of 4th another right had Zamora down again, he got up and tried to fight his way out of trouble but Zarate nailed him with a big left hook which knocked him out
Seconds into fight some hombre with pants and vest stormed the ring and was dragged away by police, presumably for a good hiding
Recently rewatched this one. One of my favs.
Any idea why it wasn't a unification??, Zarate was WBC champ and Zamora was WBA, it was only scheduled for 10
handsofstone wrote: ↑06 Aug 2021, 03:16
Carlos Zarate vs Alfonso Zamora
Zarate KOs Zamora in the 4th round of a non title fight, both were World Bantamweight champs but no idea why belts weren't on line, first couple rounds were a toe to toe war as you'd expect between two Mexican bangers but at end of 3rd Zarate dropped Zamora with a right hand, Zamora got up but at start of 4th another right had Zamora down again, he got up and tried to fight his way out of trouble but Zarate nailed him with a big left hook which knocked him out
Seconds into fight some hombre with pants and vest stormed the ring and was dragged away by police, presumably for a good hiding
Recently rewatched this one. One of my favs.
Any idea why it wasn't a unification??, Zarate was WBC champ and Zamora was WBA, it was only scheduled for 10
Never knew why, but yet he lost his subsequent fight and title to Lujan. I loved Zamora after watching him ko'ing Hong in 4 and then 12 (?) was thrilled to see him on UHF from the forum only to be shocked when he was dominated by Zarate. I was just a kid.
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 07 Aug 2021, 06:17
by bennie
Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑07 Aug 2021, 01:46
Today I watched John Conteh defend his WBC light heavyweight title against Lonnie Bennett. Fascinating fight. Occurred in 1975, in London.
Conteh really blew it when he decided to go it alone after this first defence of his WBC title. His career stalled and he was ultimately stripped of his world title. What a waste of talent.
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 07 Aug 2021, 17:14
by 548273
Conteh was a terrific fighter.
As previous posters have mentioned, he took bad advice which ultimately ruined his career.
handsofstone wrote: ↑06 Aug 2021, 03:16
Carlos Zarate vs Alfonso Zamora
Zarate KOs Zamora in the 4th round of a non title fight, both were World Bantamweight champs but no idea why belts weren't on line, first couple rounds were a toe to toe war as you'd expect between two Mexican bangers but at end of 3rd Zarate dropped Zamora with a right hand, Zamora got up but at start of 4th another right had Zamora down again, he got up and tried to fight his way out of trouble but Zarate nailed him with a big left hook which knocked him out
Seconds into fight some hombre with pants and vest stormed the ring and was dragged away by police, presumably for a good hiding
Recently rewatched this one. One of my favs.
Any idea why it wasn't a unification??, Zarate was WBC champ and Zamora was WBA, it was only scheduled for 10
It was quite hard to make WBA / WBC unification bouts in those days in the lighter divisions for several reasons. Politics of the two essentially corrupt governing bodies was the main reason but also the fighters themselves were often happy to be 'champs' of half the world. Mind you, nowadays it seems some are happy to be champs of 1/8th of the world.
Bennie might know the exact excuses the WBA and/or WBC trotted out at the time as to why they 'believed' it was not in the best interests of their organisation to sanction the fight as being for their title.
Anyway to get around this and to make this natural fight happen the promoters made it a non-title affair which solved the problem with the governing bodies. The purse of $125,000 EACH was not the sort of money the fighters could turn down especially as even if they lost they would still hold a relatively lucrative belt.
Personally, I don't think the distance detracted from the fight. 10 rounds was plenty of time to resolve this one.
oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Aug 2021, 14:27
Recently rewatched this one. One of my favs.
Any idea why it wasn't a unification??, Zarate was WBC champ and Zamora was WBA, it was only scheduled for 10
It was quite hard to make WBA / WBC unification bouts in those days in the lighter divisions for several reasons. Politics of the two essentially corrupt governing bodies was the main reason but also the fighters themselves were often happy to be 'champs' of half the world. Mind you, nowadays it seems some are happy to be champs of 1/8th of the world.
Bennie might know the exact excuses the WBA and/or WBC trotted out at the time as to why they 'believed' it was not in the best interests of their organisation to sanction the fight as being for their title.
Anyway to get around this and to make this natural fight happen the promoters made it a non-title affair which solved the problem with the governing bodies. The purse of $125,000 EACH was not the sort of money the fighters could turn down especially as even if they lost they would still hold a relatively lucrative belt.
Personally, I don't think the distance detracted from the fight. 10 rounds was plenty of time to resolve this one.
handsofstone wrote: ↑06 Aug 2021, 14:42
Any idea why it wasn't a unification??, Zarate was WBC champ and Zamora was WBA, it was only scheduled for 10
It wasn't a unification because neither alphabet organization wanted to put their share of the bantamweight title at risk. Back in those days the WBA and WBC champs very rarely fought each other.
I'm guessing that the only reason Zamora and Zarate even fought is because there was tremendous public interest in seeing the bout. So, for the alphabets, the rational solution was to approve of this one as a non-title fight, and to reap their share of the profits.
Agree totally with all you say Joe. Only thing I would add is that the public interest was strong enough to ensure a good gate and also good TV money which meant the fighters were offered very good money to sign up for the fight which usually gets a professional prize fighters attention. Bragging rights would have been a lovely potential bonus too.
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 08 Aug 2021, 08:45
by handsofstone
Daniel Zaragoza vs Carlos Zarate
Zaragoza stops Zarate in the 10th to win vacant World Super Bantamweight title, too young and fresh for the aging Zarate, also the southpaw style caused him a lot of problems, Zaragoza boxed in and out, plenty lateral movement, pinging Zarate's head back and keeping him chasing, Zarate looked like his experience was finding a way into things after a few rounds, he started landing that long raking jab and straight right but Zaragoza soon took it away again and piled up points
By the 8th Zaragoza was taking Zarate apart and in the 10th caught Zarate with a monster left which had him looking out on his feet momentarily and the ref jumped in before Zaragoza could follow up, a tad early maybe but he saved Zarate from a bad KO surely
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 08 Aug 2021, 09:23
by DrDuke
Lennox Lewis vs Tyrell Biggs
Actually, both their fights.
The first one took place at the 1984 Olympics. Biggs was a great amateur and was in his prime then. Lewis wasn't that Lewis, whom everybody know today, he was just a youngster. Biggs moved well, his hands were fast, he outboxed Lewis confidently.
The second bout took place 7 years later. Lewis was a rising prospect, Biggs was a shabby wasted talent. Lewis was quite aggressive, Biggs wasn't trying to box and move, he attempted to fight back. This fight lasted the same 3 rounds, but even a bit less. Lewis knocked Biggs down hard closer to the end of the last round, Biggs got up to receive a couple of more knockdowns and to be stopped.
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 11 Aug 2021, 15:54
by DrDuke
Lennox Lewis vs Andrew Golota
It was impressive, that Lewis steamrolled Golota that fast, after Golota had sent Riddick Bowe to the retirement. After the first minute of the 1st round, during the feeling out process Lewis threw a double jab - right hand combo, which hurt Golota and backed him to a corner. Golota covered up, but looked bothered. Lewis' barrage of punches easily broke Golota's defence, Andrew was down hard. Golota stood up with a simply astonished look in the eyes. Lewis provided another barrage, Golota was down and waved.
Re: Classic fights I've watched recently
Posted: 12 Aug 2021, 05:10
by DrDuke
Lennox Lewis vs Donovan Ruddock
A thunderously short and intense fight. Ruddock pressed forward without much punches and it looked like he was searching for an opportunity to land his money punch as soon as possible. Lewis controlled the fight from the range with good movement and sharp, but economical punches. At the end of the 1st round Ruddock bent down with a lazy left hand to the body, Lewis immediately countered with a perfect 1-2 combo to Ruddock's head with a downward trajectory. Ruddock went down hard, but got up. Probably Donovan was saved by the bell then. Yet Lennox got the job done early in the 2nd round, he started aggressively, put Ruddock down twice more to finish this bout.
Some sanity
