BoxRec

WBC doesn't want rematch . . .

WBC President Jose Sulaiman stated Sunday that while a rematch between WBC light-heavyweight champion Jean Pascal and Bernard Hopkins would be good for boxing, he personally was not going to order it. “It’s not up to me to order a rematch,” said the President Sunday from Quebec City. “That would be up to the WBC council.” Sulaiman seemed dismayed that remarks made privately were turned around so quickly to make a case for Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer to say he would “use our vast financial resources to sue the WBC and the Canadian Commission,” should an immediate rematch not be forthcoming. “It was a private conversation,” said Sulaiman of his words immediately after the fight, “I said though that for clarity, a rematch would be good and that I don’t think either boxer right now is satisfied…..It was a great fight, a possibility for fight of the year; I don’t want to spoil such a great event with controversy.”

Panzerfaust wrote:Great photos as always Charlie

Rick Farris wrote:WBC doesn't want rematch . . .

WBC President Jose Sulaiman stated Sunday that while a rematch between WBC light-heavyweight champion Jean Pascal and Bernard Hopkins would be good for boxing, he personally was not going to order it. “It’s not up to me to order a rematch,” said the President Sunday from Quebec City. “That would be up to the WBC council.” Sulaiman seemed dismayed that remarks made privately were turned around so quickly to make a case for Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer to say he would “use our vast financial resources to sue the WBC and the Canadian Commission,” should an immediate rematch not be forthcoming. “It was a private conversation,” said Sulaiman of his words immediately after the fight, “I said though that for clarity, a rematch would be good and that I don’t think either boxer right now is satisfied…..It was a great fight, a possibility for fight of the year; I don’t want to spoil such a great event with controversy.”

I would think that Pascal would not want a rematch and avoid it. He has everything to lose and nothing to gain by a rematch-though it would be an exciting fight for the world to see.
Hopkins on the other hand, has everything to gain on this. He is at the end of his rope (some think otherwise) but he could become the oldest champ ever (kudos to Foreman) and if he lost walk with another million gate in his pocket. If I was Pascal, Hopkins is too dangerous, time to move on to another top contender.

Rick Farris wrote:

Panzerfaust wrote:Great photos as always Charlie

Thank you both. My wife got a new computer for Christmas that can take High Def SD cards. Once I can figure out how to download the crisp clear photos from it onto web pages, we will all benefit from it.

CNorkusJr wrote:Danny Giovanelli and me, who recalled his fights with Joe Miceli and Art Aragon for me at our table.

Legion Stadium, Hollywood, California, United States

March 27,1956

Art Aragon W Danny Giovanelli KO 9 10

Candy Lopez W Benny Coca TKO 1 6

Renato Munoz W Jim Blair KO 2 4

Ray DeLeon W Dickie Sanchez KO 4 4

Tommy Carlin L Jeff Palma PTS 4 4

I was at the Legion for Aragon/Giovanelli, it was good fight for Art. Tommy Carlin who fought on the card was a bartender at my fav watering hole, Bradly's, on Whittier Blvd, E.L.A.

Thanks Frank

When he mentioned he fought Art Aragon, I asked him if it was in Olympic Auditorium. He looked a little bewildered and said "possibly". He then said it was in Hollywood, but didnt mention the Legion.
Danny said that Art was a tough guy to beat. Fast hand speed was over Danny's power.He said that Art hurt him in one of the later rounds. Danny said he was just plain wore out by 9th Rd. He asked Art for rematch but nothing doing. He asked me if Art was still alive. I told him he passed recently, but I heard (from Rick here) that his son is in the Hollywood film business as a technician. He smiled and said that Hollywood was in their blood and was no surprise. (In a very kind way he said it).

CNorkusJr wrote:Thanks Frank

When he mentioned he fought Art Aragon, I asked him if it was in Olympic Auditorium. He looked a little bewildered and said "possibly". He then said it was in Hollywood, but didnt mention the Legion.
Danny said that Art was a tough guy to beat. Fast hand speed was over Danny's power.He said that Art hurt him in one of the later rounds. Danny said he was just plain wore out by 9th Rd. He asked Art for rematch but nothing doing. He asked me if Art was still alive. I told him he passed recently, but I heard (from Rick here) that his son is in the Hollywood film business as a technician. He smiled and said that Hollywood was in their blood and was no surprise. (In a very kind way he said it).

I believe that this was one of Hap's last promotions at the Legion?
Don Fraser was the PR man.
Maybe Don has some memories of the match? I'll E-mail Hap, too.

CNorkusJr wrote:Thanks Frank

When he mentioned he fought Art Aragon, I asked him if it was in Olympic Auditorium. He looked a little bewildered and said "possibly". He then said it was in Hollywood, but didnt mention the Legion.
Danny said that Art was a tough guy to beat. Fast hand speed was over Danny's power.He said that Art hurt him in one of the later rounds. Danny said he was just plain wore out by 9th Rd. He asked Art for rematch but nothing doing. He asked me if Art was still alive. I told him he passed recently, but I heard (from Rick here) that his son is in the Hollywood film business as a technician. He smiled and said that Hollywood was in their blood and was no surprise. (In a very kind way he said it).

Charlie . . . Art's son Audie is working with me on Spider Man-4. I get a different perspective of boxing history discussing boxing with Art's son, just as we do from you. Although Audie never had any desire to box, he was very close with his father and his mother, Georgia, as well. I recently learned while talking with Audie was that his mom used to work as a teller in a bank downtown, and that Don Fraser was also working in the bank as a teller. Of course, Art passed a couple years ago, but his ex-wife is still alive. I told Audie that Fraser said that his mother was a beautiful woman. "She still is" Audie smiled.

Hollywood Citizen News/Valley Times Collection

Mrs. Georgina Aragon, 30, right, wears mysterious expression as her husband, welterweight boxer Art Aragon, 31, enters Van Nuys court with his girl friend Barbara Shey, 20. Aragon gained dismissal of assault charges by ex-wife who said he tried to run her down with car. Miss Shey, red-headed Reseda dance instructor, was with Aragon during fracas. Photo dated: July 22, 1959.

Danny Giovanelli . . .

Talked to Don Fraser about the 1956 match between Art Aragon & Danny Giovanelli.
At the time, Fraser was the Hollywood Legion's PR man he remembered when promoter Jackie Leonard made the fight.
Don's recollection of the bout was not clear, only that he remembered The Golden Boy winning by TKO.
Don did point out that in 1956, Art Aragon was at the top his game.

I wasn't sure if Hap Navarro was still involved with the Legion, and inquired about the bout thru e-mail.
This was Hap's response:

"That bout took place after I had resigned and pushed my assistant, Jack Leonard into my old job. It was he who made the match and Don Fraser was the publicity man at the time for Hollywood Legion. Don could fill you in on details of the match. We are all fine, Rick, planning to get together on Christmas Day in Santa Maria." -Hap Navarro

Thanks Rick & Frank on showing Art on two sides of the coin.

Audie's mom was and probably still a beautiful woman by the looks of the picture.
Art, I read was a popular figure with the woman, but then again many boxers back then had alot of woman around them. I'm sure Hollywood Press was all-over that
story unfortunately and its a good thing Mrs. Aragon lived to tell about it.
I am sure Audie finds it tough to talk about.
I think Audie would agree with me that as sons of former fighters, especially those who got a little fame associated with their names (Art of course was a huge star), we got a very unique perspective of the sports man life. I think Frank can relate to that this too .

I think we can see where the hype is, the media play, and how it separates from what is at home. Combined by what our fathers tell us of behind the scenes and asking pertinant questions, we sons got a unique view of the sport.
I mentioned this in passing to Marvis Frazier the other day. Talk about a timely subject. Marvis talked to me how he sees his father under the gun by the press(he added not as much as it was when his dad was boxing though)
and how he comes to stay cool and collect about it. Marvis is unique because he is a son who had to live up to the Frazier name and the pressures that were on him when he decided to box. Marvis certainly made a good accounting for himself-earning a title shot on his own merit. Audie and I never faced that , my words "Thank God".

Even if he became champ, the pressure would shift to "Who was the better Frazier" and he said he "would go crazy with that in his face".Though he said "there should be no controversy there whats so ever. But the press would hype it- people are crazed with boxing comparisons".

People asked me if I ever boxed and I actually never had the desire. In hindsight it was a good decision. I joke" It took my dad 25 years to build up the Norkus boxing name- and it would take me just one fight to have it all come crashing down".
Today, like ever, I enjoy meeting the people who are and were in the sport along with the fans of course who remember the days.I consider myself a huge boxing fan. Many people remember my father and I enjoy their kind words immensely. I think Audie would agree,it made for a less stressful life, and an opportunity to concentrate on our own life and careers.

I for one never got a true read on my fathers feeling about me not even trying for the ring, I would be interested to know what Audie's take on that was with his dad.
I see Arthur Mercante Jr. quite often,(he lives just a few towns away) and I know Arthur Sr. absolutely did not want Arthur Jr with gloves on- but was thrilled to see him as a referee. Arthur Jr did fight a few amateur fights-and he said it helped him immensely in shaping up for a referees job.
Like anything, its a matter of personal taste.

Rick Farris wrote:Danny Giovanelli . . .

Talked to Don Fraser about the 1956 match between Art Aragon & Danny Giovanelli.
At the time, Fraser was the Hollywood Legion's PR man he remembered when promoter Jackie Leonard made the fight.
Don's recollection of the bout was not clear, only that he remembered The Golden Boy winning by TKO.
Don did point out that in 1956, Art Aragon was at the top his game.

I wasn't sure if Hap Navarro was still involved with the Legion, and inquired about the bout thru e-mail.
This was Hap's response:

"That bout took place after I had resigned and pushed my assistant, Jack Leonard into my old job. It was he who made the match and Don Fraser was the publicity man at the time for Hollywood Legion. Don could fill you in on details of the match. We are all fine, Rick, planning to get together on Christmas Day in Santa Maria." -Hap Navarro

Thanks Rick again for a giant effort to get some more of this story.
Hap Navarro & Don Fraser are certainly the right guys to talk to as they were both key players in LA & Hollywood Boxing (Is there a difference between LA & Hollywood Boxing besides actual mileage ?).( Are the names the same- mgrs,trainers, fighters)
Like Boston & New York -two huge cities separated by a short distance, with two very different boxing cultures, each big in its own right.
One thing I notice, as I talk to these great fighters and men from the 50's and earlier, its obvious that their recollections are less and less, foggier is the word.
Of course I realize their age and whatever possible head trauma they might have experienced as a fighter is the main reason for this, but it is getting harder to get for them to recall end results or opponents details.
For Mickey Mouse Sake, I'm 53 years old and I cant remember some guys names I worked with just 10 years ago, much less try to have one of these legends remember what round he hit a guy with a KO punch 50 yrs ago.
I would think Mr Navarro and Mr Fraser, who probably dealt with hundreds of fighters and 1,000's of matches, try to recall a non-title event at best is what info they gave you. I consider us Blessed that guys like these two men,and like Emile Griffith and Danny Giovanelli are still here to begin with. What ever they might remember is a gift.
Frank, I think you are sharp as a tack. I enjoy your keen rememberances immensely. After 73 years and counting, God Bless, have you ever put down on paper your Boxing Life and experiences, or considered it. I think what you witnessed in your life could probably fill volumes and have the interest of thousands to read it.We here already know you have the gift of good story-telling on paper (Computer). Your thoughts on this.

CNorkusJr wrote:Here are some pictures from Ring 8 Luncheon this past Sunday.12-19-2010

My brother-in-law Paul, with Vito Antuefermo. Vito is a regular at the meetings each month.



Myself and Burt Young



Partial Dais (L-R) Emile Griffith, Leon Spinks,Marvis Frazier, "Smokin" Joe Frazier



My brother in Law, Paul and Leon Spinks. I know you cant make it out here, but Leon's hat says "Leon Spinks 1978 or(79) World Champion

It's good to see Spinks looking sharp.

Leon is a great guy to be around. He has a very good sense of humor and when I met him last year at the AAIB Luncheon, where he was honored as a former Champion in Ring, and at this years' Ring 8 luncheon, he is very approachable and seems to take his fame with a grain of salt.Very humble. I said to him that "I respected you as a Champion" and without missing a beat replied back " All two minutes of it".
He lives in the midwest with his wife, but travels to various cities to make appearances if warranted. He said he doesn't see his brother Michael all that much but they are close and keep in contact by phone.
You gotta listen closely when he speaks because he sort of talks softly and he is usually brief in his comments. He peppers his short public speeches with funny adages and will get a standing ovation when he finishes.
He stayed until all those who wanted an autograph or picture were taken care of, and had a smile for all. (He must of signed a 1,000 items).
He seems to be in fine health with no physical problems that I can see.

CNorkusJr wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:Danny Giovanelli . . .

Talked to Don Fraser about the 1956 match between Art Aragon & Danny Giovanelli.
At the time, Fraser was the Hollywood Legion's PR man he remembered when promoter Jackie Leonard made the fight.
Don's recollection of the bout was not clear, only that he remembered The Golden Boy winning by TKO.
Don did point out that in 1956, Art Aragon was at the top his game.

I wasn't sure if Hap Navarro was still involved with the Legion, and inquired about the bout thru e-mail.
This was Hap's response:

"That bout took place after I had resigned and pushed my assistant, Jack Leonard into my old job. It was he who made the match and Don Fraser was the publicity man at the time for Hollywood Legion. Don could fill you in on details of the match. We are all fine, Rick, planning to get together on Christmas Day in Santa Maria." -Hap Navarro

Thanks Rick again for a giant effort to get some more of this story.
Hap Navarro & Don Fraser are certainly the right guys to talk to as they were both key players in LA & Hollywood Boxing (Is there a difference between LA & Hollywood Boxing besides actual mileage ?).( Are the names the same- mgrs,trainers, fighters)
Like Boston & New York -two huge cities separated by a short distance, with two very different boxing cultures, each big in its own right.
One thing I notice, as I talk to these great fighters and men from the 50's and earlier, its obvious that their recollections are less and less, foggier is the word.
Of course I realize their age and whatever possible head trauma they might have experienced as a fighter is the main reason for this, but it is getting harder to get for them to recall end results or opponents details.
For Mickey Mouse Sake, I'm 53 years old and I cant remember some guys names I worked with just 10 years ago, much less try to have one of these legends remember what round he hit a guy with a KO punch 50 yrs ago.
I would think Mr Navarro and Mr Fraser, who probably dealt with hundreds of fighters and 1,000's of matches, try to recall a non-title event at best is what info they gave you. I consider us Blessed that guys like these two men,and like Emile Griffith and Danny Giovanelli are still here to begin with. What ever they might remember is a gift.
Frank, I think you are sharp as a tack. I enjoy your keen rememberances immensely. After 73 years and counting, God Bless, have you ever put down on paper your Boxing Life and experiences, or considered it. I think what you witnessed in your life could probably fill volumes and have the interest of thousands to read it.We here already know you have the gift of good story-telling on paper (Computer). Your thoughts on this.

Thanks Charlie for your kind words, but I'm not "sharp as a tack". I wish my memory was as good as Rick's, Hap's and Don Fraser's, but truth be told, it is not, though Hap and Don have some years on me they have a better memory then I. As some of the guys here know I went through a bout with cancer and a treatment that left me with short and long term memory loss, I can't remember enough to write much of anything. The stories that I have written are fiction, though I use little bits of my life experience to write them, an I have to say its been fun writing them.

Frank I know you see Jesus Pimental at the CBOF functions, I was just reading some of my old boxing magazines, and they profiled his career in one I was reading last night,it talked about he had problems with Eileen Eaton and George Parnassus, and that was part of the reason he didn't get a title shot until he was over 30, do you know if the problems with Eaton and Parnassus were because of his manager.

I am sorry Frank. I did not know that you went through a bout of cancer. My apologies if I hit a nerve on that. I meant no ill will on that at all. If there was mention of that on posts, I must have come here later than that or missed it somewhere along the line.
Reading your posts here and seeing the pictures you put up with description, one would never suspect that you have memory loss at times. You are a good writer and I enjoy your stories and recollections greatly.
I think I speak for all, that with the seriousness of that condition might warrant, we are all glad your are writing here today.
Certainly a legend of California Boxing in my eyes, I am glad that I met you and other posters here in this room as it has enlightened me to so much history of this great sport.
Thank You my friend, and a Merry Christmas to the Baltazar Family.

CNorkusJr wrote:I am sorry Frank. I did not know that you went through a bout of cancer. My apologies if I hit a nerve on that. I meant no ill will on that at all. If there was mention of that on posts, I must have come here later than that or missed it somewhere along the line.
Reading your posts here and seeing the pictures you put up with description, one would never suspect that you have memory loss at times. You are a good writer and I enjoy your stories and recollections greatly.
I think I speak for all, that with the seriousness of that condition might warrant, we are all glad your are writing here today.
Certainly a legend of California Boxing in my eyes, I am glad that I met you and other posters here in this room as it has enlightened me to so much history of this great sport.
Thank You my friend, and a Merry Christmas to the Baltazar Family.

No problem Charlie, I didn't mean to imply anything negative on your part, just saying how things are with me but, hey! with or without cancer treatment, to remember all the fights that I seen in my life would be kind of hard, I do remember some fights that I seen, I remember who won, the hard part is remembering how they won....

THEHAMMER321 wrote:Frank I know you see Jesus Pimental at the CBOF functions, I was just reading some of my old boxing magazines, and they profiled his career in one I was reading last night,it talked about he had problems with Eileen Eaton and George Parnassus, and that was part of the reason he didn't get a title shot until he was over 30, do you know if the problems with Eaton and Parnassus were because of his manager.

Most people in the Los Angeles boxing community blame Harry Kabakoff for that, and I agree with that, I think Harry over protected Jessie. There were times when he could have gotten Jess a title fight but Harry would start yelling about the money and most people could see that that was his way of turning the fights down. By the way, Jackie mcCoy and I did just that when we were offered a title shot for Frankie against the great Alexis Arguello, we thought that Frankie at that point in 1979, I think it was in 1979, was not ready for AA, hell, he probably never would had been ready for AA, but any way we were offered 35k and we asked for 75k knowing that Don King would never go along with that, we lost on 35k, but I thing saved Frankie from an ass whipping, of course had AA not been the monster that he was we would had fought him for the 35k.

THEHAMMER321 wrote:Frank I know you see Jesus Pimental at the CBOF functions, I was just reading some of my old boxing magazines, and they profiled his career in one I was reading last night,it talked about he had problems with Eileen Eaton and George Parnassus, and that was part of the reason he didn't get a title shot until he was over 30, do you know if the problems with Eaton and Parnassus were because of his manager.

Why Pimentel never won a title . . .

Paul, one thing that must being noted with regard to the career of Jesus Pimentel is that he was scheduled to fight for the world bantamweight title on two occasions prior to his last bout, when he challenged Ruben Olivares. As Frank pointed out, It was not Eaton or Parnassus that got in the way of Jesus fighting for the title, it was his manager Harry Kabakoff. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that it was Kabakoff that prevented Jesus from winning the title. In 1967, the great Fighting Harada was struggling to make the 118lb. weight limit. Pimentel and Harada signed to fight in Tokyo. If there was ever a chance of Pimentel beating Harada for the title it was on this night. A few days before the match, Kabakoff attempts to pressure the Japanese promoter for more money. This wasn't the first time. Kabakoff had done the same thing in San Antonio, Texas a couple years earlier. He made last minutes demands of a promoter who was going to stage a title fight between Pimentel and Eder Jofre. The promoter cancelled the fight. The Japanese promoter tried to save his show when Kabakoff walked out and found a willing challenger on three days notice, Lionel Rose. Rose was a good bantam but not the best in the division. Harada had suffered so much making weight, he entered the bout weak and was out boxed, even floored by the light hitting Rose en route to losing his title. Pimentel may not have beaten a sharp Harada (?), but on this night he would have likely beaten the dehydrated champ. Rose became champ and Jesus was left out in the cold. A few years later, Pimentel signed to fight Olivares for the title. Fearing that Kabakoff might attempt to make a demand for more money, promoter George Parnassus was smart enough to bring in a "stand by" opponent, ready to step in to fight Olivares in the event of a last minute "pull out". The "stand by" opponent was Rafael Herrera. Pimentel went thru with the match, only to be stopped by the great Olivares in 12 rounds. I was an Olivares sparring partner for that fight. I think Pimentel was one of the best bantams of a great era, but I'm not sure he'd have beaten Harada or Jofre, two of the best ever?

Frank wrote:
Thanks Charlie for your kind words, but I'm not "sharp as a tack". I wish my memory was as good as Rick's, Hap's and Don Fraser's, but truth be told, it is not, though Hap and Don have some years on me they have a better memory then I. As some of the guys here know I went through a bout with cancer and a treatment that left me with short and long term memory loss, I can't remember enough to write much of anything. The stories that I have written are fiction, though I use little bits of my life experience to write them, an I have to say its been fun writing them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frank, I'm not just being kind when I say that your memory is at the foundation of this thread. It's human nature for a person's recall to be affected by age, medication, etc. however, I hope my memory is as good as yours, Hap's and Don's as I age. You can say all you want about medication, and I'm sure it has had some effect, but as far as I am concerned, "Sharp as a tack" is appropriate in describing your memory! My opinion.

kikibalt wrote:

THEHAMMER321 wrote:Frank I know you see Jesus Pimental at the CBOF functions, I was just reading some of my old boxing magazines, and they profiled his career in one I was reading last night,it talked about he had problems with Eileen Eaton and George Parnassus, and that was part of the reason he didn't get a title shot until he was over 30, do you know if the problems with Eaton and Parnassus were because of his manager.

Most people in the Los Angeles boxing community blame Harry Kabakoff for that, and I agree with that, I think Harry over protected Jessie. There were times when he could have gotten Jess a title fight but Harry would start yelling about the money and most people could see that that was his way of turning the fights down. By the way, Jackie mcCoy and I did just that when we were offered a title shot for Frankie against the great Alexis Arguello, we thought that Frankie at that point in 1979, I think it was in 1979, was not ready for AA, hell, he probably never would had been ready for AA, but any way we were offered 35k and we asked for 75k knowing that Don King would never go along with that, we lost on 35k, but I thing saved Frankie from an ass whipping, of course had AA not been the monster that he was we would had fought him for the 35k.

You know Frank, I admire your honesty about Frankies chances vs AA, but Tony on the other hand, I would have given him a chance versus all of the lightweights even Aaron Pryor because of Pryors wide open style, Mancini same thing wide open, Rosario would have been a great fight, the guys who would have been the most difficult for Tony in my opinion would have been Tyrone Crawley, and Livingstone Bramble,oh I almost forgot another couple of guys Tony could have fought at jr wetler Gene Hatcher or Bruce Curry, both of those guys would have been open for the left hook.

Flooding in L.A. County:

6" of rushing water will knock a large man off his feet.
12" will wash away a small car.
2' will wash away a large SUV.

The power of raging water!

Well, I saw "The Fighter" last night. All I can say about the movie is that it's another "boxing movie" that really isn't about boxing. . .

I'm planning to see "True Grit" when it comes out . . . hopefully, it will be an Old West movie that's really about the Old West . . .