BoxRec

Panzerfaust wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

bennie wrote: She is worthy of a say in the matter, I suppose.

A boy named sue??.......who remembers a song by that name??

One of my favourite Johnny Cash songs.

"A Boy Named Sue" . . .

Mine too, Frank. In fact, it reminds me of one of the toughest heavyweights I knew in the amateurs, my stablemate Al "Kit" Boursse'
Al had an old Model-A Ford (1932), and it even had a rumble seat in the rear.
I'd meet Al at his home in Sun Valley, and from there we'd head to the Johnny Flores Gym on weekdays, and the Main St. Gym on weekends.
The old car was great, and had an 8-Track tape player. Al loved Johnny Cash, and on our way to the gym he'd play Johnny Cash tapes.
I'll never forget right after the 1969 Golden Gloves Nationals when the L.A. team arrived back home from Kansas City.
Al and I were driving to the gym a few days later when he put in a new Johnny Cash tape, featuring "A Boy Named Sue."
Al told me, "Wait 'til you here this . . . ".
What a great song! As we were driving down the freeway Al would backfire the Model A to the beat of the music.
One day, we gave trainer Teddy Bentham a ride home from the Main Street Gym in the Model-A, I had to ride in the rumble seat.
As we passed thru the tunnels on the Pasadena Fwy. below Dodger Stadium, Al put on the Johnny Cash tape.
When a "Boy Named Sue" played, he backfired the Model-A and Bentham nearly jumped out of his skin.
"What in the Hell are you doing you crazy sonofabitch??" Bentham screamed.
I was in back, in the seat behind the cab, lots of noise but I could here Bentham bitching.

When we dropped Teddy off at the Van Nuys home of entertainer Eddie Foy III (where Teddy lived in L.A.) the old boxing legend told us . . .
"Next time I'll take the fu_king bus. You two are crazy!"

Thanks for posting this song! To Johnny Cash

Teddy Bentham . . .

Charlie, I know you are a little younger than me, but do you remember Teddy Bentham from New York?
He trained some great fighters such as Carlos Ortiz, and later my stablemate, Jerry Quarry.
He was in my corner once as a second for Johnny Flores. Teddy was close with Main Street Gym owner, Howie Steindler, in L.A.
Bentham passed away shortly after the incident with the Model-A.
He was found dead several days later in Foy's home.

This story is from The New York Magazine, written by a great writer, Pete Hamill.
It tells about Jerry Quarry in training for the first Frazier fight.
At different points in this thread, I speak proudly of my good friend Al Boursse"
Al was just 18 when Johnny Flores took him to NY Grossinger's to be Jerry Quarry's sparring partner.
Al was very proud of this story. Thirty years later Al would die a hero, attempting to rescue two mentally challenged kids from being hit by a train.
The names I read in this story are a part of my history . . . Flores, Boursse' and Bentham.
May God bless their souls . . .
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The Great White Hope
By Pete Hamill

(From the June 23, 1969 issue of New York Magazine.)

"It's up to you, Jeff, to save the white race."—Jack London to James J. Jeffries on the eve of Jeffries' fight with Jack Johnson in 1910.


In the ski lodge at Grossinger's, a tall, lanky sparring partner named Alan Boursse played listlessly with a speed bag. He slapped it gently, listening to the sound echoing around the room, then ripped off a barrage of punches, then grabbed it in his hands to quiet it and walked away to look out into the gray afternoon at the workmen repairing the ski slope in the distance. The audience watched him the way people watch the inhabitants of zoos.

"This is a fine young boxer, ladies and gentlemen," the announcer was saying. "He will be boxing today with the next heavyweight champion of the world!"

About ten after three, the man who might be the next heavyweight champion of the world walked briskly into the large room.

"Ladies and gentlemen, Jerry Quarry has now arrived," the pitchman said. "Jerry Quarry, who fights Joe Frazier for the title on June 23 at Madison Square Garden! He'll begin boxing shortly."

Jerry Quarry was dressed in natty gray sharkskin trousers, a cobalt-blue shirt and white shoes, and he looked like all those young men in Southern California who don't take drugs or wear their hair long or go off to Berkeley. The dark blond hair was combed straight back, with long sideburns, and you were sure that a few years ago he wore a ducktail. The face itself had that rugged blockiness you see a lot in California: straight short nose, good jaw, neat ears; only Quarry's eyes had that peculiar maturity that comes with the acceptance of pain. He nodded and disappeared into the dressing room.

After awhile, Quarry returned and hopped into the ring. He was wearing green trunks and white boxing shoes, and he started to move briskly around the ring, flicking his bandaged hands at the air. The hard body was tanned and trim, and he twisted it and stretched it, the hands always moving, describing patterns of punches, the jab whipping straight out, the right hand jamming behind it, the short flat hook whipping horizontally across Quarry's own chin-line. The audience seemed hypnotized.

Then Quarry went over to the side of the ring, where his trainer Teddy Bentham smeared Vaseline on his face and laced on a pair of 10-ounce red boxing gloves. Boursse came into the ring, his face masked by headgear. Quarry did not wear headgear, and you could see the blanched look on the face of John Condon, the Garden public relations man. Quarry's fight with Frazier is the hottest prizefight of the year; the Garden might be sold out, and if it is, the live gate alone could be $750,000, with another million coming from closed-circuit television. If Quarry were cut in training it would cost someone a lot of money. But Quarry is a fighter, and the real fighters don't really care much for headgear.

Bentham shouted, "Time!" and the fighters moved at each other. Quarry jabbed, threw a vicious hook to Boursse's side, and then brought the hook up to the head. Boursse held, and Quarry pushed him off and went at him again. For two rounds it went that way: Quarry pursuing, Boursse retreating, and Quarry landing thunderous body punches.

Once, in a corner, he made a move that the good ones take a long time to learn: he threw a left hook-right hand to the body. Most fighters stop at that point and hold on, or come up with swinging hooks to the head. Quarry leaned in, as if to hold Boursse, then stepped back an inch and ripped off a tight fierce uppercut that went between Boursse's gloves to the chin.

"He hits Frazier with that punch, Frazier goes," said Bentham, a small, intelligent man who went to St. Anthony's School in the Village and now lives in L.A. "That is a sweet punch."

Watching Quarry work, I realized suddenly why I was as transfixed by the exhibition as the audience was. Quarry was white. And he was good. I've been around fighters and training camps most of my life, but those camps have always involved black men or Puerto Ricans: Jose Torres, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Emile Griffith, others. With the exception of Joey Archer, most of the white fighters of my time have been imports like Nino Benvenuti, or Ingemar Johansson, or flabby, out-of-shape dockworkers looking for paydays, or stiffs who can't fight. The training camps had peculiar, special atmospheres: paranoid (Muhammad Ali), Spartan (Floyd Patterson), rowdy and boisterous (Torres). They never looked like the training camps in the movies. Quarry's camp did.

FYI . . .

Teddy Bentham also trained former lightweight champ, Jimmy Carter, as well as former featherweight champ, Davey Moore.
Of course, he is well known for training former jr. welter & lightwt. champ Carlos Ortiz.

Panzerfaust wrote:

Thanks Ram, for that beautiful picture of yours and your misses baby...

Rick Farris wrote:FYI . . .

Teddy Bentham also trained former lightweight champ, Jimmy Carter, as well as former featherweight champ, Davey Moore.
Of course, he is well known for training former jr. welter & lightwt. champ Carlos Ortiz.

Teddy Bentham & Davey Moore

I guess I am late for coffee.

THEHAMMER321 wrote:I guess I am late for coffee.

Way late Paul....

kikibalt wrote:

THEHAMMER321 wrote:I guess I am late for coffee.

Way late Paul....

You must have forgot, you aren't the only ''kept man'' on the thread, you got more experience but I am closing in fast.

Who else on here gets ribbed from there kids about the music you listen to, I love a lot of 1970s music and my kids when we are driving want to listen to the new music if thats what you want to call it, so sometimes I give in to them and we listen to ''new garbage''.

Panzerfaust wrote:

Beautiful! You did good, Remy. Congratulations to you and Mom.

kikibalt wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:FYI . . .

Teddy Bentham also trained former lightweight champ, Jimmy Carter, as well as former featherweight champ, Davey Moore.
Of course, he is well known for training former jr. welter & lightwt. champ Carlos Ortiz.

Teddy Bentham & Davey Moore

Two all-time greats.

Tony Moreno . . .

In the photo above, I'm pretty sure it was taken at the Main street Gym?
Moore fought here several times. At the time, Tony Moreno handled boxers, and he created custom boxing equipment.
Tony made Headgear and Cups. All custom made-custom fit, and personalized by an embossing process he used.
What you see above is the featherweight champ, Davey Moore, wearing one of Moreno's products.
You see his name "embossed" in what I know to be red paint over a lifted lettering.

My cup was embossed "R.F." Across the top of my headgear I had, "Ricky".
The embossed red letters of Jesus Pimentel's cup read- "Little Poison". Jerry Quarry's- "Q". Danny Lopez's read- "Little Red". Bobby Chacon's headgear- "Schoolboy". Middleweight Lonnie Harris- "Memphis Shuffler", welterweight Frankie Jennings- "Too Sweet", heavyweight Amos Lincoln- "Big Train", Dwight Hawkins- "The Hawk", heavyweight Jimmy Fletcher- "King", etc.

The photo inspires many memories, although it was taken a few years before I'd be involved in boxing.
It's all about people, places and things.

THEHAMMER321 wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

THEHAMMER321 wrote:I guess I am late for coffee.

Way late Paul....

You must have forgot, you aren't the only ''kept man'' on the thread, you got more experience but I am closing in fast.

For the "Kept Man" . . .

Well Paul, all "Kept Men" on this thread (and wanna be's like myself and Randy) will be at the CBHOF lunch.
According to the "Kept Man" manuel, it's a must. Any man (within five hours of LA) who can't make it to the 2011 CBHOF lunch, will never be "Kept".
See you in June amigo, and the wives will all be there!
You'll have two complimentary tickets waiting at the "Fritzie Zivic" table, with Remy & his lady (and maybe son?), Brian (ExPug) and wife, myself & Monica, Frank & Randy will be close, and Tom Ray, and a guy who helped start this thread, Roger Esty. And if we are real lucky, Dan Hanley & Pops.
I'm having my cousin come in from Florida to shoot still photos.
And I'll have a cameraman & sound man, and a room set-up like a studio for the weekend.
And a couple interviewers for lunch, hand held camera stuff.
We have a few special boxers being inducted, and some notable California boxing personalities.
In the house will be some great boxing legends.
One guy who was big here was light-heavy top ten contender, Ray "Windmill" White. The "Clown Prince" of boxing.
White fought, and beat, some of the best 175 pounders of his era. He was a real good man, personally.
The same can be said for my personal favorite, Dwight Hawkins. He was so very good! That's all I can say.
The rest is just icing on a historically correct cake.
Paul, now that we understand you don't have to worry about "taking time off work", and being a "kept man", you'll be free to come, and bring mamma!

Looking forward to meeting you, June 25th!

Davey Moore's opponents in Los Angeles . . .

Victor Quijano
Fili Nava
Vince Delgado
Lauro Salas
Kid Anahuac
Pajarito Moreno
Hogan "Kid " Bassey (twice)
Danny Valdez
Felix Cervantes
Cisco Andrade
Mario Diaz
Sugar Ramos

Davey Moore was unbeaten in Los Angeles until his very last bout, when he lost his title and his life to Sugar Ramos.
It was 1963, I was 11. I remember reading of Moore's death, remember the irony of Emile Griffith fighting that night.
A year previous, Benny Paret died after his bout with Griffith.
The Moore- Ramos fight card would be the only one in the history of L.A.'s Dodger Stadium.
Less than a year after it had opened, Dodger Stadium hosted the Moore-Ramos card.
After the death of Davey Moore, L.A. Dodgers president Walter O'Malley said that Dodger Stadium would never again host boxing.
48 years have passed since the Davey Moore-Sugar Ramos card. And as the late Walter O'Malley promised, "no more boxing."

Rick Farris wrote:Davey Moore's opponents in Los Angeles . . .

Victor Quijano
Fili Nava
Vince Delgado
Lauro Salas
Kid Anahuac
Pajarito Moreno
Hogan "Kid " Bassey (twice)
Danny Valdez
Felix Cervantes
Cisco Andrade
Mario Diaz
Sugar Ramos

Davey Moore was unbeaten in Los Angeles until his very last bout, when he lost his title and his life to Sugar Ramos.
It was 1963, I was 11. I remember reading of Moore's death, remember the irony of Emile Griffith fighting that night.
A year previous, Benny Paret died after his bout with Griffith.
The Moore- Ramos fight card would be the only one in the history of L.A.'s Dodger Stadium.
Less than a year after it had opened, Dodger Stadium hosted the Moore-Ramos card.
After the death of Davey Moore, L.A. Dodgers president Walter O'Malley said that Dodger Stadium would never again host boxing.
48 years have passed since the Davey Moore-Sugar Ramos card. And as the late Walter O'Malley promised, "no more boxing."

I no longer have the boxing magazine, it was around 1982 and it talked about how Davey Moore and sugar Ramos played russian roullette with six ounce gloves almost 20 years prior, that's what the person who wrote the article called it, and I remember they said the pope was calling for the abolishment of boxing after Moore died, how ironic how another champion Davey Moore, no relation, died a tragic death after his car rolled backwards in his driveway pinning him against the garage in 1988, both men died when they were around 30 years old.

Regarding the more recent Davey Moore, many people unfairly criticized his managers after his loss to Duran, but I remember the whole scenario very well, Duran had lost to Kirkland Laing and in his next fight looked very ordinary against Jimmy Batten winning a decision, then he beat Pipino Cuevas,going into the fight with Cuevas both men were considered washed up, and the odds on the fight with Moore were, Davey Moore 3 to 1 favorite, so in actuality most people picked Moore to win,and the people who picked Duran were doing so out of sentimentality , so know Duran goes out and gives Davey Moore a beating and people start criticizing Moore's managers for throwing him to the wolves a 12 fight novice they cried, if anybody was calling the fight a mismatch prefight it was people saying Duran was over the hill and how the bigger stronger faster younger Moore would prove to swift for him,a fickle bunch boxing fans are.

Talk is that Amir Khan - the twit who Twits - may now defend his WBA light-welterweight title against Ireland's unheralded Paul McCloskey here on April 16.
Khan was lined up to defend on the night against Lamont Peterson, a solid American with plenty of balls, but Peterson wants a ton of money after years of poverty, so Khan and his team are considering McCloskey, a strong, clever southpaw from Dungiven in Northern Ireland unbeaten in 22 fights.
McCloskey holds the European light-welterweight belt and is currently training to defend against Italy's Michele Di Rocco in Belfast on March 5. He can fight and he is ready to fight but his last four opponents read Dean Harrison, Barry Morrison, Giuseppe Lauri and Daniel Rasilla, and you read Dmitriy Salita, Paulie Malignaggi, Marcos Maidana and Andreas Kotelnik for Khan. Oh! A longer look at their records tells you that the temperamental Colin Lynes is the best man McCloskey has beaten as a pro; Khan holds a win over Marco Antonio Barrera.
People forget also that, for all his amateur exploits, McCloskey failed to make the Athens Olympics in 2004 where Khan made his name with a glittering silver medal at the tender age of 17. Still only 24, Khan is a whopping seven years younger than the McCloskey and much stronger at the weight than the burly challenger, who struggles to boil down to 10 stone.
All in all, McCloskey cannot compare to Khan, who has improved immensely over the last 18 months and makes his first appearance here since blasting the previously unbeaten Salita in 76 seconds in Newcastle in 2009. We can expect the homecoming Bolton boy to prevail in seven or eight rounds this time.

THEHAMMER321 wrote:Regarding the more recent Davey Moore, many people unfairly criticized his managers after his loss to Duran, but I remember the whole scenario very well, Duran had lost to Kirkland Laing and in his next fight looked very ordinary against Jimmy Batten winning a decision, then he beat Pipino Cuevas,going into the fight with Cuevas both men were considered washed up, and the odds on the fight with Moore were, Davey Moore 3 to 1 favorite, so in actuality most people picked Moore to win,and the people who picked Duran were doing so out of sentimentality , so know Duran goes out and gives Davey Moore a beating and people start criticizing Moore's managers for throwing him to the wolves a 12 fight novice they cried, if anybody was calling the fight a mismatch prefight it was people saying Duran was over the hill and how the bigger stronger faster younger Moore would prove to swift for him,a fickle bunch boxing fans are.

You could get 3/1 on Duran before the Moore fight.

Panzerfaust wrote:

A wonderful photo.

bennie wrote:

THEHAMMER321 wrote:Regarding the more recent Davey Moore, many people unfairly criticized his managers after his loss to Duran, but I remember the whole scenario very well, Duran had lost to Kirkland Laing and in his next fight looked very ordinary against Jimmy Batten winning a decision, then he beat Pipino Cuevas,going into the fight with Cuevas both men were considered washed up, and the odds on the fight with Moore were, Davey Moore 3 to 1 favorite, so in actuality most people picked Moore to win,and the people who picked Duran were doing so out of sentimentality , so know Duran goes out and gives Davey Moore a beating and people start criticizing Moore's managers for throwing him to the wolves a 12 fight novice they cried, if anybody was calling the fight a mismatch prefight it was people saying Duran was over the hill and how the bigger stronger faster younger Moore would prove to swift for him,a fickle bunch boxing fans are.

You could get 3/1 on Duran before the Moore fight.

Yes Bennie, I went to a close circuit viewing of the fight at the showboat hotel but the fight itself was in Madison Square Garden, I used to bet the fights often in those days and so I always looked at the odds for every fight.

I met Joseph Nsubuga who fought both Duran and Moore once in Oslo a few years back,Unfortunatly he didnt seem to be doing very well. :(

He did put up a pretty decent effort against Duran though

Panzerfaust wrote:

Congratulations Remy.

You Know Bennie back in the 1980s in Vegas you couldn't always bet on all fights, like for example Larry Holmes vs Scott Frank, they didn't even put it up in any of our sports books because they didn't think they would get any two way action on it, I mean other than a guy who is looking to pass counterfeit money who could bet on a guy like Scott Frank.