BoxRec

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 06:57 Ruiz is very talented but it depends if he's in shape or not, he's the king of altered Instagram images where he looks in shape and then come the weigh in he rocks up looking more like a darts player than a fighter. I'm sure Fury will fancy his chances against him though unlike Usyk.

I think Usyk would be confident of beating Ruiz.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 08:15

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 06:57 Ruiz is very talented but it depends if he's in shape or not, he's the king of altered Instagram images where he looks in shape and then come the weigh in he rocks up looking more like a darts player than a fighter. I'm sure Fury will fancy his chances against him though unlike Usyk.

I think Usyk would be confident of beating Ruiz.

I think it would be a decent fight, despite the fact he looks like Mr Blobby, Ruiz is actually a small heavyweight, and is pretty quick too.

I suspect if he came in Trim, Ruiz wouldn't be much more than 210-220, I think he is actually probably naturally smaller than Usyk.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 08:37

mickey1975 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 08:15

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 06:57 Ruiz is very talented but it depends if he's in shape or not, he's the king of altered Instagram images where he looks in shape and then come the weigh in he rocks up looking more like a darts player than a fighter. I'm sure Fury will fancy his chances against him though unlike Usyk.

I think Usyk would be confident of beating Ruiz.

I think it would be a decent fight, despite the fact he looks like Mr Blobby, Ruiz is actually a small heavyweight, and is pretty quick too.

I suspect if he came in Trim, Ruiz wouldn't be much more than 210-220, I think he is actually probably naturally smaller than Usyk.

He definitely would be a good journeyman/dangerman in most other eras.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 08:15

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 06:57 Ruiz is very talented but it depends if he's in shape or not, he's the king of altered Instagram images where he looks in shape and then come the weigh in he rocks up looking more like a darts player than a fighter. I'm sure Fury will fancy his chances against him though unlike Usyk.

I think Usyk would be confident of beating Ruiz.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 03:30

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 03:09

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 02:43 I'm not sure why people would think that Joe Joyce would automatically be a bigger threat than Andy Ruiz. On what basis or grounds? I like Joyce but...

He defeated an older, slower Joseph Parker. Beyond that win he's got Hammer who never was beyond European level, the shell that was Bryant Jennings, shot Stiverne, over-the-hill Ustinov, and British level Dubois.

At least Ruiz has Ortiz and Joshua on his win column, and one can argue he was robbed when he fought prime Parker for the WBO title. And he beat Joe Hanks when Hanks actually was still good, unlike Joyce.

That all being said it would be cool if Fury did fight him 2 or 3 months from now and then fought Joyce in the fall or winter time. Which is plausible considering Joshua is apparently off the table since he won't fight till December.

And considering most people figure Joyce is far more deserving of a shot at Usyk than Dubois and Hrgovic, it definitely would help Fury to knock off Ruiz and Joyce to have the better 2023 than the Ukrainian. Both fights would certainly be great preparation for an undisputed clash with Usyk or at the very least Joshua.

ya, joe hanks good win ruiz, dubois/parker/jennings etc just crap for joyce

My whole point is that if you look at Joe Joyce's record Hanks is also there and that Joe Joyce has fought much older versions of opponents that other people have already beaten. When Ruiz beat Hanks he was of some importance. Joyce fought a version nobody cared about.

I like him a lot but I don't know how he's seriously considered beyond European level. This whole era is abysmal in talent levels, that's the only reason why hes remotely in the top 10 or 5 in the world. One can make a serious argument that Zhang is probably the 1st opponent he has had that was actually in their prime and of equal level or footing to Joyce.

Hanks was Joe’s 7th pro fight
Ruiz’s 20th. The fight after Ruiz a few months later Hanks lost a close one to journeyman Derek Rossey.

5 years between fights and Joe in effect finished that small comeback.

I think you’re comparing apples with lemons Henry.

As a footnote. You have Joe as a European level fighter? So all the ranked fighters he has met and has despatched are all mediocre? C’mon now. Blinkers off.

si7dog7 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 11:44

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 03:30

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 03:09

ya, joe hanks good win ruiz, dubois/parker/jennings etc just crap for joyce

My whole point is that if you look at Joe Joyce's record Hanks is also there and that Joe Joyce has fought much older versions of opponents that other people have already beaten. When Ruiz beat Hanks he was of some importance. Joyce fought a version nobody cared about.

I like him a lot but I don't know how he's seriously considered beyond European level. This whole era is abysmal in talent levels, that's the only reason why hes remotely in the top 10 or 5 in the world. One can make a serious argument that Zhang is probably the 1st opponent he has had that was actually in their prime and of equal level or footing to Joyce.

Hanks was Joe’s 7th pro fight
Ruiz’s 20th. The fight after Ruiz a few months later Hanks lost a close one to journeyman Derek Rossey.

5 years between fights and Joe in effect finished that small comeback.

I think you’re comparing apples with lemons Henry.

As a footnote. You have Joe as a European level fighter? So all the ranked fighters he has met and has despatched are all mediocre? C’mon now. Blinkers off.

Mediocre? No. But timing is everything. Can we really argue he's much better than Whyte considering he also beat Parker? And Whyte fought a younger, faster version. I'd say he's only marginally better, if we go strictly by the record.

Really I'd of liked to have seen Joyce against the likes of Whyte and Chisora (not now, but earlier in his career) to have properly gauged him. It's great and grand he's hyperactive, at least in comparison to the rest of the field, and finally facing name value opponents but I'd still argue that we're in such a weak era of heavyweights that he's basically European level but being ranked as world level.

I said before, clearly he's better than Dubois and Hrgovic so it's a shame he's not getting first crack at Usyk. I just think he'd lose to Fury and Usyk. His best shot would be Joshua and Wilder at this point.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 11:53

si7dog7 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 11:44

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 03:30

My whole point is that if you look at Joe Joyce's record Hanks is also there and that Joe Joyce has fought much older versions of opponents that other people have already beaten. When Ruiz beat Hanks he was of some importance. Joyce fought a version nobody cared about.

I like him a lot but I don't know how he's seriously considered beyond European level. This whole era is abysmal in talent levels, that's the only reason why hes remotely in the top 10 or 5 in the world. One can make a serious argument that Zhang is probably the 1st opponent he has had that was actually in their prime and of equal level or footing to Joyce.

Hanks was Joe’s 7th pro fight
Ruiz’s 20th. The fight after Ruiz a few months later Hanks lost a close one to journeyman Derek Rossey.

5 years between fights and Joe in effect finished that small comeback.

I think you’re comparing apples with lemons Henry.

As a footnote. You have Joe as a European level fighter? So all the ranked fighters he has met and has despatched are all mediocre? C’mon now. Blinkers off.

Mediocre? No. But timing is everything. Can we really argue he's much better than Whyte considering he also beat Parker? And Whyte fought a younger, faster version. I'd say he's only marginally better, if we go strictly by the record.

Really I'd of liked to have seen Joyce against the likes of Whyte and Chisora (not now, but earlier in his career) to have properly gauged him. It's great and grand he's hyperactive, at least in comparison to the rest of the field, and finally facing name value opponents but I'd still argue that we're in such a weak era of heavyweights that he's basically European level but being ranked as world level.

I said before, clearly he's better than Dubois and Hrgovic so it's a shame he's not getting first crack at Usyk. I just think he'd lose to Fury and Usyk. His best shot would be Joshua and Wilder at this point.

Agree with that Henry.
It’s incredible that DD gets first crack. It seems that the promoters strategy to get fighters ranged with rival organisations have been unlucky for Joe
Dubois should be nowhere near a title shot at this point.

si7dog7 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 12:03

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 11:53

si7dog7 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 11:44

Hanks was Joe’s 7th pro fight
Ruiz’s 20th. The fight after Ruiz a few months later Hanks lost a close one to journeyman Derek Rossey.

5 years between fights and Joe in effect finished that small comeback.

I think you’re comparing apples with lemons Henry.

As a footnote. You have Joe as a European level fighter? So all the ranked fighters he has met and has despatched are all mediocre? C’mon now. Blinkers off.

Mediocre? No. But timing is everything. Can we really argue he's much better than Whyte considering he also beat Parker? And Whyte fought a younger, faster version. I'd say he's only marginally better, if we go strictly by the record.

Really I'd of liked to have seen Joyce against the likes of Whyte and Chisora (not now, but earlier in his career) to have properly gauged him. It's great and grand he's hyperactive, at least in comparison to the rest of the field, and finally facing name value opponents but I'd still argue that we're in such a weak era of heavyweights that he's basically European level but being ranked as world level.

I said before, clearly he's better than Dubois and Hrgovic so it's a shame he's not getting first crack at Usyk. I just think he'd lose to Fury and Usyk. His best shot would be Joshua and Wilder at this point.

Agree with that Henry.
It’s incredible that DD gets first crack. It seems that the promoters strategy to get fighters ranged with rival organisations have been unlucky for Joe
Dubois should be nowhere near a title shot at this point.

Joe is unfortunate in that he is old, which reduces his value to a promoter, he is not very exciting at least not in the way that generates big ticket sales, and he is very dangerous - this means it is unlikely he will get more than one bit at the cherry before the end of his career.

Dubois is probably being thrown to the lions here, shite or bust, Joyce brutally exposed his severe limitations as a fighter, and so they'v wangled a deal to get him in an undeserving mandatory shot against Usyk, - this is a promoters job, to leverage their relationships with the sanctioning bodies, to get their fighters shots - a lot of a promoters time is spent on the phone trying to get their fighters ranked where they need them for either voluntary or mandatory shots.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 13:58

si7dog7 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 12:03

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 11:53

Mediocre? No. But timing is everything. Can we really argue he's much better than Whyte considering he also beat Parker? And Whyte fought a younger, faster version. I'd say he's only marginally better, if we go strictly by the record.

Really I'd of liked to have seen Joyce against the likes of Whyte and Chisora (not now, but earlier in his career) to have properly gauged him. It's great and grand he's hyperactive, at least in comparison to the rest of the field, and finally facing name value opponents but I'd still argue that we're in such a weak era of heavyweights that he's basically European level but being ranked as world level.

I said before, clearly he's better than Dubois and Hrgovic so it's a shame he's not getting first crack at Usyk. I just think he'd lose to Fury and Usyk. His best shot would be Joshua and Wilder at this point.

Agree with that Henry.
It’s incredible that DD gets first crack. It seems that the promoters strategy to get fighters ranged with rival organisations have been unlucky for Joe
Dubois should be nowhere near a title shot at this point.

Joe is unfortunate in that he is old, which reduces his value to a promoter, he is not very exciting at least not in the way that generates big ticket sales, and he is very dangerous - this means it is unlikely he will get more than one bit at the cherry before the end of his career.

Dubois is probably being thrown to the lions here, shite or bust, Joyce brutally exposed his severe limitations as a fighter, and so they'v wangled a deal to get him in an undeserving mandatory shot against Usyk, - this is a promoters job, to leverage their relationships with the sanctioning bodies, to get their fighters shots - a lot of a promoters time is spent on the phone trying to get their fighters ranked where they need them for either voluntary or mandatory shots.

James. Do you work for a promoter?
Coz this is a lovely answer but,
Not answering much

Joe is old?

C’mon now

si7dog7 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 14:27

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 13:58

si7dog7 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 12:03
Agree with that Henry.
It’s incredible that DD gets first crack. It seems that the promoters strategy to get fighters ranged with rival organisations have been unlucky for Joe
Dubois should be nowhere near a title shot at this point.

Joe is unfortunate in that he is old, which reduces his value to a promoter, he is not very exciting at least not in the way that generates big ticket sales, and he is very dangerous - this means it is unlikely he will get more than one bit at the cherry before the end of his career.

Dubois is probably being thrown to the lions here, shite or bust, Joyce brutally exposed his severe limitations as a fighter, and so they'v wangled a deal to get him in an undeserving mandatory shot against Usyk, - this is a promoters job, to leverage their relationships with the sanctioning bodies, to get their fighters shots - a lot of a promoters time is spent on the phone trying to get their fighters ranked where they need them for either voluntary or mandatory shots.

James. Do you work for a promoter?
Coz this is a lovely answer but,
Not answering much

Joe is old?

C’mon now

No, I don't - I spoke with many fighters and with promoters over the years, when I was still writing about boxing, anybody who has got anywhere near the business side of things would tell you the same.

This is the way boxing works, the business is run by promoters, who effectively put on events to generate ticket and TV revenues, which in turn fund the sanctioning bodies.

Joe turned over late, which means he always had a limited shelf life, he is already 37, which means that even if he wins the title, he's not going to be defending it long. Promoters generally invest in fighters in order to get the payoff at the height of their careers, often pouring a lot of money in in the early stages. A fighter who turns pro late, is a risky proposition for that reason, it's possible their career is over before you've recouped the money spent in the earlier stages.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 14:34

si7dog7 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 14:27

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 13:58

Joe is unfortunate in that he is old, which reduces his value to a promoter, he is not very exciting at least not in the way that generates big ticket sales, and he is very dangerous - this means it is unlikely he will get more than one bit at the cherry before the end of his career.

Dubois is probably being thrown to the lions here, shite or bust, Joyce brutally exposed his severe limitations as a fighter, and so they'v wangled a deal to get him in an undeserving mandatory shot against Usyk, - this is a promoters job, to leverage their relationships with the sanctioning bodies, to get their fighters shots - a lot of a promoters time is spent on the phone trying to get their fighters ranked where they need them for either voluntary or mandatory shots.

James. Do you work for a promoter?
Coz this is a lovely answer but,
Not answering much

Joe is old?

C’mon now

No, I don't - I spoke with many fighters and with promoters over the years, when I was still writing about boxing, anybody who has got anywhere near the business side of things would tell you the same.

This is the way boxing works, the business is run by promoters, who effectively put on events to generate ticket and TV revenues, which in turn fund the sanctioning bodies.

Joe turned over late, which means he always had a limited shelf life, he is already 37, which means that even if he wins the title, he's not going to be defending it long. Promoters generally invest in fighters in order to get the payoff at the height of their careers, often pouring a lot of money in in the early stages. A fighter who turns pro late, is a risky proposition for that reason, it's possible their career is over before you've recouped the money spent in the earlier stages.

So he waits
FW gets the guy he’s beaten comprehensively, into a title shot beating easy “ish” oppo

Joyce should just pack it in then James?

I get it. (and I know your work from old James, I really do). From years back.

There needs to be a consensus that this isn’t right

And the Promoter here needs to stand proud .

Boxing needs one Governing Body….an above board Governing Body
It really does
Coz all this crap is just…..crap

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 11:53
Really I'd of liked to have seen Joyce against the likes of Whyte and Chisora (not now, but earlier in his career) to have properly gauged him. It's great and grand he's hyperactive, at least in comparison to the rest of the field, and finally facing name value opponents but I'd still argue that we're in such a weak era of heavyweights that he's basically European level but being ranked as world level.

I said before, clearly he's better than Dubois and Hrgovic so it's a shame he's not getting first crack at Usyk. I just think he'd lose to Fury and Usyk. His best shot would be Joshua and Wilder at this point.

Dubois was ahead on two judges’ cards before he was stopped with eye damage against Joyce.

si7dog7 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 15:22

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 14:34

si7dog7 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 14:27

James. Do you work for a promoter?
Coz this is a lovely answer but,
Not answering much

Joe is old?

C’mon now

No, I don't - I spoke with many fighters and with promoters over the years, when I was still writing about boxing, anybody who has got anywhere near the business side of things would tell you the same.

This is the way boxing works, the business is run by promoters, who effectively put on events to generate ticket and TV revenues, which in turn fund the sanctioning bodies.

Joe turned over late, which means he always had a limited shelf life, he is already 37, which means that even if he wins the title, he's not going to be defending it long. Promoters generally invest in fighters in order to get the payoff at the height of their careers, often pouring a lot of money in in the early stages. A fighter who turns pro late, is a risky proposition for that reason, it's possible their career is over before you've recouped the money spent in the earlier stages.

So he waits
FW gets the guy he’s beaten comprehensively, into a title shot beating easy “ish” oppo

Joyce should just pack it in then James?

I get it. (and I know your work from old James, I really do). From years back.

There needs to be a consensus that this isn’t right

And the Promoter here needs to stand proud .

Boxing needs one Governing Body….an above board Governing Body
It really does
Coz all this crap is just…..crap

I guess im just jaded with the sport. It was one of the reasons i stopped writing. Fell out of love with a sport where there was more to write about in terms of politics than actual fights.

Nobody can fix it, its hopeless im afraid. As long as it remains driven by individual promoters with competing interests it will remain the same.

BigDoofus wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 16:02

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 11:53
Really I'd of liked to have seen Joyce against the likes of Whyte and Chisora (not now, but earlier in his career) to have properly gauged him. It's great and grand he's hyperactive, at least in comparison to the rest of the field, and finally facing name value opponents but I'd still argue that we're in such a weak era of heavyweights that he's basically European level but being ranked as world level.

I said before, clearly he's better than Dubois and Hrgovic so it's a shame he's not getting first crack at Usyk. I just think he'd lose to Fury and Usyk. His best shot would be Joshua and Wilder at this point.

Dubois was ahead on two judges’ cards before he was stopped with eye damage against Joyce.

So what?

He got systematically beaten up.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 17:05

BigDoofus wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 16:02

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 11:53
Really I'd of liked to have seen Joyce against the likes of Whyte and Chisora (not now, but earlier in his career) to have properly gauged him. It's great and grand he's hyperactive, at least in comparison to the rest of the field, and finally facing name value opponents but I'd still argue that we're in such a weak era of heavyweights that he's basically European level but being ranked as world level.

I said before, clearly he's better than Dubois and Hrgovic so it's a shame he's not getting first crack at Usyk. I just think he'd lose to Fury and Usyk. His best shot would be Joshua and Wilder at this point.

Dubois was ahead on two judges’ cards before he was stopped with eye damage against Joyce.

So what?

He got systematically beaten up.

It showed (to me at least) that he can box a bit at that level.

A bit, but joyce just circled and jabbed most of the fight.

Dubois is pretty basic.

Looks good with a passive pudding stood right in front of him.

he was stopped because he was down for a 10 count - a ko loss. no doctor ever ruled the eye was too bad to continue, nor did dubois have the corner pull him under protest

stopped on 'eye damage' is so ............the man was broken down and couldnt take any more. from round one he was eating jabs like fat kids eat cake and eventually he gave in himself

[quote=jamesmcdonnell post_id=5888843 tim

Joe is unfortunate in that he is old, which reduces his value to a promoter, he is not very exciting at least not in the way that generates big ticket sales, and he is very dangerous - this means it is unlikely he will get more than one bit at the cherry before the end of his career.

Dubois is probably being thrown to the lions here, shite or bust, Joyce brutally exposed his severe limitations as a fighter, and so they'v wangled a deal to get him in an undeserving mandatory shot against Usyk, - this is a promoters job, to leverage their relationships with the sanctioning bodies, to get their fighters shots - a lot of a promoters time is spent on the phone trying to get their fighters ranked where they need them for either voluntary or mandatory shots.
[/quote]


Agree with all this James ,, and it just makes me think the Dubois - Usyk fight was always on the agenda , behind the scenes instead of FURY , not on Usyks part but on Fwanks and Furys ,, it amazed me the amount that would of been spent and then wasted with Fwank not seeming to care usually he is up in arms with steam coming out his ears , when things don't go his way , you would of expected him to say i'm finished with him Fury is too hard to deal with

, BUT no he's backing him all the way ,, and NO ONE will tell me Fwank did'nt know Fury was'nt even in a proper camp , he had no trainer , I believe it was always DD being thrown to the Lions and if he's lucky then his first defence will be Fury ,

Joyce has certainly ben left in the background stupid thing is with the internet now with us and social media in the forefront , the fight negotiations are becoming bigger than the actual fights

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 17:05

BigDoofus wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 16:02

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 11:53
Really I'd of liked to have seen Joyce against the likes of Whyte and Chisora (not now, but earlier in his career) to have properly gauged him. It's great and grand he's hyperactive, at least in comparison to the rest of the field, and finally facing name value opponents but I'd still argue that we're in such a weak era of heavyweights that he's basically European level but being ranked as world level.

I said before, clearly he's better than Dubois and Hrgovic so it's a shame he's not getting first crack at Usyk. I just think he'd lose to Fury and Usyk. His best shot would be Joshua and Wilder at this point.

Dubois was ahead on two judges’ cards before he was stopped with eye damage against Joyce.

So what?

He got systematically beaten up.

The fight was closer than people remember. Since then the consensus on here seems to be that Joyce is brilliant and Dubois is terrible.

Dubois fought out of his skin, but the reality is - He got stopped and against a figher who's output was defined by his jab. 80% in fact.

Maybe if he could move his head, Dubois could have a good shot at being something in the heavyweight division.

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑13 Apr 2023, 03:22 Dubois fought out of his skin, but the reality is - He got stopped and against a figher who's output was defined by his jab. 80% in fact.

Maybe if he could move his head, Dubois could have a good shot at being something in the heavyweight division.

He was just 23 years old. At that age Joyce, Joshua and Usyk hadn’t had one pro fight.

I think Dubois' defeat to Joyce has aged well. Joyce is a monster in the ring (seems a lovely fella outside the ring) and Dubois had some moments in there and will have learnt a lot from that fight.

Dubois also has what the aussies call "ticker", to go with his punch power; anyone that climbs off the floor three times with a bad knee to comeback and win, commands respect, I feel.

The fact that he took the Joyce fight shows that he is ambitious and prepared to go in with good fighters.

BigDoofus wrote: ↑13 Apr 2023, 03:11

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 17:05

BigDoofus wrote: ↑12 Apr 2023, 16:02

Dubois was ahead on two judges’ cards before he was stopped with eye damage against Joyce.

So what?

He got systematically beaten up.

The fight was closer than people remember. Since then the consensus on here seems to be that Joyce is brilliant and Dubois is terrible.

It doesn't matter how close it is, if you don't make it to the end.

In any case, I watched it, and I thought the judges were very generous to Dubois considering.

big lennox wrote: ↑13 Apr 2023, 04:02 I think Dubois' defeat to Joyce has aged well. Joyce is a monster in the ring (seems a lovely fella outside the ring) and Dubois had some moments in there and will have learnt a lot from that fight.

Dubois also has what the aussies call "ticker", to go with his punch power; anyone that climbs off the floor three times with a bad knee to comeback and win, commands respect, I feel.

The fact that he took the Joyce fight shows that he is ambitious and prepared to go in with good fighters.

I don't think he's lacking courage, but he is lacking adaptability, and that will hurt him badly. I don't see him going far from here.

BigDoofus wrote: ↑13 Apr 2023, 03:37

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑13 Apr 2023, 03:22 Dubois fought out of his skin, but the reality is - He got stopped and against a figher who's output was defined by his jab. 80% in fact.

Maybe if he could move his head, Dubois could have a good shot at being something in the heavyweight division.

He was just 23 years old. At that age Joyce, Joshua and Usyk hadn’t had one pro fight.

If he's not learned to slip a jab by now, it's not going to happen at this stage.