BoxRec

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 16:41**

BoxBuzz wrote:any chance of everyone smoking the peace pipe?

Or engaging in empirical positivery?

Or....perhaps practicing some old corny "if you aint got somethin' nice to say you ain't sayin' nothin'isms?"

You tired of this thread now Buzz after being quite active in here?

Why not just lock it?

Actually, your last sentence, if applied, would mean Il Duce wouldn't be able to start any more 'Clay' bashing threads wouldn't it?

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 17:06**

I don't understand what happened to Il Duce. Back in 2009, he used to post much better thread, still
Ali's hate thread but not as bad as this, and actually with quoted fact and good humor.
Suddenly after 2010, he went full retard, don't know if he got banned from ESB forum or not, but now
He is sadly stuck here with his hatred for Ali.
Internet can make people go crazy, many educated people just went full retard for no particular reason.

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 18:26**

Il Duce wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:any chance of everyone smoking the peace pipe?

Or engaging in empirical positivery?

Or....perhaps practicing some old corny "if you aint got somethin' nice to say you ain't sayin' nothin'isms?"
I will continue with the November 1965 Championship Bout in question.

Fact,

After this bout in Las Vegas, Floyd Patterson was 'persona non grata' there, mainly because he
was seen as 'weak' in responding to Cassius Clay and his vicious taunts.

The fight, or lack there of in the Ring, was secondary.

Cassius had so brutalized Floyd in the 'Press' and 'mentally tortured him in the ring' that the
Las Vegas Group wanted Floyd out of Las Vegas.........forever.

So much so, that the Thunderbird Hotel, who had large Billboard Posters with 'Go, Floyd Go'
took them down, and burned them in a 'trash dumpster behind the Casino, that had the
name 'Floyd Patterson' painted on the side of the metal container.

The Thunderbird Hotel Manager told the 'maintenance workers' to get those things down and quick,
......"and burn them, because Floyd ain't coming back here no more".........

And, The Dunes Hotel had a put up letters 'Go Go Go Patterson' on their front Marquis Sign with a
big display of Floyd Patterson.

After the fight, the Hotel Manger instructed the 'sign installers' to, take that 'trash' down and dispose
of it in the nearest dump.

Floyd Patterson, with one of his 'white' Celebrity Friends.........Judy Garland.

Were Sinatra and the rest really expecting Floyd to win?

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 18:53**

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 18:57**

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 18:59**

As you know That One almost always cites his sources.

This one's from memory.

You want to know the measure of A man. One of Muhammad Ali's entourage was stealing from him, When it was brought to his attention do you know what the Ali said ? He said "Don't say anything. If he's stealing from me he probably needs it.

Character is measured almost as much by what one does when nobody is watching as when everybody is watching.

I don't think anybody who has been close to him said he was a "bad guy".

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 19:52**

Il Duce wrote:That One

I think before you make that statement,,,

You should talk to Roy 'Tiger' Williams.

Who I believe said to the 'Great and Compassionate' Muhammad Ali'

You owe me money, 'You Mother****ing Faggot'

Note to Nancey.

Before you chime in with 14 thumbs up and a dozen LOLs, just remember:

THIS NEVER REALLY HAPPENED.

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 19:55**

Giancarlo wrote:

Looks to me that Frazier is looking up to Ali with some admiration in this early photo. (1964?)

The later betrayal must have really hurt.

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 20:21**

yancey wrote:
Giancarlo wrote:

Looks to me that Frazier is looking up to Ali with some admiration in this early photo. (1964?)

The later betrayal must have really hurt.

Joe seemed to have got over it, so what's stopping you?

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 20:26**

Giancarlo wrote:
Il Duce wrote:That One

I think before you make that statement,,,

You should talk to Roy 'Tiger' Williams.

Who I believe said to the 'Great and Compassionate' Muhammad Ali'

You owe me money, 'You Mother****ing Faggot'
Note to Nancey.

Before you chime in with 14 thumbs up and a dozen LOLs, just remember:

THIS NEVER REALLY HAPPENED.

Watch out for the salt water crocs and taipans, bud.

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 20:30**

Giancarlo wrote:
yancey wrote:
Giancarlo wrote:

Looks to me that Frazier is looking up to Ali with some admiration in this early photo. (1964?)

The later betrayal must have really hurt.

Joe seemed to have got over it, so what's stopping you?

Well, it looks like Ali finally stopped pulling Joe's head down on the inside.

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 20:36**

Let go of the hatred, yancey.

Joe did.

FFS man, it was 40 years ago.

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 20:56**

Chacon and Limon buried the hatchet as well.
When rivalries are over....they are......well........over.

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 22:30**

Il Duce wrote:Floyd Patterson showing off his new Cap that he received from Frank Sinatra.

Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Joey Bishop and Peter Lawford were friends with Floyd.

While he was out in Las Vegas, the 'Rat Pack' loved Floyd, and hated the 'Evil Cassius'.

See all of Floyd's new friends, at the gathering.

Sad that Sinatra turned his back on Floyd after the fight. I'm sure Floyd felt bad enough.

I really don't see how anyone could feel that Patterson let them down. He was physically overmatched in that fight.

Anyone know the odds on the first Ali-Patterson fight?

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 23:39**

I always liked Floyd.

Pure class.

I remember when he was in the UK giving Frank Bruno a few tips. What a nice guy he was.

Posted: **10 Oct 2013, 23:58**

Il Duce wrote:Floyd Patterson showing off his new Cap that he received from Frank Sinatra.

Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Joey Bishop and Peter Lawford were friends with Floyd.

While he was out in Las Vegas, the 'Rat Pack' loved Floyd, and hated the 'Evil Cassius'.

See all of Floyd's new friends, at the gathering.

"Frank Sinatra, who had befriended Patterson when he had become champion proved to be the completely egotistical fairweather friend many would know him to be in many contests Patterson went to see him the day after the fight. Frank Sinatra barely said a word and turned his back on him. Patterson almost wept." ( If Sinatra hated Ali so much, why didn't he get in the ring with him or get one of his goombahs to do so?)

Posted: **11 Oct 2013, 08:38**

Il Duce wrote:Hold On,

Frank Sinatra was one the 'first' guys to visit Floyd in his dressing room after the fight,
and told him that he had nothing to be ashamed of.

Frank told Floyd, take some time off and rest that back. You can't get in the ring in that
condition, and expect to win a fight like that. You were torturing yourself tonight.

Floyd and Frank discussing 'boxing tactics' to foil Cassius Clay.

"Frank Sinatra, who had befriended Patterson when he had become champion proved to be the completely egotistical fairweather friend many would know him to be in many contests Patterson went to see him the day after the fight. Frank Sinatra barely said a word and turned his back on him. Patterson almost wept

http://books.google.com/books?id=WiTLhu ... terson&f=f

"Frank Sinatra was one the 'first' guys to visit Floyd in his dressing room after the fight,
and told him that he had nothing to be ashamed of.

Frank told Floyd, take some time off and rest that back. You can't get in the ring in that
condition, and expect to win a fight like that. You were torturing yourself tonight."

It seems a material fact is in dispute. You will just have to provide EVIDENCE for this one,

Posted: **11 Oct 2013, 08:51**

Francis Albert Sinatra and Floyd Patterson before the fight:

Sinatra called Floyd to his suite.
Sinitra was very nice that morning, very encouraging.“He told me I could win,” Floyd said, “had to win. The whole country was counting on me.”

Francis Albert Sinatra and Floyd Patterson after the fight:

Floyd gimped to Sinatra’s suite the next night to apologize, and bumped into
human nature. Frank moved to the far side of the room, away from Floyd, sat down, his back “all the way over there to me. I got the message.
I left.”

A more mature Ali would probably have realized Floyd was being used and empathized with him but he did have the perspicacity to see he was being used and that rankles some people.

Posted: **11 Oct 2013, 09:34**

Il Duce wrote:Joey Bishop,

"Ahh, people made up that story about Floyd and Frank. Floyd felt that he let everybody down,
and was really to himself after the fight, and didn't want any sympathy."

"Floyd just wanted to be by himself, and didn't want any back-slapping, with people saying,
You'll get him next time Floyd'."

"Floyd went into the ring and gave it his best effort despite the back injury. I gave him no chance
at all to win, but I still rooted for my friend. But I saw the way he was favoring his back, and his
corner should have stopped it after Round 5, and just claimed an injury."

It seems a material fact is in dispute. You will just have to provide EVIDENCE for this one. (REDUX)

Posted: **11 Oct 2013, 09:41**

I think Mario Puzo pretty much caught the essence of Francis Albert Sinatra:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... iP-uHBg-pU

Posted: **11 Oct 2013, 10:35**

Watched this fight yesterday...clearly Ali was far superior than Patterson. I know I will be in the minority here but i do not think Ali tortured Patterson but more like compassionate..he held back a fair bit...ali did go overboard as usual. But i think he liked floyd.

Posted: **11 Oct 2013, 10:41**

Il Duce wrote:Lee Alderson, Thunderbird Hotel,

"Floyd was really not at all into the fight to be honest. His back was really bothering
him, and Cassius was saying all those 'Great Black White Hope' things about Floyd,
which I felt was a 'filthy' way of going for a Champion."

"Many people put pressure on Floyd to win, and he was really a quiet sort who
was not a 'braggart' or enjoyed that kind of stuff. Once I asked him if he
was enjoying himself here in Las Vegas, and he just looked at me and shrugged
his shoulders."

I'm going to need a citation for that. For Floyd's supporters beating Ali was a crusade. For some of them it still is.

Posted: **11 Oct 2013, 11:26**

Il Duce wrote:Not Really,

It was 'unfiltered' Hype that was being stirred up by the Cassius Clay Clan.

You know what I'm talking about.

Cassius, "All of America wants Floyd to defeat me and when he fails they will throw him under the bus.. He's fighting for White America.That's how they are."

Floyd, "OK Cassius, if that's what you want to believe."

FIXED

Posted: **11 Oct 2013, 13:42**

Il Duce wrote:Chronic Back Ailment

One can only wonder what a 'pain free' Floyd would have done to Cassius Clay.

Considering he was 0-4 against their common opponents while Ali was 5-0 probably not much.

Posted: **11 Oct 2013, 13:53**

Il Duce wrote:Yes, but in the 'Game of Life'

Im my deeply biased and highly subjective opinion Floyd Patterson was more respected as a 'good man'.

In the 'Battle of Evil Human's', Cassius took that one by a TKO.

FIXED

But Floyd was a good man, certainly better than that cheap dime store thug who turned his back on him:

"Frank Sinatra, who had befriended Patterson when he had become champion proved to be the completely egotistical fairweather friend many would know him to be in many contests Patterson went to see him the day after the fight. Frank Sinatra barely said a word and turned his back on him. Patterson almost wept."

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