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Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 12 Oct 2022, 17:27
by joshj909
Dioufy wrote: ↑12 Oct 2022, 17:13
1103924 wrote: ↑12 Oct 2022, 13:00
Based on which performances against top quality opposition? I'm not talking about the dumplings he beat to get such a high KO percentage.
It’s kinda the manner in which he dispatched those dumplings. He’s a tremendous puncher and for someone who is naturally a 220lb ish man some of his methods of KO have been quite chilling.
Devastating KO's no doubt but almost all of those guys have been proven to be fairly chinny before or after him knocking them out. A number of them were hard work for him to T/KO despite being chinny.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 12 Oct 2022, 18:11
by 1103924
Dioufy wrote: ↑12 Oct 2022, 17:13
1103924 wrote: ↑12 Oct 2022, 13:00
Based on which performances against top quality opposition? I'm not talking about the dumplings he beat to get such a high KO percentage.
It’s kinda the manner in which he dispatched those dumplings. He’s a tremendous puncher and for someone who is naturally a 220lb ish man some of his methods of KO have been quite chilling.
AJ would no doubt have done just the same if he had been fed as many sacrifices. Wilder's first 26 would be knockouts for Ortiz or Ruiz and they were like the opponents Alex Stewart faces before Holyfield.
Re: Fury vs Chisora III is on (apparently)
Posted: 12 Oct 2022, 20:21
by Finkel
mickey1975 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 12:30
stevec@france wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 11:17
polecateddy wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 08:40
Yes I wasn’t going to labour the point, but Lewis did a great job demo-img how champs should act. What was it 6 weeks after popping Michael Grant’s bubble, polaxed Botha in 2.
only a clown or an american would try and fault Lennox Lewis`s resume .
AJ literally called Lennox a clown....
Lennox's record can be got at for a few reasons just like anyones. He's not immune.
Joshua called Lennox a clown because he was being very critical in the media about Joshua v Wilder not being made. More specifically, he was only ever criticizing Joshua. Lewis' position being that Joshua should relinquish some control over to the PBC and give Wilder 50%, because that's what Lewis would do (the implication that he was a true champion) to get the fight made. Unfortunately, it was obvious to most, Lewis was toeing the party line of his network pay masters in America and was willing to parlay his credibility at the altar of the American dollar. Which resulted in Joshua calling him a clown when the topic was brought up in an interview.
I don't recall it having anything to do with Lewis' boxing record.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 12 Oct 2022, 20:27
by Finkel
That comment needs more recognition.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 12 Oct 2022, 23:50
by Cojimar 1946
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑12 Oct 2022, 12:24
Frostieballs wrote: ↑12 Oct 2022, 11:47
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑12 Oct 2022, 10:16
I think it does. Wlad is the dominant force of a decade, to outbox the man who outboxed everyone was very impressive. Wilder is the biggest puncher of the decade and then you have Whyte, Cunningham and Wallin who may yet have a decent career.
Marciano gets called an ATG off beating Past prime Charles x2, Old Moore, Old Walcott x2 and a shot to pieces Louis. There was a clear number 1 for the majority of his reign called Valdes who was significantly bigger than him who his management avoided. They also kept him away from taller bigger Bob Baker.
Most fans consider Jack Dempsey an ATG, despite him drawing the colour line and not fighting black fighters. Harry Wills was the number 1 contender for nearly a decade but never got a title shot. Langford was an ATG still active during this time. And Jeanette and Mcvey were 2 of the best. Harry Greb, who was white, was the best light heavyweight and middleweight of his era and Dempsey wouldn't fight him, instead fighting men who lost to Greb.
Do most fans consider Dempsey an ATG?
On boxingnews24 Classic forum they nearly all do but ofcourse he has fans and detrators. Historians have generally rated him top 15 HWs of all time. Although I think it's fair to say boxing progressed after his time.
He was also one of Mike Tyson's favourite boxers that Tyson's/De Mato's style is partly built on.
Wilders reputation is based largely on fighting Fury he has an extremely thin resume. To date Fury has fought only 3 opponents one could reasonably argue were world class. That's far fewer quality opponents than most heavyweights classed as great.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 05:34
by Boxerbeetle
Does anyone actually rate Wilder, apart from rabid Fury fans? He’s shit.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 05:45
by cormack
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 05:34
Does anyone actually rate Wilder, apart from rabid Fury fans? He’s shit.
not one bit
the resume is just full of handpicked opposition ready to be put down
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 07:43
by Ezzard
I rate Wilder. Great single punch KO artist. Great heart shown in soaking up the beatings Fury put on him.
He has his drawbacks for sure. But he's a dangerous HW in any era.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 08:04
by Glass Joe
People seem to forget Fury Wilder 3 4th round. could had been over another 20 seconds.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 10:16
by Cojimar 1946
Ezzard wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 07:43
I rate Wilder. Great single punch KO artist. Great heart shown in soaking up the beatings Fury put on him.
He has his drawbacks for sure. But he's a dangerous HW in any era.
Aren't ratings supposed to be based on actual accomplishments? People are free to believe whatever they want about Wilder but when evaluating Furys legacy I don't see how you get around the fact that Wilder has not faced good opposition and to make matters worse the opponents perceived as more formidable are largely untested. Ortiz aside from giving Wilder problems has done very little with his career. His best win is Bryant Jennings.
Mavrovic gave Lennox Lewis a good fight but that doesn't mean Lewis fans get to claim that Mavrovic is some sort of spectacular win given Mavrovic did very little aside from losing to Lewis
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 11:21
by Ezzard
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 10:16
Ezzard wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 07:43
I rate Wilder. Great single punch KO artist. Great heart shown in soaking up the beatings Fury put on him.
He has his drawbacks for sure. But he's a dangerous HW in any era.
Aren't ratings supposed to be based on actual accomplishments? People are free to believe whatever they want about Wilder but when evaluating Furys legacy I don't see how you get around the fact that Wilder has not faced good opposition and to make matters worse the opponents perceived as more formidable are largely untested. Ortiz aside from giving Wilder problems has done very little with his career. His best win is Bryant Jennings.
Mavrovic gave Lennox Lewis a good fight but that doesn't mean Lewis fans get to claim that Mavrovic is some sort of spectacular win given Mavrovic did very little aside from losing to Lewis
Feels like the board actively dislikes Fury and everyone is now looking at the negative side of any link to him.
Ortiz just had a close fight with Ruiz. No shame in losing a narrow verdict to another top contender and former champ.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 11:52
by Cojimar 1946
Ezzard wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 11:21
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 10:16
Ezzard wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 07:43
I rate Wilder. Great single punch KO artist. Great heart shown in soaking up the beatings Fury put on him.
He has his drawbacks for sure. But he's a dangerous HW in any era.
Aren't ratings supposed to be based on actual accomplishments? People are free to believe whatever they want about Wilder but when evaluating Furys legacy I don't see how you get around the fact that Wilder has not faced good opposition and to make matters worse the opponents perceived as more formidable are largely untested. Ortiz aside from giving Wilder problems has done very little with his career. His best win is Bryant Jennings.
Mavrovic gave Lennox Lewis a good fight but that doesn't mean Lewis fans get to claim that Mavrovic is some sort of spectacular win given Mavrovic did very little aside from losing to Lewis
Feels like the board actively dislikes Fury and everyone is now looking at the negative side of any link to him.
Ortiz just had a close fight with Ruiz. No shame in losing a narrow verdict to another top contender and former champ.
Maybe its because a guy 14 years into his pro career who proclaims himself the best of his era should have accomplished far more in his career by this stage. Fury has remarkably little in the way of quality wins for a guy touted by himself and his apologists as a great heavyweight.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 14:15
by polecateddy
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 10:16
Ezzard wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 07:43
I rate Wilder. Great single punch KO artist. Great heart shown in soaking up the beatings Fury put on him.
He has his drawbacks for sure. But he's a dangerous HW in any era.
Aren't ratings supposed to be based on actual accomplishments? People are free to believe whatever they want about Wilder but when evaluating Furys legacy I don't see how you get around the fact that Wilder has not faced good opposition and to make matters worse the opponents perceived as more formidable are largely untested. Ortiz aside from giving Wilder problems has done very little with his career. His best win is Bryant Jennings.
Mavrovic gave Lennox Lewis a good fight but that doesn't mean Lewis fans get to claim that Mavrovic is some sort of spectacular win given Mavrovic did very little aside from losing to Lewis
He got ill and retired so we’ll never know. Seemed very durable and high work rate though. Hard to beat.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 14:17
by margaret thatcher
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 05:34
Does anyone actually rate Wilder, apart from rabid Fury fans? He’s shit.
fury bois are crazy for wilder, they love themselves some long tall d. it's kinda cute
it's a bit like how wilder fans almost all happen to really rate luis ortiz too
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 14:19
by margaret thatcher
dom breazeale and blobby bermane are among the 3 best guys wilder's beaten, pretty shocking for a champ with 10+ defenses.
wilder's #2 would be aj's #9 at best. people throw around 'long reigning ko artist' because it conveniently leaves out the quality of his record
ya ortiz was in a close losing fight with ruiz, as he was vs wilder. there's no doubt wilder's been a long time top 5, he's a good win to have no doubt, but man is his record ever padded with a hell of a lotta fluff. beating wlad was much better to me than fury beating wilder, as much as people hate on how fury went about it
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 15:07
by KiwiRider
I still haven't come to terms with this fight actually going ahead.
Do Frank and his team not see that no one wants it?
And good on them if they make a profit, but it seems to me to be pretty risky.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 16:09
by mickey1975
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 14:17
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 05:34
Does anyone actually rate Wilder, apart from rabid Fury fans? He’s shit.
fury bois are crazy for wilder, they love themselves some long tall d. it's kinda cute
it's a bit like how wilder fans almost all happen to really rate luis ortiz too
Don't forget AJ fans and Usyk. He's reached mythical status on the back of Del, Chazz and AJ! No doubting that he's excellent but let's wait and see...
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 16:12
by Ruthless-RKO
KiwiRider wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 15:07
I still haven't come to terms with this fight actually going ahead.
Do Frank and his team not see that no one wants it?
And good on them if they make a profit, but it seems to me to be pretty risky.
You’re not alone.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 16:12
by margaret thatcher
mickey1975 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 16:09
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 14:17
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 05:34
Does anyone actually rate Wilder, apart from rabid Fury fans? He’s shit.
fury bois are crazy for wilder, they love themselves some long tall d. it's kinda cute
it's a bit like how wilder fans almost all happen to really rate luis ortiz too
Don't forget AJ fans and Usyk. He's reached mythical status on the back of Del, Chazz and AJ! No doubting that he's excellent but let's wait and see...
hopefully fury doesnt still need half a billion to fight him
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 16:14
by joshj909
mickey1975 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 16:09
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 14:17
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 05:34
Does anyone actually rate Wilder, apart from rabid Fury fans? He’s shit.
fury bois are crazy for wilder, they love themselves some long tall d. it's kinda cute
it's a bit like how wilder fans almost all happen to really rate luis ortiz too
Don't forget AJ fans and Usyk. He's reached mythical status on the back of Del, Chazz and AJ! No doubting that he's excellent but let's wait and see...
What are your thoughts on his Cruiserweight career?
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 16:19
by mickey1975
joshj909 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 16:14
mickey1975 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 16:09
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 14:17
fury bois are crazy for wilder, they love themselves some long tall d. it's kinda cute
it's a bit like how wilder fans almost all happen to really rate luis ortiz too
Don't forget AJ fans and Usyk. He's reached mythical status on the back of Del, Chazz and AJ! No doubting that he's excellent but let's wait and see...
What are your thoughts on his Cruiserweight career?
I think he's brilliant. Just going on the way the forum twists everything to suit who they like I could say he squeaked past Breidis (the aussie did a better job) and lost to Shaun Porter (Lewis v Bowe is always brought up to prove Lewis's supremacy as a pro).
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 16:24
by margaret thatcher
yes, shaun porter and david price are the real kings of the heavyweight division
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 16:26
by mickey1975
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 16:24
yes, shaun porter and david price are the real kings of the heavyweight division
Don't forget John McDermott, the uncrowded king.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 13 Oct 2022, 16:28
by joshj909
mickey1975 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 16:19
joshj909 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 16:14
mickey1975 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 16:09
Don't forget AJ fans and Usyk. He's reached mythical status on the back of Del, Chazz and AJ! No doubting that he's excellent but let's wait and see...
What are your thoughts on his Cruiserweight career?
I think he's brilliant. Just going on the way the forum twists everything to suit who they like I could say he squeaked past Breidis (the aussie did a better job) and lost to Shaun Porter (Lewis v Bowe is always brought up to prove Lewis's supremacy as a pro).
I definitely think there's an issue with people separating how much they like someone and how they see the record/ability of that person.
Re: Tyson Fury vs. Derek Chisora III | BT Sport - 3 December 2022?
Posted: 14 Oct 2022, 03:52
by Ezzard
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 11:52
Ezzard wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 11:21
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 10:16
Aren't ratings supposed to be based on actual accomplishments? People are free to believe whatever they want about Wilder but when evaluating Furys legacy I don't see how you get around the fact that Wilder has not faced good opposition and to make matters worse the opponents perceived as more formidable are largely untested. Ortiz aside from giving Wilder problems has done very little with his career. His best win is Bryant Jennings.
Mavrovic gave Lennox Lewis a good fight but that doesn't mean Lewis fans get to claim that Mavrovic is some sort of spectacular win given Mavrovic did very little aside from losing to Lewis
Feels like the board actively dislikes Fury and everyone is now looking at the negative side of any link to him.
Ortiz just had a close fight with Ruiz. No shame in losing a narrow verdict to another top contender and former champ.
Maybe its because a guy 14 years into his pro career who proclaims himself the best of his era should have accomplished far more in his career by this stage. Fury has remarkably little in the way of quality wins for a guy touted by himself and his apologists as a great heavyweight.
Yes, that's my point in a nutshell.