BoxRec

Ali is the third or fourth greatest pound for pound fighter of all time. He's the greatest Heavyweight of all time. Case closed.

I Feel Fine...

Recently you mentioned people saying Marciano-Moore was a fix, though neither of us were sure where that came from. I don't know if this was the actual source or not, but I just finished The Devil & Sonny Liston, & it asserts quite strongly that fight was thrown by Moore.

Could be the source of those Internet rumours, maybe.

I Feel Fine wrote:Ali is the third or fourth greatest pound for pound fighter of all time. He's the greatest Heavyweight of all time. Case closed.

completely agree i already thought that but last night i watched when we were kings for the first time in a few years and my respect and admiration for the man went up another notch, who else beat two unbeatable monsters in their career while people where worried about them being killed in the ring. ALI was close to if not the greatest fighter of all time if he was say a lightweight or wlterweight he would of won more title but because he was a heavyweight and only eligable for the biggest title in boxing he is often looked at as overrated it is ludicris

Collins2000 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:

Collins2000 wrote: Come on. Grant just got Ali & Louis mixed up. Happens all he time when your boxing knowldege is almost non-existant. Still, him and fellow countryman Bernard provide up with some cheap laughs so we shouldn't really complain.

How are these new interested contributors going to gain confidence in our forum if you make a big thing out of someone simply getting mixed up on some old fighters who had so many obvious similiarities?

Top Ten Reasons to get them mixed up.

*Each fighter had both vowels and consonants in their names.
*Both had similar ethnic backgrounds
*Both were associated (in different ways) with military service
*Both fought "in the old days"
*Both were Heavyweights
*Both were considered undisputed champion during their respective careers
*They were rarely seen together in public at the same time.
*Both showed loss of simulance in language dexterity in their later years.
*Each were featured on the cover of both "The Ring" and "Sports Illustrated" Magazines.


And the biggest reason they often get mixed up?

They both faced off against and defeated their Light Heavyweight Champion counterparts.

These kinds of things create confusion and should not be nitpicked.

Yeah, thanks for helping him out, Buzzy. Once he is able to identify Ali and Louis correctly maybe he can give us his take on the John Holmes - Barry Shavers trilogy particlarly the bout where Henry Cosell's codpiece was dislodged in a post-fight fracas. I believe Wesley Snipes fought Reese Witherspoon on the undercard to that one.

Buzz and his stooge Collins work in tandem.

How clever.

granberry wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:
How are these new interested contributors going to gain confidence in our forum if you make a big thing out of someone simply getting mixed up on some old fighters who had so many obvious similiarities?

Top Ten Reasons to get them mixed up.

*Each fighter had both vowels and consonants in their names.
*Both had similar ethnic backgrounds
*Both were associated (in different ways) with military service
*Both fought "in the old days"
*Both were Heavyweights
*Both were considered undisputed champion during their respective careers
*They were rarely seen together in public at the same time.
*Both showed loss of simulance in language dexterity in their later years.
*Each were featured on the cover of both "The Ring" and "Sports Illustrated" Magazines.


And the biggest reason they often get mixed up?

They both faced off against and defeated their Light Heavyweight Champion counterparts.

These kinds of things create confusion and should not be nitpicked.

Yeah, thanks for helping him out, Buzzy. Once he is able to identify Ali and Louis correctly maybe he can give us his take on the John Holmes - Barry Shavers trilogy particlarly the bout where Henry Cosell's codpiece was dislodged in a post-fight fracas. I believe Wesley Snipes fought Reese Witherspoon on the undercard to that one.

Buzz and his stooge Collins work in tandem.

How clever.

We are still waiting for an explanation of how come your description of the Dempsey - Flyn fight bore no resemblence to contempory accounts.

Some unkind people have hinted that it was just more evidence that you know fekk all about boxing, granny.

Personally I can't weight till 2008!

Why? Because I expect that to be the year that granberry finally comments on the Ali-Terrell affair. I'm sure he's just putting the finishing touches to his masterpiece as 07 closes out.

I should show Buzz more respect, but I probably won't.

C'mon lighten up. 'tis the season. All I've ever asked of you is to comment on that fight. If your going to be that Scrooge'ish I'll not burden you again with the question. And I'll take back 66 2/3% of all the negative comments I've ever sent your way. And never speak disparagingly of you again.

Where else ya gonna get a deal like that?

Merry Christmas granberry!

Buzz

Can I ask what is the deal with the take on the Ali-Terrel fight. I have noticed you chasing down Granberry on a few threads with this.

Kym

Robinson wrote:Buzz

Can I ask what is the deal with the take on the Ali-Terrel fight. I have noticed you chasing down Granberry on a few threads with this.

Kym

I suppose Buzzy just wants the great boxing expert Crankberry's take on this fight.

So far he's told us:

Ali vs Jones was a comprehensive win for Jones but the judges were bought off beforehand.

The usual chestnut regarding Ali vs Cooper (1) ie Ali had 15 minutes to recover while they changed the gloves. Of course all existing footage has been doctored by the 'ali industry' to show a break of only 65 seconds.

Liston was paid to throw fight 1. Ditto fight 2.

Patterson was in no condition to fight Ali in their first fight as he had a spine injury that was so severe he should have been in hospital.

Cleveland Williams was a walking corpse who would have been beaten more convincingly that night by every other heavyweight claimant.

Joe Frazier was on the verge of scoring a KO win in Manilla hence The Traitor Eddie Futch (an Ali stooge) ended the fight prematurely.

Norton won all 3 fights beyond any shadow of doubt.

Jimmy Young won all 15 rounds against Ali but once again the 'ali industry' had bought off the officials.

Foreman fought the wrong fight and so Ali's win is meaningless.

Surely you too would like to hear his spin on the Terrell fight...

ali beat two of the most feared fighters of all time IMO that makes him goat aswell as all of the defences, great fights and some of the most dominating fights in hw championship history

Collins2000 wrote:

Robinson wrote:Buzz

Can I ask what is the deal with the take on the Ali-Terrel fight. I have noticed you chasing down Granberry on a few threads with this.

Kym

I suppose Buzzy just wants the great boxing expert Crankberry's take on this fight.

So far he's told us:

Ali vs Jones was a comprehensive win for Jones but the judges were bought off beforehand.

The usual chestnut regarding Ali vs Cooper (1) ie Ali had 15 minutes to recover while they changed the gloves. Of course all existing footage has been doctored by the 'ali industry' to show a break of only 65 seconds.

Liston was paid to throw fight 1. Ditto fight 2.

Patterson was in no condition to fight Ali in their first fight as he had a spine injury that was so severe he should have been in hospital.

Cleveland Williams was a walking corpse who would have been beaten more convincingly that night by every other heavyweight claimant.

Joe Frazier was on the verge of scoring a KO win in Manilla hence The Traitor Eddie Futch (an Ali stooge) ended the fight prematurely.

Norton won all 3 fights beyond any shadow of doubt.

Jimmy Young won all 15 rounds against Ali but once again the 'ali industry' had bought off the officials.

Foreman fought the wrong fight and so Ali's win is meaningless.

Surely you too would like to hear his spin on the Terrell fight...

Buzz' butt-boy Collins displays several characteristics of his mental illness ----

FIXATION on someone else to the point where he devotes his entire energies to his delusional "battle" with the object of his fixation.

In his mentally ill world Collins demands a one-way communication even to the point where he even "speaks" FOR the object of his fixation.

In the diseased ‘mind’ of Collins, his FIXATION on another poster is somehow relates to the subject of "boxing."

Meanwhile he drags boxrec to a lower and lower level with his feminine fixation and his fixation-driven posts.
.

granberry wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

Robinson wrote:Buzz

Can I ask what is the deal with the take on the Ali-Terrel fight. I have noticed you chasing down Granberry on a few threads with this.

Kym

I suppose Buzzy just wants the great boxing expert Crankberry's take on this fight.

So far he's told us:

Ali vs Jones was a comprehensive win for Jones but the judges were bought off beforehand.

The usual chestnut regarding Ali vs Cooper (1) ie Ali had 15 minutes to recover while they changed the gloves. Of course all existing footage has been doctored by the 'ali industry' to show a break of only 65 seconds.

Liston was paid to throw fight 1. Ditto fight 2.

Patterson was in no condition to fight Ali in their first fight as he had a spine injury that was so severe he should have been in hospital.

Cleveland Williams was a walking corpse who would have been beaten more convincingly that night by every other heavyweight claimant.

Joe Frazier was on the verge of scoring a KO win in Manilla hence The Traitor Eddie Futch (an Ali stooge) ended the fight prematurely.

Norton won all 3 fights beyond any shadow of doubt.

Jimmy Young won all 15 rounds against Ali but once again the 'ali industry' had bought off the officials.

Foreman fought the wrong fight and so Ali's win is meaningless.

Surely you too would like to hear his spin on the Terrell fight...

Buzz' butt-boy Collins displays several characteristics of his mental illness ----

FIXATION on someone else to the point where he devotes his entire energies to his delusional "battle" with the object of his fixation.

In his mentally ill world Collins demands a one-way communication even to the point where he even "speaks" FOR the object of his fixation.

In the diseased ‘mind’ of Collins, his FIXATION on another poster is somehow relates to the subject of "boxing."

Meanwhile he drags boxrec to a lower and lower level with his feminine fixation and his fixation-driven posts.
.

Crankberry, you funny little man.

I find all your posts hilarious, this one particularly so.

"butt boy"? Hahahahaha, that's the extent of your wit? Come on, you can do better than that...

If I was to nominate your most ridiculous assertion it would have to be the one about The Traitor Eddie Futch. That is pure gold and only a totally deranged nob could have dreamt that up.

granberry wrote:
Buzz

I am waiting.

Tell us all about what happened in the third round.


Well granberry, it's a sort of a blur in my mind, and as you know that round can not be found on any tape available....sure you can see rounds 1 and 2...and then from 7 forward, but the Ali conspirators have taken the master videos and hidden the third (and a few others )in the Spanish Pyrenees mountains protected by Monks who have taken a vow of secrecy.

Most of us remember this as rather one sided Ali win...in fact most would say extremely one sided...but as you and I know that third round information has been sequestered and those at the fight and in the closed circuit theatres have been sworn to silence. (Except for everyone on the east coast who knew the fix was in from the gitgo).

So I could tell you what happened but then I'd have to kill you. Which honestly is the biggest reason I'm thinking about telling you everything about that round.

Now...a lot of people will tell you the reason that "highlights" videos of that fight do not contain the 3rd round is because it was not particularly noteworthy, but in fact it contains all you need to know that Ali was a bum. A bum from the olympics right down to his last fight with Trevor Berbick (what you and I know to be Ali's prime). It proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt and that's why "THEY" have done away with it.

If people ever were to witness the horrible things that took place in round three....well the history books on boxing would have to be re-written right then and there. His double actually had to "sit in" for a few rounds until they revived Ali near the 7th and they quietly and without notice snuck him back into the ring where he somehow miraculously finishes the fight.

Smoke and mirrors, trick cameras and that funny flashy thing that the "Men in Black" use were all part and parcel to that Houston Evening.

granberry and I know the truth....and the truth is out there.

Oh and here is what the judges had to say about that night at the Astrodome...

referee: Harry Kessler 137-148 | judge: Jimmy Webb 133-148 | judge: Ernie Taylor 137-148

Notice how many times the digit "3" shows up in the scoring? Coincidence? I think not.
Those judges were doing there best to get the truth out to whoever could decode the scoring. Luckily you and I are on the case.

Oh and the fact that "Ernie Terrell and Ernie Taylor both have "ET" as initials is a dead give away. ~

granberet' then called upon me once again to give details of what happened in the 3rd round.....


I suppose I should honor his request


I'm pretty sure thatTerrell claims his eye was popped out and eaten by Ali much the way Tyson bit Holyfields ear. Yet of course Holyfield found a way to win in spite of the infraction.
Terrell however was not so lucky probably due to the Ali industrial complex of which Eisenhower warned us all about.

Seriously granberry you will take every lame excuse that another fighter puts forth as to why they lost to Ali and take it as absolute truth. And then turn around and say that everytime Ali was in trouble "conspiracies" took place to save him. Don't you see how shallow it appears to be? (Was there an X files episode on this topic?)

According to you Ali never won an honest fight...of course the east coast knew about this all along.

Both Liston Fights were frauds
Williams was an invalid
Young won every round.....(Something very obvious to Young as he kept poking his head out of the ring so he'd be able to follow the fight closely by watching the TV monitor)
Doug Jones beat him ruthlessly
Wepner scored a genunine KD and had him in trouble
Frazier beat him the second time out
Frazier was robbed of a certain KO the third time out by Futch
Foreman was poisoned


in additon to the above here is what according to you is what defines Ali.

Loss to Joe Frazier in one out three events (though Ali should have lost all 3)
Loss to Ken Norton in one out of three events (Should have lost all three)
Loss to Leon Spinks in one out two events
Loss to Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick while Ali was in his Prime

I'm guessing you were not even impressed with his chin since all the fighters must have been paid to pull their punches, yet neither Foreman, Lyle Shavers, Williams or Liston ever scored an official KD on him.

However, JOE FRAZIER WHEN HE HAD HIM DOWN COULD NOT FINISH THE JOB!!!! Though I heard tell FROM YOU that Joe was as good as the game ever produced in terms of a finisher.

You know whats really finished? Your crediblity on this topic. You have a great deal of boxing knowledge but on this topic it's your eye that has been eaten! (No offense to Ernie)

No one and I mean no one takes you serious on this particular subject.

However I will continue to read every entry of yours on this topic for it's entertainmen value. And on many other topics you continue to have much in the way of crediblity. I'll never say you don't have great boxing knowledge...you absolutely do. But when it comes to your opinion on this subject....well there's no "there" there.

And I will be glad to give you an opinion on any prize fighters vocal pipes you care to inquire on If I have their recordings or if I have heard their live performances. Since (as you yourself admit) this is an area I honestly do have some expertise in.

When clueless buzz finishes posting his reams and reams of gibberish

he still hasn't answered the question

What happened in the 3rd round?

We are all waiting, buzz.

Will someone kindly tell just what the hell happened in the 3rd round of Terrell-Ali?

Thanks.

granberry wrote:When clueless buzz finishes posting his reams and reams of gibberish

he still hasn't answered the question

What happened in the 3rd round?

We are all waiting, buzz.

Well I assumed your one track mind tracked whatever the weakest moment in the fight was for Ali....I mean it was a fight so he did take a few along the way. The biggest issues was the eye problem for Terrell that supposedly happened around that time. Thumbing from what Ernie Claimed I suppose. Something you've got to defend against I suppose.

Was the KD or a was Ali "stunned" along the way in that round? I sure don't remember a shaky moment and It is a fight I watched in real time AND have watched several times along the way in life. What did you catch that I missed?

Did Larry Hazzard or Richard STeele step in give him a break?

Buzz,

You have proved by your posts that you don't know what happened in the third round.

What happened in the third round, granberry?

Tantum wrote:What happened in the third round, granberry?

We are waiting for boxing "expert" buzz to tell us.

It is perfectly visible if you have two eyes (or even one) in your head.

.

granberry wrote:

Tantum wrote:What happened in the third round, granberry?

We are waiting for boxing "expert" buzz to tell us.

It is perfectly visible if you have two eyes (or even one) in your head.

.

Hey granberry...cut the one eyed jokes....I have knocked people cold by simply throwing the one I have in my head straight at an offenders temple without ever having a glove laid on me.

Look, I don't have the tape handy, and the highlights I have access to don't show the thumbing moment. But it's a fight, if your thumbed or have your ear bitten you just move on. I SAW THE THING LIVE!!! I do not remember this "defining moment" you are babbling about. Your attention to detail (especially about any possible Ali weak moment) is probably second to none...SO.... please enlighten us as to what took place that once again explains WHY Ali should not be given due credit for another win.

Trust me ....before father time calls a halt to the universe I will have you explaining why EVERY fight he ever fought was bogus. So when your done explaining this one away we will move on to the next as yet unexplained win that Ali magically pulled out.

You should thank me for allowing you to go on the record for others to ponder the clearly expressed ways and means of how must of us were completely bamboozled into thinking this man had any skills.

I can't recall the third round, so I would like to know...

Granberry, please fill me in?

Was ALI was overated?.... Absolutely...was given many fights that everyone knows he lost. His greatest abilities as follows:
Ability to take punishment.
To run around the ring without points being deducted by the Ref.
Allowed to constantly grab and hook his opponents behind the head... round after round... without points being deducted.
And the greatest of all was ability to try and create distractions/diversion so that attention would be directed away from the other fighter in the ring.
Fortunately, plenty of knowledgable boxing fans actually did pay attention to what his opponents were doing in the ring and did not get caught up in any of the nonsence.

RAPID1 wrote:Was ALI was overated?.... Absolutely...was given many fights that everyone knows he lost. His greatest abilities as follows:
Ability to take punishment.
To run around the ring without points being deducted by the Ref.
Allowed to constantly grab and hook his opponents behind the head... round after round... without points being deducted.
And the greatest of all was ability to try and create distractions/diversion so that attention would be directed away from the other fighter in the ring.
Fortunately, plenty of knowledgable boxing fans actually did pay attention to what his opponents were doing in the ring and did not get caught up in any of the nonsence.

This bloke makes crankberry seem sane.

They ought to create a room just for Ali haters...