BoxRec

Ric, Flores gloves were they known as puncher's gloves, horse hair padding? when i started out in the amatuer's many years ago they used Bailey gloves alot they were padded with horse hair, they hurt......LOL

raylawpc wrote:I've been in San Diego since Wedensday for business meetings. We're done at noon Saturday, followed by some R & R for Linda and me until we depart on Monday morning. We are staying at a beautiful resort - the Paradise Point on Vacation Island. Any suggestions from you California guys for things to do on Saturday and Sunday?

Tom & Linda, what ever you do in San Diego; don't go to T.J..... ... you might want to look up Roger....

Rick Farris wrote:

Chuck1052 wrote:Rick, I felt that I was almost alone in being a fan of Alberto Davila at the time he was a professional boxer. He certainly didn't have much of a following in the L.A. area. But I loved to see Davila in action because he had such a beautiful boxing style and knew exactly what to do at almost every moment when he was in the ring. It was really fun seeing Davila box very aggressive fighters, enabling him to display many of his skills to great effect.

Davila's second bout with Frankie Duarte certainly was memorable, but his two bouts with Lupe Pintor really stand out in my mind. I saw their first bout in person at the Forum. Pintor was aggressive with Davila giving him a boxing lesson and winning the decision after ten rounds. At work, I saw their second bout on television, a fifteen-rounder with Pintor's title on the line. In a great bout, Davila boxed beautifully and won the first seven rounds, but Pintor came back during the last eight rounds and won a narrow decision.

- Chuck Johnston

The Pomona Boys . . .

Chuck . . . We are on the same page regarding Albert Davila.
I just remember the first time I saw this little kid in the ring the first time, and he was the same kind of fighter that took on Pintor later and won.
Not a one punch KO artist, just a master boxer that made the sport look so simple. A slight move of the head, he'd make them miss and counter.
And Davila wasn't just a counter puncher, he would go in and set the pace of a fight.
He wasn't a runner, would stand in an opponents face and make them miss and then make them pay.
The last bout with Duarte saw two old pros, no longer teenagers, both were 32, Davila had been a world champ, Duarte almost beat Bernardo Pinango for a title.
However, they fought a great fight, one that Albert was was winning on points when stopped on a cut.
I knew he was going to have trouble when he fought Carlos Zarate, but he was going to spell trouble for the rest .
Davila had a stablemate in the junior amateurs names Bobby Rizo, and Frank informed me that they were related.
Bobby Rizo was another master boxer as a Pee Wee division amateur, just like Davila. However, problems with the law side-tracked a great potential.

Rick, Albert Davila is married to former National Jr. Olympic champion (1976) Bobby Rizo's sister...

Cholo wrote:Ric, Flores gloves were they known as puncher's gloves, horse hair padding? when i started out in the amatuer's many years ago they used Bailey gloves alot they were padded with horse hair, they hurt......LOL

My boys used to use Flores gloves for training...14 oz...

Erik Morales vs Marcos Maidana
MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada
Interim WBA Junior Light Welterweight Title
Golden boy Promotions
HBO Boxing
April 9, 2011

Erik Morales of Mexico, was one of the most exciting fighters of his era and certainly ranked high on anyone's pound for pound list but it has been a while. Morales is three for three in his comeback that began last year with a win over Jose Alfaro in March of 2010, winning a 12 round unanimous decision. He followed up with two more wins; stopping Willie Limond in September and a unanimous decision win in December over Francisco Lorenzo. Mediocre opponents at best but a good starting point for an aging former champion. Still, it's hard to tell how much Morales has left in the tank.

Morales, one half of one of boxing's greatest trilogy, Marco Antonio Barrera being the other half, was as exciting as it gets. His big heart and reputation for throwing caution to the wind made him a crowd pleaser and a fan favorite. Nearing the end of his career he beat Manny Pacquiao in their first fight but lost the last two, getting stopped in both fights.

Morales fought the best fighters of his era, including; Daniel Zaragoza, Wayne McCullough, Kevin Kelly, Junior Jones, Paulie Ayala, Hector Acero Sanchez, Jesus Chavez and Carlos Hernandez. His last fight before retiring was a losing effort, in 1997, against WBC Lightweight champion David Diaz of Chicago (Diaz would lose the title to Manny Pacquiao the following year). The only fighter missing from his resume is the great Juan Manuel Marquez. I don't know why that fight never happened.

Argentinian boxer Marcos Maidana, at 27 and seven years younger than Morales, appears to be at his peak right now. Maidana is coming off a close and exciting loss to Amir Khan last December. Like Erik Morales, and like every other Argentinian fighter that I have ever seen, there is no shortage of courage and heart in this fighter. He proved that in his fight last year with Victor Ortiz, coming back after being knocked down three times in the fight and getting the worst of it before taking control of the fight and severely testing Ortiz' resolve as a fighter, forcing him to quit in the 6th round. Over all, Maidana has not fought the same quality of fighters that Morales has fought.

Morales will certainly have his hands full this Saturday night when they square off at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas for the WBA Interim Junior Welterweight Championship. My heart will be pulling for Erik Morales. While I would have rather seen him stay in retirement, he has chosen to fight again and I'm hoping to see him beat the odds. It will be an uphill battle for him.

Frank, Flores gloves seemed to be used a lot in the 40's and 50's. I'd like to get a pair Flores sparring gloves, i often look on ebay, i'm in my late 40's and still go to the gym and do a bit of sparring, i run most mornings there's nothing like it....

Cholo wrote:Frank, Flores gloves seemed to be used a lot in the 40's and 50's. I'd like to get a pair Flores sparring gloves, i often look on ebay, i'm in my late 40's and still go to the gym and do a bit of sparring, i run most mornings there's nothing like it....

Paul, they might be hard to find since they are not made anymore, don't know where you may be able to find some...

Cholo wrote:Ric, Flores gloves were they known as puncher's gloves, horse hair padding? when i started out in the amatuer's many years ago they used Bailey gloves alot they were padded with horse hair, they hurt......LOL

Cholo, that's right! I remember that they did have the old horse hair padding as opposed to the foam used today.
The gloves molded to my hands but they were like rocks after I broke them in.

Cholo wrote:Frank, Flores gloves seemed to be used a lot in the 40's and 50's. I'd like to get a pair Flores sparring gloves, i often look on ebay, i'm in my late 40's and still go to the gym and do a bit of sparring, i run most mornings there's nothing like it....

Hey Cholo, do you live in Southern Cal?

Randyman wrote:Erik Morales vs Marcos Maidana
MGM Grand, Las Vegas, Nevada
Interim WBA Junior Light Welterweight Title
Golden boy Promotions
HBO Boxing
April 9, 2011

Erik Morales of Mexico, was one of the most exciting fighters of his era and certainly ranked high on anyone's pound for pound list but it has been a while. Morales is three for three in his comeback that began last year with a win over Jose Alfaro in March of 2010, winning a 12 round unanimous decision. He followed up with two more wins; stopping Willie Limond in September and a unanimous decision win in December over Francisco Lorenzo. Mediocre opponents at best but a good starting point for an aging former champion. Still, it's hard to tell how much Morales has left in the tank.

Morales, one half of one of boxing's greatest trilogy, Marco Antonio Barrera being the other half, was as exciting as it gets. His big heart and reputation for throwing caution to the wind made him a crowd pleaser and a fan favorite. Nearing the end of his career he beat Manny Pacquiao in their first fight but lost the last two, getting stopped in both fights.

Morales fought the best fighters of his era, including; Daniel Zaragoza, Wayne McCullough, Kevin Kelly, Junior Jones, Paulie Ayala, Hector Acero Sanchez, Jesus Chavez and Carlos Hernandez. His last fight before retiring was a losing effort, in 1997, against WBC Lightweight champion David Diaz of Chicago (Diaz would lose the title to Manny Pacquiao the following year). The only fighter missing from his resume is the great Juan Manuel Marquez. I don't know why that fight never happened.

Argentinian boxer Marcos Maidana, at 27 and seven years younger than Morales, appears to be at his peak right now. Maidana is coming off a close and exciting loss to Amir Khan last December. Like Erik Morales, and like every other Argentinian fighter that I have ever seen, there is no shortage of courage and heart in this fighter. He proved that in his fight last year with Victor Ortiz, coming back after being knocked down three times in the fight and getting the worst of it before taking control of the fight and severely testing Ortiz' resolve as a fighter, forcing him to quit in the 6th round. Over all, Maidana has not fought the same quality of fighters that Morales has fought.

Morales will certainly have his hands full this Saturday night when they square off at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas for the WBA Interim Junior Welterweight Championship. My heart will be pulling for Erik Morales. While I would have rather seen him stay in retirement, he has chosen to fight again and I'm hoping to see him beat the odds. It will be an uphill battle for him.

I agree, Randy. I'd have preferred to see Morales to stay retired, but I wish him the best in this tough fight.
Win or lose, Maidana is a rough customer. I shall always respect Maidana for pulling Victor Ortiz covers, exposing cowardice in relation to a prizefighter's nature.
I'm sorry if people think I'm being a little tough in my opinion of Ortiz being weak of heart. But what else do you call it? The ring isn't a school yard.
He is being paid $thousands to perform. Quitting is not an option.

The only fighter missing from his resume (Erik Morales resume) is the great Juan Manuel Marquez. I don't know why that fight never happened.
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Good question. Another name missing from Marquez's record, aside from Morales, is Marco Antonio Barrera. Both seemed to skip over Marquez.
Guess who fought them all, and more than once? The best of them all, Manny Pacquiao! Manny has avoided nobody, young or old.
Can't say that about all of the Mexican's stars of the time, or the American's. The Filippino kid has out done them all.

Rick Farris wrote:The only fighter missing from his resume (Erik Morales resume) is the great Juan Manuel Marquez. I don't know why that fight never happened.
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Good question. Another name missing from Marquez's record, aside from Morales, is Marco Antonio Barrera. Both seemed to skip over Marquez.
Guess who fought them all, and more than once? The best of them all, Manny Pacquiao! Manny has avoided nobody, young or old.
Can't say that about all of the Mexican's stars of the time, or the American's. The Filippino kid has out done them all.

Juan Manuel Marquez and Marco Antonio Barrera fought on March 17, 2007. Marquez won a 12 round decision.

Man, I'm still ticked off about the beating of a San Francisco giant fan last week by some cowardly punks. I hope they catch them. the man was beaten in front of his kids. I hope they get the same treatment by the cops, on video so we can all applaud!

I love going to the Dodger stadium. Never had a problem. These were not real Dodger fans. Cowardly bastids!

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

Ric wrote:How about this photo of Eddie Machen and Mike DeJohn from this fight?

Notice the Flores gloves?...Don't make anymore since Ray Flores died...

Flores boxing gloves . . .

In 1971 Mel Epstein had Ray Flores make a pair of 14oz. training gloves for me.
Flores used to have a small shop in his basement in Northen Cal and made the best gloves I've worn.
I recall that Mando Ramos insisted on Flores gloves whenever he fought in L.A.
I remember when I quit boxing, Mel called me one day and asked if he could have my training gloves back.
I brought the gloves to Mel and he said he wanted them for a young prospect he was training.
I'm not certain, but that prospect might have been Randy De La O?

If they were black than they were the same gloves. Gary Pittman and I both used those gloves when we sparred. I later bought myself a pair of Ortiz gloves from the luggage shop downstairs. hadn't thought of those gloves in years. :)

Randy, I also am ticked off at the individual or individuals who gave the San Francisco Giants fan a terrible beating in the vicinity of Dodger Stadium. That type of thuggery shouldn't be tolerated.

Both Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales seem to want to go the same route as Evander Holyfield, continuing their careers even when they are a mere shell of their former selves. I wish them the best, such a move is tempting fate to a great degree.

- Chuck Johnston

Randyman wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:The only fighter missing from his resume (Erik Morales resume) is the great Juan Manuel Marquez. I don't know why that fight never happened.
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Good question. Another name missing from Marquez's record, aside from Morales, is Marco Antonio Barrera. Both seemed to skip over Marquez.
Guess who fought them all, and more than once? The best of them all, Manny Pacquiao! Manny has avoided nobody, young or old.
Can't say that about all of the Mexican's stars of the time, or the American's. The Filippino kid has out done them all.

Juan Manuel Marquez and Marco Antonio Barrera fought on March 17, 2007. Marquez won a 12 round decision.

And were they in their prime? Was this when Marquez and boxing people really sought the match? Or was it a case of protecting a great fighter, Barrera, when he was at his best? Barrera is one of my favorites, more so than Morales, but a match with Marquez was avoided. Pac has never avoided a great fighter, young or old. Pacquaio is a greater fighter than those since Duran. It's recorded history, that is still unfolding. Mosely is much more dangerous an opponent for Pac than Marquez would be today. JMM would be a short workout for Pacquaio today. Mosely has more to offer.

Randyman wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote: Notice the Flores gloves?...Don't make anymore since Ray Flores died...

Flores boxing gloves . . .

In 1971 Mel Epstein had Ray Flores make a pair of 14oz. training gloves for me.
Flores used to have a small shop in his basement in Northen Cal and made the best gloves I've worn.
I recall that Mando Ramos insisted on Flores gloves whenever he fought in L.A.
I remember when I quit boxing, Mel called me one day and asked if he could have my training gloves back.
I brought the gloves to Mel and he said he wanted them for a young prospect he was training.
I'm not certain, but that prospect might have been Randy De La O?

If they were black than they were the same gloves. Gary Pittman and I both used those gloves when we sparred. I later bought myself a pair of Ortiz gloves from the luggage shop downstairs. hadn't thought of those gloves in years. :)

They were black, 14oz. Flores training gloves.
Same ones, I'm certain.

I heard a great little story about Flores from somebody who knew him.
I'll share it in part, a little later. Good history.

Rick Farris wrote:

Cholo wrote:Ric, Flores gloves were they known as puncher's gloves, horse hair padding? when i started out in the amatuer's many years ago they used Bailey gloves alot they were padded with horse hair, they hurt......LOL

Cholo, that's right! I remember that they did have the old horse hair padding as opposed to the foam used today.
The gloves molded to my hands but they were like rocks after I broke them in.

When my father broke out the old 16 ozs back during the 60's,us kids in the neighborhood would put them on. We had a hell of a time just holding up our arms for a minute or so.
Our hands were not taped either. We learned just how to hold our stance and how to shift our weight while throwing jabs only. We hit a heavy bag hanging up in the garage, but my friends and I could only last a few minutes. We were amazed at the weight. I thought my father was the strongest man in the world. I later found out that they were training gloves and he used lighter gloves in the ring- which we had also.
They were creased in all the right places beforehand as they were used by my father.
We pretty much wore out the old training gloves over time-one split on the side. I was amazed to see horse hair like you said. If felt like heavy soggy straw to me (I was a kid- what the heck did I know). But I do remember them weighing a ton until I was about 16 yrs old.You guys brought back wonderful memories for me with this subject -Thank You.

Randyman wrote:Man, I'm still ticked off about the beating of a San Francisco giant fan last week by some cowardly punks. I hope they catch them. the man was beaten in front of his kids. I hope they get the same treatment by the cops, on video so we can all applaud!

I love going to the Dodger stadium. Never had a problem. These were not real Dodger fans. Cowardly bastids!

This incident got good coverage here in New York papers and TV news.
Enough to warrant a full page article about security measures at our New York area stadiums as well. Hope they get these rat bastids too.

Rick Farris wrote:

Cholo wrote:Frank, Flores gloves seemed to be used a lot in the 40's and 50's. I'd like to get a pair Flores sparring gloves, i often look on ebay, i'm in my late 40's and still go to the gym and do a bit of sparring, i run most mornings there's nothing like it....

Hey Cholo, do you live in Southern Cal?

Rick, I wish......i live in the not so sunny uk.

Rick Farris wrote:The only fighter missing from his resume (Erik Morales resume) is the great Juan Manuel Marquez. I don't know why that fight never happened.
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Good question. Another name missing from Marquez's record, aside from Morales, is Marco Antonio Barrera. Both seemed to skip over Marquez.
Guess who fought them all, and more than once? The best of them all, Manny Pacquiao! Manny has avoided nobody, young or old.
Can't say that about all of the Mexican's stars of the time, or the American's. The Filippino kid has out done them all.

Rick, Do you think Manny Pacquiao would have beaten Roberto Duran, Duran was one hell of a ring technician, and heavy handed, my all-time favourite "Hands Of Stone".

Cnorkusjr, I read your father defeated Danny Nardico twice, wasn't it Nardico who ended Jake Lamotta's career?

Cholo wrote:Cnorkusjr, I read your father defeated Danny Nardico twice, wasn't it Nardico who ended Jake Lamotta's career?

Yes, Pretty much but you have to take things into consideration.
When they fought Lamotta was 31 with a zillion tough fights under his belt, where Danny was a rising star at 25. Danny knocked down Jake,supposedly his only knockdown in his career, and his corner stopped the onslaught wisely in the ring between Rds 8-9.
Jake did come back 2 years later in 1954 to win 2, lose 1 but he was just a shell of who and what he was. I think it had to do with getting some money in his pocket as he was virtually broke at the time.

Danny moved on to bigger and better things. In 1954, Danny had moved up to heavy after fighting as a lt-Heavy top contender. He was promised a shot at Marciano if he could get by my father. Weill and the IBC sent my father down to Fla. to test Danny for Marciano.
Danny lost a ferocious battle in Jan 1954. My father returned to New York and met with Rocky and Weill and said that Rocky would kill him in the ring,and though he keeps coming at you,his punches dont carry the weight of a full heavy. Danny was better staying at Lt-Heavy and going after Moore or Maxim.

My father and Danny were about the same age.
Because of the national calling for a rematch-my father fought Danny again in March (2 months later). My father met Danny after that fight and my father said that Danny took a bad beating from my dad in the first fight that that my father felt Danny wasnt the same.
Like Jake, Danny fought 3 more times and got a pair of wins and a lose and hung them up.

I talked to my father about fighters moving up in weight over the years.
He mentioned that if a fighter is a young lad starting out and he grows "naturally" into a heavier weight class, thats fine. An example of that would be Willie Pastrano.

But many fighters see bigger paydays as weight classes jump. Many fighters will be (my fathers slang) un-natural and have a very hard time adjusting even if its 5-6 lbs.
My father said lighter weights bantam-lights might be able to handle the frame better,but the speed of punching is slower.
Rick and Randy- Do you agree with that ?
The heavier weights definitly takes its toll in punches and a fighter cant handle the frame weight either,making him exhausted over 10 rounds.Some have done it quite successfully my father went on, but most cant handle the jump, especially if they were fighting at the lower weight for a great deal of time.

Charlie thanks for the reply, it's great talking to you fella's on this site, you know your stuff....

Adamek vs McBride tonight in Newark NJ. Didnt check TV listings yet-hopefully on HBO or Showtime or ESPN TV.
$53 tickets available for $20 through NJ Boxing Hall of Fame.
Who said fights are affordable nowadays.