Froch/Kessler and undercard RBR.

[Emil]

With the arguments presented in this thread you could also argue that in many cases having Ward fighting a Chinese fighter in China could also be a neutral venue...

The Chinese people would most definitely root for the Chinese fighter. Very different than the AC crowd rooting for Ward.

Awful example.

Well you would have to know your China before you speak.....Actually with the arguments presented in this thread maybe Ward could even be the home fighter then....

[dajuggernaut]

Ward's home is Oakland. To suggest a fight in China could be a home fight is completely false. Show me one quote that someone said in this thread that even suggests that line of thinking.

Just respond with the quote, I feel you're going to try to change the subject.

[Emil]

Well someone mentioned that the different states in the US are more different than say England and Ukraine or England and Greece. And it is not all about the crowd. Did the Rolling Stones play a concert in China when the crowd was like 99% foreigners?

[dajuggernaut]

Well someone mentioned that the different states in the US are more different than say England and Ukraine or England and Greece. And it is not all about the crowd. Did the Rolling Stones play a concert in China when the crowd was like 99% foreigners?

Differency in states means Ward could have a home fight in China?

What does a concert have to do with anything? It's not an event pitting two men/teams against one another with rooting interest.

Each post gets more foolish.

[Emil]

Well someone mentioned that the different states in the US are more different than say England and Ukraine or England and Greece. And it is not all about the crowd. Did the Rolling Stones play a concert in China when the crowd was like 99% foreigners?

Differency in states means Ward could have a home fight in China?

What does a concert have to do with anything? It's not an event pitting two men/teams against one another with rooting interest.

Each post gets more foolish.

I just say same arguments could be made for China and oher countries as well following the logic in this tread. Your arguments for a neutral fight is the distance and the fans, right? So ward fighting in China against a chinese could be a neutral venue...
I don't know you tell me, would ward have a home fight in China if there wold be only americans in the crowd cheering for ward?
I am not arguing about home fight as his home town or home state. My issue is neutral venue and not "home town". But it seems many here think it is a bigger thing travelling in America than to other countries.

[dajuggernaut]

Well someone mentioned that the different states in the US are more different than say England and Ukraine or England and Greece. And it is not all about the crowd. Did the Rolling Stones play a concert in China when the crowd was like 99% foreigners?

Differency in states means Ward could have a home fight in China?

What does a concert have to do with anything? It's not an event pitting two men/teams against one another with rooting interest.

Each post gets more foolish.

I just say same arguments could be made for China and oher countries as well following the logic in this tread. Your arguments for a neutral fight is the distance and the fans, right? So ward fighting in China against a chinese could be a neutral venue...
I don't know you tell me, would ward have a home fight in China if there wold be only americans in the crowd cheering for ward?
I am not arguing about home fight as his home town or home state. My issue is neutral venue and not "home town". But it seems many here think it is a bigger thing travelling in America than to other countries.

What logic are you talking about?

I asked you to give me a direct quote from that thread and you fired back with a statement made by you.

It would not be a neutral venue because the Chinese fighter would travel less than Ward AND have crowd support. Doesn't sound neutral to me. As far as that fight in China having American fans? That's so stupid, something like that would never happen.

I don't know if you're exaggerating for effect or you're just really dumb.

[dajuggernaut]

I made a Greek Salad yesterday with Romaine and Iceberg lettuce, tomato, salami, ham, a small tub of crumbled Feta, olive oil, veg oil, red wine vinegar, parm. ch., and some herbs and spices. It very well may have been the best thing I have ever tasted.

Besides Thurman's sperm.

[Emil]

It's not that one is bigger, you're too stuck on that issue, all I'm saying is that all of those things don't make it a home fight for Ward, no matter how you spin it. He was not "at home" in effing New Jersey!

If I go to fights in Detroit, and one guy is from Miami, Florida, and the other is from London, England, I have no loyalty to either guy, I'm watching for entertainment, and I don't see most Americans doing the same. Maybe if the guy was from Michigan I would feel like he was "one of us," but it doesn't cross state boundaries, something I don't expect other cultures to have a full grasp of.

If the crowd isn't his home crowd, and the fighter doesn't feel at home, what point is it in saying it's a home fight?

Having to fly for 3,000 effing miles sure as hell seems like a lot for a "home fight."

I'm sure Ward would feel right at home in Alaska, right? Good ol' red, white, and blue!

And where do we stop? Puerto Rico, The Virgin Islands, Guam? You tell me when it stops being a home fight, because I guess I just know fvck all about anything.

Just talking about California and New Jersey and Nottingham England and New Jersey. The whole super six was pushed to be USA against Europe. Froch fought Taylor on american soil, but apparently neutral venue cause it sure wasn´t Taylors home town and you had the crowd chanting USA USA. I bet Ward will feel more comfortable and familiar having a fight in Atlantic city, USA, his home country than fighting abroad, hence him fighting Froch in Atlantic city is not a neutral venue. Are you saying that in the olympics you only cheer for your countrymen that are from your own state?

[Emil]

I asked you to give me a direct quote from that thread and you fired back with a statement made by you.

Here is a quote for you, similar to what I said:

Ward fighting on the east coast of the USA is more similar to Froch fighting in Athens or the eastern Ukraine. And that is a better comparison, European Union to USA, because the people of the USA are very different from coast to coast and north to south.

It would not be a neutral venue because the Chinese fighter would travel less than Ward AND have crowd support. Doesn't sound neutral to me. As far as that fight in China having American fans? That's so stupid, something like that would never happen. I don't know if you're exaggerating for effect or you're just really dumb.

Just like Froch travelled further than Ward or? A fight in China could have american fans, it´s nothing stupid about that, there could probably be more american fans in let´s say Shanghai than what Ward attracts in his hometown. Though it wouldn´t be neutral to me. Do you think only chinese lives in China? There are even non-chinese members of this forum who lives or have lived in China.

[Emil]

Why do you make it a point to get ill with anyone who disagrees with you?

That´s just him. The personality shines through.

[CheckHook]

Absolutely in love with the idea that Ward fighting on the east coast is the same as Froch fighting in Ukraine!! This thread is fuckin awesome....

[dajuggernaut]

I asked you to give me a direct quote from that thread and you fired back with a statement made by you.

Here is a quote for you, similar to what I said:

Ward fighting on the east coast of the USA is more similar to Froch fighting in Athens or the eastern Ukraine. And that is a better comparison, European Union to USA, because the people of the USA are very different from coast to coast and north to south.

It would not be a neutral venue because the Chinese fighter would travel less than Ward AND have crowd support. Doesn't sound neutral to me. As far as that fight in China having American fans? That's so stupid, something like that would never happen. I don't know if you're exaggerating for effect or you're just really dumb.

Just like Froch travelled further than Ward or? A fight in China could have american fans, it´s nothing stupid about that, there could probably be more american fans in let´s say Shanghai than what Ward attracts in his hometown. Though it wouldn´t be neutral to me. Do you think only chinese lives in China? There are even non-chinese members of this forum who lives or have lived in China.

There are 110,000 Americans in the whole country of China. You have to figure much much less in Shanghai.

400k in Oakland.

He wouldn't be supported more in China than in Oakland.

[dajuggernaut]

Froch has fought in Atlantic City more times than Ward. If anything he should feel more comfortable there.

[dajuggernaut]

I've never been to New Jersey, but apparently I would feel right at home there.

Yeah, I'm supposed to feel right at home anywhere because its America.

[dajuggernaut]

http://www.overseasdigest.com/amcit_nu2.htm

As of 1999, there were 2,382 Americans in Shanghai. Even if every single one was a Ward fan and went to his fight in Shanghai they wouldn't come close to his crowds in Oakland. Even if that population doubled in 13 years and they were all Ward fans they still wouldn't be as much as a typical Oakland Ward crowd.

Bad example.

[dajuggernaut]

I posted this is another thread...

A home fight in my opinion is judged to be where it's a short proximity to the fighters home and/or having the crowd behind him. Some kind of mix between both that can be judged on a case to case basis. Some familiarity that makes the fighter feel comfortable. After-all, home and comfort go hand in hand.

Atlantic City is a 5.5 hour flight from Ward's home. 3000 miles and 3 time zones away. Before the Super Six final, Ward has never fought there (in comparison Froch has, he's technically more familiar with AC in terms of fighting there) I'm not sure Ward's ever been there. It's an unfamiliar place and he didn't have any noticeable crowd support. Doesn't sound too comfortable to me.

Froch can fight anywhere in England against a foreigner and have the crowd. Kessler in Denmark, Abraham in Germany etc. That's comfort. The United States doesn't work like that. They are the expection to the rule because of how big we are, how many different kinds of people we have, and frankly because we don't care about boxing. I could see a point if Ward have droves of rabid fans that made the trip. If they did, they sure were quiet.

Yes, it was fought in Ward's home country, but it was not a home fight. There is a difference. Atlantic City is not his backyard. I'm from Chicago, I don't consider Wyoming to be my backyard, even in comparison to a foreigner. To think that he feels comfortable or at home ANYWHERE in the United States is laughable. Besides the Midwest I've been to Los Angeles and Mobile, Alabama. There were both completely different worlds to me.

That's the equivalent of saying Manny Pacquiao went on the road to beat Shane Mosley in Vegas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/22739853

Froch "kind of" considers Vegas a neutral venue. Wonder his thoughts on Atlantic City. Surely if he doesn't consider Vegas a home fight for Ward, he doesn't consider Atlantic City (2500+ miles from Vegas) a home fight either. Thus, neutral fight in AC.

Shanghai makes no sense, far away, and no crowd support.

[CheckHook]

In terms of diversity, the USA is actually rather lacking, especially for a country of its size, USA has a little more ethnic, cultural and linguistic diversity than the UK, which is a tiny nation in comparison. Spain has more diversity as a country than the whole of the USA.... Spain is a country within Europe, by the way. It's actually laughable to hear you guys talk about how diverse America is and how its 'unlike any other place' when talking about its diversity.

If you want to argue that Ward didn't have home advantage, fine, that is a boxing argument and I have long given up on that one, but please stop talking about the cultural diversity of America like it is something that the rest of the world can't comprehend, its embarrassing how naïve you guys are.

[dajuggernaut]

The boxing argument goes hand in hand with the diversity argument, you can't abandon half of the argument.

[CheckHook]

The boxing argument goes hand in hand with the diversity argument, you can't abandon half of the argument.

Everything I wanted to say about the perceived cultural diversity of America, by some people in this thread, can be found in my previous post.

[CheckHook]

Get over yourself dude. You obviously know very little about the true diversity here and are just spouting bullshit to sound smart.

It's actually laughable the way everyone tries to put Americans down like we know nothing, when it's you who are on the outside looking in.

Explain your definition of 'true diversity' since it obviously differs from popular/ global consensus.

I'm not sure what the whole 'get over yourself' comment is about either, it's clearly you who is getting pissy and defensive, hence why you are adopting the whole 'us against them' attitude.... I don't have a problem with Americans or America, I have a problem with the fact that you genuinely believe that America is, in your own words, 'unlike any other place' in terms of its diversity. The sad thing is that you actually believe that anyone who would question that assertion is in some way up their own ass or anti American.

As far as the whole diversity debate goes, here's a list of countries ranked by ethnic and cultural diversity, you might want to amend wiki so USA is #1 instead of #85 since it's clear from this thread they done got it wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... sity_level

[SNG]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... sity_level

Interesting list, I would have imagined a lot of those countries to be quite poor in terms of diversity, shows what I know.

[dajuggernaut]

Get over yourself dude. You obviously know very little about the true diversity here and are just spouting bullshit to try and sound smart.

It's actually laughable the way everyone tries to put Americans down like we know nothing, when it's all of you who are on the outside looking in.

Anyways, I was trying to be done with this nonsense a long time ago, but obviously the smart guys can't let it go. Oh well, adios to this thread fo-evah!

They're still mad about the revolutionary war.

[dajuggernaut]

Get over yourself dude. You obviously know very little about the true diversity here and are just spouting bullshit to sound smart.

It's actually laughable the way everyone tries to put Americans down like we know nothing, when it's you who are on the outside looking in.

Explain your definition of 'true diversity' since it obviously differs from popular/ global consensus.

I'm not sure what the whole 'get over yourself' comment is about either, it's clearly you who is getting pissy and defensive, hence why you are adopting the whole 'us against them' attitude.... I don't have a problem with Americans or America, I have a problem with the fact that you genuinely believe that America is, in your own words, 'unlike any other place' in terms of its diversity. The sad thing is that you actually believe that anyone who would question that assertion is in some way up their own ass or anti American.

As far as the whole diversity debate goes, here's a list of countries ranked by ethnic and cultural diversity, you might want to amend wiki so USA is #1 instead of #85 since it's clear from this thread they done got it wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... sity_level

What does any of that have to do with Atlantic City being a home fight for Ward?

I know some of us got off-topic but we're able to tie it back into the main point. Tie this back into the main point.

And could that guy who said Ward in China could be considered a home fight come back to posting. Pure comedy.

[Emil]

I asked you to give me a direct quote from that thread and you fired back with a statement made by you.

Here is a quote for you, similar to what I said:

Ward fighting on the east coast of the USA is more similar to Froch fighting in Athens or the eastern Ukraine. And that is a better comparison, European Union to USA, because the people of the USA are very different from coast to coast and north to south.

It would not be a neutral venue because the Chinese fighter would travel less than Ward AND have crowd support. Doesn't sound neutral to me. As far as that fight in China having American fans? That's so stupid, something like that would never happen. I don't know if you're exaggerating for effect or you're just really dumb.

Just like Froch travelled further than Ward or? A fight in China could have american fans, it´s nothing stupid about that, there could probably be more american fans in let´s say Shanghai than what Ward attracts in his hometown. Though it wouldn´t be neutral to me. Do you think only chinese lives in China? There are even non-chinese members of this forum who lives or have lived in China.

There are 110,000 Americans in the whole country of China. You have to figure much much less in Shanghai.

400k in Oakland.

He wouldn't be supported more in China than in Oakland.

You have cultural diversity in China too. I assume the ethnic violence in China reached the US news. It's all about who fights who and marketing. Boxing is not very big in China, but expat Americans would of course not support an american unless the american fighter is from their home state.

[Emil]

Get over yourself dude. You obviously know very little about the true diversity here and are just spouting bullshit to sound smart.

It's actually laughable the way everyone tries to put Americans down like we know nothing, when it's you who are on the outside looking in.

Explain your definition of 'true diversity' since it obviously differs from popular/ global consensus.

I'm not sure what the whole 'get over yourself' comment is about either, it's clearly you who is getting pissy and defensive, hence why you are adopting the whole 'us against them' attitude.... I don't have a problem with Americans or America, I have a problem with the fact that you genuinely believe that America is, in your own words, 'unlike any other place' in terms of its diversity. The sad thing is that you actually believe that anyone who would question that assertion is in some way up their own ass or anti American.

As far as the whole diversity debate goes, here's a list of countries ranked by ethnic and cultural diversity, you might want to amend wiki so USA is #1 instead of #85 since it's clear from this thread they done got it wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... sity_level

What does any of that have to do with Atlantic City being a home fight for Ward?

I know some of us got off-topic but we're able to tie it back into the main point. Tie this back into the main point.

And could that guy who said Ward in China could be considered a home fight come back to posting. Pure comedy.

Well it was posted in the same sentiment on the arguments you put out here that An american fighting a foreigner in america will be a neutral venue when the american is fighting outside of his home state.