BoxRec

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 15:09 Morris, not Fulton, fought Dempsey three times. Just switch names around. My point still stands. I explained the BEFORE AND AFTER the fights--- and clearly you want to say that these guys were "prime" when they fought Dempsey when magically afterwards they weren't. No, the decline was already beginning.

We all don't have a time machine. But I don't think you can name 5 men PRESENTLY 200 pounds who can beat Wilder, Fury or Joshua. If they can't do it, it's all the more difficult to imagine men 20, 30 pounds lighter doing it.

OK, well at least now you are being factually correct about Morris and not Fulton who fought Dempsey three times.
Morris had lost some DQ and newspaper decisions. Had not lost an official decision or been stopped in the previous 5 years to fighting Dempsey. Nobody was blowing him outlike Dempsey did.
Still makes absolutely no sense at all why you would say Fulton was past his prime when he fought Dempsey. None.

That there may not be three smaller guys right now who can beat Wilder, Fury and Joshua is not the point. They aren't Jack Dempsey.
Dempsey beat several fighters roughly the size of Wilder. If he could, it stands to reason that Marciano could.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 16:44 Norton was before Cojimar became a fan. Therefore, Povetkin was better than Norton. That is how it works for him. The sport got better when he became a fan.

The more frustrating thing is fat guys being too big for chiseled inshape guys with larger dimensions because of their flab.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 16:55

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 16:44 Norton was before Cojimar became a fan. Therefore, Povetkin was better than Norton. That is how it works for him. The sport got better when he became a fan.

The more frustrating thing is fat guys being too big for chiseled inshape guys with larger dimensions because of their flab.

Areola; Ruiz JR., Kownacki (yes Kownacki) to name a few. Too fat and too big are two entirely different things in my world.

You said you were done here.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 17:01 You said you were done here.

I can't help myself! I went back and watched some Norton highlights. I forgot why I liked him so much.

oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 16:58

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 16:55

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 16:44 Norton was before Cojimar became a fan. Therefore, Povetkin was better than Norton. That is how it works for him. The sport got better when he became a fan.

The more frustrating thing is fat guys being too big for chiseled inshape guys with larger dimensions because of their flab.

Areola; Ruiz JR., Kownacki (yes Kownacki) to name a few. Too fat and too big are two entirely different things in my world.

Well, you have fat povetkin bigger than Kenny when he is smaller everywhere but his gut.

My point is that it is not surprising boxing fans today think of Norton as being small for a heavyweight because by todays standards he is small as is Povetkin.

The top 10 contains Parker, Pulev, Ortiz, Whyte, Miller, Povetkin, Wilder, and Joshua among others. Aside from Povetkin these guys all seem bigger than Norton, or am I missing something?

As far as Povetkin troubling Joshua goes I'm struggling to see how we turn he devastating kayo loss into a positive for smaller fighters. Povetkin gave Joshua trouble for a few rounds and then Joshua knocked him out in devastating fashion.

As far as boxing getting better goes, back in the 1970s virtually all the top heavyweights were Americans. That suggests to me that boxing wasn't very popular in many parts of the world and much of the best talent wasn't being channeled into the sport. In more recent times we have had talented fighters emerge from all across the globe which to me seems like an indication that boxing is doing a better job of bringing in talent from around the world.

In the 70s if boxing had been banned everywhere except the United States you wouldn't really have seen any drop in talent at heavyweight which is odd because we know other countries can produce great athletes like Usain Bolt for example.

You're missing more than just something.

More and more American athletes who may have been fighters are NBA power forwards and football tight ends. The money disparity from the 70's has shrunk with current skyscraper salaries in those professional sports. Ergo less American athletes are opting for the sweet science.

Like what? Pulev for example was 240 in his last fight and looked to be in good physical shape. I think I can safely conclude that he is bigger than Norton and that his weight advantage is not just blubber.

Daniel Dubois was 239 in his last fight and again looked to be in good physical shape. Very little excess fat.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 18:52 Like what? Pulev for example was 240 in his last fight and looked to be in good physical shape. I think I can safely conclude that he is bigger than Norton and that his weight advantage is not just blubber.

Obviously most of the top heavy's are big and in shape. Whyte; AJ; Pulev; Wilder; etc. Always exceptions; Kownacki; Ruiz Jr, etc.

Whyte could probably come in lighter, but I think at 240 or so he would be in good physical shape.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2018, 19:01 Whyte could probably come in lighter, but I think at 240 or so he would be in good physical shape.

I couldn't argue with that.

What did people think of the Fury fight? Did Wilder help his case at all.

Case for what? Being the 'smaller' guy and scrapping out a draw with his power punching?

case for beating Marciano.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 01:47 What did people think of the Fury fight? Did Wilder help his case at all.

He helped Rocky's case.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 01:47 What did people think of the Fury fight? Did Wilder help his case at all.

Marciano and Fury are about as far apart in styles and size as you can get. Wilder proved he has a huge punch but can be outboxed. Marciano didn't outbox anyone.

The reason Wilder struggled was partly down to Fury's size, but more importantly his movement. He couldn't reach him most of the time. Against Marciano he wouldn't have the size or the movement issues, Wilder would be hitting an oncoming target.

Controversial wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 04:38

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 01:47 What did people think of the Fury fight? Did Wilder help his case at all.

Marciano and Fury are about as far apart in styles and size as you can get. Wilder proved he has a huge punch but can be outboxed. Marciano didn't outbox anyone.

The reason Wilder struggled was partly down to Fury's size, but more importantly his movement. He couldn't reach him most of the time. Against Marciano he wouldn't have the size or the movement issues, Wilder would be hitting an oncoming target.

x2.

Yes, I am sure that is how it would play out. Wilder would have no problem against a guy who throws about 3X as many punches as Fury.
The taller guy with the longer reach and the more than a 40 pound weight advantage could only get a draw. More compelling evidence how important the size "advantage" is.
Wilder is closer in weight to Marciano than he is to Fury.
Shouldn't Wilder move down to cruiserweight like all the other under 215 fighters in history would have done?
They simply can't compete with these talented big fighters.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 12:12 Yes, I am sure that is how it would play out. Wilder would have no problem against a guy who throws about 3X as many punches as Fury.
The taller guy with the longer reach and the more than a 40 pound weight advantage could only get a draw. More compelling evidence how important the size "advantage" is.
Wilder is closer in weight to Marciano than he is to Fury.
Shouldn't Wilder move down to cruiserweight like all the other under 215 fighters in history would have done?
They simply can't compete with these talented big fighters.

There are always exceptions.

oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 13:07

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 12:12 Yes, I am sure that is how it would play out. Wilder would have no problem against a guy who throws about 3X as many punches as Fury.
The taller guy with the longer reach and the more than a 40 pound weight advantage could only get a draw. More compelling evidence how important the size "advantage" is.
Wilder is closer in weight to Marciano than he is to Fury.
Shouldn't Wilder move down to cruiserweight like all the other under 215 fighters in history would have done?
They simply can't compete with these talented big fighters.

There are always exceptions.

Plus Fury and Wilder are pretty much the same height and have a similar reach, unlike Marciano

For all his size, Fury isn't a particularly big hitter and I think that made it difficult for him to really hurt or discourage wilder. A lot of these other big guys are much bigger hitters which could pose problems for Wilder. But we will have to wait and see what happens when and if he fights them.