BoxRec

As you say though Ben Ali was a top fighter, world rated at fly and bantam over 10 year span. I read an interview with Jesus Pimental once where he said that Ben Ali was his hardest fight. It seems they had a real tearup in San Antonio 1967. Does anyone know anything about that fight?

Rick Farris wrote:Question for Al Francis . . .

Hey Alan, back in the mid-60's I was dependent upon boxing mags, such as The Ring, Boxing Illustrated, and Boxing International for info on boxing in the British Isles.
I recall in one edition of Boxing Illustrated, there was a feature story on your dad, Alan Rudkin. Your dad had this boyish look, blond hair and was pictured in a fighting pose wearing the classic Lonsdale Belt. The story told of his growing up in Liverpool, and said he was a school mate of a couple of "The Beatles". To your knowledge was this true?
The Beatles were the biggest thing in the world when it came to rock music, and your dad was big in the world of professional boxing, a British champion and a world title challenger on top of his game.
In those days we couldn't watch your dad fight here in the U.S. There were no video tapes in those days or coverage of British boxing here (aside from Ali-Cooper). It would be a few years later before I'd see your dad when he was at the end of his career and came to L.A. to challenge Ruben Olivares. Watching him training at the Alexandria Hotel gave me my first look at this special fighter from England, and I would learn his talent the real deal.
Can you share anything about your dad's youth, his growing up in Liverpool, when he began to box and did he cross paths with The Beatles, etc. ?

I've just dug that write up out as it happens.
Dad wasn't really friends of the Beatles I'm sorry to say but he was a fan. The Liverpool scene was booming in the early - mid 60's with the Beatles, other bands such as Gerry and the Pacemakers and The Searchers and Liverpool football team. Dad with his boyish looks and Beatle haircut was part of that scene even though he was living in London, it was the Swinging 60's.
When he fought in Japan much was made of the Beatles angle and he was greeted like a pop star by young Japanese girls shouting Arran Ludkin (no offence intended).
He was a lifelong friend of Gerry Marsden who he went to school with. Gerry always credits dad with putting him on the road to showbiz. They boxed as kids and dad gave him a good hiding, after that he decided to pack the boxing in and pursue a musical career. John McNally of the Searchers was another good friend.
Nobody would of thought in his early years that dad would become a boxer. At about 5 or 6 he developed a limp and was found to be suffering from Perthis disease which was a disease to his hip. He spent about 18 months in hospital in all and was strapped down to a bed for much of that time. There was a time that it was thought he might not walk normally. He left hospital and spent the next year wearing calipers. On removal of the calipers the doctor wrote a note for the school saying "this boy should not take part in rough sports"
My grandad was always a big boxing fan and faced with his youngest son with his withered legs decided he needed strengthening up. He took him to the local boxing club (The Florence Institute). This was the change in dad's life, he was 10 and had spent most of his childhood only watching other kids playing football and running about. In the gym he felt at home and he said from the first time he got in the ring he was winner, "this must be my thing".

Frank/Rick, I've been watching the 1952 film The Ring, saw a clip of Keeny Teran sparring, those few seconds showed what a classy boxer Teran was. Also there is a clip of the Aragon/Salas fight, shows Art entering the ring at the Olympic, there's also a few seconds of Art, back to the ropes trading punches with Salas. The clips are near the end of the film when Art is fighting the character Tommy Kansas, so the Aragon/Salas grudge fight was filmed....

How many of you guys remember Terry Downes when he lived in the states He started his amateur career over there fought in the golden gloves & was even shortlisted for the Olympics until they realised he was British, he served in your marines on returning to UK he turned pro & went on to Fight Paul Pender for the title losing the first winning the second & losing the third.
For me the best fight I saw him was against Joey Giardello who he beat over 10 rounds,Terry an aggressive boxer used skill rather than brute force that night to beat a very tough boxer who even 3 years later was good enough to beat teak tough Dick Tiger for the light heavyweight title.
On 28Th May we are celebrating 50 years since that title win with a grand celebration night at the Thistle Hotel near Heathrow London UK, as Britain's oldest surviving world champion terry has never received any royal recognition for this or the unstinting charity work he has carried out during & after his career

AlFrancis wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:A Title win on the Road for Alan Rudkin . . .

Alan, in 1967, your dad once again left home and took a champion in his hometown. This time it was European champ, Mimoun Ben Ali.
Ben Ali had been around forever,had fought the best, and it was in his home country of Spain where he'd defend his title against your dad in a 15 rounder.
Your dad would win the European title that night. Although I never saw Ben Ali fight live, I was well aware of his career, he was always a top ten fighter.

That one actually went against Dad Rick. Dad lost on points in a shocker when it appeared to everybody but the judges he'd done enough to win. Dad's biggest battle it seems was against the referee that night.

Here's the write up from the Boxing Illustrated

RUDKIN ROBBED OF CROWN BY ALOADOF BARCELONA BULL!
By RICKY GERMAINE
TJARCELONA, Spain: Britain's Alan Rudkin, sporting
•*~* and talented bantam, has lost only one decisión in
hii career—and that (cióse enough for argument) to
world champion, Harada, in Tokyo. Rudkin lost, officially,
to Walter McGowan—but won the unanimous press verdict.
Earlier, a cut-eye caused a defeat by Cari Taylor,
but this was quickly avenged.
The 15-round points loss booked against Rudkin by
Mimum Ben Ali for the European crown can also be
discounted. After some inetficient, outrageously onesided
officiating by amateur, Robert Seidel, of Geneva,
Rudkin was robbed of victory. The way the fight was
conducted by portly Seidel left serious doubts as to socalled
Swiss neutrality.
Seidel's score kept the Barcelona bullring fans satisfied
for this early-hours scrap that was marred by too much
mauling. Maybe, both were too tired.
But the stiff-upperlip corps of British scribes were
unanimous that Rudkin, despite having to beat-off the
referee along with Ali, had done enough. None made it
even cióse enough for a hometowner.
There were no knockdowns and Ali, 26 going on 32,
acted craftily enough to suggest it was Rudkin who held.
Both were to blame—but Rudkin was consistently penalized.
It was not a great fight. The referee saw to that.
Whenever they carne cióse enough to see the whites of
the eyes Seidel ordered "break" or wrenched them apart
before Rudkin could work to the body.
Both were cut around the eyes, but as Rudkin—essentially
a clean fighter—tried to challenge like a champion
the irritating official tugged Rudkin's arms, slapped him
on the shoulder and wagged a warning finger under his
nose.
Rudkin also had to contend with the screeching crowd
who became frighteningly fanatic in their desire to see
Ben Ali revenge his defeat by Rudkin at Newcastle two
years ago. The British vice-consul, at ringside, offered
condolences. So did champion Johnny Pritchett who had
flown with Rudkin's supporters club. "If that's what happens
when you fight for a title in Europe, you can keep
it," snapped Pritchett.
There was no representativo present of Britain's Board
of Control—they are strongly represented on the EBU—
to raise a protest. Ben Ali has never lost to a foreigner
in Spain. Ñow we know why! He will always have the
reign in Spain.
Last Bell: Rudkin had planned a sunny week-end in
Spain with his wife and family. He collected a £1,800
purse and spouse, Kathy, said "Don't you daré spend a
penny here." They flew home immediately to make
British-Spanish relationships even more angry.
WHAT THEY SAID:
GEORGE WHITING (Evening Standard) "Rudkin
Beaten? Never! How can you win a fight when a fussy
referee apparently does not want you to fight?"
ALAN HUBBARD (United Newspapers) "Everyone—
including Rudkin—seemed to sense that Ali would win,
even though it was rank ring injustice. To English eyes
this verdict seemed a lot of Barcelona bull."
PETER MOSS (Daily Mail) "Rudkin was robbed . . .
obstructed by officials, harried by the referee, did more
scoring."
PETER WILSON (Daily Mirror) "Not only did I disagree
with the decisión . . . but I thought the handling
of the bout was outrageously one-sided."

Dad said it was the most hostile crowd he fought in front of, he could feel the hatred as he entered the ring. he also said that he looked over at the referee and he was trembling, seems he was worried about the crowd more than dad.

Ironically after that bad experience with Barcelona I am now married to a Barcelona girl, dad thought the world of her. lol

Alan, it's obvious I was confused by the final result of your dad's fight with Ben Ali, however, there is no doubt that he actually was the better man in the ring that night. Thanks for that great account of the battle. All of this info I'm getting today about your dad's career is great, and important to me. I like being familiar with the great bantams of that era and appreciate your help. It's creating a new appreciation of your father's place in boxing history.

Cholo wrote:Frank/Rick, I've been watching the 1952 film The Ring, saw a clip of Keeny Teran sparring, those few seconds showed what a classy boxer Teran was. Also there is a clip of the Aragon/Salas fight, shows Art entering the ring at the Olympic, there's also a few seconds of Art, back to the ropes trading punches with Salas. The clips are near the end of the film when Art is fighting the character Tommy Kansas, so the Aragon/Salas grudge fight was filmed....

Paul, it does seem like its Salas in those two clips, good eye Paul. Keeny was a classy fighter, like most of the Johnny Forbes trained fighters.

AlFrancis wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:Question for Al Francis . . .

Hey Alan, back in the mid-60's I was dependent upon boxing mags, such as The Ring, Boxing Illustrated, and Boxing International for info on boxing in the British Isles.
I recall in one edition of Boxing Illustrated, there was a feature story on your dad, Alan Rudkin. Your dad had this boyish look, blond hair and was pictured in a fighting pose wearing the classic Lonsdale Belt. The story told of his growing up in Liverpool, and said he was a school mate of a couple of "The Beatles". To your knowledge was this true?
The Beatles were the biggest thing in the world when it came to rock music, and your dad was big in the world of professional boxing, a British champion and a world title challenger on top of his game.
In those days we couldn't watch your dad fight here in the U.S. There were no video tapes in those days or coverage of British boxing here (aside from Ali-Cooper). It would be a few years later before I'd see your dad when he was at the end of his career and came to L.A. to challenge Ruben Olivares. Watching him training at the Alexandria Hotel gave me my first look at this special fighter from England, and I would learn his talent the real deal.
Can you share anything about your dad's youth, his growing up in Liverpool, when he began to box and did he cross paths with The Beatles, etc. ?

I've just dug that write up out as it happens.
Dad wasn't really friends of the Beatles I'm sorry to say but he was a fan. The Liverpool scene was booming in the early - mid 60's with the Beatles, other bands such as Gerry and the Pacemakers and The Searchers and Liverpool football team. Dad with his boyish looks and Beatle haircut was part of that scene even though he was living in London, it was the Swinging 60's.
When he fought in Japan much was made of the Beatles angle and he was greeted like a pop star by young Japanese girls shouting Arran Ludkin (no offence intended).
He was a lifelong friend of Gerry Marsden who he went to school with. Gerry always credits dad with putting him on the road to showbiz. They boxed as kids and dad gave him a good hiding, after that he decided to pack the boxing in and pursue a musical career. John McNally of the Searchers was another good friend.
Nobody would of thought in his early years that dad would become a boxer. At about 5 or 6 he developed a limp and was found to be suffering from Perthis disease which was a disease to his hip. He spent about 18 months in hospital in all and was strapped down to a bed for much of that time. There was a time that it was thought he might not walk normally. He left hospital and spent the next year wearing calipers. On removal of the calipers the doctor wrote a note for the school saying "this boy should not take part in rough sports"
My grandad was always a big boxing fan and faced with his youngest son with his withered legs decided he needed strengthening up. He took him to the local boxing club (The Florence Institute). This was the change in dad's life, he was 10 and had spent most of his childhood only watching other kids playing football and running about. In the gym he felt at home and he said from the first time he got in the ring he was winner, "this must be my thing".

Great story! I remember Gerry and the Pacemakers. Great history, thank you!

Gerry and the Pacemakers (1965) - "You'll Never Walk Alone"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7zWtQagdMY

Both the band and Alan Rudkin were on top of the world.
This was around the time Rudkin fought Harada for the bantamweight title.

telboy66 wrote:How many of you guys remember Terry Downes when he lived in the states He started his amateur career over there fought in the golden gloves & was even shortlisted for the Olympics until they realised he was British, he served in your marines on returning to UK he turned pro & went on to Fight Paul Pender for the title losing the first winning the second & losing the third.
For me the best fight I saw him was against Joey Giardello who he beat over 10 rounds,Terry an aggressive boxer used skill rather than brute force that night to beat a very tough boxer who even 3 years later was good enough to beat teak tough Dick Tiger for the light heavyweight title.
On 28Th May we are celebrating 50 years since that title win with a grand celebration night at the Thistle Hotel near Heathrow London UK, as Britain's oldest surviving world champion terry has never received any royal recognition for this or the unstinting charity work he has carried out during & after his career

tell . . . I had no idea that Downes lived in the States and served in our Marine Corps.
I like to learn something new everyday, thanks. I should know this.

kikibalt wrote:

Cholo wrote:Frank/Rick, I've been watching the 1952 film The Ring, saw a clip of Keeny Teran sparring, those few seconds showed what a classy boxer Teran was. Also there is a clip of the Aragon/Salas fight, shows Art entering the ring at the Olympic, there's also a few seconds of Art, back to the ropes trading punches with Salas. The clips are near the end of the film when Art is fighting the character Tommy Kansas, so the Aragon/Salas grudge fight was filmed....

Paul, it does seem like its Salas in those two clips, good eye Paul. Keeny was a classy fighter, like most of the Johnny Forbes trained fighters.

Paul, I second Frank's comment, "good eye" spotting Salas!
Like you, that little clip of Keeny Teran was the first I ever saw of him.
As Frank pointed out, Johnny Forbes' boxers were all well schooled, extreme talent.
I wish I could have seen what Frank did in those days, but I was born the year "The Ring" was filmed.

Yes Rick he went live with his sister who I believe was married to an American, she was involved in a serious car crash & lost an arm that's when Terry moved to The states.I don't know his amateur record over there but it must have been impressive to be considered good enough for Olympic selection

Rick Farris wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

Cholo wrote:Frank/Rick, I've been watching the 1952 film The Ring, saw a clip of Keeny Teran sparring, those few seconds showed what a classy boxer Teran was. Also there is a clip of the Aragon/Salas fight, shows Art entering the ring at the Olympic, there's also a few seconds of Art, back to the ropes trading punches with Salas. The clips are near the end of the film when Art is fighting the character Tommy Kansas, so the Aragon/Salas grudge fight was filmed....

Paul, it does seem like its Salas in those two clips, good eye Paul. Keeny was a classy fighter, like most of the Johnny Forbes trained fighters.

Paul, I second Frank's comment, "good eye" spotting Salas!
Like you, that little clip of Keeny Teran was the first I ever saw of him.
As Frank pointed out, Johnny Forbes' boxers were all well schooled, extreme talent.
I wish I could have seen what Frank did in those days, but I was born the year "The Ring" was filmed.

Rick, I think i'm living in the wrong era, i'd loved to have lived in the L.A. area during Frank's time, my dad's aunt moved to Los Angeles in the early 50's from the U.K., i think she lived in the Beverly Hills area.....

telboy66 wrote:Yes Rick he went live with his sister who I believe was married to an American, she was involved in a serious car crash & lost an arm that's when Terry moved to The states.I don't know his amateur record over there but it must have been impressive to be considered good enough for Olympic selection

Thanks, tell.

Rick Farris wrote:Gerry and the Pacemakers (1965) - "You'll Never Walk Alone"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7zWtQagdMY

Both the band and Alan Rudkin were on top of the world.
This was around the time Rudkin fought Harada for the bantamweight title.

Thanks for posting that Rick, it makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. I don't know if you know but that song by Gerry was adopted by the Liverpool football club fans as our anthem. It is a very emotional song for us, Here is a clip of the fans singing it, see how powerful it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I_crD6O ... re=related

As it happens Gerry was on tour in Australia only last month and we arranged for him to meet Lionel Rose at one of his concerts. Gerry dedicated a song that night to Dad and Lionel. I believe it was a very emotional moment for Lionel.

Paul, a short story I wrote about going to the fights in 1951. The guys here read it when I first posted it, not sure if you have. either way I hope you enjoy it.

Going To The Fights...1951
By Frank "kiki" Baltazar

Eddie Gomez was watching a boxing match on a nineteen inch TV when his dad, Rudy, came in the house and told Eddie.
“Eddie, look what I have here”
“Pops, did you get some tickets for the title fight?”
Eddie had been bugging his pop to take him to see the Art Argon vs Jimmy Carter lightweight title fight at the Olympic Auditorium for some time, his pop thought that Eddie; been twelve years old was to young to go to the fights.
“Yes, Eddie, I bought four tickets, your uncles, Tony and Ray, will be going with us. Now I hope your mom doesn't get mad at me, she too thinks you are to young to go to the fights”.
Eddie's mom, Lupe, was not too crazy to see Eddie going to the fights, but she did agree with Rudy; that their son would be disappointed if he was not allowed to go with his pop and uncles, so she gave her okay for Eddie to go.

Eddie couldn't wait to find his best friend, Cheno Diaz, to tell him the good news. He found Cheno tending his two cows and one goat at a nearby pasture.
“Cheno, my pops is taking me to see the Aragon and Carter title fight”,
"Gee Eddie, you are lucky, I wish I could go”.
“I'll ask my pop if he can get another ticket for you. Cheno, you think your mom and pops would let you go?”.
“I'll ask them” said Cheno.,
Eddie ask his pop if he could get a ticket for Cheno.
“Yes, I'm sure I can get one, Eddie, you tell Cheno, that if his mom and pop say its okay for him to go; we'll take him with us”.
Next day in school, Eddie told Cheno the good news.
“Cheno, my pops said that he'll get you a ticket if your mom and pop say that's its okay for you to go”.
“Eddie, mom and pop said I could go as long as your father was going, they trust your father, but not your uncle Ray, they say he is crazy, that he himself will get into a fight at the fights”.
“Yeah, uncle Ray is a bit wild, especially when he is drinking beer, but pops won't let him drink too much, he'll be okay”.

Two weeks later, they all piled into Rudy's 1946 Dodge and headed west from Simons on Washington Boulevard. Eddie and Cheno were so excited that they couldn't sit still and it was starting to bug uncle Ray.
“If you kids don't sit still, we are going to stop and drop you off here; and you are going to have to wait for us to pick you up after the fights” said uncle Ray.
“Leave them alone Ray, they are just excited to be going to the fights, after all, its their first time to see boxing live. You remember when you went for the first time and you got all crazy on us?, wanting to fight everybody there” said uncle Tony.
“Yeah, but I was drunk; and let me remind you that I was doing okay until that big guy cold-cock me and knocked me on my ass” uncle Ray laughed.

The area was so pack that they had to park 3 blocks away. Eddie and Cheno were shadow boxing as they walked up 18th Avenue.
“Hey Eddie, Cheno, you two want to become fighters, because if you do, I'll train you guys” said uncle Ray.
“Ray, what the hell do you know about training fighters? asked Rudy.
“Hey, Rudy, I have fighting experience”
“Yes, you do but, its street fighting experience, an I don't think you ever won a fight”
“At least I've never been ko, always finish on my feet” laughed Ray.

As the group approached the front entrance of the Olympic, they started seeing movie and boxing celebrities hanging around the sidewalk of Grand Avenue.
“Cheno! There's John Wayne and Pedro Armendariz” said the excitable Eddie
“And over there is Rosemary Cooney and her husband Jose Ferrer” said uncle Tony
“I see Tommy Campbell, Frankie Muche, Bob Murphy, Enrique Bolanos and Freddie Babe Herman over there talking to two men” said Cheno
“That's Cal Eaton and Babe McCoy they are talking too, they are probably talking about upcoming fights” said Rudy
Before entering the Olympic, they all bought the Knockout program from Speedy Dado. Eddie and Cheno started getting autographs on their programs to show their friends in school the next day.

They found their sits in the second to last roll in the peanut gallery. No sooner had they sat down when rolls of toilet paper started flying around, soon some ladies underwear were flying by. Eddie and Cheno started making paper plane and would fly them down to the ring.
“This is fun, Eddie, thanks for bringing me” said Cheno
“Thank my pop, Cheno, he is the one who bought your ticket”

The fighters for the first fight came in the ring. Rudy, Tony and Ray started betting on the fights, they would bet one dollar on the white or black corner, what ever fighter went to the corner they had, that was their bet.
The first fight was won by Al Galindo over Bobby Brewer, Rudy and Tony won a dollar each, Ray lost a dollar.
Second fight was between Joey Gurrola and Sammy Figueroa.
“Cheno, see that big guy in Figueroa's corner? That's big Jake Horn, he's a great trainer” said Eddie
The fight ended in a draw.
“Guess it didn't help Figueroa having Jake Horn in the corner, did it, Eddie? Said Cheno, as he threw a roll of toilet paper.
“He didn't lose did he?” said Eddie
“Well no, he didn't”
.
After a couple of more fights it was time for the main event, Art Aragon and Jimmy Carter would be coming into the ring soon.

Aragon looking weak is the first to come into the ring.
“Aragon is going to lose” said Eddie
“How do you know? Asked uncle Ray.
“Look how pale he looks, I read in the Mirror that he was having trouble making '35” said Eddie.
Carter comes into the ring looking great. After both fighters have been gloved in the ring they are introduce by Jimmy Lennon , referee Mushy Callahan calls the fighters to the center of the ring for their instructions.
The fight started fairly even for the first four rounds, from the fifth round on it was all Carter who won an easy 15 round unanimous decision.
Right after the fight ended uncle Ray wanted to leave.
'Okay guys, our guy lost; so lets get out of here”
“No! We have to stay and watch Keeny Teran fight Bobby Garza, they are fighting a six rounder” said Eddie.
“Ray, Keeny is the toast of the town, we have to stay and watch him fight” said uncle Tony
They stayed and watch Keeny win a unanimous decision.

On the way home Uncle Ray asked Eddie and Cheno if they wanted to fight.
“Guys, if you want to fight, I'll train you, after you train for a couple of months; I'll take you to the downtown CYO where Johnny Flores run the boxing program, I'm sure we can get you some sparring. Johnny is my friend and he'll help us out.
“Ray, you don't even know Johnny Flores” said Rudy
“Well maybe not, but I know where the CYO is at” laughed uncle Ray

Next day at school Eddie and Cheno were the toast of the school as they were holding court with their friends.
“You should have seen Aragon land that left hook of his” said Cheno as he threw a left hook.
“To bad he didn't landed it enough” said Eddie
“He was too weak from making weight”
“He was” agree Eddie
“But you should have seen that little Keeny Teran” Eddie and Cheno said in unison.
“Guys, Cheno and I are going to start training next week, my uncle Ray is going to train us” said Eddie

I was privileged, recently, to view a video of the new documentary "Joe Frazier: When the Smoke Clears". Joe Frazier's story has been told time and time again. The story is familiar to us by now. Yet director Mike Todd still managed to give us a fresh perspective on Frazier's life and career. Narrated by Joe's eldest son, Marvis Frazier, along with testimonials from family, friends and boxing personalities, including George Foreman, Bernard Hopkins and Larry Merchant, who share some candid memories. However, this is much more than a "This is Your Life" documentary. It is more like a well crafted, tightly woven tapestry that comes together to form a beautifully clear picture of it's subject, in this case "Smokin' Joe" Frazier, former undisputed heavyweight champion of the world.

The film begins with Frazier singing a reworked song made famous by Frank Sinatra, "My Way" and he was indeed doing it his way, as only "Smokin' Joe" can, a little slow perhaps and a little off key but with a passion and heart that has defined Joe Frazier to his legion of fans and admirers. The common belief is that Joe Frazier has been left bitter on the issue of Muhammad Ali, maybe at one time, but this peek into his current life says otherwise. If anything Frazier seems content with his place in boxing history, he is content with what he knows. So is his family. Joe Frazier is truly loved by his family, friends and fans and the film seems to answer that question "is it better to be popular or well liked?" As this film shows, being well liked, or loved, in this case, travels a lot deeper than popularity. I believe this is where Frazier draws his contentment and satisfaction. Frazier seems to relish the attention and enjoys talking about the 1971 "Fight of the Century", a fight he won by unanimous decision.

Marvis Frazier, who wears his love for his famous father on his sleeves, has become, in a sense, the defender and protector of his father's legacy. The bond between father and son is at the core of the film. A brief look back at Marvis Frazier's fight with Larry Holmes was somewhat emotional and we see Joe's pain, immediately after the fight. Both Frazier's have continually given back to the community both in the rural south where Joe was born and in Philadelphia where he lives today. In the south he is remembered as a local boy made good who has never forgotten where he came from and in Philadelphia, a town known for the ferocious gym wars and tough fighters, where he is heralded as the epitome of a "Philly Fighter". There are a couple of other clips, including Ali vs Frazier I and Frazier vs Foreman I, but the film focuses more on the Joe Frazier of today. This is the story that is being told

Growing up in the South, and later Philadelphia, Frazier experienced the full gamut of the black experience in America, contrary to the way he was portrayed by Muhammad Ali during their well covered rivalry. Joe, a proud man and more importantly, a proud black man has stayed close to his roots; family, friends and community. He has done so as the owner and operator of the Joe Frazier Gym, along with his son Marvis. Much of this documentary was filmed in the gym. Sadly, the gym was closed earlier this year for financial reasons. Still, that doesn't take away from what Frazier has accomplished over the years, nor can we ever count the number of young men that have been helped along the way, whether they became fighters or just good citizens.

There are some scenes in the film where an elderly Frazier is seen working the bag and shadowboxing in the ring. If you look closely, into his eyes, you can still see the fire burning inside. That wry smile and knowing look gives the impression that Muhammad Ali is still on the receiving end of his punches, thus the look of satisfaction on his face. I cannot say with 100% certainty, that Joe Frazier has exorcised the bitter memories of his rivalry with Ali, nor can I say that he has truly forgiven him for the cruel words that cut Joe deeply. All I can say for sure is, that Joe Frazier has learned to deal with it, and is living life "His Way" and on his terms.

If you are a fight fan, especially if you are a life long fan of Smokin' Joe Frazier, as I am, than you will be moved by this film, and in the long run, isn't that what art is all about?

Written and Directed by: Mike Todd
Produced by: Geseth Garcia, Mike Todd & Louise Rosen
Director of Photography: Quenell Jones
Narrated by: Marvis Frazier

http://boxing-ring.blogspot.com

kikibalt wrote:Paul, a short story I wrote about going to the fights in 1951. The guys here read it when I first posted it, not sure if you have. either way I hope you enjoy it.

Going To The Fights...1951
By Frank "kiki" Baltazar

Eddie Gomez was watching a boxing match on a nineteen inch TV when his dad, Rudy, came in the house and told Eddie.
“Eddie, look what I have here”
“Pops, did you get some tickets for the title fight?”
Eddie had been bugging his pop to take him to see the Art Argon vs Jimmy Carter lightweight title fight at the Olympic Auditorium for some time, his pop thought that Eddie; been twelve years old was to young to go to the fights.
“Yes, Eddie, I bought four tickets, your uncles, Tony and Ray, will be going with us. Now I hope your mom doesn't get mad at me, she too thinks you are to young to go to the fights”.
Eddie's mom, Lupe, was not too crazy to see Eddie going to the fights, but she did agree with Rudy; that their son would be disappointed if he was not allowed to go with his pop and uncles, so she gave her okay for Eddie to go.

Eddie couldn't wait to find his best friend, Cheno Diaz, to tell him the good news. He found Cheno tending his two cows and one goat at a nearby pasture.
“Cheno, my pops is taking me to see the Aragon and Carter title fight”,
"Gee Eddie, you are lucky, I wish I could go”.
“I'll ask my pop if he can get another ticket for you. Cheno, you think your mom and pops would let you go?”.
“I'll ask them” said Cheno.,
Eddie ask his pop if he could get a ticket for Cheno.
“Yes, I'm sure I can get one, Eddie, you tell Cheno, that if his mom and pop say its okay for him to go; we'll take him with us”.
Next day in school, Eddie told Cheno the good news.
“Cheno, my pops said that he'll get you a ticket if your mom and pop say that's its okay for you to go”.
“Eddie, mom and pop said I could go as long as your father was going, they trust your father, but not your uncle Ray, they say he is crazy, that he himself will get into a fight at the fights”.
“Yeah, uncle Ray is a bit wild, especially when he is drinking beer, but pops won't let him drink too much, he'll be okay”.

Two weeks later, they all piled into Rudy's 1946 Dodge and headed west from Simons on Washington Boulevard. Eddie and Cheno were so excited that they couldn't sit still and it was starting to bug uncle Ray.
“If you kids don't sit still, we are going to stop and drop you off here; and you are going to have to wait for us to pick you up after the fights” said uncle Ray.
“Leave them alone Ray, they are just excited to be going to the fights, after all, its their first time to see boxing live. You remember when you went for the first time and you got all crazy on us?, wanting to fight everybody there” said uncle Tony.
“Yeah, but I was drunk; and let me remind you that I was doing okay until that big guy cold-cock me and knocked me on my ass” uncle Ray laughed.

The area was so pack that they had to park 3 blocks away. Eddie and Cheno were shadow boxing as they walked up 18th Avenue.
“Hey Eddie, Cheno, you two want to become fighters, because if you do, I'll train you guys” said uncle Ray.
“Ray, what the hell do you know about training fighters? asked Rudy.
“Hey, Rudy, I have fighting experience”
“Yes, you do but, its street fighting experience, an I don't think you ever won a fight”
“At least I've never been ko, always finish on my feet” laughed Ray.

As the group approached the front entrance of the Olympic, they started seeing movie and boxing celebrities hanging around the sidewalk of Grand Avenue.
“Cheno! There's John Wayne and Pedro Armendariz” said the excitable Eddie
“And over there is Rosemary Cooney and her husband Jose Ferrer” said uncle Tony
“I see Tommy Campbell, Frankie Muche, Bob Murphy, Enrique Bolanos and Freddie Babe Herman over there talking to two men” said Cheno
“That's Cal Eaton and Babe McCoy they are talking too, they are probably talking about upcoming fights” said Rudy
Before entering the Olympic, they all bought the Knockout program from Speedy Dado. Eddie and Cheno started getting autographs on their programs to show their friends in school the next day.

They found their sits in the second to last roll in the peanut gallery. No sooner had they sat down when rolls of toilet paper started flying around, soon some ladies underwear were flying by. Eddie and Cheno started making paper plane and would fly them down to the ring.
“This is fun, Eddie, thanks for bringing me” said Cheno
“Thank my pop, Cheno, he is the one who bought your ticket”

The fighters for the first fight came in the ring. Rudy, Tony and Ray started betting on the fights, they would bet one dollar on the white or black corner, what ever fighter went to the corner they had, that was their bet.
The first fight was won by Al Galindo over Bobby Brewer, Rudy and Tony won a dollar each, Ray lost a dollar.
Second fight was between Joey Gurrola and Sammy Figueroa.
“Cheno, see that big guy in Figueroa's corner? That's big Jake Horn, he's a great trainer” said Eddie
The fight ended in a draw.
“Guess it didn't help Figueroa having Jake Horn in the corner, did it, Eddie? Said Cheno, as he threw a roll of toilet paper.
“He didn't lose did he?” said Eddie
“Well no, he didn't”
.
After a couple of more fights it was time for the main event, Art Aragon and Jimmy Carter would be coming into the ring soon.

Aragon looking weak is the first to come into the ring.
“Aragon is going to lose” said Eddie
“How do you know? Asked uncle Ray.
“Look how pale he looks, I read in the Mirror that he was having trouble making '35” said Eddie.
Carter comes into the ring looking great. After both fighters have been gloved in the ring they are introduce by Jimmy Lennon , referee Mushy Callahan calls the fighters to the center of the ring for their instructions.
The fight started fairly even for the first four rounds, from the fifth round on it was all Carter who won an easy 15 round unanimous decision.
Right after the fight ended uncle Ray wanted to leave.
'Okay guys, our guy lost; so lets get out of here”
“No! We have to stay and watch Keeny Teran fight Bobby Garza, they are fighting a six rounder” said Eddie.
“Ray, Keeny is the toast of the town, we have to stay and watch him fight” said uncle Tony
They stayed and watch Keeny win a unanimous decision.

On the way home Uncle Ray asked Eddie and Cheno if they wanted to fight.
“Guys, if you want to fight, I'll train you, after you train for a couple of months; I'll take you to the downtown CYO where Johnny Flores run the boxing program, I'm sure we can get you some sparring. Johnny is my friend and he'll help us out.
“Ray, you don't even know Johnny Flores” said Rudy
“Well maybe not, but I know where the CYO is at” laughed uncle Ray

Next day at school Eddie and Cheno were the toast of the school as they were holding court with their friends.
“You should have seen Aragon land that left hook of his” said Cheno as he threw a left hook.
“To bad he didn't landed it enough” said Eddie
“He was too weak from making weight”
“He was” agree Eddie
“But you should have seen that little Keeny Teran” Eddie and Cheno said in unison.
“Guys, Cheno and I are going to start training next week, my uncle Ray is going to train us” said Eddie

Frank, I've read this before and enjoyed it. A good story can never be told or written too many times!

Thanks Randy...

Rick Farris wrote:Mel Epstein & Me,
forty years ago . . .


Suey Welch had just taken over as my manager.
I was scheduled to fight at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium, a five-round fight against another local prelim kid, Ruben Coria.
Suey was basicly retired in the world of boxing. He had once managed former middleweight champ, Gorilla Jones.
He also guided the ill-fated Hank Hankinson back in the 30's, Gus Lesnevich, and Charlie Powell in the 50's, to name a few.
Suey had been an Olympic Auditorium matchmaker back in the early days of 18th & Grand Ave. boxing landmark.
Suey was a successful restaurant and bar owner during L.A.'s Golden Days and his political and underworld connections were well known.
He was also best friend of Forum Boxing promoter, the legendary George Parnassus.

Like all boxing men, young or old, retired or active, Suey Welch would always alter his retirement status with the rumor of a potential champ.
One was a kid from back home, an Ohio product, as was Suey when he drifted out West along with actor/gangster George Raft, actress Mae West, and wrestler/actor Mike Mazurki.
The young fighter's name was Gil King, and he was an unbeaten welterweight until Johnny Flores' Mexican import, Crispin Benitez, flattened him at the Olympic.

Gil King and I were stablemates of sorts. He was trained by Cannonball Green, I was considering trainers.
One day I was boxing in the gym (which was the Elks Building ballroom) with Columbian Jr. lightweight contender, Hugo Barazza.
Sitting below the corner of the ring where Johnny Villaflor was pouring water in my mouth was a sour looking old man with a bent nose and wearing a tweed hat, the bill pulled low to his eyes. He had a look of distrust on his face, like somebody was trying to sell him swamp property.

As I stepped out of the ring, Suey Welch and Jerry McCauley (my true manager) approached me.
"You need a trainer and I want you to try this guy." Welch told me.
I said, "OK."

A moment later, I was intoduced to Mel Epstein.
Suey looked at Mel and introduced us, "This is Ricky, Ricky this is Mel Epstein, but I call him "Ginsberg". He knows why."
I didn't quite understand the undercurrent of the conversation, but I saw Suey smile when he spoke and I noticed Epstein was glaring at Suey.
I had the feeling he owed Suey a favor. Maybe I was the favor?

When Mel and I were introduced, I stuck out my hand and he shook it. "You gotta get a haircut!" he announced.
Those were the first words Mel said to me. I would hear them often over the next four years.


-Rick Farris

Rick, that was a great story, I don't know if you ever told me before how you and Mel met. I'm laughing to myself right now because I can see Mel glaring as I was reading, his eyes penetrating and that grimace, there was no mistaking his anger.

AlFrancis wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:Gerry and the Pacemakers (1965) - "You'll Never Walk Alone"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7zWtQagdMY

Both the band and Alan Rudkin were on top of the world.
This was around the time Rudkin fought Harada for the bantamweight title.

Thanks for posting that Rick, it makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. I don't know if you know but that song by Gerry was adopted by the Liverpool football club fans as our anthem. It is a very emotional song for us, Here is a clip of the fans singing it, see how powerful it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I_crD6O ... re=related

As it happens Gerry was on tour in Australia only last month and we arranged for him to meet Lionel Rose at one of his concerts. Gerry dedicated a song that night to Dad and Lionel. I believe it was a very emotional moment for Lionel.

Amazing! Just last month, you say. What great timing. That was a kind moment you arranged!
As for the song, I had no idea of it's importance in Liverpool. You can feel the energy of that crowd. Brilliant!
I'm really enjoying this exchange. This is truly boxing history from the inside.
This is what makes this thread so great.

Rick Farris wrote:

telboy66 wrote:How many of you guys remember Terry Downes when he lived in the states He started his amateur career over there fought in the golden gloves & was even shortlisted for the Olympics until they realised he was British, he served in your marines on returning to UK he turned pro & went on to Fight Paul Pender for the title losing the first winning the second & losing the third.
For me the best fight I saw him was against Joey Giardello who he beat over 10 rounds,Terry an aggressive boxer used skill rather than brute force that night to beat a very tough boxer who even 3 years later was good enough to beat teak tough Dick Tiger for the light heavyweight title.
On 28Th May we are celebrating 50 years since that title win with a grand celebration night at the Thistle Hotel near Heathrow London UK, as Britain's oldest surviving world champion terry has never received any royal recognition for this or the unstinting charity work he has carried out during & after his career

tell . . . I had no idea that Downes lived in the States and served in our Marine Corps.
I like to learn something new everyday, thanks. I should know this.

First I've heard about too.

telboy66 wrote:How many of you guys remember Terry Downes when he lived in the states He started his amateur career over there fought in the golden gloves & was even shortlisted for the Olympics until they realised he was British, he served in your marines on returning to UK he turned pro & went on to Fight Paul Pender for the title losing the first winning the second & losing the third.
For me the best fight I saw him was against Joey Giardello who he beat over 10 rounds,Terry an aggressive boxer used skill rather than brute force that night to beat a very tough boxer who even 3 years later was good enough to beat teak tough Dick Tiger for the light heavyweight title.
On 28Th May we are celebrating 50 years since that title win with a grand celebration night at the Thistle Hotel near Heathrow London UK, as Britain's oldest surviving world champion terry has never received any royal recognition for this or the unstinting charity work he has carried out during & after his career

I hope it's a great night, i've met Terry on a couple of occasions and shared a few drinks with him. He's a real character. I last saw him in September at the York Hall Reunion in London. There is a push at the moment for Terry to be recognised with an MBE for all the charity work he's done over the years.

York Hall . . .

Alan mentioned York Hall in a previous post. I've heard what a legendary venue that is.
An actor I worked with a few years ago, Johnny Lee Miller (Angelina Jolie's ex), is a Brit and he told me watching boxing there.
He said it was a wild place.

Rick Farris wrote:

AlFrancis wrote:

Rick Farris wrote:Gerry and the Pacemakers (1965) - "You'll Never Walk Alone"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7zWtQagdMY

Both the band and Alan Rudkin were on top of the world.
This was around the time Rudkin fought Harada for the bantamweight title.

Thanks for posting that Rick, it makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. I don't know if you know but that song by Gerry was adopted by the Liverpool football club fans as our anthem. It is a very emotional song for us, Here is a clip of the fans singing it, see how powerful it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I_crD6O ... re=related

As it happens Gerry was on tour in Australia only last month and we arranged for him to meet Lionel Rose at one of his concerts. Gerry dedicated a song that night to Dad and Lionel. I believe it was a very emotional moment for Lionel.

Amazing! Just last month, you say. What great timing. That was a kind moment you arranged!
As for the song, I had no idea of it's importance in Liverpool. You can feel the energy of that crowd. Brilliant!
I'm really enjoying this exchange. This is truly boxing history from the inside.
This is what makes this thread so great.

I've made the claim before on dad's behalf that if it wasn't for him giving Gerry that beating as schoolboys Liverpool FC wouldn't of had that beautiful anthem

Randyman wrote:

kikibalt wrote:Paul, a short story I wrote about going to the fights in 1951. The guys here read it when I first posted it, not sure if you have. either way I hope you enjoy it.

Going To The Fights...1951
By Frank "kiki" Baltazar

Eddie Gomez was watching a boxing match on a nineteen inch TV when his dad, Rudy, came in the house and told Eddie.
“Eddie, look what I have here”
“Pops, did you get some tickets for the title fight?”
Eddie had been bugging his pop to take him to see the Art Argon vs Jimmy Carter lightweight title fight at the Olympic Auditorium for some time, his pop thought that Eddie; been twelve years old was to young to go to the fights.
“Yes, Eddie, I bought four tickets, your uncles, Tony and Ray, will be going with us. Now I hope your mom doesn't get mad at me, she too thinks you are to young to go to the fights”.
Eddie's mom, Lupe, was not too crazy to see Eddie going to the fights, but she did agree with Rudy; that their son would be disappointed if he was not allowed to go with his pop and uncles, so she gave her okay for Eddie to go.

Eddie couldn't wait to find his best friend, Cheno Diaz, to tell him the good news. He found Cheno tending his two cows and one goat at a nearby pasture.
“Cheno, my pops is taking me to see the Aragon and Carter title fight”,
"Gee Eddie, you are lucky, I wish I could go”.
“I'll ask my pop if he can get another ticket for you. Cheno, you think your mom and pops would let you go?”.
“I'll ask them” said Cheno.,
Eddie ask his pop if he could get a ticket for Cheno.
“Yes, I'm sure I can get one, Eddie, you tell Cheno, that if his mom and pop say its okay for him to go; we'll take him with us”.
Next day in school, Eddie told Cheno the good news.
“Cheno, my pops said that he'll get you a ticket if your mom and pop say that's its okay for you to go”.
“Eddie, mom and pop said I could go as long as your father was going, they trust your father, but not your uncle Ray, they say he is crazy, that he himself will get into a fight at the fights”.
“Yeah, uncle Ray is a bit wild, especially when he is drinking beer, but pops won't let him drink too much, he'll be okay”.

Two weeks later, they all piled into Rudy's 1946 Dodge and headed west from Simons on Washington Boulevard. Eddie and Cheno were so excited that they couldn't sit still and it was starting to bug uncle Ray.
“If you kids don't sit still, we are going to stop and drop you off here; and you are going to have to wait for us to pick you up after the fights” said uncle Ray.
“Leave them alone Ray, they are just excited to be going to the fights, after all, its their first time to see boxing live. You remember when you went for the first time and you got all crazy on us?, wanting to fight everybody there” said uncle Tony.
“Yeah, but I was drunk; and let me remind you that I was doing okay until that big guy cold-cock me and knocked me on my ass” uncle Ray laughed.

The area was so pack that they had to park 3 blocks away. Eddie and Cheno were shadow boxing as they walked up 18th Avenue.
“Hey Eddie, Cheno, you two want to become fighters, because if you do, I'll train you guys” said uncle Ray.
“Ray, what the hell do you know about training fighters? asked Rudy.
“Hey, Rudy, I have fighting experience”
“Yes, you do but, its street fighting experience, an I don't think you ever won a fight”
“At least I've never been ko, always finish on my feet” laughed Ray.

As the group approached the front entrance of the Olympic, they started seeing movie and boxing celebrities hanging around the sidewalk of Grand Avenue.
“Cheno! There's John Wayne and Pedro Armendariz” said the excitable Eddie
“And over there is Rosemary Cooney and her husband Jose Ferrer” said uncle Tony
“I see Tommy Campbell, Frankie Muche, Bob Murphy, Enrique Bolanos and Freddie Babe Herman over there talking to two men” said Cheno
“That's Cal Eaton and Babe McCoy they are talking too, they are probably talking about upcoming fights” said Rudy
Before entering the Olympic, they all bought the Knockout program from Speedy Dado. Eddie and Cheno started getting autographs on their programs to show their friends in school the next day.

They found their sits in the second to last roll in the peanut gallery. No sooner had they sat down when rolls of toilet paper started flying around, soon some ladies underwear were flying by. Eddie and Cheno started making paper plane and would fly them down to the ring.
“This is fun, Eddie, thanks for bringing me” said Cheno
“Thank my pop, Cheno, he is the one who bought your ticket”

The fighters for the first fight came in the ring. Rudy, Tony and Ray started betting on the fights, they would bet one dollar on the white or black corner, what ever fighter went to the corner they had, that was their bet.
The first fight was won by Al Galindo over Bobby Brewer, Rudy and Tony won a dollar each, Ray lost a dollar.
Second fight was between Joey Gurrola and Sammy Figueroa.
“Cheno, see that big guy in Figueroa's corner? That's big Jake Horn, he's a great trainer” said Eddie
The fight ended in a draw.
“Guess it didn't help Figueroa having Jake Horn in the corner, did it, Eddie? Said Cheno, as he threw a roll of toilet paper.
“He didn't lose did he?” said Eddie
“Well no, he didn't”
.
After a couple of more fights it was time for the main event, Art Aragon and Jimmy Carter would be coming into the ring soon.

Aragon looking weak is the first to come into the ring.
“Aragon is going to lose” said Eddie
“How do you know? Asked uncle Ray.
“Look how pale he looks, I read in the Mirror that he was having trouble making '35” said Eddie.
Carter comes into the ring looking great. After both fighters have been gloved in the ring they are introduce by Jimmy Lennon , referee Mushy Callahan calls the fighters to the center of the ring for their instructions.
The fight started fairly even for the first four rounds, from the fifth round on it was all Carter who won an easy 15 round unanimous decision.
Right after the fight ended uncle Ray wanted to leave.
'Okay guys, our guy lost; so lets get out of here”
“No! We have to stay and watch Keeny Teran fight Bobby Garza, they are fighting a six rounder” said Eddie.
“Ray, Keeny is the toast of the town, we have to stay and watch him fight” said uncle Tony
They stayed and watch Keeny win a unanimous decision.

On the way home Uncle Ray asked Eddie and Cheno if they wanted to fight.
“Guys, if you want to fight, I'll train you, after you train for a couple of months; I'll take you to the downtown CYO where Johnny Flores run the boxing program, I'm sure we can get you some sparring. Johnny is my friend and he'll help us out.
“Ray, you don't even know Johnny Flores” said Rudy
“Well maybe not, but I know where the CYO is at” laughed uncle Ray

Next day at school Eddie and Cheno were the toast of the school as they were holding court with their friends.
“You should have seen Aragon land that left hook of his” said Cheno as he threw a left hook.
“To bad he didn't landed it enough” said Eddie
“He was too weak from making weight”
“He was” agree Eddie
“But you should have seen that little Keeny Teran” Eddie and Cheno said in unison.
“Guys, Cheno and I are going to start training next week, my uncle Ray is going to train us” said Eddie

Frank, I've read this before and enjoyed it. A good story can never be told or written too many times!

Ditto! This is one of my favorites.