BoxRec

Posted: **08 Jun 2011, 23:36**

What you see, and what you got . . .

Mando Muniz and Mando Ramos told me the same story.
"I know it was a sell out, the balcony was full, people were turned away at the box-office."
The Olympic, in those days, would hold 10,400 fans. But when it came time to for the boxers to collect their percentage of the gate, they were paid for a smaller crowd.
When managers Jackie McCoy or Vic Weiss approached promoter Aileen Eaton, she'd claim the event was not a sell out, maybe claim the crowd to equal 7,000, give or take?
Sometimes the promoter's son, former wrestling champ, "Judo" Gene LeBell would be in his mother's office, when such negotiations were conducted.
That was Mrs. Eaton's version of "Winning through Intimidation". And it worked!

Whats a few thousand fans among freinds?

Posted: **08 Jun 2011, 23:57**

Rick Farris wrote:What you see, and what you got . . .

Mando Muniz and Mando Ramos told me the same story.
"I know it was a sell out, the balcony was full, people were turned away at the box-office."
The Olympic, in those days, would hold 10,400 fans. But when it came time to for the boxers to collect their percentage of the gate, they were paid for a smaller crowd.
When managers Jackie McCoy or Vic Weiss approached promoter Aileen Eaton, she'd claim the event was not a sell out, maybe claim the crowd to equal 7,000, give or take?
Sometimes the promoter's son, former wrestling champ, "Judo" Gene LeBell would be in his mother's office, when such negotiations were conducted.
That was Mrs. Eaton's version of "Winning through Intimidation". And it worked! Whats a few thousand fans among freinds?

Aragon vs. Carter-2 / Could this have been the case? . . .

Turn back the clock to Art Aragon's two 1951 matches with Jimmy Carter.
If you look at the gate & receipts for both fights, something doesn't make sense to me.
The first fight was a sellout, 10,400 fans for a gate of roughly $47,000. Aragon wins in ten rounds.
A few months later Carter gives Art a shot at his lightweight title. Approx. 7,200 fans draw $76,000.
I'm sure the tickets were higher priced as it was a title fight. But wouldn't an Aragon-Carter title fight sell out the Olympic, as it did the first time?
Aragon had to be considered a strong candidate to whip Carter. I can't believe this wouldn't draw a sell out in 1951?
This is a question only Hap Navarro might be able to answer today? At the time, Hap was the Hollywood Legion's matchmaker.
Frank, did you attend the second Aragon-Carter fight for the lightweight title? If so, do you recall if the house looked "sold out"?
I know this is of no matter today. I'm just curious about how business was conducted in days past.

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 03:04**

Rick you know how business was conducted in the past ,the boxer took the punches & the promoter/managers took the profit along with any behind closed door scheming they could get away with,Hold on just one minute I could be talking about today nothing has changed just that those with the power have more ways to hide their scams

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 03:09**

Aragon/Carter 2
From The Ring January 1952
LOS ANGELES-The crowd of 8,000, which had been noisy and excited for one whole hour, suddenly became quite and motionless at the Olympic Arena. Jimmy Lennon, the dapper, silver-voiced announcer of the Olympic, had walked to the center of the ring and was about to inform them who was the winner of the hard fought 15-round bout between Art Aragon, the "Golden Boy" of Los Angeles, and Jimmy Carter of New York, world lightweight king, which had kept them in such a state of excitement for the past hour.
The gate grossed an estimated $75,000, plus $35,000 for television rights.
Neither indicated an air of confidence. Both wore grim faces and they appeared unconscious of there handler's preparations. They were standing in there corners, jaws set, lips tightly drawn, looking at the floor, and then-the gong!
Carter rushed out and threw a right, which missed. However, it caused little furore, the gesture looked more like a means of exhaust for pent-up emotions, rather then a determined assualt. And this immediate offensive apparently released Aragon's tension also, and the punching started.
Carter's follwers had some anxious moments in this early action, for Aragon was punching with power and Carter was moving slowly and much too carelessly. The second round gave the crowd its first big thrill and Carter his first scare.
Aragon nailed Jimmy with a terrific left hook which staggered the champion, caused him to sag and one glove touched the canvas, which made it a knockdown, although not for a count. And then for a whole minute it looked as though there was to be a new champion. Aragon had nothing left but his courage in the final two rounds and Carter hit him at will, but Jimmy's punching power had weakened and he couldn't muster up enough oomph to upset his weary and battered foe. Each weighed 134 1/4. It was a bitter disappointment to California fans when there favorite, Art Aragon, failed in his bid for a world championship . But it was some consolation to them to know that when there Golden Boy lost, it was to a real champion.

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 07:27**

From the latimes

Genaro 'Chicanito' Hernandez

Two-time world super-featherweight champion

Genaro "Chicanito" Hernandez, 45, who ascended through the Southern California boxing ranks to become a two-time world super-featherweight champion, died Tuesday after more than two years battling cancer, boxing publicist Bill Caplan said.

Hernandez had a 38-2-1 record with 17 knockouts in a career that stretched from 1984 to 1998 and included victories over Azumah Nelson, Carlos Hernandez and Jorge Paez. His only losses were to Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Hernandez had spent recent years as a TV boxing analyst.

A Los Angeles native, Hernandez lived in Mission Viejo. He and his wife, Liliana, had a son and a daughter.

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 07:59**

Rick Farris wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:What you see, and what you got . . .

Mando Muniz and Mando Ramos told me the same story.
"I know it was a sell out, the balcony was full, people were turned away at the box-office."
The Olympic, in those days, would hold 10,400 fans. But when it came time to for the boxers to collect their percentage of the gate, they were paid for a smaller crowd.
When managers Jackie McCoy or Vic Weiss approached promoter Aileen Eaton, she'd claim the event was not a sell out, maybe claim the crowd to equal 7,000, give or take?
Sometimes the promoter's son, former wrestling champ, "Judo" Gene LeBell would be in his mother's office, when such negotiations were conducted.
That was Mrs. Eaton's version of "Winning through Intimidation". And it worked! Whats a few thousand fans among freinds?

Aragon vs. Carter-2 / Could this have been the case? . . .

Turn back the clock to Art Aragon's two 1951 matches with Jimmy Carter.
If you look at the gate & receipts for both fights, something doesn't make sense to me.
The first fight was a sellout, 10,400 fans for a gate of roughly $47,000. Aragon wins in ten rounds.
A few months later Carter gives Art a shot at his lightweight title. Approx. 7,200 fans draw $76,000.
I'm sure the tickets were higher priced as it was a title fight. But wouldn't an Aragon-Carter title fight sell out the Olympic, as it did the first time?
Aragon had to be considered a strong candidate to whip Carter. I can't believe this wouldn't draw a sell out in 1951?
This is a question only Hap Navarro might be able to answer today? At the time, Hap was the Hollywood Legion's matchmaker.
Frank, did you attend the second Aragon-Carter fight for the lightweight title? If so, do you recall if the house looked "sold out"?
I know this is of no matter today. I'm just curious about how business was conducted in days past.

I was there. The Olympic was pack to the rafters that night, the announce gate was bullshit. The Eaton's and Babe McCoy were doing what they did all the time, steal from the fighters.

Btw, it was Jake Horn who got in hot water with Aileen Eaton. Mando Muniz couldn't get a fight at the Olympic after that until he got rid of Jake, hence, Vic Weiss....Weiss was a bag man for the mob, who was later found dead in the trunk of his RR.

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 09:27**

Reading the past few items,there is discussion on paid gates and what fighters got.
If you are getting your stats from ring record books,be very leery of those numbers.
Also,newspaper accounts can be deceiving also.

Maybe you can talk to Hap or Don on this, but the numbers that were "officially" put out by promoters wre usually lowballed as to beat the IRS cut.
Most promoters got away with this by claiming comps and the amount of news writers that came into the fights (especially title fights). Its a win,win situation for fighters and promoters usually. If the promoters are screwing the fighters out of earnings than thats something else, because their pocketing a portion of the fighters purse.
If a crowd looks sold out in an arena (and it might be),and at the end of the night,the promoters are claiming 3/4's sold,thats usual. Leftover tickets have to handed over to the IRS for a count. The best part is tickets being duplicated,or false sections being made up that dont exist.Alot of tickets had holes punched in them indicating comps. Remember,the promoters get the tickets printed,not the IRS.
Usually lower cuts to fighters is explained away in paying off the news men, advertising,security and other extras that kept the show running.
I was led to believe that any mob money received came from the fighters individual cut or mostly from the gambling odds.
Many fighters, at the time had smiles on their faces, until they found out that their mgrs and promoters didnt pay a dime to the IRS at all from those nights and it would catch up to them later.
There is a story about a fight somewhere I read that said everyone there saw it was a sellout but the promoters wrote it off as a loss. I gotta track that down and post. It was not one of my dads fights.

Tread carefully on what was real,and what was reported.

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 09:58**

kikibalt wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:What you see, and what you got . . .

Mando Muniz and Mando Ramos told me the same story.
"I know it was a sell out, the balcony was full, people were turned away at the box-office."
The Olympic, in those days, would hold 10,400 fans. But when it came time to for the boxers to collect their percentage of the gate, they were paid for a smaller crowd.
When managers Jackie McCoy or Vic Weiss approached promoter Aileen Eaton, she'd claim the event was not a sell out, maybe claim the crowd to equal 7,000, give or take?
Sometimes the promoter's son, former wrestling champ, "Judo" Gene LeBell would be in his mother's office, when such negotiations were conducted.
That was Mrs. Eaton's version of "Winning through Intimidation". And it worked! Whats a few thousand fans among freinds?

Aragon vs. Carter-2 / Could this have been the case? . . .

Turn back the clock to Art Aragon's two 1951 matches with Jimmy Carter.
If you look at the gate & receipts for both fights, something doesn't make sense to me.
The first fight was a sellout, 10,400 fans for a gate of roughly $47,000. Aragon wins in ten rounds.
A few months later Carter gives Art a shot at his lightweight title. Approx. 7,200 fans draw $76,000.
I'm sure the tickets were higher priced as it was a title fight. But wouldn't an Aragon-Carter title fight sell out the Olympic, as it did the first time?
Aragon had to be considered a strong candidate to whip Carter. I can't believe this wouldn't draw a sell out in 1951?
This is a question only Hap Navarro might be able to answer today? At the time, Hap was the Hollywood Legion's matchmaker.
Frank, did you attend the second Aragon-Carter fight for the lightweight title? If so, do you recall if the house looked "sold out"?
I know this is of no matter today. I'm just curious about how business was conducted in days past.
I was there. The Olympic was pack to the rafters that night, the announce gate was bullshit. The Eaton's and Babe McCoy were doing what they did all the time, steal from the fighters.

Btw, it was Jake Horn who got in hot water with Aileen Eaton. Mando Muniz couldn't get a fight at the Olympic after that until he got rid of Jake, hence, Vic Weiss....Weiss was a bag man for the mob, who was later found dead in the trunk of his RR.

Frank, I've seen the fight film Aragon/Carter title fight, it looked a sell out..

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 10:00**

Rick Farris wrote:I'm working on something good.
More to be revealed . . .

Rick,

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 10:02**

CNorkusJr wrote:Reading the past few items,there is discussion on paid gates and what fighters got.
If you are getting your stats from ring record books,be very leery of those numbers.
Also,newspaper accounts can be deceiving also.

Maybe you can talk to Hap or Don on this, but the numbers that were "officially" put out by promoters wre usually lowballed as to beat the IRS cut.
Most promoters got away with this by claiming comps and the amount of news writers that came into the fights (especially title fights). Its a win,win situation for fighters and promoters usually. If the promoters are screwing the fighters out of earnings than thats something else, because their pocketing a portion of the fighters purse.
If a crowd looks sold out in an arena (and it might be),and at the end of the night,the promoters are claiming 3/4's sold,thats usual. Leftover tickets have to handed over to the IRS for a count. The best part is tickets being duplicated,or false sections being made up that dont exist.Alot of tickets had holes punched in them indicating comps. Remember,the promoters get the tickets printed,not the IRS.
Usually lower cuts to fighters is explained away in paying off the news men, advertising,security and other extras that kept the show running.
I was led to believe that any mob money received came from the fighters individual cut or mostly from the gambling odds.
Many fighters, at the time had smiles on their faces, until they found out that their mgrs and promoters didnt pay a dime to the IRS at all from those nights and it would catch up to them later.
There is a story about a fight somewhere I read that said everyone there saw it was a sellout but the promoters wrote it off as a loss. I gotta track that down and post. It was not one of my dads fights.

Tread carefully on what was real,and what was reported.

Charlie, Thanks for the info..

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 10:15**

Cholo wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:
Aragon vs. Carter-2 / Could this have been the case? . . .

Turn back the clock to Art Aragon's two 1951 matches with Jimmy Carter.
If you look at the gate & receipts for both fights, something doesn't make sense to me.
The first fight was a sellout, 10,400 fans for a gate of roughly $47,000. Aragon wins in ten rounds.
A few months later Carter gives Art a shot at his lightweight title. Approx. 7,200 fans draw $76,000.
I'm sure the tickets were higher priced as it was a title fight. But wouldn't an Aragon-Carter title fight sell out the Olympic, as it did the first time?
Aragon had to be considered a strong candidate to whip Carter. I can't believe this wouldn't draw a sell out in 1951?
This is a question only Hap Navarro might be able to answer today? At the time, Hap was the Hollywood Legion's matchmaker.
Frank, did you attend the second Aragon-Carter fight for the lightweight title? If so, do you recall if the house looked "sold out"?
I know this is of no matter today. I'm just curious about how business was conducted in days past.
I was there. The Olympic was pack to the rafters that night, the announce gate was bullshit. The Eaton's and Babe McCoy were doing what they did all the time, steal from the fighters.

Btw, it was Jake Horn who got in hot water with Aileen Eaton. Mando Muniz couldn't get a fight at the Olympic after that until he got rid of Jake, hence, Vic Weiss....Weiss was a bag man for the mob, who was later found dead in the trunk of his RR.
Frank, I've seen the fight film Aragon/Carter title fight, it looked a sell out..

I was there Paul, and for sure there were more than 10,400 people there that nite, how many freebies? hard to tell. The game that was played at the Olympic with fighters that were fighting on a % of the gate was played on us (Frankie) couple of times...been there, done that!!

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 10:25**

Genaro remembered well . . .

It's True: The Good Indeed Die Young

By Steve Kim

For the last several years, former two-time super featherweight champion Genaro Hernandez had battled a rare form of cancer that had plagued his neck and head. It was thought to be in remission in 2009, only to return in 2010. Throughout it all, the humble man we called “Chicanito” fought valiantly. Once a fixture at ringside, where he played various roles from commentating on fights for Spanish networks to his duties for CompuBox, no matter what condition he was in, Hernandez was always in good spirits.

You didn’t have to ask how he felt. You could see it. Whether it was his emaciated look, the hair loss or the hue of his skin, you knew this was a sick man. In recent times, we’d see less of Genaro but through it all, he was, at his core, the same guy that made him a universally beloved figure in the boxing community.

Hernandez would constantly speak of fighting the good fight and staying positive, not just for himself but his wife Liliana and his two kids, Amanda (age 19) and Steven (age 11). He had too much to live for- prom dates to give the once over to, graduations to attend, kids to send off to college and eventually becoming a grandfather. Hernandez’s real life was just heading into the middle rounds.

Hernandez knew he was a heavy underdog but the fighter who was once inflicted with brittle hands kept punching as long as he could.

On May 4th, his brother, Rudy Hernandez, sent out this text message: "My brother will be sent home and take the weekend to spend with his family because it could be the last one he has with them outside of the hospital. His cancer got aggressive and took over."

“Chicanito” fought the good fight but he knew it was time to throw in the towel. Chemotherapy, which had taken so much from him, could do no more. This past Tuesday at 3:04 PM, at his home in Mission Viejo, CA, he passed away, surrounded by his family and loved ones.

I’m sure most of you know about his career inside the ring, where he cut his teeth as a boxer at the Great Western Forum. Hernandez eventually captured the 130-pound title twice, once memorably against Azumah Nelson (when he decided to fight on instead of forcing a disqualification for a punch after the bell) and his disappointing night against Oscar De La Hoya and a career-ending performance versus Floyd Mayweather were the only two losses in his 41-fight career. He was a skilled practitioner of the “Sweet Science” who used his freakish size (5’11”) as a 130-pounder to artfully outbox his foes. Hernandez wasn’t necessarily spectacular but he was a steady and polished prizefighter. As his record shows, you had to be more than just “good” to defeat him.

But why he was so well-liked and respected really had nothing to do with his accomplishments inside the ring. It was the person he was outside of it. Whether you were a fellow world champion, media member, trainer, cutman or fan, you could not find a nicer, more gracious individual. Hernandez was the very definition of humility and grace. Genaro was a better individual than he was a boxer; there is no debating that.

His brother, also a former fighter (ultimately becoming his trainer), says, "He was a genuine gentleman, as [Top Rank matchmaker] Bruce Trampler put it. He was a genuine gentleman."

There was an everyman quality and a certain normalcy to Hernandez and in many ways, he was the embodiment of that. While he had a storied career and made some money, he still had to go out into the real world and make a living for his family as he retired, which was just fine by him. If that involved boxing, even better. What Rudy will remember most about his brother is, "that he never thought he was better than anybody else and that his whole thing was if he could only be treated equally to a guy who was a four-round fighter, then he could be happy with that. It took him a long time to get used to the fact that people called him ’champ’."

This reporter began covering boxing back in 1996 (Where does the time go?) and the now-closed L.A. Boxing was the first gym I visited on a regular basis. It was there where I secured my first relationships with world-class fighters like Hernandez and an up-and-coming lightweight that was the best-kept secret on the West Coast by the name of Shane Mosley. They were frequent sparring partners (and it was Mosley that broke Hernandez’s nose before his bout against De La Hoya in 1995, effectively taking away any chance he had of beating the “Golden Boy”) and as I found out like anyone else, Hernandez was as accommodating as any athlete I have ever covered.

From being a guest on my radio show (the long-lost “Main Event” on KIEV and later, XTRA 1150) to coverage from my early days as a scribe at HouseofBoxing.com, Hernandez could always be counted on to be a real pro. After his retirement in 1998, he would jump over to our side of the ropes and work as a member of the media as an analyst. He was eventually hired by Top Rank (whose leader Bob Arum, sans fanfare, covered the cost of Hernandez’s medical bills along with Akihiko Honda of Teiken Promotions and the WBC) to do their international broadcasts.

His partner?

Yours Truly.

As news of Hernandez’s passing spread through the boxing world, I received this email from Rick Seara, who, at the time, was the executive producer of those telecasts:

"Hey, I know you are aware already. I just wanted to say that some of my funnest memories were with you and Genaro working together in the States and in Mexico. You guys made a good team and always brought out the best in each other. Heaven just got classier with a great champion.

Rick"

For the better part of a year between 1999 and 2000, it was “Chicanito” and me behind the mic. Being that we both lived in Southern California, we would get booked on the same flights in and out of LAX, traveling to the likes of Madison, Wisconsin, Boise, Idaho and Chihuahua, Mexico, calling various fight cards. We had a familiar pattern. We’d fly in together, share a cab, get our per diem from Top Rank site coordinator Jay Edson (another real “boxing guy” who is greatly missed) and then go eat. Hernandez and I had some great memories on the road. Running like hell in Madison from a torrential downpour in the middle of August after eating dinner at a local diner. Genaro somehow getting us upgraded to first-class on the way home to Los Angeles one time after just chatting with the ticket agent in St. Paul. Calling the classic first encounter between Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales (we were actually on the ring apron right next to the HBO crew) at the Mandalay Bay. In the immediate aftermath of that pitched battle, Arum- who promoted “El Terrible”- looked down at us from the ring and asked who we had winning. In unison, we blurted out, “Barrera.” Arum just rolled his eyes. Then there was the time just minutes from the first edition of Shane Mosley-Oscar De La Hoya at the Staples Center when I lost my color guy because he was also committed to work for HBO Latino (Hey, the guy was in demand). Seara nearly had a heart attack and just like that, I was a solo act that evening.

Those were good times. I learned a lot about boxing from Hernandez but what I really learned was what type of person he was. There was not one time I can recall that he turned down an autograph or a photo for an admiring fan or anyone that wanted to strike up a conversation with him about boxing as he hung out in the hotel lobby. From a grassroots level, Hernandez was as good an ambassador as the sport ever had. He was boxing’s version of Will Rogers.

This past weekend, his former colleague at CompuBox, Joe Carnicelli, let everyone in press row at the Staples Center know that things were looking grave for our friend. Word spread quickly; most of us already knew but just hearing it again was disturbing.

At age 45, a life well lived was coming to an end. This upcoming Monday starting at 11 AM, services in Hernandez’s honor will be held at the Resurrection Church in East Los Angeles (3324 Opal St. The cross streets are 8th and Lorena). He will be buried with his WBC belt around his waist, his Teiken jumpsuit on and a pair of boxing gloves on his hands. Yeah, he’s a fighter…even now. His brother says, "I hope a lot of people show up and I want his son, who’s only 11 years old…I hope that he can see the impact on who his dad was."

Rudy said his goodbye on Sunday night as “Chicanito” lay in bed.

"I was literally on top of him, face-to-face, and I told him, ’We did good, huh?’ and the big ol’ smile of his, he just gave me that smile and he said, ’Yeah, we did good’ and he shook his head like, ’Yeah, we did really good’ and then he just kinda laid back on that pillow and he pretty much went into rest that night.

"He went to sleep and that’s the last time we ever saw him smile."

maxboxing.com

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 11:01**

Cholo wrote:Aragon/Carter 2
From The Ring January 1952
LOS ANGELES-The crowd of 8,000, which had been noisy and excited for one whole hour, suddenly became quite and motionless at the Olympic Arena. Jimmy Lennon, the dapper, silver-voiced announcer of the Olympic, had walked to the center of the ring and was about to inform them who was the winner of the hard fought 15-round bout between Art Aragon, the "Golden Boy" of Los Angeles, and Jimmy Carter of New York, world lightweight king, which had kept them in such a state of excitement for the past hour.
The gate grossed an estimated $75,000, plus $35,000 for television rights.
Neither indicated an air of confidence. Both wore grim faces and they appeared unconscious of there handler's preparations. They were standing in there corners, jaws set, lips tightly drawn, looking at the floor, and then-the gong!
Carter rushed out and threw a right, which missed. However, it caused little furore, the gesture looked more like a means of exhaust for pent-up emotions, rather then a determined assualt. And this immediate offensive apparently released Aragon's tension also, and the punching started.
Carter's follwers had some anxious moments in this early action, for Aragon was punching with power and Carter was moving slowly and much too carelessly. The second round gave the crowd its first big thrill and Carter his first scare.
Aragon nailed Jimmy with a terrific left hook which staggered the champion, caused him to sag and one glove touched the canvas, which made it a knockdown, although not for a count. And then for a whole minute it looked as though there was to be a new champion. Aragon had nothing left but his courage in the final two rounds and Carter hit him at will, but Jimmy's punching power had weakened and he couldn't muster up enough oomph to upset his weary and battered foe. Each weighed 134 1/4. It was a bitter disappointment to California fans when there favorite, Art Aragon, failed in his bid for a world championship . But it was some consolation to them to know that when there Golden Boy lost, it was to a real champion.

This article appeared in the January, 1952 Ring Magazine.
That was the month I was born.

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 11:09**

kikibalt wrote:
Cholo wrote:
kikibalt wrote: I was there. The Olympic was pack to the rafters that night, the announce gate was bullshit. The Eaton's and Babe McCoy were doing what they did all the time, steal from the fighters.

Btw, it was Jake Horn who got in hot water with Aileen Eaton. Mando Muniz couldn't get a fight at the Olympic after that until he got rid of Jake, hence, Vic Weiss....Weiss was a bag man for the mob, who was later found dead in the trunk of his RR.
Frank, I've seen the fight film Aragon/Carter title fight, it looked a sell out..
I was there Paul, and for sure there were more than 10,400 people there that nite, how many freebies? hard to tell. The game that was played at the Olympic with fighters that were fighting on a % of the gate was played on us (Frankie) couple of times...been there, done that!!

The reason for my post was to bring this out, although it has been brought out more than once before on this thread. You are right about Jake Horn, being the one that got into it with Aileen over Muniz's percentage. That's what Mando told me, I mistakenly named Vic Weiss. By the way, Weiss' body was found decomposed in the trunk of his Cadillac in the parking structure of the Universal Studios Sheraton Hotel. This happened around the time Howie Steindler was wacked.

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 12:51**

Frank/Rick, I've been watching the Aragon/Carter title fight, i have a DVD of this fight, it was released a few years ago over here as part of a collection titled, BOXERS. There are parts missing from the 14th and 15th rounds, picture isn't bad just a little grainy in places. When Jimmy Lennon was intoducing Joey Maxim into the ring Maxim walked into the overhead mic, this brought a cheer from the crowd

, Golden Boy got a tremendous cheer from the fans when introduced, Art was outpunching Carter in the early going, if not for starving himself to get down to 135 i think Art would have walked away with the title. Art was throwing some bombs in there, you can hear them thudding home. Pabst Blue Ribbon commentator Russ Hodges said this fight was the first to be televised coast to coast..

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 13:03**

Cholo wrote:Frank/Rick, I've been watching the Aragon/Carter title fight, i have a DVD of this fight, it was released a few years ago over here as part of a collection titled, BOXERS. There are parts missing from the 14th and 15th rounds, picture isn't bad just a little grainy in places. When Jimmy Lennon was intoducing Joey Maxim into the ring Maxim walked into the overhead mic, this brought a cheer from the crowd , Golden Boy got a tremendous cheer from the fans when introduced, Art was outpunching Carter in the early going, if not for starving himself to get down to 135 i think Art would have walked away with the title. Art was throwing some bombs in there, you can hear them thudding home. Pabst Blue Ribbon commentator Russ Hodges said this fight was the first to be televised coast to coast..

I too have that fight on DVD. It was I believe the first fight to be televised from the west coast to the east coast live.....

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 16:06**

Sugar Ray Leonard "The Big Fight" . . .

Just came out. I picked up a copy at Barnes & Noble.
Might be an interesting read?

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 16:13**

Trout-Lopez WBA officials
By Gabriel F. Cordero

Canadian referee Hubert Earle will be the third man in the ring when American WBA super welterweight champion Austin Trout (22-0, 13 KOs) defends against Mexican David ¨Destroyer¨Lopez (40-12, 23 KOs) at the Auditorio Miguel Barragan, San Luis Potosi, Mexico on Saturday. The three judges are John Poturaj (US), Carlos Sucre (Venezuela) and Cesar Ramos (Puerto Rico). The fight Supervisor is Calvin Inalsingh (Trinidad & Tobago).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Austin Trout . . .
Trout won the title in Mexico, but I hope they let him keep it down there? Lots of strange things happen to American's when they fight in Mexico.
I'd like to see Trout featured on one of our high profile Las Vegas-Cable events. We don't see him when he fights below the border. No exposure.
-Rick Farris

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 17:16**

Cholo wrote:Frank/Rick, I've been watching the Aragon/Carter title fight, i have a DVD of this fight, it was released a few years ago over here as part of a collection titled, BOXERS. There are parts missing from the 14th and 15th rounds, picture isn't bad just a little grainy in places. When Jimmy Lennon was intoducing Joey Maxim into the ring Maxim walked into the overhead mic, this brought a cheer from the crowd , Golden Boy got a tremendous cheer from the fans when introduced, Art was outpunching Carter in the early going, if not for starving himself to get down to 135 i think Art would have walked away with the title. Art was throwing some bombs in there, you can hear them thudding home. Pabst Blue Ribbon commentator Russ Hodges said this fight was the first to be televised coast to coast..

1952- First Live coast to coast-Thanks for that info.

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 17:22**

Rick Farris wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
Cholo wrote: Frank, I've seen the fight film Aragon/Carter title fight, it looked a sell out..
I was there Paul, and for sure there were more than 10,400 people there that nite, how many freebies? hard to tell. The game that was played at the Olympic with fighters that were fighting on a % of the gate was played on us (Frankie) couple of times...been there, done that!!

The reason for my post was to bring this out, although it has been brought out more than once before on this thread. You are right about Jake Horn, being the one that got into it with Aileen over Muniz's percentage. That's what Mando told me, I mistakenly named Vic Weiss. By the way, Weiss' body was found decomposed in the trunk of his Cadillac in the parking structure of the Universal Studios Sheraton Hotel. This happened around the time Howie Steindler was wacked.

Any scuttlebutt that the murders of Howie Steindler and Vic Weiss were connected? I recall reading at the time Howie Steindler was killed that it appeared his murder was likely a random killing - a "bump and run" carjacking.

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 17:24**

Rick Farris wrote:Sugar Ray Leonard "The Big Fight" . . .

Just came out. I picked up a copy at Barnes & Noble.
Might be an interesting read?

If that's the one where he now claims he was sexually abused by one of his Olympic coaches, I think I'll pass . . .

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 18:24**

raylawpc wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:
kikibalt wrote: I was there Paul, and for sure there were more than 10,400 people there that nite, how many freebies? hard to tell. The game that was played at the Olympic with fighters that were fighting on a % of the gate was played on us (Frankie) couple of times...been there, done that!!

The reason for my post was to bring this out, although it has been brought out more than once before on this thread. You are right about Jake Horn, being the one that got into it with Aileen over Muniz's percentage. That's what Mando told me, I mistakenly named Vic Weiss. By the way, Weiss' body was found decomposed in the trunk of his Cadillac in the parking structure of the Universal Studios Sheraton Hotel. This happened around the time Howie Steindler was wacked.
Any scuttlebutt that the murders of Howie Steindler and Vic Weiss were connected? I recall reading at the time Howie Steindler was killed that it appeared his murder was likely a random killing - a "bump and run" carjacking.

Don Fraser believes the "bump & run" theory.
Howie's background, recent issues involving the corrupt Cal Athletic Commission, and recent conflict with Aileen Eaton over the future of Danny Lopez, fueled the "mob hit" theory.
After 34 years, who knows? Who is still alive that can or will answer such questions?

The Vic Weiss murder was a different story.
Vic was known to be mob connected, seen with Johnny Seca, Mickey Cohen way back, etc.
Many close to Weiss were not surprised by his murder.

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 19:24**

Rick Farris wrote:
Don Fraser believes the "bump & run" theory.
Howie's background, recent issues involving the corrupt Cal Athletic Commission, and recent conflict with Aileen Eaton over the future of Danny Lopez, fueled the "mob hit" theory.
After 34 years, who knows? Who is still alive that can or will answer such questions?

The Vic Weiss murder was a different story.
Vic was known to be mob connected, seen with Johnny Seca, Mickey Cohen, etc.
Many close to Weiss were not surprised by his murder.

I really don't know what to believe about Howie's murder, I say that because I talk to Howie two weeks before he got killed, he told me at that time that he had had dinner with some guys, he didn't name names, they wanted Danny "Little Red" Lopez he told me, he said that he told them that Danny was not for sale, they then started talking tough he said, which he asked them then, "What? are you going to apply muscle now?", his words...Two weeks later he was dead....

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 19:30**

kikibalt wrote:
Rick Farris wrote:
Don Fraser believes the "bump & run" theory.
Howie's background, recent issues involving the corrupt Cal Athletic Commission, and recent conflict with Aileen Eaton over the future of Danny Lopez, fueled the "mob hit" theory.
After 34 years, who knows? Who is still alive that can or will answer such questions?

The Vic Weiss murder was a different story.
Vic was known to be mob connected, seen with Johnny Seca, Mickey Cohen, etc.
Many close to Weiss were not surprised by his murder.
I really don't know what to believe in Howie's murder, I say that because I talk to Howie two weeks before he got killed, he told me at that time that he had had dinner with some guys, he didn't name names, they wanted Danny "Little Red" Lopez he told me, he said that he told them that Danny was not for sale, they then started talking tough he said, which he asked them then, "What? are you going to apply muscle now?", his words...Two weeks later he was dead....

My former father-in-law, trainer Joe Christy, told me he was in Howie's office the day before, along with Jerry Indrasano.
Steindler received a threatening phone call, almost turned pale when he hung up. He shook his head, the caller was Mrs Eaton.
Nobody knew his business, but he was visably affected by the phone call, according to Joe, who was not a BS'er.
Next evening he was dead. To me, the bump & run sounds like something the LAPD would offer.
The LAPD has it's own hit squad, today as always.

Posted: **09 Jun 2011, 20:01**

kikibalt wrote:Jack Dempsey & Charlie Chaplin

The photo was taken at the Charlie Chaplin Studios on La Brea Ave. in Hollywood.
For more than half a century, it has been home to A&M Records.
Dempsey lived in the neighborhood, a few miles away, in the Los Feliz area below Griffith Park.

-Rick Farris

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