Classic American West Coast Boxing

[raylawpc]

Tom, I read your post above on The Klitschko's being a product of their circumstances and era. That their skills or lack thereof does not mean that they dont train hard or try harder in the ring, and its not their fault that their opponents are weaker or even less skilled.
You make a good point. I always seem to place the Champions of any weight class in a glass bubble that would include other champs from other eras. The Klitschkos I cannot seem to do that no matter what their excuse.

If these guys were respectable fighters that the titles holdsforth, then they should be knocking out all their opponents in a matter of a few rounds.

I dont know exactly where to place the blame on their lack of killer instinct.Watching Vlad, it seems he plays to the other fighters level,ever so cautious and it seems he doesnt believe in himself. His opponents seem to have a fear of getting smashed by his right jabs and stay away. Far away. But being cautious can be taken too far.It's like watching "Dancing With The Stars" . A good opponent should sense a chance at stealing away a championship from a champion when you fight a guy like Vlad.
Vlad knows that the title must be "taken" from him. He's cautious and on the defensive,thus happy with going the distance. Somebody has to come along and take the fight to him.
If he will let them fight him is another story.The clock is running.

Is the whole Heavyweight division that much of a disgrace that no one doesnt want to pound this guy into oblivion.? I still feel that two good shots on this guy's square jaw and will fall like John Tate did against Mike Weaver many years ago.

Yeah, I don't think they are bad guys - in fact, the young one is the kind of guy one wouldn't be too troubled to see his daughter bring home. (Easy for me to say; I don't have daughters.) I think they are serious, they try hard within the limits of their abilities, they always come into the ring in excellent shape, and I haven't seen a thing yet that shows either lacks heart. But the fact is, they have zero talent. Problem is, the other guys in the division either have no talent or no heart. Yes, the heavyweight division really is that much of a disgrace! - IMHO.

I won't call these guys "bums." A "bum," in my thinking, is a fighter who doesn't put out a good effort (or only as good an effort as necessary to make sure he gets paid), and really doesn't care whether he wins or loses. These guys do care.

(Simmie Black was the classic "bum." After every fight, the first thing Simmie would say is, "We give'm a good show, huh?" "Yes, Simmie, it was a good show." "Yeah, they gotta pay us tonight!")

[raylawpc]

Shaking a man's hand............

I was taught early on, by my father, the value of a good and sincere handshake. "Always look a man in the eye" he would say. This is not just to read another man but showing who you are as well, it's the purest form of honesty. I would rather shake a fighter's hand than get his autograph. Mel Epstein was big on handshaking, a good firm honest handshake. There was no deception in the man.

A handshake is one of the most honest form of communication and expression between men and also one of the most deceptive, or at least attempted deception. Most men expose themselves in an honest handshake. You ever shake hands with someone who seems to want to break your hand as he shakes it, at the very least, he seems to want to hear you cry uncle. The opposite is a limp, almost feminine handshake both say a lot about the man but the first one says the most.

When a man says to me "can't wait to shake your hand" it says a lot about that man as well. Can't wait to shake your hand too, Charley!

Thank You Randy, The pleasure will be all mine as to greet all my friends at CAWCB.

You will be in for a treat, Chuck. Randy and his friend Ed sat at my table at last year's CBHOF banquet. Two great guys and, along with Frank and Rick, made me feel very welcome at the banquet. It was the first time I'd met any of them, but they quickly put me at ease, and I felt like I'd known them my whole life.

The only thing I'm pissed about is that those guys never told me about the Manuel's Special. I'd like to have had a crack at that burrito! Instead, I was stuck eating sushi in Studio City the night before, and a hotdog at some shitty diner after the banquet.

[Cholo]

http://youtu.be/ybALQs8webs

Ike Williams vs Chuck Davey on radio...

Frank, funny you should mention Ike Williams, i've been watching his fight with Beau Jack 1948, what a fighter..

[kikibalt]

Shaking a man's hand............

I was taught early on, by my father, the value of a good and sincere handshake. "Always look a man in the eye" he would say. This is not just to read another man but showing who you are as well, it's the purest form of honesty. I would rather shake a fighter's hand than get his autograph. Mel Epstein was big on handshaking, a good firm honest handshake. There was no deception in the man.

A handshake is one of the most honest form of communication and expression between men and also one of the most deceptive, or at least attempted deception. Most men expose themselves in an honest handshake. You ever shake hands with someone who seems to want to break your hand as he shakes it, at the very least, he seems to want to hear you cry uncle. The opposite is a limp, almost feminine handshake both say a lot about the man but the first one says the most.

When a man says to me "can't wait to shake your hand" it says a lot about that man as well. Can't wait to shake your hand too, Charley!

Thank You Randy, The pleasure will be all mine as to greet all my friends at CAWCB.

You will be in for a treat, Chuck. Randy and his friend Ed sat at my table at last year's CBHOF banquet. Two great guys and, along with Frank and Rick, made me feel very welcome at the banquet. It was the first time I'd met any of them, but they quickly put me at ease, and I felt like I'd known them my whole life.

The only thing I'm pissed about is that those guys never told me about the Manuel's Special. I'd like to have had a crack at that burrito! Instead, I was stuck eating sushi in Studio City the night before, and a hotdog at some shitty diner after the banquet.

Tom, you want to take on Kid Burrito A.K.A Manuel Special??, you, and Charlie too if he wants a shot at the kid, get out here for our next CBHOF next year and we, I am sure that Randy and Rick are with me on this, will see that you have chance at taking on the "Kid"...

[kikibalt]

http://youtu.be/ybALQs8webs

Ike Williams vs Chuck Davey on radio...

Frank, funny you should mention Ike Williams, i've been watching his fight with Beau Jack 1948, what a fighter..

Williams is one of my 5 top LW's of all time....

[raylawpc]

Thank You Randy, The pleasure will be all mine as to greet all my friends at CAWCB.

You will be in for a treat, Chuck. Randy and his friend Ed sat at my table at last year's CBHOF banquet. Two great guys and, along with Frank and Rick, made me feel very welcome at the banquet. It was the first time I'd met any of them, but they quickly put me at ease, and I felt like I'd known them my whole life.

The only thing I'm pissed about is that those guys never told me about the Manuel's Special. I'd like to have had a crack at that burrito! Instead, I was stuck eating sushi in Studio City the night before, and a hotdog at some shitty diner after the banquet.

Tom, you want to take on Kid Burrito A.K.A Manuel Special??, you, and Charlie too if he wants a shot at the kid, get out here for our next CBHOF next year and we, I am sure that Randy and Rick are with me on this, will see that you have chance at taking on the "Kid"...

I'm gonna take you up on that!

[raylawpc]

http://youtu.be/ybALQs8webs

Ike Williams vs Chuck Davey on radio...

Frank, funny you should mention Ike Williams, i've been watching his fight with Beau Jack 1948, what a fighter..

Williams is one of my 5 top LW's of all time....

S m o o t h fighter! Never a wasted punch; never off balance.

[Rick Farris]

http://youtu.be/ybALQs8webs

Ike Williams vs Chuck Davey on radio...

Frank, funny you should mention Ike Williams, i've been watching his fight with Beau Jack 1948, what a fighter..

Williams is one of my 5 top LW's of all time....

Mine too! One of my top ten favorite boxers of any weight.

[kikibalt]

You will be in for a treat, Chuck. Randy and his friend Ed sat at my table at last year's CBHOF banquet. Two great guys and, along with Frank and Rick, made me feel very welcome at the banquet. It was the first time I'd met any of them, but they quickly put me at ease, and I felt like I'd known them my whole life.

The only thing I'm pissed about is that those guys never told me about the Manuel's Special. I'd like to have had a crack at that burrito! Instead, I was stuck eating sushi in Studio City the night before, and a hotdog at some shitty diner after the banquet.

Tom, you want to take on Kid Burrito A.K.A Manuel Special??, you, and Charlie too if he wants a shot at the kid, get out here for our next CBHOF next year and we, I am sure that Randy and Rick are with me on this, will see that you have chance at taking on the "Kid"...

I'm gonna take you up on that!

Start training...

[Rick Farris]

You will be in for a treat, Chuck. Randy and his friend Ed sat at my table at last year's CBHOF banquet. Two great guys and, along with Frank and Rick, made me feel very welcome at the banquet. It was the first time I'd met any of them, but they quickly put me at ease, and I felt like I'd known them my whole life.

The only thing I'm pissed about is that those guys never told me about the Manuel's Special. I'd like to have had a crack at that burrito! Instead, I was stuck eating sushi in Studio City the night before, and a hotdog at some shitty diner after the banquet.

Tom, you want to take on Kid Burrito A.K.A Manuel Special??, you, and Charlie too if he wants a shot at the kid, get out here for our next CBHOF next year and we, I am sure that Randy and Rick are with me on this, will see that you have chance at taking on the "Kid"...

I'm gonna take you up on that!

It's a great spot to visit. It seems as if there is a line to get in all day long. However, you never wait long to sit down & eat.
The staff is great, nice people with great food and prices.

[Rick Farris]

http://youtu.be/ybALQs8webs

Ike Williams vs Chuck Davey on radio...

Frank, funny you should mention Ike Williams, i've been watching his fight with Beau Jack 1948, what a fighter..

I remember that in one of their fights, Williams is pounding Beau Jack in the corner. Jack refuses to quit, but is being pounded.
Williams holds Beau Jack off with his left hand and turns to the ref, "Are you waiting for me to kill the man?"
The ref does nothing, Williams continues to punch, and the bout is finally stopped.
A classic HBO documentary hosted by Larry Merchant & Mike Tyson focusing on "Brutal Knockouts" features this bout.
A great interview with both fighters is perhaps the best I've ever seen. They just don't make men or boxers like that anymore.
I realized after seeing that great interview, the importance of the words of legendary champs long after they have retired.
That's what Dan Hanley and I hope to capture in our interviews, the essence of a great boxer.

[Rick Farris]

Thank You Randy, The pleasure will be all mine as to greet all my friends at CAWCB.

You will be in for a treat, Chuck. Randy and his friend Ed sat at my table at last year's CBHOF banquet. Two great guys and, along with Frank and Rick, made me feel very welcome at the banquet. It was the first time I'd met any of them, but they quickly put me at ease, and I felt like I'd known them my whole life.

The only thing I'm pissed about is that those guys never told me about the Manuel's Special. I'd like to have had a crack at that burrito! Instead, I was stuck eating sushi in Studio City the night before, and a hotdog at some shitty diner after the banquet.

Tom, you want to take on Kid Burrito A.K.A Manuel Special??, you, and Charlie too if he wants a shot at the kid, get out here for our next CBHOF next year and we, I am sure that Randy and Rick are with me on this, will see that you have chance at taking on the "Kid"...

Tom, next time we'll make sure you get to ELA for Kid Burrito. I live in Studio City and think I know where you got the Hot Dog? Was it in a diner that was once a train car? If you are staying at the Sportsman's Lodge I'll be very close so I can provide you with transportation, and I also want to take you over to Art's Deli where Monica works. That's usually the slow time of the year for film making, so I make it a point to be available for all my CAWCB friends. Wild Card Gym is also close.
Look forward to you and Charlie joining us next year. I'll make sure you both get where ever you need to go while you are here.

[raylawpc]

You will be in for a treat, Chuck. Randy and his friend Ed sat at my table at last year's CBHOF banquet. Two great guys and, along with Frank and Rick, made me feel very welcome at the banquet. It was the first time I'd met any of them, but they quickly put me at ease, and I felt like I'd known them my whole life.

The only thing I'm pissed about is that those guys never told me about the Manuel's Special. I'd like to have had a crack at that burrito! Instead, I was stuck eating sushi in Studio City the night before, and a hotdog at some shitty diner after the banquet.

Tom, you want to take on Kid Burrito A.K.A Manuel Special??, you, and Charlie too if he wants a shot at the kid, get out here for our next CBHOF next year and we, I am sure that Randy and Rick are with me on this, will see that you have chance at taking on the "Kid"...

Tom, next time we'll make sure you get to ELA for Kid Burrito. I live in Studio City and think I know where you got the Hot Dog? Was it in a diner that was once a train car? If you are staying at the Sportsman's Lodge I'll be very close so I can provide you with transportation, and I also want to take you over to Art's Deli where Monica works. That's usually the slow time of the year for film making, so I make it a point to be available for all my CAWCB friends. Wild Card Gym is also close.
Look forward to you and Charlie joining us next year. I'll make sure you both get where ever you need to go while you are here.

That was the place - just down the street from the lodge. Great ambiance; shitty hotdog.

[Rick Farris]

Tom, you want to take on Kid Burrito A.K.A Manuel Special??, you, and Charlie too if he wants a shot at the kid, get out here for our next CBHOF next year and we, I am sure that Randy and Rick are with me on this, will see that you have chance at taking on the "Kid"...

Tom, next time we'll make sure you get to ELA for Kid Burrito. I live in Studio City and think I know where you got the Hot Dog? Was it in a diner that was once a train car? If you are staying at the Sportsman's Lodge I'll be very close so I can provide you with transportation, and I also want to take you over to Art's Deli where Monica works. That's usually the slow time of the year for film making, so I make it a point to be available for all my CAWCB friends. Wild Card Gym is also close.
Look forward to you and Charlie joining us next year. I'll make sure you both get where ever you need to go while you are here.

That was the place - just down the street from the lodge. Great ambiance; shitty hotdog.

Agreed. Hamburgers are bad there, too. They used to have one over the hill on Sunset. I guesss they figure the train car is some sort of novelty?
A couple blocks farther down, across the street, is Art's Deli. Better than Jerry's Deli which is near the train diner.
There are quite a few Sushi places in the area, some are as good as you'll find anywhere, Teru Sushi for one. A few are just average.

All in all you are close to everything, you can get anywhere you might wish to go in L.A. in less than a half hour.

Teru Sushi . . .
http://www.terusushi.com/gallery.html

[raylawpc]

Tom, next time we'll make sure you get to ELA for Kid Burrito. I live in Studio City and think I know where you got the Hot Dog? Was it in a diner that was once a train car? If you are staying at the Sportsman's Lodge I'll be very close so I can provide you with transportation, and I also want to take you over to Art's Deli where Monica works. That's usually the slow time of the year for film making, so I make it a point to be available for all my CAWCB friends. Wild Card Gym is also close.
Look forward to you and Charlie joining us next year. I'll make sure you both get where ever you need to go while you are here.

That was the place - just down the street from the lodge. Great ambiance; shitty hotdog.

Agreed. Hamburgers are bad there, too. They used to have one over the hill on Sunset. I guesss they figure the train car is some sort of novelty?
A couple blocks farther down, across the street, is Art's Deli. Better than Jerry's Deli which is near the train diner.
There are quite a few Sushi places in the area, some are as good as you'll find anywhere, Teru Sushi for one. A few are just average.

All in all you are close to everything, you can get anywhere you might wish to go in L.A. in less than a half hour.

Teru Sushi . . .
http://www.terusushi.com/gallery.html

The train car drew me in; the hotdog made me wish I'd kept going. I wish I'd known of Art's Deli. I like Deli food.

[Randyman]

"Walk like an Indian" Mel would say ""Keep your feet straight, point your toes in a little". "Why?" I would ask. "Builds your legs up, why do you think Indians can walk for miles?"He would say "Besides, you walk like a f*cking duck, that's not good for a guy that wants to fight".

Mel had several running themes that he would share with his fighters through the years. Rick and I were discussing this about a week or so. Of course when Mel said Indian, he was speaking of Native Americans, not the Indians from India. i have no idea if they walk straight or not. Mel was, as he would put it, was a "student of kinesiology", the study of the muscle groups and the mechanics of muscular movements, and other stuff I still don't understand. the thing is, he understood them and took them serious too. He was also an expert massuer, and his knowledge of kinesiology played a big part in that.

He said one time that he had several women disrobe for him, wives of some men he knew professionally. I gave that knowing look and grin and he would say "cut it out, I was a professional masseur". he would get angry that I might even think there would be any hanky panky. No, with Mel Epstein you can be assured when it came to women, there would be no hanky panky.

Anyway, I was thinking about all this when I was running this morning. I looked down at my feet and then I looked up toward the sky and said almost in a whisper "I know Mel, I know, just like a f*cking duck!

[raylawpc]

I grew up around Indians. They walk just like everybody else. But it doesn't matter. The point is that your mentor Mel would use word pictures to teach you what he wanted you to learn. The fact you remember what he said in such detail 40 years later shows that he was an excellent teacher.

[Rick Farris]

I grew up around Indians. They walk just like everybody else. But it doesn't matter. The point is that your mentor Mel would use word pictures to teach you what he wanted you to learn. The fact you remember what he said in such detail 40 years later shows that he was an excellent teacher.

You bet he was!
"Walk like an Indian"


But this was Mel . . .

Mel had so much inside, but he was different. His personality alienated him more than once in life.
Mel and Young Firpo were often at odds, and one could understand the tension.
Parnassus and Suey Welched liked Mel to a point, knew of his true skills, but they also knew he was contrary and difficult.
Don Fraser knew the same thing. One night in July of 1972 I had a rough fight at the Forum, toe-to-toe on TV.
We both left the ring busted up, busted noses, cuts over eyes, one of those six-rounders that went back & forth, etc.
The following monday, I get a call from Don Fraser, who got my number from Suey Welch.
Fraser invites me to the fights that night and asks me to step into the ring to take a bow before the main event.
So I arrive with my girlfriend and her dad at the Forum and take seats not to far from the ring. We save a seat for Mel, who came with Jerry Beldering.
I deliberatly didn't tell Mel that I was going to be introduced because he thought I looked like crap in the fight and didn't want me rewarded or acknowledged.
That was just how he was. I was 20, had been fighting pro more than two years, wasn't going anywhere, so what difference does it make?
Mel takes a seat next to us and he keeps looking at me with his eyes squinting, like he knows something is up.
Suddenly Don Fraser is seen walking toward us. He points to me and I stand up. "Come with me", Fraser said.
I got up and saw Mel's eyes glaring like, "What in the hell is this?" I follow Don up the stairs toward the Forum Club, which was right next to his office.
Don unlocks his office door and invited me in. He walks to his desk and opens a drawer. He reaches in and pulls out a box, a jewelry type box.
He hands it to me and says that this was a present for putting on such a good fight the week before. It was a Seco watch, a nice one.
We returned to ringside and I sit down. Mel is all over me, "What in the hell was that?"
I show Mel the watch, Mel looks at the watch and goes into a tantrum, "You don't deserve a watch, you looked like a bum last week. You were out all hours, I could see it in your eyes, you had one of your saturday night specials two nights before the fight and you was no good. Now they reward you." Mel told me I should give the watch back. I told him No way.
Mel suddenly clammed up, silent. It was the loudest silence you could imagine. His arms folded in front of his chest, occasionally shooting a comment to his invisable friend, but he wasn't just being contrary, he was mad.
So we watch the semi-main and there is an intermission.
As the boxers leave the ring interviews are taking place at ringside, Tom Harmon is talking to Frankie Crawford for KTLA-Ch-5.
A moment later Don returns to where we are sitting and motions me over. Mel see this and barks, "What does he want now?"
I tell him, "I'm going to take a bow." that was more than Mel could take, he stood up and told me that I better not take a bow or that we were finished.
I stood up and said, "Then we're done." I went up into the ring, along with Frankie Crawford, and we were both introduced to the crowd on TV.
Fraser watched the whole thing and told Mel to sit down, "let him be introduced, he earned it!" Mel sat down, he was livid.
Mel's ride had left early and I was giving him a ride home. He didn't say a word on the way home. Not one word.

[Rick Farris]

"Walk like an Indian" Mel would say ""Keep your feet straight, point your toes in a little". "Why?" I would ask. "Builds your legs up, why do you think Indians can walk for miles?"He would say "Besides, you walk like a f*cking duck, that's not good for a guy that wants to fight".

Mel had several running themes that he would share with his fighters through the years. Rick and I were discussing this about a week or so. Of course when Mel said Indian, he was speaking of Native Americans, not the Indians from India. i have no idea if they walk straight or not. Mel was, as he would put it, was a "student of kinesiology", the study of the muscle groups and the mechanics of muscular movements, and other stuff I still don't understand. the thing is, he understood them and took them serious too. He was also an expert massuer, and his knowledge of kinesiology played a big part in that.

He said one time that he had several women disrobe for him, wives of some men he knew professionally. I gave that knowing look and grin and he would say "cut it out, I was a professional masseur". he would get angry that I might even think there would be any hanky panky. No, with Mel Epstein you can be assured when it came to women, there would be no hanky panky.

Anyway, I was thinking about all this when I was running this morning. I looked down at my feet and then I looked up toward the sky and said almost in a whisper "I know Mel, I know, just like a f*cking duck!

Great story, Randy. I remember Mel told me the same thing about massaging his friend's wives.
We got the same stories, glad you remember the ones that slipped my mind.

[CNorkusJr]

http://youtu.be/ybALQs8webs

Ike Williams vs Chuck Davey on radio...

Frank, funny you should mention Ike Williams, i've been watching his fight with Beau Jack 1948, what a fighter..

I remember that in one of their fights, Williams is pounding Beau Jack in the corner. Jack refuses to quit, but is being pounded.
Williams holds Beau Jack off with his left hand and turns to the ref, "Are you waiting for me to kill the man?"
The ref does nothing, Williams continues to punch, and the bout is finally stopped.
A classic HBO documentary hosted by Larry Merchant & Mike Tyson focusing on "Brutal Knockouts" features this bout.
A great interview with both fighters is perhaps the best I've ever seen. They just don't make men or boxers like that anymore.
I realized after seeing that great interview, the importance of the words of legendary champs long after they have retired.
That's what Dan Hanley and I hope to capture in our interviews, the essence of a great boxer.

[Rick Farris]

Fireworks . . .

I live less than a half block from the CBS Studio Center in Studio City.
Every year the studio hosts the Valley's biggest Fireworks exhibition on July 4th.
That means my little village is converged upon by hundreds of people.
It's all pretty cool, there's never any trouble. Monica and I don't care much about fireworks.
Even so, when dark falls and we hear the explosions, we step out on the back porch, and watch.
When I was two, my parents bought a home in Orange County, Garden Grove was the city. Today it's a Viet Namese enclave.
We were less than three miles from Disneyland, we came in 1954, and year later Disneyland was born in Anaheim.
We'd live there ten years, and move back to Burbank, and I'd begin boxing shortly afterwards.
For nine of my first twelve years, I always knew when it was 9pm, because 365 days a year, Disneyland would put on a 3-minute firework show.
It was a 3 minute show all but July 4th, when they would put on an hour long pyro exhibition.
I remember as a little boy, laying in my bed and hearing the pop-pop-pop of fireworks exploding in the nearby sky.
The neighborhood changed over the years. Today you might hear "pop-pop-pop" at any hour, but if not 9pm the noise isn't coming from Disneyland.
Channel 9 is actually showing this fireworks show on TV, 9pm.

[raylawpc]

I grew up around Indians. They walk just like everybody else. But it doesn't matter. The point is that your mentor Mel would use word pictures to teach you what he wanted you to learn. The fact you remember what he said in such detail 40 years later shows that he was an excellent teacher.

You bet he was!
"Walk like an Indian"


But this was Mel . . .

Mel had so much inside, but he was different. His personality alienated him more than once in life.
Mel and Young Firpo were often at odds, and one could understand the tension.
Parnassus and Suey Welched liked Mel to a point, knew of his true skills, but they also knew he was contrary and difficult.
Don Fraser knew the same thing. One night in July of 1972 I had a rough fight at the Forum, toe-to-toe on TV.
We both left the ring busted up, busted noses, cuts over eyes, one of those six-rounders that went back & forth, etc.
The following monday, I get a call from Don Fraser, who got my number from Suey Welch.
Fraser invites me to the fights that night and asks me to step into the ring to take a bow before the main event.
So I arrive with my girlfriend and her dad at the Forum and take seats not to far from the ring. We save a seat for Mel, who came with Jerry Beldering.
I deliberatly didn't tell Mel that I was going to be introduced because he thought I looked like crap in the fight and didn't want me rewarded or acknowledged.
That was just how he was. I was 20, had been fighting pro more than two years, wasn't going anywhere, so what difference does it make?
Mel takes a seat next to us and he keeps looking at me with his eyes squinting, like he knows something is up.
Suddenly Don Fraser is seen walking toward us. He points to me and I stand up. "Come with me", Fraser said.
I got up and saw Mel's eyes glaring like, "What in the hell is this?" I follow Don up the stairs toward the Forum Club, which was right next to his office.
Don unlocks his office door and invited me in. He walks to his desk and opens a drawer. He reaches in and pulls out a box, a jewelry type box.
He hands it to me and says that this was a present for putting on such a good fight the week before. It was a Seco watch, a nice one.
We returned to ringside and I sit down. Mel is all over me, "What in the hell was that?"
I show Mel the watch, Mel looks at the watch and goes into a tantrum, "You don't deserve a watch, you looked like a bum last week. You were out all hours, I could see it in your eyes, you had one of your saturday night specials two nights before the fight and you was no good. Now they reward you." Mel told me I should give the watch back. I told him No way.
Mel suddenly clammed up, silent. It was the loudest silence you could imagine. His arms folded in front of his chest, occasionally shooting a comment to his invisable friend, but he wasn't just being contrary, he was mad.
So we watch the semi-main and there is an intermission.
As the boxers leave the ring interviews are taking place at ringside, Tom Harmon is talking to Frankie Crawford for KTLA-Ch-5.
A moment later Don returns to where we are sitting and motions me over. Mel see this and barks, "What does he want now?"
I tell him, "I'm going to take a bow." that was more than Mel could take, he stood up and told me that I better not take a bow or that we were finished.
I stood up and said, "Then we're done." I went up into the ring, along with Frankie Crawford, and we were both introduced to the crowd on TV.
Fraser watched the whole thing and told Mel to sit down, "let him be introduced, he earned it!" Mel sat down, he was livid.
Mel's ride had left early and I was giving him a ride home. He didn't say a word on the way home. Not one word.

I thought you were gonna say that Mel wanted to wear the watch on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesday mornings as his cut of the purse.

[CNorkusJr]

I grew up around Indians. They walk just like everybody else. But it doesn't matter. The point is that your mentor Mel would use word pictures to teach you what he wanted you to learn. The fact you remember what he said in such detail 40 years later shows that he was an excellent teacher.

You bet he was!
"Walk like an Indian"


But this was Mel . . .

Mel had so much inside, but he was different. His personality alienated him more than once in life.
Mel and Young Firpo were often at odds, and one could understand the tension.
Parnassus and Suey Welched liked Mel to a point, knew of his true skills, but they also knew he was contrary and difficult.
Don Fraser knew the same thing. One night in July of 1972 I had a rough fight at the Forum, toe-to-toe on TV.
We both left the ring busted up, busted noses, cuts over eyes, one of those six-rounders that went back & forth, etc.
The following monday, I get a call from Don Fraser, who got my number from Suey Welch.
Fraser invites me to the fights that night and asks me to step into the ring to take a bow before the main event.
So I arrive with my girlfriend and her dad at the Forum and take seats not to far from the ring. We save a seat for Mel, who came with Jerry Beldering.
I deliberatly didn't tell Mel that I was going to be introduced because he thought I looked like crap in the fight and didn't want me rewarded or acknowledged.
That was just how he was. I was 20, had been fighting pro more than two years, wasn't going anywhere, so what difference does it make?
Mel takes a seat next to us and he keeps looking at me with his eyes squinting, like he knows something is up.
Suddenly Don Fraser is seen walking toward us. He points to me and I stand up. "Come with me", Fraser said.
I got up and saw Mel's eyes glaring like, "What in the hell is this?" I follow Don up the stairs toward the Forum Club, which was right next to his office.
Don unlocks his office door and invited me in. He walks to his desk and opens a drawer. He reaches in and pulls out a box, a jewelry type box.
He hands it to me and says that this was a present for putting on such a good fight the week before. It was a Seco watch, a nice one.
We returned to ringside and I sit down. Mel is all over me, "What in the hell was that?"
I show Mel the watch, Mel looks at the watch and goes into a tantrum, "You don't deserve a watch, you looked like a bum last week. You were out all hours, I could see it in your eyes, you had one of your saturday night specials two nights before the fight and you was no good. Now they reward you." Mel told me I should give the watch back. I told him No way.
Mel suddenly clammed up, silent. It was the loudest silence you could imagine. His arms folded in front of his chest, occasionally shooting a comment to his invisable friend, but he wasn't just being contrary, he was mad.
So we watch the semi-main and there is an intermission.
As the boxers leave the ring interviews are taking place at ringside, Tom Harmon is talking to Frankie Crawford for KTLA-Ch-5.
A moment later Don returns to where we are sitting and motions me over. Mel see this and barks, "What does he want now?"
I tell him, "I'm going to take a bow." that was more than Mel could take, he stood up and told me that I better not take a bow or that we were finished.
I stood up and said, "Then we're done." I went up into the ring, along with Frankie Crawford, and we were both introduced to the crowd on TV.
Fraser watched the whole thing and told Mel to sit down, "let him be introduced, he earned it!" Mel sat down, he was livid.
Mel's ride had left early and I was giving him a ride home. He didn't say a word on the way home. Not one word.

Wow, Thats tough. Mel sounds like a couple of Battalion Chiefs I used to work with in the Fire Dept. They didn't believe in "pats on the back" under any circumstances. They were throwbacks from tougher times and saw a hell of alot more fires than we as younger guys could ever experience. Attaboys were rare, but if you ever did get one, you were on cloud nine for a month. Usually within a week after getting one, they would be on you for something else-so much for that attaboy.
After your career is all said and done, you realize a pat on the back went a long way for morale, but those old Chiefs attaboys are long remembered.
I dont have that old school tough ass attitude, I would have been a lousy fire boss, very happy with being a "Indian" close to the fires in my 20 years.

[Rick Farris]

I grew up around Indians. They walk just like everybody else. But it doesn't matter. The point is that your mentor Mel would use word pictures to teach you what he wanted you to learn. The fact you remember what he said in such detail 40 years later shows that he was an excellent teacher.

You bet he was!
"Walk like an Indian"


But this was Mel . . .

Mel had so much inside, but he was different. His personality alienated him more than once in life.
Mel and Young Firpo were often at odds, and one could understand the tension.
Parnassus and Suey Welched liked Mel to a point, knew of his true skills, but they also knew he was contrary and difficult.
Don Fraser knew the same thing. One night in July of 1972 I had a rough fight at the Forum, toe-to-toe on TV.
We both left the ring busted up, busted noses, cuts over eyes, one of those six-rounders that went back & forth, etc.
The following monday, I get a call from Don Fraser, who got my number from Suey Welch.
Fraser invites me to the fights that night and asks me to step into the ring to take a bow before the main event.
So I arrive with my girlfriend and her dad at the Forum and take seats not to far from the ring. We save a seat for Mel, who came with Jerry Beldering.
I deliberatly didn't tell Mel that I was going to be introduced because he thought I looked like crap in the fight and didn't want me rewarded or acknowledged.
That was just how he was. I was 20, had been fighting pro more than two years, wasn't going anywhere, so what difference does it make?
Mel takes a seat next to us and he keeps looking at me with his eyes squinting, like he knows something is up.
Suddenly Don Fraser is seen walking toward us. He points to me and I stand up. "Come with me", Fraser said.
I got up and saw Mel's eyes glaring like, "What in the hell is this?" I follow Don up the stairs toward the Forum Club, which was right next to his office.
Don unlocks his office door and invited me in. He walks to his desk and opens a drawer. He reaches in and pulls out a box, a jewelry type box.
He hands it to me and says that this was a present for putting on such a good fight the week before. It was a Seco watch, a nice one.
We returned to ringside and I sit down. Mel is all over me, "What in the hell was that?"
I show Mel the watch, Mel looks at the watch and goes into a tantrum, "You don't deserve a watch, you looked like a bum last week. You were out all hours, I could see it in your eyes, you had one of your saturday night specials two nights before the fight and you was no good. Now they reward you." Mel told me I should give the watch back. I told him No way.
Mel suddenly clammed up, silent. It was the loudest silence you could imagine. His arms folded in front of his chest, occasionally shooting a comment to his invisable friend, but he wasn't just being contrary, he was mad.
So we watch the semi-main and there is an intermission.
As the boxers leave the ring interviews are taking place at ringside, Tom Harmon is talking to Frankie Crawford for KTLA-Ch-5.
A moment later Don returns to where we are sitting and motions me over. Mel see this and barks, "What does he want now?"
I tell him, "I'm going to take a bow." that was more than Mel could take, he stood up and told me that I better not take a bow or that we were finished.
I stood up and said, "Then we're done." I went up into the ring, along with Frankie Crawford, and we were both introduced to the crowd on TV.
Fraser watched the whole thing and told Mel to sit down, "let him be introduced, he earned it!" Mel sat down, he was livid.
Mel's ride had left early and I was giving him a ride home. He didn't say a word on the way home. Not one word.

I thought you were gonna say that Mel wanted to wear the watch on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesday mornings as his cut of the purse.

Tom, if I handed the watch to Mel as a gift, he'd have tossed it in the garbage. He'd have no part of it.
By the way, I still remember the purse and my cut. A Mando Muniz main event, I was in the semi-main.
6 rds- $150. I got $90. Mel got $45. Johnny Villaflore got $15. Mel spent more than $45 on me before a fight, he just did it. I never asked for anything, but he wanted things his way and would pay for that control. What to eat, etc. Her never made a dime on me, his cut never covered what I knew he spent. Mel was a highly evolved personality, when he died I know he could look anybody in the eye, God himself.

[raylawpc]

You bet he was!
"Walk like an Indian"


But this was Mel . . .

Mel had so much inside, but he was different. His personality alienated him more than once in life.
Mel and Young Firpo were often at odds, and one could understand the tension.
Parnassus and Suey Welched liked Mel to a point, knew of his true skills, but they also knew he was contrary and difficult.
Don Fraser knew the same thing. One night in July of 1972 I had a rough fight at the Forum, toe-to-toe on TV.
We both left the ring busted up, busted noses, cuts over eyes, one of those six-rounders that went back & forth, etc.
The following monday, I get a call from Don Fraser, who got my number from Suey Welch.
Fraser invites me to the fights that night and asks me to step into the ring to take a bow before the main event.
So I arrive with my girlfriend and her dad at the Forum and take seats not to far from the ring. We save a seat for Mel, who came with Jerry Beldering.
I deliberatly didn't tell Mel that I was going to be introduced because he thought I looked like crap in the fight and didn't want me rewarded or acknowledged.
That was just how he was. I was 20, had been fighting pro more than two years, wasn't going anywhere, so what difference does it make?
Mel takes a seat next to us and he keeps looking at me with his eyes squinting, like he knows something is up.
Suddenly Don Fraser is seen walking toward us. He points to me and I stand up. "Come with me", Fraser said.
I got up and saw Mel's eyes glaring like, "What in the hell is this?" I follow Don up the stairs toward the Forum Club, which was right next to his office.
Don unlocks his office door and invited me in. He walks to his desk and opens a drawer. He reaches in and pulls out a box, a jewelry type box.
He hands it to me and says that this was a present for putting on such a good fight the week before. It was a Seco watch, a nice one.
We returned to ringside and I sit down. Mel is all over me, "What in the hell was that?"
I show Mel the watch, Mel looks at the watch and goes into a tantrum, "You don't deserve a watch, you looked like a bum last week. You were out all hours, I could see it in your eyes, you had one of your saturday night specials two nights before the fight and you was no good. Now they reward you." Mel told me I should give the watch back. I told him No way.
Mel suddenly clammed up, silent. It was the loudest silence you could imagine. His arms folded in front of his chest, occasionally shooting a comment to his invisable friend, but he wasn't just being contrary, he was mad.
So we watch the semi-main and there is an intermission.
As the boxers leave the ring interviews are taking place at ringside, Tom Harmon is talking to Frankie Crawford for KTLA-Ch-5.
A moment later Don returns to where we are sitting and motions me over. Mel see this and barks, "What does he want now?"
I tell him, "I'm going to take a bow." that was more than Mel could take, he stood up and told me that I better not take a bow or that we were finished.
I stood up and said, "Then we're done." I went up into the ring, along with Frankie Crawford, and we were both introduced to the crowd on TV.
Fraser watched the whole thing and told Mel to sit down, "let him be introduced, he earned it!" Mel sat down, he was livid.
Mel's ride had left early and I was giving him a ride home. He didn't say a word on the way home. Not one word.

I thought you were gonna say that Mel wanted to wear the watch on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesday mornings as his cut of the purse.

Tom, if I handed the watch to Mel as a gift, he'd have tossed it in the garbage. He'd have no part of it.
By the way, I still remember the purse and my cut. A Mando Muniz main event, I was in the semi-main.
6 rds- $150. I got $90. Mel got $45. Johnny Villaflore got $15. Mel spent more than $45 on me before a fight, he just did it. I never asked for anything, but he wanted things his way and would pay for that control. What to eat, etc. Her never made a dime on me, his cut never covered what I knew he spent. Mel was a highly evolved personality, when he died I know he could look anybody in the eye, God himself.

A rare man indeed. A lot of managers would have wanted to figure out how to get their cut from that watch.