BoxRec

cam2010 wrote: ↑20 Nov 2020, 14:54

Jimmy2020 wrote: ↑20 Nov 2020, 14:27 I'd not have anything to do with MTK. No way I'd want my children and grandchildren to look back at me being associated with them.

So you wouldn’t mind your offspring knowing you would associate with Mcguigan who is a thief hiding behind a cloak of respectability.

Strawman. I didn't say that, did I?

watsupdoc87 wrote: ↑20 Nov 2020, 14:21 Also not everyone wants to be associated with mtk. There's been trouble before with them trying get lads to sign for them that didn't want to

Who?

'I despise them’: Carl Frampton breaks silence on split with McGuigans

Carl Frampton has opened up about the total breakdown in his relationship with former promoter Barry McGuigan after the highly-publicised court battle between the pair.

Frampton was suing his ex-manager and Cyclone Promotions for alleged withheld earnings but the case was settled back in November, with the boxer saying that he was "extremely happy" with the outcome and was "glad this chapter of (his) life is now behind" him.

He was claiming up to £6m against Cyclone Promotions UK Ltd - of which Mr McGuigan was a director - over purse fees, broadcasting rights, ticket sales and merchandising.

In a counter suit, Mr McGuigan claimed a one-time protege he had treated like a son was in breach of contract by quitting his Cyclone organisation in August 2017.

Both men denied any wrongdoing throughout the case.

Now Frampton has shed some light on the "sad" and total breakdown in relationship between the pair, though he admitted his former associates are “very good boxing people”.

It was with the Cyclone Promotions label that Frampton won world titles in two weight divisions, working alongside the McGuigans, including Barry’s son and boxing trainer Shane, for a total of eight years.

During that time, friendships became so close that Frampton admits they were "pretty much" like family but now, over three years on from their split in 2017, he says his feelings toward them have turned completely sour.

“There’s no relationship,” he said on the ‘Anything Goes’ podcast with James English. “It was settled so no-one can say they won or anything but what I can say is that I’m very happy with the settlement.

“I despise them, all of them. Hate them. It’s just the way it is.

“It is sad but it does happen in boxing. I like to think of myself as a nice guy ... I loved these guys. I had Shane and Jake (another of Barry’s three sons) McGuigan as groomsmen at my wedding, I was a groomsman at Shane’s wedding; pretty much (like brothers).

“But I have a deep hatred for them now; all of them ... I genuinely mean that; hate them.”

Since joining up with his new trainer Jamie Moore, Frampton has won five of his six fights, beaten only in an IBF World Featherweight title bout against Josh Warrington.

Now having moved up to Super Featherweight, the Jackal is gearing up for his chance to become Ireland’s first three-weight world champion when he faces Jamel Herring next month.

But regardless of any success, he has frequently claimed that he has never enjoyed his boxing more than he has under Moore’s tutelage.

“I’m genuinely delighted I made that move,” he continued. “I never enjoyed boxing when I was with the McGuigans. There are interviews of me saying ‘I can’t wait until I’m 30 because I’m going to retire. I hate this game’.

“Barry’s a very knowledgeable boxing person. He knows boxing inside out. Shane is a very good trainer as well. I’ll always be honest and say they’re very good boxing people but I just don’t like them.”

Frampton went on to reveal that he has no interest in becoming a trainer or manager once his own fighting days come to an end due to the "politics" of the sport but is excited to undertake more punditry work to remain involved in boxing.

Barry should know better. He was ripped off by his manager Barney Eastwood, so you would have thought he would have been fair to his fighter...

Sounds like the abused becoming an abuser.

As more things are made public the more shocked
I become.

I had a number of dealings with Mcguigans when i was with Hayemaker and also when I was with the WBSS … apart from the younger Mcguigan his name escapes me, but Shane & Barry were a pleasure to work with.

Barry regularly texts me to see how my illness is.

I am genuinely shocked by this

Spud wrote: ↑01 Oct 2023, 11:07 As more things are made public the more shocked
I become.

I had a number of dealings with Mcguigans when i was with Hayemaker and also when I was with the WBSS … apart from the younger Mcguigan his name escapes me, but Shane & Barry were a pleasure to work with.

Barry regularly texts me to see how my illness is.

I am genuinely shocked by this

other sons are Blaine and Jake, I think Blaine was the one more heavily involved in Cyclone/the fleecing.

People can be really nice to your face and to deal with but you never really know them. They present different facades to different audiences.

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑01 Oct 2023, 15:11

Spud wrote: ↑01 Oct 2023, 11:07 As more things are made public the more shocked
I become.

I had a number of dealings with Mcguigans when i was with Hayemaker and also when I was with the WBSS … apart from the younger Mcguigan his name escapes me, but Shane & Barry were a pleasure to work with.

Barry regularly texts me to see how my illness is.

I am genuinely shocked by this

other sons are Blaine and Jake, I think Blaine was the one more heavily involved in Cyclone/the fleecing.

People can be really nice to your face and to deal with but you never really know them. They present different facades to different audiences.

Some people just love a pound note

I find it very hard to have any kind of sympathy with Frampton when he went & signed with a mass murderer straight after leaving the McGuigans. His comments about MTK in the book are pathetic & show that he’s a liar which makes me question anything else in the book.

If they were taking more than they should that’s obviously out of order but I would argue that there’s not a single manager & trainer that’s done better for a fighter in the ring than Barry & Shane McGuigan. You get some managers of world champions taking their 10% or more cut & no one knows who they are.

Barry made him into a star. That PPV against Quigg came from Barry selling the fight. He was everywhere hyping Frampton up ever since he turned pro. Without the McGuigan’s I don’t think he would’ve won a world title or been much of a star beyond Northern Ireland. I’d imagine 50% of what he earned with them would’ve been far more than 80% of what he would’ve earned without them. He was pretty useless without them. I know fighters can ‘age overnight’ but he wasn’t old & hadn’t had many wars he just lost the best trainer in the country & regressed massively because of it.

As for his comments that he ‘pity’s’ them. I’d imagine it’s more like they pity him. Shane’s the best trainer in the country whilst Frampton’s trying to flog a book bad mouthing them & made a right tit of himself when Billam-Smith fought McCarthy.

a force wrote: ↑01 Oct 2023, 16:06 I find it very hard to have any kind of sympathy with Frampton when he went & signed with a mass murderer straight after leaving the McGuigans. His comments about MTK in the book are pathetic & show that he’s a liar which makes me question anything else in the book.

If they were taking more than they should that’s obviously out of order but I would argue that there’s not a single manager & trainer that’s done better for a fighter in the ring than Barry & Shane McGuigan. You get some managers of world champions taking their 10% or more cut & no one knows who they are.

Barry made him into a star. That PPV against Quigg came from Barry selling the fight. He was everywhere hyping Frampton up ever since he turned pro. Without the McGuigan’s I don’t think he would’ve won a world title or been much of a star beyond Northern Ireland. I’d imagine 50% of what he earned with them would’ve been far more than 80% of what he would’ve earned without them. He was pretty useless without them. I know fighters can ‘age overnight’ but he wasn’t old & hadn’t had many wars he just lost the best trainer in the country & regressed massively because of it.

As for his comments that he ‘pity’s’ them. I’d imagine it’s more like they pity him. Shane’s the best trainer in the country whilst Frampton’s trying to flog a book bad mouthing them & made a right tit of himself when Billam-Smith fought McCarthy.

you're right re MTK and him signing with a death squad. He deserves nothing but condemnation for that. However, the McGuigans were guilty as sin though, have you read the details? Really scummy activities. You can't say DK is evil therefore McGuigans are lovely.

a force wrote: ↑01 Oct 2023, 16:06 I find it very hard to have any kind of sympathy with Frampton when he went & signed with a mass murderer straight after leaving the McGuigans. His comments about MTK in the book are pathetic & show that he’s a liar which makes me question anything else in the book.

If they were taking more than they should that’s obviously out of order but I would argue that there’s not a single manager & trainer that’s done better for a fighter in the ring than Barry & Shane McGuigan. You get some managers of world champions taking their 10% or more cut & no one knows who they are.

Barry made him into a star. That PPV against Quigg came from Barry selling the fight. He was everywhere hyping Frampton up ever since he turned pro. Without the McGuigan’s I don’t think he would’ve won a world title or been much of a star beyond Northern Ireland. I’d imagine 50% of what he earned with them would’ve been far more than 80% of what he would’ve earned without them. He was pretty useless without them. I know fighters can ‘age overnight’ but he wasn’t old & hadn’t had many wars he just lost the best trainer in the country & regressed massively because of it.

As for his comments that he ‘pity’s’ them. I’d imagine it’s more like they pity him. Shane’s the best trainer in the country whilst Frampton’s trying to flog a book bad mouthing them & made a right tit of himself when Billam-Smith fought McCarthy.

I have no idea who was right or wrong.

I do think, however, that Frampton had the talent to forge his path whatever.

a force wrote: ↑01 Oct 2023, 16:06Without the McGuigan’s I don’t think he would’ve won a world title or been much of a star beyond Northern Ireland. I’d imagine 50% of what he earned with them would’ve been far more than 80% of what he would’ve earned without them. He was pretty useless without them.

Useless? He won 114 amateur fights, 15 pro fights, Commonwealth and IBF inter-continental titles before Shane was shoehorned in as his trainer.

BigDoofus wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 04:08

a force wrote: ↑01 Oct 2023, 16:06Without the McGuigan’s I don’t think he would’ve won a world title or been much of a star beyond Northern Ireland. I’d imagine 50% of what he earned with them would’ve been far more than 80% of what he would’ve earned without them. He was pretty useless without them.

Useless? He won 114 amateur fights, 15 pro fights, Commonwealth and IBF inter-continental titles before Shane was shoehorned in as his trainer.

No - he was useless. He only got a silver in the European championships as an amateur. If he was good then he’d have got gold. Also only won the Irish seniors amateur title twice.

a force wrote: ↑01 Oct 2023, 16:06 I find it very hard to have any kind of sympathy with Frampton when he went & signed with a mass murderer straight after leaving the McGuigans. His comments about MTK in the book are pathetic & show that he’s a liar which makes me question anything else in the book.

If they were taking more than they should that’s obviously out of order but I would argue that there’s not a single manager & trainer that’s done better for a fighter in the ring than Barry & Shane McGuigan. You get some managers of world champions taking their 10% or more cut & no one knows who they are.

Barry made him into a star. That PPV against Quigg came from Barry selling the fight. He was everywhere hyping Frampton up ever since he turned pro. Without the McGuigan’s I don’t think he would’ve won a world title or been much of a star beyond Northern Ireland. I’d imagine 50% of what he earned with them would’ve been far more than 80% of what he would’ve earned without them. He was pretty useless without them. I know fighters can ‘age overnight’ but he wasn’t old & hadn’t had many wars he just lost the best trainer in the country & regressed massively because of it.

As for his comments that he ‘pity’s’ them. I’d imagine it’s more like they pity him. Shane’s the best trainer in the country whilst Frampton’s trying to flog a book bad mouthing them & made a right tit of himself when Billam-Smith fought McCarthy.

The logic here is also a bit twisted.

Promoter does a good job so he’s entitled to lie to his boxer?

(If that is what happened)

By useless I meant in comparison to what he was whilst with the McGuigan’s & wasn’t referencing his amateur career. That was an over exaggeration on my part.

I still think he would’ve been a good fighter. Would have headlined the Odyssey a few times but a 2 weight world champion, involved in 2 PPV fights, big Vegas & New York fights & a big enough name in the UK to get a regular punditry gig on BT? None of that happens without the McGuigan’s in my opinion.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 06:08

a force wrote: ↑01 Oct 2023, 16:06 I find it very hard to have any kind of sympathy with Frampton when he went & signed with a mass murderer straight after leaving the McGuigans. His comments about MTK in the book are pathetic & show that he’s a liar which makes me question anything else in the book.

If they were taking more than they should that’s obviously out of order but I would argue that there’s not a single manager & trainer that’s done better for a fighter in the ring than Barry & Shane McGuigan. You get some managers of world champions taking their 10% or more cut & no one knows who they are.

Barry made him into a star. That PPV against Quigg came from Barry selling the fight. He was everywhere hyping Frampton up ever since he turned pro. Without the McGuigan’s I don’t think he would’ve won a world title or been much of a star beyond Northern Ireland. I’d imagine 50% of what he earned with them would’ve been far more than 80% of what he would’ve earned without them. He was pretty useless without them. I know fighters can ‘age overnight’ but he wasn’t old & hadn’t had many wars he just lost the best trainer in the country & regressed massively because of it.

As for his comments that he ‘pity’s’ them. I’d imagine it’s more like they pity him. Shane’s the best trainer in the country whilst Frampton’s trying to flog a book bad mouthing them & made a right tit of himself when Billam-Smith fought McCarthy.

The logic here is also a bit twisted.

Promoter does a good job so he’s entitled to lie to his boxer?

(If that is what happened)

No definitely wrong & out of order.

I just have the opinion that Frampton still did really well out of that relationship

a force wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 06:12 By useless I meant in comparison to what he was whilst with the McGuigan’s & wasn’t referencing his amateur career. That was an over exaggeration on my part.

I still think he would’ve been a good fighter. Would have headlined the Odyssey a few times but a 2 weight world champion, involved in 2 PPV fights, big Vegas & New York fights & a big enough name in the UK to get a regular punditry gig on BT? None of that happens without the McGuigan’s in my opinion.

Yeah - Barry earned his 10% as a manager and Shane was/is an excellent trainer. That doesn’t make it right though that expensive lingerie bought by his son should be deducted as an expense from Frampton’s purse.

For me the writing was on the wall when Barry made it clear that Frampton would only stay with Matchroom if it was co-promotion deal rather than his promoter just being Eddie. So he just wanted to make more money out of Frampton essentially.

the whole thing praising Bazza for just managing to do his job and promote Frampton effectively is a bit OTT, IMO

like I said more than once at the time, there was an air of near-desperation in McGuigan's promotion of Frampton, the way he talked about him was just a little bit too gushing for my liking (the whole 'like my son' thing) and that very excess suggested to me that Bazza was extremely invested in Frampton. You could say that was because of the intense near-fatherly love he had for him... or, maybe it was the intense feeling someone might just get over what they see as their lifetime gravytrain (which given the huge numbers of McGuigans and illegitimate costs on the 'Frampton' payroll, would hardly be an uncharitable assumption)

obviously Macca promoted Frampton hard, his % of a good amount is far better than his % on a poor or moderate amount would be.

a force wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 06:12 None of that happens without the McGuigan’s in my opinion.

Or this?

"41 hotel rooms in Manchester, Frampton's purse withheld. lingerie and womens shoes in New York, £250 at a department store in Canterbury, £260 to a vet in Whitstable, £270 at an antiques store near Canterbury, £350 at a luxury furniture-maker in London, £365 at Marks & Spencer in Canterbury, £48 at a Tandoori restaurant in Canterbury on Christmas Eve, 855 complimentary tickets and 11 non-paying sponsors for Frampton-Martinez (the show made a "loss")

BigDoofus wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 07:18

a force wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 06:12 None of that happens without the McGuigan’s in my opinion.

Or this?

"41 hotel rooms in Manchester, Frampton's purse withheld. lingerie and womens shoes in New York, £250 at a department store in Canterbury, £260 to a vet in Whitstable, £270 at an antiques store near Canterbury, £350 at a luxury furniture-maker in London, £365 at Marks & Spencer in Canterbury, £48 at a Tandoori restaurant in Canterbury on Christmas Eve, 855 complimentary tickets and 11 non-paying sponsors for Frampton-Martinez (the show made a "loss")

I do get it, however they did manage his career beautifully- a pathway to a world title and £million purses and I wouldn't begrudge Barry a chicken madras or Sandra some fancy nick nacks!

bripez wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 08:34

BigDoofus wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 07:18

a force wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 06:12 None of that happens without the McGuigan’s in my opinion.

Or this?

"41 hotel rooms in Manchester, Frampton's purse withheld. lingerie and womens shoes in New York, £250 at a department store in Canterbury, £260 to a vet in Whitstable, £270 at an antiques store near Canterbury, £350 at a luxury furniture-maker in London, £365 at Marks & Spencer in Canterbury, £48 at a Tandoori restaurant in Canterbury on Christmas Eve, 855 complimentary tickets and 11 non-paying sponsors for Frampton-Martinez (the show made a "loss")

I do get it, however they did manage his career beautifully-

for which their percentage should have been sufficient reward, without the laundry list of self-indulgent nest-lining that clearly went on.

fiddles like that aren't a well-earned reward for a good job, they're fiddles.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 08:43

bripez wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 08:34

BigDoofus wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 07:18
Or this?

"41 hotel rooms in Manchester, Frampton's purse withheld. lingerie and womens shoes in New York, £250 at a department store in Canterbury, £260 to a vet in Whitstable, £270 at an antiques store near Canterbury, £350 at a luxury furniture-maker in London, £365 at Marks & Spencer in Canterbury, £48 at a Tandoori restaurant in Canterbury on Christmas Eve, 855 complimentary tickets and 11 non-paying sponsors for Frampton-Martinez (the show made a "loss")

I do get it, however they did manage his career beautifully-

for which their percentage should have been sufficient reward, without the laundry list of self-indulgent nest-lining that clearly went on.

fiddles like that aren't a well-earned reward for a good job, they're fiddles.

How much you reckon Frampton was getting paid before he left the Mcguigans?

bripez wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 08:34

BigDoofus wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 07:18

a force wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 06:12 None of that happens without the McGuigan’s in my opinion.

Or this?

"41 hotel rooms in Manchester, Frampton's purse withheld. lingerie and womens shoes in New York, £250 at a department store in Canterbury, £260 to a vet in Whitstable, £270 at an antiques store near Canterbury, £350 at a luxury furniture-maker in London, £365 at Marks & Spencer in Canterbury, £48 at a Tandoori restaurant in Canterbury on Christmas Eve, 855 complimentary tickets and 11 non-paying sponsors for Frampton-Martinez (the show made a "loss")

I do get it, however they did manage his career beautifully- a pathway to a world title and £million purses and I wouldn't begrudge Barry a chicken madras or Sandra some fancy nick nacks!

If they made him a lot of money I'm sure they took the percentage they were entitled to. They should buy there own bloody curries and knickers!

bripez wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 08:48

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 08:43

bripez wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 08:34

I do get it, however they did manage his career beautifully-

for which their percentage should have been sufficient reward, without the laundry list of self-indulgent nest-lining that clearly went on.

fiddles like that aren't a well-earned reward for a good job, they're fiddles.

How much you reckon Frampton was getting paid before he left the Mcguigans?

That article claimed he got 7% of it.

bripez wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 08:48

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 08:43

bripez wrote: ↑02 Oct 2023, 08:34

I do get it, however they did manage his career beautifully-

for which their percentage should have been sufficient reward, without the laundry list of self-indulgent nest-lining that clearly went on.

fiddles like that aren't a well-earned reward for a good job, they're fiddles.

How much you reckon Frampton was getting paid before he left the Mcguigans?

entirely irrelevant.

as Frampton's promoter and manager he was entitled to whatever % of Frampton's purses he negotiated.

he was not entitled- under any circumstances- to treat Frampton as the McGuigan family tit, which is basically to an extent what he did (as well as his %)

but thanks for confirming your non-sequitur equivocations don't just come out over politics