BoxRec

Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather Jr. and boxing's age-old issue

By Lance Pugmire

September 12, 2011

Manny Pacquiao smiled at the question, as many boxers before him have, flexed his right biceps and grinned in delight.

"I still feel young and strong," Pacquiao proclaimed last week.

Birthday No. 33 comes for Pacquiao on Dec. 17.

Floyd Mayweather Jr., the man the boxing world wants Pacquiao to fight if Mayweather withstands the challenge of 24-year-old Victor Ortiz on Saturday in Las Vegas, will turn 35 on Feb. 24.

"One lesson we've learned in this sport is that day arrives for fighters when they wake up and find out something they believed was written in stone as unchanging has changed," HBO boxing analyst Larry Merchant said.

Time stops for no man, and the calendar's toll can be severe for a boxer.

"My father — my greatest educator — told me since I was a little boy that at 28 you're still a young man, but you're an old fighter," said Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini, the former world lightweight champion. "Years later, I heard a quote by Napoleon: 'After 30 years, a man's spirit is not made for war.' "

Mancini, now 50, fought twice after turning 28 and lost both times.

"Your body starts to shut down, you start settling down," Mancini said. "We change mentally, emotionally, physically. The piss-and-vinegar attitude goes away. The reflexes aren't the same. In training camp, you do seven reps instead of 10, and think, 'Don't worry about it.' But you're not pushing yourself the same, and you pay for it."

Oscar De La Hoya experienced that deterioration three years ago against Pacquiao. De La Hoya couldn't move fast enough to keep up with Pacquiao's attacks and he couldn't hit the bolting Filipino. By the ninth round, De La Hoya, then 35, quit on his stool and ended his proud career.

Now retired, De La Hoya admits he'd begun slipping years earlier and was "past his prime" when he lost to Mayweather by split decision in 2007.

"It's a whole new ballgame, and Floyd's going to find that out now that he's 34," De La Hoya said. "Things start happening at 34. Your muscle mass is not the same. You make weight easier, but that's not a good thing because you have less muscle.

"I thought of that when I saw Floyd's number at his 30-day weigh-in: 149 [for the Ortiz bout, while normally a fighter would be up around 155 at that time]. It's not a good sign for Floyd. Everything is against him."

Longtime boxing publicist Bill Caplan was an eyewitness to the toll of age on Sugar Ray Robinson. He watched Robinson, at 39, struggle in two bouts against Gene Fullmer, and then in training camp before Robinson's sad loss to part-time bartender Ferd Hernandez in 1965 in Las Vegas.

"They don't lose their power, they lose their timing," said Caplan, who has since worked with De La Hoya, George Foreman and now Ortiz. "If they see an opening, they can't pull the trigger.

"You also can't spar as many rounds. The body just can't take it. So when you get in the ring in that condition, you look terrible."

There are exceptions.

Former world heavyweight champion Foreman returned from a 10-year hiatus at age 38, then recaptured the belt at 45. He preached that "age doesn't matter . . . you lose energy, but gain wisdom."

Light-heavyweight champion Bernard Hopkins, 46, will defend his belt Oct. 15 at Staples Center. Hopkins said his secret was a vow in his 20s to remain true to a strict diet and exercise regimen.

Merchant concludes: "Yes, there are freaks. Hopkins. But that's not normal. Younger, quicker guys trying to prove something to the world usually beat the older guy."

Mancini said his final fight, at 31, revealed the inner conflict of a maturing man and a youthful ego. He signed to fight former world lightweight champion Greg Haugen.

"It's not all about money. It's wanting to know — and believing — that you can still get up for a world-class event," Mancini recalled.

In January 1992, Mancini started training camp without his family and infant son. Each afternoon he'd listen to Eric Clapton's "Tears in Heaven."

"I'd think of being away from my wife and son and bawl like a baby," Mancini said. "I was destroyed before I ever got in the ring. I told my assistant trainer 10 minutes before the fight in the dressing room, 'I got no business being here.' "

Mancini suffered a final defeat by technical knockout in the seventh round.

Veteran matchmaker Bruce Trampler has watched thousands of fights and knows the telltale signs of an aging boxer.

"If a guy can't defend a jab, that suggests his decline has begun," Trampler said. "The younger, fresher fighter doesn't wait for the message of an opening to punch to reach his brain. He just does it. You can actually see the older fighter waiting on the message before he punches."

"And the worse a fighter declines, the more he's at risk. We can start and finish that story with Muhammad Ali."

Trampler reminds that few ever foresaw that the brilliant Cassius Clay, who beautifully slipped punches by turning his head at the last instant, would transform into the sad Ali at the end of his career.

Trampler recalls his mentor, former Madison Square Garden matchmaker Teddy Brenner, saying in 1978 that he was going to bet some money on young Olympian Leon Spinks to upset Ali after watching the champ get hit hard in his prior fight against Earnie Shavers.

"You have no idea how bad Spinks is," Trampler told Brenner.

"You have no idea how bad Ali is," Brenner corrected before Spinks shocked the world.

Years later, Trampler was in his Las Vegas office when Sugar Ray Leonard was asking about a comeback fight at age 40. Trampler offered a bout against a journeyman. Leonard declined, instead wanting to fight a bigger name, Hector "Macho" Camacho.

"He was shot," Trampler recalled. "I'm not saying that loss is Ray's legacy, but it's on his record that he got stopped by Hector Camacho, who couldn't stop anybody."

For the record, Trampler says he sees no slippage in Pacquiao, his company's fighter, and Merchant said the only hiccup from Mayweather was getting hit hard in the second round by Shane Mosley in an otherwise dominant effort last year.

If Mayweather and Pacquiao win their upcoming fights — Pacquiao has a Nov. 12 date against older veteran Juan Manuel Marquez — it by no means ruins the anticipation of a super-fight.

One of the best bouts of all time was "The Thrilla in Manila" in 1975 when Ali was 33 and Joe Frazier was 31.

"Ali didn't have the legs to elude Frazier, so he got hit and had to fight," Merchant said. "What a fight it was."

Man versus age usually is.

[email protected]

Sorry I was away from posting for a couple of days.
Here are some of my firehouse pictures from 9-11 Rememberance ceremony on Sunday morning.There is a cement park across the street on W 48 St that the property was given to us from a highrise apt bldg next door. Many benefactors built the park as you see and a very Gracious midtown Company donated the Monument itself with water coming down over it in 2002. Every year we meet there at 8 am.
My wife Rose took pictures,I am in back row of firefighters and cannot be seen.
FF widows & the 28 children left fatherless that day place flowers around monument,bagpipes play,Broadway actresses sing "America,Amazing Grace,Star Spangled Banner". Prayers are read. Tributes paid to servicemen today.Over 300+ persons in attendance this day.
Then Mass at St Pats Cathedral at 11 am.

Here is a "newly dedicated" lighted granite Memorial Wall inside the firehouse showing faces of those members killed at WTC.





Outside in Park

The front apparatus doors and huge commemorative sign facing 8Th ave.



Thank You All for your kinds words over the last few days.
God Bless America and "Never Forget 9-11"

Art "Golden Boy" Aragon/Charlie Sawyer Jan. 31, 1959..
Headlines ARAGON IN TROUBLE AGAIN; 4-ROUND 'KAYO' A FIASCO, Los Angeles-A four -round fiasco with his ex-sparring partner has plunged Art Aragon into hot water with the boxing commission and has cost him a shot at Don Jordan's welterweight title. The State Athletic Commission has ordered both fighter's purses held up pending a hearing Saturday of Aragon's knockout of Charlie Sawyer. "As soon as they started there movements in the first round, I knew something was wrong." said Tommy Hart, who refereed the scheduled 10-rounder Saturday night at Legion Stadium. Hart refused to count three times in the first round when Sawyer hit the deck. "It was just horseplay," said Hart. "Sawyer got hit on the shoulder and went into his elevator act." RUMORS BEFORE FIGHT. However, Hart conceded that Sawyer was really tagged when he went down and was counted out in the fourth. (Commission Secretary Clayton Frye told United Press International today that Sawyer "was trying to go down, it was obvious. (Aragon, a veteran of 16 years in the pro fight game, was convicted in 1957 of offering another fighter, Dick Goldstein, $500 to throw a fight, but a California District Court of Appeals subsequently reversed this conviction. ("There were rumors about the fight," Frye said, "and both boxers were warned at the weigh-in...We simply wanted to put them on notice that we wanted the best effort." Aragon, who could have won a shot at the welter title with a good showing, said the fight was on the up-and-up as far as he was concerned. "I'm not responsible for what Sawyer does," "I'm not the matchmaker." Sawyer, a 10-year ring veteran, said "Those knockdowns were good. Did the referee want me to get killed?" Sawyer worked as a sparmate for Aragon's ill-fated tilt with Carmen Basilio last September. Aragon said "Sawyer is washed up. That's what caused the trouble. I knocked him down with big gloves three times when i was training for Basilio."


Frank, Do you remember this fight, like you said before, "when wasn't Art in trouble," never a dull moment with Golden Boy..

Cholo wrote:Art "Golden Boy" Aragon/Charlie Sawyer Jan. 31, 1959..

Headlines ARAGON IN TROUBLE AGAIN; 4-ROUND 'KAYO' A FIASCO, Los Angeles-A four -round fiasco with his ex-sparring partner has plunged Art Aragon into hot water with the boxing commission and has cost him a shot at Don Jordan's welterweight title. The State Athletic Commission has ordered both fighter's purses held up pending a hearing Saturday of Aragon's knockout of Charlie Sawyer. "As soon as they started there movements in the first round, I knew something was wrong." said Tommy Hart, who refereed the scheduled 10-rounder Saturday night at Legion Stadium. Hart refused to count three times in the first round when Sawyer hit the deck. "It was just horseplay," said Hart. "Sawyer got hit on the shoulder and went into his elevator act." RUMORS BEFORE FIGHT. However, Hart conceded that Sawyer was really tagged when he went down and was counted out in the fourth. (Commission Secretary Clayton Frye told United Press International today that Sawyer "was trying to go down, it was obvious. (Aragon, a veteran of 16 years in the pro fight game, was convicted in 1957 of offering another fighter, Dick Goldstein, $500 to throw a fight, but a California District Court of Appeals subsequently reversed this conviction. ("There were rumors about the fight," Frye said, "and both boxers were warned at the weigh-in...We simply wanted to put them on notice that we wanted the best effort." Aragon, who could have won a shot at the welter title with a good showing, said the fight was on the up-and-up as far as he was concerned. "I'm not responsible for what Sawyer does," "I'm not the matchmaker." Sawyer, a 10-year ring veteran, said "Those knockdowns were good. Did the referee want me to get killed?" Sawyer worked as a sparmate for Aragon's ill-fated tilt with Carmen Basilio last September. Aragon said "Sawyer is washed up. That's what caused the trouble. I knocked him down with big gloves three times when i was training for Basilio."


Frank, Do you remember this fight, like you said before, "when wasn't Art in trouble," never a dull moment with Golden Boy..

I remember it Paul, though I didn't see it. Sawyer was Joe Kelly's fighter. Kelly was the door man at the Teamsters gym in the '50's, Kelly also was one of the last owner's of the Knockout Magazine...

Thanks Charlie, for posting those great 9-11 photos...

Victor Ortiz keeps camp loose before fighting Floyd Mayweather Jr.

In contrast to his opponent, WBC champion Ortiz likes to interrupt the grind of training with 'fun days' to give his team a break from tension. It fits the persona of a boxer who says, 'I love life.'
Victor Ortiz


By Lance Pugmire

September 13, 2011, 4:46 p.m.
As much as Victor Ortiz has in common with Floyd Mayweather Jr. — neither is talking to his father, both left veteran promoter Bob Arum for greater riches, and they're fighting each other Saturday — there's one dominant difference.

Mayweather's gym maintains a consistently tense mood, saying that the fighter is there training hard to avoid the damage that occurs in the blood sport. Ortiz routinely halts everything for a "fun day."

Recently, Ortiz took everyone on a chartered deep-sea fishing boat off the Channel Islands. He's also invited the group to surf, enter a Camp Pendleton triathlon race with him, paddleboard, get massages in Ojai and sky dive.

"I'm not going to live forever. So you better have fun while you're here," Ortiz said from his home on Ventura Harbor.

That's the unmistakable vibe exuding from Ortiz, the 24-year-old World Boxing Council welterweight champion. He will make his first title defense in Las Vegas in a bout dominated by the story line of his celebrated opponent, the unbeaten Mayweather, who returns to the ring after 16 months.

"I think everyone is tired of him," Ortiz said of his foe. "I'm here to win this."

Ortiz is an aggressive puncher, with a 29-2-2 record and 22 knockouts, but oddsmakers say he's a 7-to-1 underdog.

Those close to Ortiz say that if victory is at hand, it will be because of the drive he's shown by overcoming numerous obstacles to win a world title.

"He takes his energy as a fighter into everything he does, and our kids need to hear that story," said Hector Cortez, chief diversity officer of Big Brothers/Big Sisters, a youth mentoring organization based in Philadelphia. Ortiz, a spokesman for the organization, recently hosted some youths from a gang-intervention program at his Ventura gym.

"To respond to the environment he came from is a testament to his resolve," Cortez said. "Everything around you comes from something deep within you, and tapping into that can be transformative."

Ortiz grew up in Garden City, Kan., and he and his siblings endured a difficult childhood as their parents abandoned them.

Mayweather, similarly scarred by unstable parenting, remains saddled with a reputation for being moody and difficult. He's facing felony charges stemming from allegations that he struck the mother of his three children, and he recently split with his father in an expletive-filled exchange on HBO's "24/7" reality series.

Ortiz has taken another tack. He simply doesn't speak to the father who left him.

Last winter, Ortiz said, he faced his own domestic crisis — he came home early one day and found his girlfriend of four years with another man, a U.S. serviceman. He recalled telling the soldier, "I should hit you, but I won't, because all the stories will say, 'Boxer beats up military hero.'" Ortiz ended the relationship.

In April, Ortiz's boxing career reached a pinnacle. He won the WBC belt from then-unbeaten Andre Berto in a stirring unanimous decision, a bout in which both men were knocked down twice, with Mayweather watching ringside.

"I could have easily headed in other directions throughout my life," Ortiz said. "Luckily, I was surrounded by a lot of positive people. I knew right from wrong. And it meant something to me to not be that person who in people's eyes was all messed up."

Ortiz credits his youth boxing mentor, the late Ignacio "Bucky" Avila. The trainer kept repeating the phrase "You can do it, Junior" so often that Ortiz said he heard the words echo during the Berto fight.

Ortiz values support from those close to him. It was a key reason why he dumped his former trainer Robert Garcia. The trainer was "mean" and not supportive, Ortiz said.

Rosas recalled that during the weigh-in for a 2006 fight in San Antonio against a then-unbeaten opponent named Nestor Rosas, he ended a verbal exchange by betting Rosas $100 that he'd win the fight. Instead of drawing admiration from Garcia for being confident, the trainer scolded Ortiz and warned him he faced a difficult fight.

"[Garcia was] always bringing me down," Ortiz said.

Ortiz knocked out Rosas in the fifth round.

Fight fans, though, haven't always been on Ortiz's side. In June 2009 Ortiz lost to Marcos Maidana on a sixth-round technical knockout at Staples Center when it appeared Ortiz could have continued. Fans shouted at Ortiz: "You're not a true Mexican!"

Ortiz believes that if he fought Maidana 10 times he'd win nine of the bouts. "Sorry for the mistake of being human" and losing one, Ortiz said.

Rolando Arellano, Ortiz's manager, added, "There's a reason the front windshield of a car is bigger than the rear mirror: You should look forward most of the time, and only occasionally check behind you."

On Ortiz's dinner table is the volume "The Book of Positive Quotations." His manager frequently reads passages from it to Ortiz. They also watch Anthony Robbins' motivational videos together.

"It's not what people think of you, it's what you believe about yourself," Arellano said, fixing his eyes on his fighter. "There are excuses to fail and excuses to succeed. . . . It's the story between the ears that determines your life."

Ortiz nods, relishing his own path.

"You've got to get over things," Ortiz said. "Otherwise, you'd sit there and want to kill yourself. I love life."

[email protected]

kikibalt wrote:

Cholo wrote:Art "Golden Boy" Aragon/Charlie Sawyer Jan. 31, 1959..

Headlines ARAGON IN TROUBLE AGAIN; 4-ROUND 'KAYO' A FIASCO, Los Angeles-A four -round fiasco with his ex-sparring partner has plunged Art Aragon into hot water with the boxing commission and has cost him a shot at Don Jordan's welterweight title. The State Athletic Commission has ordered both fighter's purses held up pending a hearing Saturday of Aragon's knockout of Charlie Sawyer. "As soon as they started there movements in the first round, I knew something was wrong." said Tommy Hart, who refereed the scheduled 10-rounder Saturday night at Legion Stadium. Hart refused to count three times in the first round when Sawyer hit the deck. "It was just horseplay," said Hart. "Sawyer got hit on the shoulder and went into his elevator act." RUMORS BEFORE FIGHT. However, Hart conceded that Sawyer was really tagged when he went down and was counted out in the fourth. (Commission Secretary Clayton Frye told United Press International today that Sawyer "was trying to go down, it was obvious. (Aragon, a veteran of 16 years in the pro fight game, was convicted in 1957 of offering another fighter, Dick Goldstein, $500 to throw a fight, but a California District Court of Appeals subsequently reversed this conviction. ("There were rumors about the fight," Frye said, "and both boxers were warned at the weigh-in...We simply wanted to put them on notice that we wanted the best effort." Aragon, who could have won a shot at the welter title with a good showing, said the fight was on the up-and-up as far as he was concerned. "I'm not responsible for what Sawyer does," "I'm not the matchmaker." Sawyer, a 10-year ring veteran, said "Those knockdowns were good. Did the referee want me to get killed?" Sawyer worked as a sparmate for Aragon's ill-fated tilt with Carmen Basilio last September. Aragon said "Sawyer is washed up. That's what caused the trouble. I knocked him down with big gloves three times when i was training for Basilio."


Frank, Do you remember this fight, like you said before, "when wasn't Art in trouble," never a dull moment with Golden Boy..

I remember it Paul, though I didn't see it. Sawyer was Joe Kelly's fighter. Kelly was the door man at the Teamsters gym in the '50's, Kelly also was one of the last owner's of the Knockout Magazine...

Frank, Thanks again for the Info buddy..

kikibalt wrote:Thanks Charlie, for posting those great 9-11 photos...

Thanks Frank

Will the "Book of Positive Quotations" be enough to put Ortiz up and over Mayweather come Saturday night ?
He might be right in the head, but does his fist and agility score enough for him of the cagey and quick punching Mayweather.
I'm for Ortiz in this one,but I'm not putting any money down on this one.
It would be nice to shut up Mayweather a little, but you know, win or lose this guy's all mouth.

Dear freinds
My name is Nader, I live in Tehran, IRAN. Eltefat Talebi was my Father's relative. I have heard some stories about him, as some of you may know, He was an Iranian boxer who won bronze medal in 1966 Asian Games, also a famous boxer in America (about 1968 to 1972). He came back to Iran and unfortunately he was killed in a tragic murder (about 1975) Police said that he has been stabbed to death, they never fund his murderers.
I'm very interested to find his photos, videos, or any information that he left in America. I read in this forum that he won the Golden Gloves in San Francisco in 1970, I hope that you help me to find something about Eltefat. I can't find even a photo of him in the net, maybe his friends help me. At the end thanks for your attention.
My E-mail address: [email protected]
all I found about Eltefat Talebi:
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_at_th ... sian_Games

Victor Ortiz vows to 'teach' Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Boxers trade pointed comments in advance of bout at Las Vegas' MGM Grand on Saturday, and Ortiz's trainer has something to say too.

By Lance Pugmire

September 14, 2011
Reporting from Las Vegas — The most modest man at the podium made the boldest statement Wednesday.

Danny Garcia, a soda truck driver who also trains world welterweight champion Victor Ortiz, turned to multimillionaire Floyd Mayweather Jr. and made a simple, passionate plea that will resonate until the boxers square off at the MGM Grand on Saturday night.

"Floyd, at least for this fight, fight a good clean fight for the people," Garcia said as he stared down at Mayweather, who was seated at a news conference dais. "We all know how you fight.

"Don't put up your elbow, don't turn your back. That tells me you're scared of fighting."

Strong words from a working-class man whose morning delivery route includes stops in Ventura, Oxnard and Camarillo.

It wasn't Mayweather's turn to speak, but as he showed HBO cameras during training camp, when he threw his father out of his gym in an expletive-filled tirade, he doesn't have much patience in debate.

"Yeah, I am scared of fighting," answered Mayweather, mocking Garcia's accusation. "That's why I've been dominating here for 16 years. I'm the one doing the [pay-per-view] numbers. I'm not worried about you. You're the trainer. Let your fighter fight."

Ortiz, 24, who claimed the World Boxing Council title with a stirring exchange-of-knockdowns battle with Andre Berto in April, took up his trainer's cause.

"You have 41 [victories], but none of those 41 were against me," said the Ventura boxer, who has a record of 29-2-2 with 22 knockouts. "I sense some nervousness. I am the current WBC champion. I'm going to teach you what it's like to have that one [loss]."

Mayweather, 34, whose 41-0 record includes 25 knockouts, cautioned his younger foe — a 51/2-1 underdog at the MGM Resorts' Race and Sports Book — telling Ortiz to stay "classy."

Ortiz responded with a dig at Mayweather's involvement in a felony domestic violence case in which the mother of his three children was allegedly a victim.

"Oh, we're talking about class here? I'm going to put you on your [rear]," Ortiz said.

When it was Mayweather's turn, he expressed surprise that the Ortiz camp had turned scornful.

"The trainer says I'm a dirty fighter. Well, it's a dirty sport," Mayweather said. "It's the hurt business. How can it be clean?"

He added, "Don't worry about me backpedaling. I'll come straight ahead. The fight's not going the distance. When I hit you and hurt you, don't grab me. I'm going to finish you off."

Mayweather also claimed Ortiz's sad story of being abandoned in his youth by his father is "not true" — citing Internet talk as his source of information. Mayweather said he's grown tired of Ortiz's repeating, "Dude, I grew up with nothing."

There was another message: Welcome to big-time boxing, kid.

"It didn't bother me. I'm a tree stump, man," Ortiz said afterward. "You can say whatever you want. I know when you do something well, everyone's your friend, and when you hit the floor, everyone forgets you.

"It's going to be a sad moment for Floyd Saturday night."

[email protected]

Bonanza wrote:Dear freinds
My name is Nader, I live in Tehran, IRAN. Eltefat Talebi was my Father's relative. I have heard some stories about him, as some of you may know, He was an Iranian boxer who won bronze medal in 1966 Asian Games, also a famous boxer in America (about 1968 to 1972). He came back to Iran and unfortunately he was killed in a tragic murder (about 1975), Police said that he has been stabbed to death, they never fund his murderers.
I'm very interested to find his photos, videos, or any information that he left in America. I read in this forum that he won the Golden Gloves in San Francisco in 1970, I hope that you help me to find something about Eltefat. I can't find even a photo of him in the net, maybe his friends help me. At the end thanks for your attention.
My E-mail address: [email protected]
all I found about Eltefat Talebi:
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_at_th ... sian_Games

Nader. I don't know much about Talebi. Though, I'd see his fight with Mando Muniz live back in 1972. He really wasn't all that famous in the US, that might be one reason why you're having a hard time finding anything on him....Sorry to hear about his passing...

kikibalt wrote:

Bonanza wrote:Dear freinds
My name is Nader, I live in Tehran, IRAN. Eltefat Talebi was my Father's relative. I have heard some stories about him, as some of you may know, He was an Iranian boxer who won bronze medal in 1966 Asian Games, also a famous boxer in America (about 1968 to 1972). He came back to Iran and unfortunately he was killed in a tragic murder (about 1975), Police said that he has been stabbed to death, they never fund his murderers.
I'm very interested to find his photos, videos, or any information that he left in America. I read in this forum that he won the Golden Gloves in San Francisco in 1970, I hope that you help me to find something about Eltefat. I can't find even a photo of him in the net, maybe his friends help me. At the end thanks for your attention.
My E-mail address: [email protected]
all I found about Eltefat Talebi:
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_at_th ... sian_Games

Nader. I don't know much about Talebi. Though, I'd see his fight with Mando Muniz live back in 1972. He really wasn't all that famous in the US, that might be one reason why you're having a hard time finding anything on him....Sorry to hear about his passing...

Nader,
I trained at the Newman's gym in San Francisco when EL T (what we called him) was there, I am quite sure I have a Golden Gloves Program with his picture either on the cover or inside, I can't remember the details. I may also be able to find some other things on him, it will have to wait until next week because I am out of town but I will gladly look through my stuff to see what I can find. I will tell you this, he was a well liked fighter around the gym with a smile for everyone and a tough warrior in the ring. There was another Iranian who I was under the impression was El T's cousin named Nick Aghai do you know who he is?
I will email you soon.
Bruce
NorCal

Bobbin & Weavin wrote:

kikibalt wrote:

Bonanza wrote:Dear freinds
My name is Nader, I live in Tehran, IRAN. Eltefat Talebi was my Father's relative. I have heard some stories about him, as some of you may know, He was an Iranian boxer who won bronze medal in 1966 Asian Games, also a famous boxer in America (about 1968 to 1972). He came back to Iran and unfortunately he was killed in a tragic murder (about 1975), Police said that he has been stabbed to death, they never fund his murderers.
I'm very interested to find his photos, videos, or any information that he left in America. I read in this forum that he won the Golden Gloves in San Francisco in 1970, I hope that you help me to find something about Eltefat. I can't find even a photo of him in the net, maybe his friends help me. At the end thanks for your attention.
My E-mail address: [email protected]
all I found about Eltefat Talebi:
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_at_th ... sian_Games

Nader. I don't know much about Talebi. Though, I'd see his fight with Mando Muniz live back in 1972. He really wasn't all that famous in the US, that might be one reason why you're having a hard time finding anything on him....Sorry to hear about his passing...

Nader,
I trained at the Newman's gym in San Francisco when EL T (what we called him) was there, I am quite sure I have a Golden Gloves Program with his picture either on the cover or inside, I can't remember the details. I may also be able to find some other things on him, it will have to wait until next week because I am out of town but I will gladly look through my stuff to see what I can find. I will tell you this, he was a well liked fighter around the gym with a smile for everyone and a tough warrior in the ring. There was another Iranian who I was under the impression was El T's cousin named Nick Aghai do you know who he is?
I will email you soon.
Bruce
NorCal

Floyd Mayweather Jr. pours salt in Victor Ortiz's wounds
September 15, 2011 |

Floyd Mayweather Jr. has launched mental warfare against his 10-years-younger Saturday night opponent Victor Ortiz, inviting Ortiz's ex-trainer Robert Garcia and Ventura County rival world champion Brandon Rios to watch near ringside.

"I saw Garcia at a fight at state line [Primm, Nev.] not too long ago. He asked to come to my next fight, and I said that'd be great," Mayweather said. "I'm a man of my word."

Especially when it's this irritating to the opposition's camp.

Not only did Ortiz drop Garcia as his trainer after a 2007 bout, claiming the trainer was "mean," he hired Garcia's brother, Danny, as his new trainer.

That created such a severe falling out in the Garcia family that Robert and Danny are not on speaking terms. It doesn't help that their backyards in Oxnard butt up against each other.

Mayweather claimed Wednesday that Ortiz's explanation that he was abandoned by his father at the age of 12 was "not true," counting Robert Garcia and Internet reports as his "research."
Ortiz insists his father was abusive and walked away after Ortiz's mother quit parenting.

Contacted by telephone, Robert Garcia told The Times he's heard from a former neighbor of the Ortiz family that Ortiz's "dad never left him, was always there for him."

Garcia said he couldn't remember Ortiz's father ever checking in by telephone or any other means after Garcia and his father effectively took over guardianship of Ortiz at age 16, with the then-amateur boxer relocating from Garden City, Kan., to Oxnard.

On Wednesday, Ortiz gave Mayweather's claims little attention, though Danny Garcia announced he "loves his brother" and expressed hope for a reunion someday soon. Robert Garcia said he agreed with that sentiment but first wanted Danny "to admit" he was wrong by not alerting the Garcia family to his intentions to replace Robert as Ortiz's trainer.

"He knows why I don't want to talk to him," Robert Garcia said. "I had brought Danny in to help me train fighters and get a piece of every guy. Then we find out by surprise that Victor wants to go somewhere else, and that Danny is training him. If he wanted to do that in the first place, all he had to do was tell us. Fine, go make some money.

"Finding out without him telling us, it's ugly now. I've learned when there's money involved, it can change people. I just want Danny to tell me why he did it.

Mayweather was reportedly contemplating asking Robert Garcia and his star fighter Rios to accompany him into the ring with Ortiz, but Robert Garcia said he "wouldn't be comfortable" doing so. He said he did want to attend the fight, however, and was pleased to receive an invitation from Mayweather advisor Leonard Ellerbe on Wednesday.

"I think Mayweather wins, and I'm not the only one," Robert Garcia said. "Victor does hit hard, and he has power, but I believe Floyd will pick him apart.

'Victor is weak-minded. If Floyd starts landing [punches] on him, Victor will lose it. I know he will. It happened when I had him in the amateurs. It happened [two years ago] against [Marcos] Maidana."

kikibalt wrote:

Bobbin & Weavin wrote:

kikibalt wrote: Nader. I don't know much about Talebi. Though, I'd see his fight with Mando Muniz live back in 1972. He really wasn't all that famous in the US, that might be one reason why you're having a hard time finding anything on him....Sorry to hear about his passing...

Nader,
I trained at the Newman's gym in San Francisco when EL T (what we called him) was there, I am quite sure I have a Golden Gloves Program with his picture either on the cover or inside, I can't remember the details. I may also be able to find some other things on him, it will have to wait until next week because I am out of town but I will gladly look through my stuff to see what I can find. I will tell you this, he was a well liked fighter around the gym with a smile for everyone and a tough warrior in the ring. There was another Iranian who I was under the impression was El T's cousin named Nick Aghai do you know who he is?
I will email you soon.
Bruce
NorCal

>I have both the 1970and 1971 sf golden gloves program before me. I see a Nasser Aghi as GG champ at 139lb. From san jose...

kikibalt wrote:"I think Mayweather wins, and I'm not the only one," Robert Garcia said. "Victor does hit hard, and he has power, but I believe Floyd will pick him apart.

'Victor is weak-minded. If Floyd starts landing [punches] on him, Victor will lose it. I know he will. It happened when I had him in the amateurs. It happened [two years ago] against [Marcos] Maidana."

Frustration is a huge part of Championship Boxing, It's what caused Duran to claim "No Mas", it took the ear off of Holyfield by an animal named Tyson,amongst many other notable fights.
Robert Garcia is stating the obvious, what people tune in for- is the upset.
Mayweather is probably too much for Victor, but its Victor's shot of adding a big belt and hopefully a "fight of the Year" candidate.Hopefully he keeps his cool and his head in the fight.

kikibalt wrote:Victor Ortiz vows to 'teach' Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Boxers trade pointed comments in advance of bout at Las Vegas' MGM Grand on Saturday, and Ortiz's trainer has something to say too.

By Lance Pugmire

September 14, 2011
Reporting from Las Vegas — The most modest man at the podium made the boldest statement Wednesday.

Danny Garcia, a soda truck driver who also trains world welterweight champion Victor Ortiz, turned to multimillionaire Floyd Mayweather Jr. and made a simple, passionate plea that will resonate until the boxers square off at the MGM Grand on Saturday night.

"Floyd, at least for this fight, fight a good clean fight for the people," Garcia said as he stared down at Mayweather, who was seated at a news conference dais. "We all know how you fight.

"Don't put up your elbow, don't turn your back. That tells me you're scared of fighting."

Strong words from a working-class man whose morning delivery route includes stops in Ventura, Oxnard and Camarillo.

It wasn't Mayweather's turn to speak, but as he showed HBO cameras during training camp, when he threw his father out of his gym in an expletive-filled tirade, he doesn't have much patience in debate.

"Yeah, I am scared of fighting," answered Mayweather, mocking Garcia's accusation. "That's why I've been dominating here for 16 years. I'm the one doing the [pay-per-view] numbers. I'm not worried about you. You're the trainer. Let your fighter fight."

Ortiz, 24, who claimed the World Boxing Council title with a stirring exchange-of-knockdowns battle with Andre Berto in April, took up his trainer's cause.

"You have 41 [victories], but none of those 41 were against me," said the Ventura boxer, who has a record of 29-2-2 with 22 knockouts. "I sense some nervousness. I am the current WBC champion. I'm going to teach you what it's like to have that one [loss]."

Mayweather, 34, whose 41-0 record includes 25 knockouts, cautioned his younger foe — a 51/2-1 underdog at the MGM Resorts' Race and Sports Book — telling Ortiz to stay "classy."

Ortiz responded with a dig at Mayweather's involvement in a felony domestic violence case in which the mother of his three children was allegedly a victim.

"Oh, we're talking about class here? I'm going to put you on your [rear]," Ortiz said.

When it was Mayweather's turn, he expressed surprise that the Ortiz camp had turned scornful.

"The trainer says I'm a dirty fighter. Well, it's a dirty sport," Mayweather said. "It's the hurt business. How can it be clean?"

He added, "Don't worry about me backpedaling. I'll come straight ahead. The fight's not going the distance. When I hit you and hurt you, don't grab me. I'm going to finish you off."

Mayweather also claimed Ortiz's sad story of being abandoned in his youth by his father is "not true" — citing Internet talk as his source of information. Mayweather said he's grown tired of Ortiz's repeating, "Dude, I grew up with nothing."

There was another message: Welcome to big-time boxing, kid.

"It didn't bother me. I'm a tree stump, man," Ortiz said afterward. "You can say whatever you want. I know when you do something well, everyone's your friend, and when you hit the floor, everyone forgets you.

"It's going to be a sad moment for Floyd Saturday night."

[email protected]

I would like to see Ortiz win this one but I'm not entirely sure he can. He looked good against Andre Berto in his last fight, and while Berto is a decent enough fighter and was/is considered one of the up and coming stars of this generation, he is not Floyd Mayweather Jr, not by a long shot. Logic and Common sense says that if he couldn't handle Marcos Maidana he won't be able to handle Mayweather. Still, there has to be a part of Ortiz that has vowed to himself, regardless of circumstances or opponent, that he will never again quit. That's just speculation on my part but it's one that makes sense. Hoever he did it, Ortiz has positioned himself for a fight with one of the two best pound for pound fighters in the world. He has a huge mountain to climb.

Mayweather on the other hand, regardless of what you or I might think of him, has yet to be beaten and has yet to show signs of aging. I don't think Ortiz will have anything new to show him. Mayweather has seen it all before. However, he has not been without some close calls. His first win against Jose Luis Castillo was considered somewhat of a robbery but he did removed all doubt in the second fight. He earned a split decision in his 2007 fight against a tired and aging Ocar De La Hoya. During that fight Oscar had some great moments but just could not sustain it. When Oscar used his jab he had his way with Mayweather. That may just be the blueprint for beating him, that and a truckload of intestinal fortitude.

My hope for tomorrow night? That Victor Ortiz reaches deep inside of himself and finds it within himself, win, lose or draw, to produce the fight of his life. I'd like to see the kid redeem himself.

I pick Floyd Mayweather Jr. to win the fight. He has too much experience, skill and quickness for Victor Ortiz.

- Chuck Johnston

Boxing devolves with Mayweather family fight on HBO's '24/7'

The obscenity-laden battle between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Floyd Mayweather Sr. on promotional reality TV is well beyond the boundaries of good taste.
Floyd Mayweather Jr.


By Bill Dwyre

September 16, 2011

The rude and crude world of professional boxing reached a new low recently.

It is boxing. Nothing quite defines it. Certainly not good taste.

Right there in your living room, had you been watching the "24/7" infomercial that HBO camouflages as a documentary in promoting pay-per-view sales, occurred one of the more startling scenes of public family dysfunction you will ever witness.

Floyd Mayweather Jr. was throwing Floyd Mayweather Sr. out of his gym. The longer it went — and it was a good two or three minutes — the more you got the impression that he was also throwing him out of his life. It has happened before. It may happen again. But it was still startling.

Floyd Jr. will fight Victor Ortiz on Saturday night in Las Vegas in one of the year's handful of big-money fights. In the context of real things, the world will be unmoved. OK, an Ortiz victory might bring a little jiggle or two on the axis, but odds are about 6-1 against that happening.

Almost more fascinating than the fight is the extent to which Mayweather has gone to promote his image as a tough, untouchable, unapproachable, thumb-your-nose-at-the-law punk. His boxing record is 41-0, and he seems to use that to justify all other behaviors.

But his tirade against his father, a former boxer who has been in jail and missing in action often enough to justify less than cuddly feelings from his son, was beyond stunning.

Television cameras were in his face. This is what "24/7" promotes, around-the-clock access. And suddenly, father and son were trying to outdo each other in nasty, snarling verbal attacks that featured the same obscenity over and over again. To their credit, each found ways to use the term as both an adjective and a noun.

You found yourself asking why anybody would do this, why a private moment could be allowed to be so public. You know that boxing leads the sports world in pre-event baloney. You remember Mike Tyson accidentally breaking an official's leg during a fake fight at the head table during a news conference.

But are there now no boundaries, no hint of decorum? Is nothing private, personal? Is this where we are headed with Facebook and cellphone cameras and fan bloggers and a million TV outlets vying to get our attention in numbers sufficient to sell advertising?

Does all this great technology enable idiots, or are we idiots because we allow it to do so?

Go ahead and laugh. Yes, this is boxing, where Tyson bit portions of Evander Holyfield's ear off in the ring during a fight.

But you don't have to be extremely old, nor extremely prudish, to recall with some nostalgia the days when the words "damn" or "hell" uttered on TV were surprising. Yes, this is cable, and yes, it is deemed to be different. But still …

Richard Schaefer is the chief executive of Golden Boy Promotions, which is running this fight. His company paid the $1-million-plus production costs for "24/7." He says he was a little taken aback on first viewing of the Mayweather family tirade but adds that he wouldn't have turned the cameras off, nor edited out the scene.

"From a non-Mayweather point of view, it was hard to understand," Schaefer says. "But this is promoted as reality television, which means they will show the good, the bad and the ugly.

"It is designed to show the differences, the mind-sets of each fighter, all having implications for the fight. That's why we saw one guy taking a break and going fishing, and the other going out to buy a Rolls-Royce."

Guess which one was buying the Rolls-Royce?

Mayweather is an interesting person. There is more there than the tough-guy punk-isms, but it is hard to get at. He has often rescued down-on-their-luck friends. Case in point: former Olympian Nate Jones, once surviving by selling cheap suits on street corners in Chicago and now a member of Mayweather's training camp. Mayweather talks and acts like a tattooed rapper and then plays country music in his car.

Still, with his recent felony assault charges, he seems intent on following in the footsteps of the same man he berated and verbally abused in front of millions of TV viewers. Or should we call people who watch and embrace this sort of public dignity-stripping gawkers?

Mayweather is 34 years old. He has made millions, spent millions and may do more of each for years to come.

But one can only wonder, when his boxing career is over and the fickle sports world turns its adoration to the newer, fresher, younger model, what that will do to Floyd Mayweather Jr. One would hope that, at that stage, when there are no cameras turned on him, he will have grown up enough to understand what a good thing that can be.

[email protected]

Chuck1052 wrote:I pick Floyd Mayweather Jr. to win the fight. He has too much experience, skill and quickness for Victor Ortiz.

- Chuck Johnston

That's the reality of it all, in a nutshell!

James and a group of friends are buying the fight here at my house, so I get to watch and record it on HD for free...Thanks James and friends!!...

Now if we can just talk Connie into making some tacos!!...Please!!, no Pizza tonight!!

Contributing to Crap . . .

That's what I'll be doing tonight. Usually it's easy to avoid a match between two fighters I don't care for, I just don't watch. However, there are things on the line tonight and I don't want to speak out on an event that I didn't see in real time. So I'll buy the fight, and invite a couple pals over to watch.

I don't like Floyd Mayweather because he does not represent anything good in my mind.
I feel the same about Victor Ortiz. I'm not responsible for how they were raised. I have known to many boxers who started their lives in worse places than either Floyd of Victor but that had a lot of class. They did not burn $100 bills on camera while others are starving. They didn't use foul language to make their point. They did not quit when the going got rough, and they did not cry like infants when they lost.

I'm buying a fight to watch Floyd Mayweather, a talented (but boring) world champ embarrass a guy who has already embarrassed himself by saying "No Mas" when he could not finish off a game opponent. Victor is Latino, and I learned long ago that the hallmark of Latino fghters is a huge heart and fighting spirit second to none. Mexican Nationals or Mexican-American makes no difference, that spirit is engrained in them. I saw the greats, the greats from both above and below the border, just like the rest of you who post here. Victor Ortiz is a little different. He isn't the first boxer to "think about" quitting, but he's the first I ever saw do it so blantantly, not to mention shamelessly. He stamped himself "Bad Goods" in my book. That stamp is permanent.

I want Floyd to win hoping I'll likely get a chance to see him get his ass handed to him by the world's best contemporary champion, Manny Pacquiao. So tonight I'll buy the fight, and tomorrow I can join in when all my CAWCB buddies are discussing it. For the record, my predictions usually suck, however I'm going with Floyd in a one sided fight that goes the distance. If he'll take the offensive he might stop Victor. I don't expect Ortiz to "Quit" because Floyd is not a damaging puncher. If the temperature in the ring gets to hot for Ortiz, I'm sure he'll not cry "No Mas!" but instead pick out a soft spot on the canvas where he can lay down for about a dozen seconds.

All-in-all, this will not be an exciting match. Just a conclusive result. My opinion.

kikibalt wrote:James and a group of friends are buying the fight here at my house, so I get to watch and record it on HD for free...Thanks James and friends!!...

Now if we can just talk Connie into making some tacos!!...Please!!, no Pizza tonight!!