Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark

[JamesPhilips]

I always find yanks a bit hypocritical when they criticise fightersfor not leaving their own country. How many times has Mayweather fought abroad?

Joe was genuinely scared of flying also.

Mayweather was fighting in the US, where the top class fighters were. Calzaghe was staying at home, where there was a dearth of quality fighters and he was slapping round cans year after year.

Why did Joe's fear of flying suddenly disappear once Hopkins and Jones were old? I doubt it was a plane that was scaring Joe when Roy offered to come down to super middle to accommodate him in 2001.

Like anyone for a big reason you can overcome a fear temporarily

[Riddick Bowie]

I always find yanks a bit hypocritical when they criticise fightersfor not leaving their own country. How many times has Mayweather fought abroad?

Joe was genuinely scared of flying also.

Mayweather was fighting in the US, where the top class fighters were. Calzaghe was staying at home, where there was a dearth of quality fighters and he was slapping round cans year after year.

Why did Joe's fear of flying suddenly disappear once Hopkins and Jones were old? I doubt it was a plane that was scaring Joe when Roy offered to come down to super middle to accommodate him in 2001.

Like anyone for a big reason you can overcome a fear temporarily

Is this a joke? You don't see any correlation in his fear disappearing when the opponent got old?

[JamesPhilips]

Mayweather was fighting in the US, where the top class fighters were. Calzaghe was staying at home, where there was a dearth of quality fighters and he was slapping round cans year after year.

Why did Joe's fear of flying suddenly disappear once Hopkins and Jones were old? I doubt it was a plane that was scaring Joe when Roy offered to come down to super middle to accommodate him in 2001.

Like anyone for a big reason you can overcome a fear temporarily

Is this a joke? You don't see any correlation in his fear disappearing when the opponent got old?

You have to ask Joe. But I don't believe that Joe is a coward on any level.

[Coco]

Mayweather was fighting in the US, where the top class fighters were. Calzaghe was staying at home, where there was a dearth of quality fighters and he was slapping round cans year after year.

Why did Joe's fear of flying suddenly disappear once Hopkins and Jones were old? I doubt it was a plane that was scaring Joe when Roy offered to come down to super middle to accommodate him in 2001.

Like anyone for a big reason you can overcome a fear temporarily

Is this a joke? You don't see any correlation in his fear disappearing when the opponent got old?

It was Hopkins who wouldn't take the fight, it had been agreed before he double his ask the day after.
Also FW never wanted his fighters to fight off his patch, it was the same for Hamed and Hatton.
And remember older fighters are usually happy to take end of career paydays rather than risking themselves in their prime, esp away from home.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Like anyone for a big reason you can overcome a fear temporarily

Is this a joke? You don't see any correlation in his fear disappearing when the opponent got old?

It was Hopkins who wouldn't take the fight, it had been agreed before he double his ask the day after.
Also FW never wanted his fighters to fight off his patch, it was the same for Hamed and Hatton.
And remember older fighters are usually happy to take end of career paydays rather than risking themselves in their prime, esp away from home.

Older fighters? You talking about Joe?

Where was the risk during his prime years.

[Coco]

Is this a joke? You don't see any correlation in his fear disappearing when the opponent got old?

It was Hopkins who wouldn't take the fight, it had been agreed before he double his ask the day after.
Also FW never wanted his fighters to fight off his patch, it was the same for Hamed and Hatton.
And remember older fighters are usually happy to take end of career paydays rather than risking themselves in their prime, esp away from home.

Older fighters? You talking about Joe?

Where was the risk during his prime years.

RJJ and Bhop

[Wales]

Disagree about RJJ

Calzaghe won his first world title in 1997 at 168
Jones Jnr moved to 175lbs a year earlier

In 2002 calzaghe was fighting Tucker Pudwill , 2 months earlier Jones had announced he was moving to heavyweight to fight Ruiz.
Jones was never the same when he came back down and lost 3 of his next 4 . Arguably lost all 4 as the win in the first contest against Tarver was incredibly debatable .

I still maintain one of Hopkins best performances was against Pavlik in the fight after Joe


Ottke fight should’ve happened . Joe would’ve won I reckon but still should’ve happened

[Riddick Bowie]

Disagree about RJJ

Calzaghe won his first world title in 1997 at 168
Jones Jnr moved to 175lbs a year earlier

In 2002 calzaghe was fighting Tucker Pudwill , 2 months earlier Jones had announced he was moving to heavyweight to fight Ruiz.
Jones was never the same when he came back down and lost 3 of his next 4 . Arguably lost all 4 as the win in the first contest against Tarver was incredibly debatable .

I still maintain one of Hopkins best performances was against Pavlik in the fight after Joe


Ottke fight should’ve happened . Joe would’ve won I reckon but still should’ve happened

Jones in 2001 was offering to come DOWN to super middle to fight Joe. Joe still wasn't interested.

Collins priced himself out of a fight with Jones, Eubank and Benn were petrified of him. People forget how intimidated fighters were of Jones in his day.

[polecateddy]

Paraphrasing Joe Calzaghe threads set to run on repeat over next 50 years; he was really good, no he never fought anyone, Robin Reid beat him, no he won clearly, he had bad hands you know.

[Controversial]

Didn't JC say after he retired that the only guy he thought he'd would've lost to in his prime was RJJ?

[Riddick Bowie]

Didn't JC say after he retired that the only guy he thought he'd would've lost to in his prime was RJJ?

BM interviewed him about fighting RJJ in 2001. He radiated defeat. His strategy was 'Maybe I can hurt him with my power?'

Better off flying to Denmark to fight Will McIntyre and Germany to rematch that guy he previously KOd in 1. Flying to America to fight Jones? He can't, he's scared of flying! Lol.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Like anyone for a big reason you can overcome a fear temporarily

Is this a joke? You don't see any correlation in his fear disappearing when the opponent got old?

It was Hopkins who wouldn't take the fight, it had been agreed before he double his ask the day after.
Also FW never wanted his fighters to fight off his patch, it was the same for Hamed and Hatton.
And remember older fighters are usually happy to take end of career paydays rather than risking themselves in their prime, esp away from home.

Hatton was the WBU champion anyway and protected.

Hamed at least unified with multiple champions and travelled to the US.

[Coco]

Is this a joke? You don't see any correlation in his fear disappearing when the opponent got old?

It was Hopkins who wouldn't take the fight, it had been agreed before he double his ask the day after.
Also FW never wanted his fighters to fight off his patch, it was the same for Hamed and Hatton.
And remember older fighters are usually happy to take end of career paydays rather than risking themselves in their prime, esp away from home.

Hatton was the WBU champion anyway and protected.

Hamed at least unified with multiple champions and travelled to the US.

FW always kept Hamed at home, I'm pretty sure Kevin Kelley was his only foreign venture

[Dioufy]

Talent wise. Up there with the best we have ever produced.
His record doesn’t match his ability.
Always scared or losing… only 2 what I would call elite wins (Kessler and Lacy - I know he turned out to be shite but a lot of people thought Joe would lose).
Lots of meaningless fights.
Did he ever unify? Did Kessler hold a belt?
If so… he still should’ve done a lot more in the gym at super middle and light heavy.

So yes, a small question mark on his career for me.

[Ruthless-RKO]

It was Hopkins who wouldn't take the fight, it had been agreed before he double his ask the day after.
Also FW never wanted his fighters to fight off his patch, it was the same for Hamed and Hatton.
And remember older fighters are usually happy to take end of career paydays rather than risking themselves in their prime, esp away from home.

Hatton was the WBU champion anyway and protected.

Hamed at least unified with multiple champions and travelled to the US.

FW always kept Hamed at home, I'm pretty sure Kevin Kelley was his only foreign venture

Wayne McCullough was at New Jersey, César Soto was in Michigan, Augie Sanchez was Conecticut and MAB was Vegas.

He left Frank W after the Wilfredo Vazquez fight.. Which then he went to US more.

The difference between Hamed and Calzaghe, whilst they did both spend a lot of time in the UK, Hamed at least attracted other world champions to come and fight him in the UK.

Hamed was selling out arena's before his opponent was even announced.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Calzaghe vacated his IBF title because he didn't want to fight Robert Stieglitz.

He said Manfredo was more popular, because he fought in the ESPN-series "The Contender".

[polecateddy]

It’s hard to compare records to Mayweather and Canelo I suppose. They are up there in the stratosphere. But Calzaghe did box and beat a heck of a lot of good high level pros. It’s ironic when someone like Oleksandr Usyk has claim on being the best cruiserweight of all time, when his highlight win at the weight was probably stopping Tony Bellew.

[Ruthless-RKO]

It’s hard to compare records to Mayweather and Canelo I suppose. They are up there in the stratosphere. But Calzaghe did box and beat a heck of a lot of good high level pros. It’s ironic when someone like Oleksandr Usyk has claim on being the best cruiserweight of all time, when his highlight win at the weight was probably stopping Tony Bellew.

That was the cherry on top KO'ing Bellew.

He beat reigning world champions, the best of the best in that era.

[jameswilson]

It’s hard to compare records to Mayweather and Canelo I suppose. They are up there in the stratosphere. But Calzaghe did box and beat a heck of a lot of good high level pros. It’s ironic when someone like Oleksandr Usyk has claim on being the best cruiserweight of all time, when his highlight win at the weight was probably stopping Tony Bellew.

That was the cherry on top KO'ing Bellew.

He beat reigning world champions, the best of the best in that era.

Away from home every time.

[Coco]

Hatton was the WBU champion anyway and protected.

Hamed at least unified with multiple champions and travelled to the US.

FW always kept Hamed at home, I'm pretty sure Kevin Kelley was his only foreign venture

Wayne McCullough was at New Jersey, César Soto was in Michigan, Augie Sanchez was Conecticut and MAB was Vegas.

He left Frank W after the Wilfredo Vazquez fight.. Which then he went to US more.

The difference between Hamed and Calzaghe, whilst they did both spend a lot of time in the UK, Hamed at least attracted other world champions to come and fight him in the UK.

Hamed was selling out arena's before his opponent was even announced.

The point being is that if you were with FW, arguably the best promoter in the world at that time and def in Britain, you stayed at home.
Under FW, his biggest stars, Hamed, JC and Hatton, only boxed once in the US between them, the Kelley fight.
Not travelling had more to do with FW than his fighters.
On leaving FW, Hatton, Hamed and JC boxed almost exclusively in the states, demonstrating that none of them had a fear of travelling.

[stujones]

I think the "blame fw" is a little much. Difference between Hatton, Hamed and I'll also throw Amir Khan in there is that they left Fw at a relatively young age in their carers and went on to challenge themselves. Joe was seemingly content with being the big fish in the little pond.

We can blame fw or bhop for not getting the fight over the line when closer to bhop's peak, but Joe was still contented to stick with his team, despite Hamed and Lennox Lewis showing you could leave and make mega bucks beforehand.

I've said this on a few occasions, you can either view Joe's career as badly managed or perfectly managed. Case in point Callum Smith i believe he could have been a 168 champion for years and considered the #1 fighting the likes of Eubank Jnr, aging Jacob's et al....but no he fought and lost every round to Canelo. Good that he tested himself or bad that he got exposed?

Do I think Joe would have been 46-0 had he fought the likes of a prime Jones, Hopkins, Harry Simon, Ottke, Beyer and the other champions either at 175 or asking guys to come up....no, Jones would have made him look silly imo Again not saying Joe would have lost to the others...but I strongly suspect he wouldnt have been zero. Personally I think he was beautifully managed.

[orbtastic]

Brook was the same after leaving fw

[Riddick Bowie]

I've said this on a few occasions, you can either view Joe's career as badly managed or perfectly managed. Case in point Callum Smith i believe he could have been a 168 champion for years and considered the #1 fighting the likes of Eubank Jnr, aging Jacob's et al....but no he fought and lost every round to Canelo. Good that he tested himself or bad that he got exposed?

Totally agree. The majority of boxing fans never seem to look at things analytically. They elevate fighters like Joe because of their records and overlook better fighters who have Ls because, unlike Joe, they fought the best, or didn't have the luxury of a paper title, and the opportunity to lie low until some big names grew old. It's maddening.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I've said this on a few occasions, you can either view Joe's career as badly managed or perfectly managed. Case in point Callum Smith i believe he could have been a 168 champion for years and considered the #1 fighting the likes of Eubank Jnr, aging Jacob's et al....but no he fought and lost every round to Canelo. Good that he tested himself or bad that he got exposed?

Totally agree. The majority of boxing fans never seem to look at things analytically. They elevate fighters like Joe because of their records and overlook better fighters who have Ls because, unlike Joe, they fought the best, or didn't have the luxury of a paper title, and the opportunity to lie low until some big names grew old. It's maddening.

You've both hit the nail there really.. 100%

[polecateddy]

Callum Smith seems a poor example to raise in that his career appears pretty much over at this point and at best he will be a footnote in British super-middle history.

In terms of Calzaghe’s record, other than a peak Jones (who would have outpointed Joe), he didn’t miss much. It’s a bit of a reach to suggest Harry Simon, who was really only effective as a light-middle and had a lot of lifestyle issues. He beat a fair version of Hopkins even without sparring and chronic hands. Beyer, Ottke …geez, come on!