BoxRec

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 16:39

Controversial wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 11:49

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 11:37

And Wilder was about 2 stones smaller than Fury and most of the other guys that he beat leading up to it.
Mavrovic was about two stones smaller than Lewis.

It's not about the weight, it's about what you can do.

Of course but Wilder isn't 5'9"/5"10" with a 67"/68" reach. When all physical attributes plus speed, power and weight are against you it makes it a very difficult fight.

If sheer size and weight made no difference do you think Fury would have been as successful against Wilder, i.e. Fury was the same size and weight as Marciano? Of course not, his size helped him fight the fight he did, without it he would've been splattered in quick time.

If Fury was the same size and Marciano, but still had the exact same ability as he does now? Same speed, power, defense, chin, punching accuracy etc. ? I would say he would have fought to a draw against Wilder.

Speed power, and weight are against Marciano?
I will take these one at a time:
Speed? huh? How is Wilder faster than Marciano? I don't see how you come to this conclusion. Marciano was clearly faster.
Power? Well, we have one fight to base Wilder's power on. He didn't stop his man. So you should not automatically assume that Wilder has a power advantage.
Weight? Yes. And that by itself means nothing.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:45 If Fury was smaller, he would be a smaller target. He would fight a different strategy; he would try to get inside.
You keep thinking that height and reach is an automatic advantage and never has a disadvantage. That is is not the case.

First, not everyone is a expert at using reach. Even the great Tyson Furry is not really that brilliant at it.

Second, your opponent is going to get inside sometimes, if even you are great at using your reach. A fighter with long arms is at a disadvantage when fighting inside. It's easier if your arms are shorter to throw punches inside. Very few tall fighters are great at fighting inside; of course there are exceptions.

Third, if you are tall and have a long torso, you are a bigger target to get hit in the inside.

You also keep looking at it as what Marciano would be up against. You also have to consider what Wilder would be up against. He would fighting someone that throws about 3x as many punches as he is used to. That is a big deal. He would have to adapt to the pace of that. And that would be round after round. Marciano does not let up.
He would be going against that is a lot faster than what he is used to. He would have to adapt to that.
He would have a much smaller target to hit than what he is used to. He would have to adapt tot that.

Anyway, you keep dismissing Marciano's "skill set". I have asked a couple of times what Dempsey could do so much better than Marciano could do, and you never answered that.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:52 Good one.
I listed things point by point. You might not like it, but that isn't rambling.

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:55

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:52 Good one.
I listed things point by point. You might not like it, but that isn't rambling.

Good points, although I don't agree. Just that your posts are longer than I prefer.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 16:36

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:55

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:52 Good one.
I listed things point by point. You might not like it, but that isn't rambling.

Good points, although I don't agree. Just that your posts are longer than I prefer.

Sorry if that last post was too long. I don't think on average my posts are longer than the average person's.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 11:45 If Fury was smaller, he would be a smaller target. He would fight a different strategy; he would try to get inside.
You keep thinking that height and reach is an automatic advantage and never has a disadvantage. That is is not the case.

First, not everyone is a expert at using reach. Even the great Tyson Furry is not really that brilliant at it.

Second, your opponent is going to get inside sometimes, if even you are great at using your reach. A fighter with long arms is at a disadvantage when fighting inside. It's easier if your arms are shorter to throw punches inside. Very few tall fighters are great at fighting inside; of course there are exceptions.

Third, if you are tall and have a long torso, you are a bigger target to get hit in the inside.

You also keep looking at it as what Marciano would be up against. You also have to consider what Wilder would be up against. He would fighting someone that throws about 3x as many punches as he is used to. That is a big deal. He would have to adapt to the pace of that. And that would be round after round. Marciano does not let up.
He would be going against that is a lot faster than what he is used to. He would have to adapt to that.
He would have a much smaller target to hit than what he is used to. He would have to adapt tot that.

Anyway, you keep dismissing Marciano's "skill set". I have asked a couple of times what Dempsey could do so much better than Marciano could do, and you never answered that.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑07 Dec 2018, 02:45 Many of the guys competing at heavyweight are big but it seems like there has been plenty of talent at light heavyweight and cruiserweight in recent years. If the giants at heavyweight were comparable to the giant heavyweights of past eras I would expect more talented cruiserweights to move up in weight given all the money they could make. Gomez, Adamek, Haye, and Cunningham all tried moving up and came up short.

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑11 Dec 2018, 03:46 I don't know if putting on that much weight is a good idea for Wilder, it might make sense to come in heavier but 245 could be too heavy for him.