Frank
Pug is right. You did a great job with your sons. Not many fighters reach the level of accomplishment that Frankie and Tony achieved.
My wife used to work with the father of John D'Acuisto. John pitched for the Padres , Angels,and Giants. I know you're not this way about your boys,but the old man was disappointed his son didn't go a lot ffurther. The old man would blame his son's wife with hurting his career. I'd tell the old man that his son achieved more than 99% of the kids that sign a contract. Hell he stayed up there in the BIGS for cryin' out loud. I know you're proud of your sons,and your family.
dagosd2000 wrote:Frank
Pug is right. You did a great job with your sons. Not many fighters reach the level of accomplishment that Frankie and Tony achieved.
My wife used to work with the father of John D'Acuisto. John pitched for the Padres , Angels,and Giants. I know you're not this way about your boys,but the old man was disappointed his son didn't go a lot ffurther. The old man would blame his son's wife with hurting his career. I'd tell the old man that his son achieved more than 99% of the kids that sign a contract. Hell he stayed up there in the BIGS for cryin' out loud. I know you're proud of your sons,and your family.
diego,
I'm proud of the boys, they did their best, and you can't ask for more, I never felt bad because they didn't become champions, they went as far as they could with the tools they had, they did them selves proud, I think.
About a year ago I started a thread about Larry Boardman and how in 1956 he beat four world champions.
Sandy Saddler
Bud Smith
Paddy Demarco
Jimmy Carter.
Boardman was a solid fighter.
Expug wrote:About a year ago I started a thread about Larry Boardman and how in 1956 he beat four world champions.
Sandy Saddler
Bud Smith
Paddy Demarco
Jimmy Carter.
Boardman was a solid fighter.
A newspaper colleague recently wrote a scathing story regarding the statue of Oscar De La Hoya that is scheduled to be erected on Star Plaza at Staples Center in Los Angeles.
Said colleague basically wrote that this is a farce, that De La Hoya is not deserving of such an honor. He said that De La Hoya should certainly not have a statue adorn Star Plaza next to those of Magic Johnson and Wayne Gretzky, Lakers and Kings greats, respectively.
De La Hoya has lost all of his big fights, the colleague wrote. And, he wondered, how could De La Hoya possibly receive such an accolade before Lakers greats Jerry West and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?
The opinion here is that some of what this colleague wrote made sense, and some did not.
First of all, even though De La Hoya has won world titles in a record six weight classes, he has indeed lost more big fights than he has won. He lost to Felix Trinidad Jr., Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather Jr. and "Sugar" Shane Mosley twice.
Those were arguably the five biggest fights of De La Hoya's career.
Big fights De La Hoya won were against Rafael Ruelas, Pernell Whitaker, Ike Quartey and Fernando Vargas. The knockout win over Ruelas was good, but not great because Ruelas had about as much balance as a one-legged fighter. The win over Whitaker was sloppy and, in the eyes of some, controversial as many experts (not this one) had Whitaker winning.
The win over Quartey might have been De La Hoya's most impressive, even though there were those writers (again, not this one) who thought Quartey won. As for the victory over Vargas, De La Hoya showed tremendous heart in this one because Vargas was jacked on steroids and very strong in the beginning. It was also a fight between hated rivals and it was De La Hoya who came through with flying colors and an 11th-round stoppage.
Vargas may have been damaged goods thanks to a vicious knockout suffered at the hands of Trinidad two years earlier. Still, it was a very good, but not terrific, victory.
Speaking of Trinidad, there will no doubt be those who argue that De La Hoya won that fight, that he was robbed of a decision. It's true, most experts had De La Hoya winning (this one scored it a draw). But De La Hoya didn't do himself any favors by sticking and moving the first nine rounds, then literally running away from Trinidad the last three.
Remember, this was a fight that De La Hoya promised would be a war between the world's two greatest welterweights at the time. Trinidad wanted to war, De La Hoya did not.
Interestingly, it is the only fight of De La Hoya's career in which he really took the safety first approach.
OK, so De La Hoya is not an all-out great fighter. And one would think that in order to receive a statue at such a prestigious place, greatness would be a prerequisite.
But let's keep in mind that there is more to De La Hoya than just wins and losses. He has generated more pay-per-view dollars than any fighter in history.
In a short time, he has become one of the top promoters in the game.
That is not to mention everything that De La Hoya has done for the city of Los Angeles outside the ring. He donated a large sum of money to White Memorial Hospital in Boyle Heights (near East L.A.) for a cancer wing bearing the name of his late mother, Cecilia, as well as for a children's wing bearing his name.
Through his Oscar De La Hoya Youth Foundation, De La Hoya built the De La Hoya Youth Boxing Center in East L.A. It housed a boxing program as well as a learning center. The building was recently torn down to make room for Oscar De La Hoya Animo High School, a namesake school that is part of the Green Dot program that offers education to Los Angeles communities rife with social and economic adversity. It opened in 2003 and its temporary home is in downtown L.A.
Magic Johnson has done a lot for the city of Los Angeles as well. But if Gretzky, West and Abdul-Jabbar have contributed as much to the community in this way, we haven't heard about it.
And what about Gretzky? How did he get a statue before West and Abdul-Jabbar? West played his entire career for the Lakers and Abdul-Jabbar played 14 of his 20 years with them. These guys are two of the greatest basketball players in history and both brought championships to Los Angeles.
Gretzky played the first nine years of his NHL career with the Edmonton Oilers, helping them to four Stanley Cup championships. He played the next eight years of his career with the Kings, but never brought them the Cup.
Did politics enter into Gretzky getting a statue before West and Abdul-Jabbar? That would not be surprising because politics are everywhere. Did politics enter into De La Hoya being scheduled for his statue? Well, we tried to get hold of Richard Schaefer on Tuesday, but he was in England and unavailable.
This is a poignant question regarding De La Hoya. Schaefer, CEO of De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions, and Anschutz Entertainment Group executive Tim Leiweke announced the imminence of De La Hoya's statue at the May 1 news conference promoting De La Hoya's May 3 fight against Steve Forbes at Home Depot Center in Carson, Calif.
Home Depot Center is owned by AEG, the same company that owns and operates Staples Center. Seven days after that announcement, Golden Boy announced that AEG had purchased a significant amount of stock in Golden Boy.
Was the De La Hoya statue part of the deal? We'll ask Schaefer upon his return, but it would be surprising if he admitted that. Not that we are questioning Schaefer's character, but spilling those beans would take the shine off De La Hoya's statue.
The feeling here is that if one takes all of De La Hoya's achievements both in and out of the ring, a case could be made for him being deserving of this statue. If one goes strictly by his efforts in the ring, he is not.
Whatever the case, there is no excuse for West and Abbul-Jabbar not already having statues on Star Plaza. That is a head-scratcher, to be sure. West was "Mr. Clutch" and Abdul-Jabbar the greatest scoring machine in history.
But the Golden Boy is apparently going to beat both of them to the punch.
kikibalt wrote:A statue that goes beyond the record
By Robert Morales
A newspaper colleague recently wrote a scathing story regarding the statue of Oscar De La Hoya that is scheduled to be erected on Star Plaza at Staples Center in Los Angeles.
Said colleague basically wrote that this is a farce, that De La Hoya is not deserving of such an honor. He said that De La Hoya should certainly not have a statue adorn Star Plaza next to those of Magic Johnson and Wayne Gretzky, Lakers and Kings greats, respectively.
De La Hoya has lost all of his big fights, the colleague wrote. And, he wondered, how could De La Hoya possibly receive such an accolade before Lakers greats Jerry West and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?
The opinion here is that some of what this colleague wrote made sense, and some did not.
First of all, even though De La Hoya has won world titles in a record six weight classes, he has indeed lost more big fights than he has won. He lost to Felix Trinidad Jr., Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather Jr. and "Sugar" Shane Mosley twice.
Those were arguably the five biggest fights of De La Hoya's career.
Big fights De La Hoya won were against Rafael Ruelas, Pernell Whitaker, Ike Quartey and Fernando Vargas. The knockout win over Ruelas was good, but not great because Ruelas had about as much balance as a one-legged fighter. The win over Whitaker was sloppy and, in the eyes of some, controversial as many experts (not this one) had Whitaker winning.
The win over Quartey might have been De La Hoya's most impressive, even though there were those writers (again, not this one) who thought Quartey won. As for the victory over Vargas, De La Hoya showed tremendous heart in this one because Vargas was jacked on steroids and very strong in the beginning. It was also a fight between hated rivals and it was De La Hoya who came through with flying colors and an 11th-round stoppage.
Vargas may have been damaged goods thanks to a vicious knockout suffered at the hands of Trinidad two years earlier. Still, it was a very good, but not terrific, victory.
Speaking of Trinidad, there will no doubt be those who argue that De La Hoya won that fight, that he was robbed of a decision. It's true, most experts had De La Hoya winning (this one scored it a draw). But De La Hoya didn't do himself any favors by sticking and moving the first nine rounds, then literally running away from Trinidad the last three.
Remember, this was a fight that De La Hoya promised would be a war between the world's two greatest welterweights at the time. Trinidad wanted to war, De La Hoya did not.
Interestingly, it is the only fight of De La Hoya's career in which he really took the safety first approach.
OK, so De La Hoya is not an all-out great fighter. And one would think that in order to receive a statue at such a prestigious place, greatness would be a prerequisite.
But let's keep in mind that there is more to De La Hoya than just wins and losses. He has generated more pay-per-view dollars than any fighter in history.
In a short time, he has become one of the top promoters in the game.
That is not to mention everything that De La Hoya has done for the city of Los Angeles outside the ring. He donated a large sum of money to White Memorial Hospital in Boyle Heights (near East L.A.) for a cancer wing bearing the name of his late mother, Cecilia, as well as for a children's wing bearing his name.
Through his Oscar De La Hoya Youth Foundation, De La Hoya built the De La Hoya Youth Boxing Center in East L.A. It housed a boxing program as well as a learning center. The building was recently torn down to make room for Oscar De La Hoya Animo High School, a namesake school that is part of the Green Dot program that offers education to Los Angeles communities rife with social and economic adversity. It opened in 2003 and its temporary home is in downtown L.A.
Magic Johnson has done a lot for the city of Los Angeles as well. But if Gretzky, West and Abdul-Jabbar have contributed as much to the community in this way, we haven't heard about it.
And what about Gretzky? How did he get a statue before West and Abdul-Jabbar? West played his entire career for the Lakers and Abdul-Jabbar played 14 of his 20 years with them. These guys are two of the greatest basketball players in history and both brought championships to Los Angeles.
Gretzky played the first nine years of his NHL career with the Edmonton Oilers, helping them to four Stanley Cup championships. He played the next eight years of his career with the Kings, but never brought them the Cup.
Did politics enter into Gretzky getting a statue before West and Abdul-Jabbar? That would not be surprising because politics are everywhere. Did politics enter into De La Hoya being scheduled for his statue? Well, we tried to get hold of Richard Schaefer on Tuesday, but he was in England and unavailable.
This is a poignant question regarding De La Hoya. Schaefer, CEO of De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions, and Anschutz Entertainment Group executive Tim Leiweke announced the imminence of De La Hoya's statue at the May 1 news conference promoting De La Hoya's May 3 fight against Steve Forbes at Home Depot Center in Carson, Calif.
Home Depot Center is owned by AEG, the same company that owns and operates Staples Center. Seven days after that announcement, Golden Boy announced that AEG had purchased a significant amount of stock in Golden Boy.
Was the De La Hoya statue part of the deal? We'll ask Schaefer upon his return, but it would be surprising if he admitted that. Not that we are questioning Schaefer's character, but spilling those beans would take the shine off De La Hoya's statue.
The feeling here is that if one takes all of De La Hoya's achievements both in and out of the ring, a case could be made for him being deserving of this statue. If one goes strictly by his efforts in the ring, he is not.
Whatever the case, there is no excuse for West and Abbul-Jabbar not already having statues on Star Plaza. That is a head-scratcher, to be sure. West was "Mr. Clutch" and Abdul-Jabbar the greatest scoring machine in history.
But the Golden Boy is apparently going to beat both of them to the punch.
The opinion here is that fighters, Delahoya included, are the ONLY athletes that deserve statues.
How about we take down the Gretzky statue and put one up of Danny Lopez while we are at it.
Hell, if you go to Rome or Greece and take a look at all those ancient statues , what do you see?
Gladiators, and guys in chariots like Ben Hur.
These people had the right idea.
I bet you can search far and wide and you wont find a basketball player statue outside a freakin colliseum.
In my opinion, the greatest L.A.-based fighter was Henry Armstrong, not Oscar De La Hoya. Of course, De La Hoya made much more money than Hammerin' Hank.
Ok I knew Archie Moore a little. I'd drop in at his Any Boys Can Club once in a while and help out. I'd see him in South East San Diego at Ocean View Park or at Jackie Robinson Field. I told you how I bumped into him at Huffman's Bar B Q on Imperial Avenue one afternoon. He was by himself,and when he saw me he called me over. He mentioned a toung fighter he was trying to9 bring along,but I knew what the catch was. 'Ol Arch wanted to talk music. Jazz music. He told me he liked talking about jazz as much as boxing. He knew I liked jazz and that was enough to keep him goin'. You see, I also saw the Mongoose whenever the "cats" were in San Diego playing at one of the local spots. Mostly they performed at Jazzville when it was up on Market Street,and then when it moved downtown on Broadway. Sometimes the Blue Dolphin on Imperial would get a good 'blues' group in there.
Archie once thought of joining up with Lucky Thompson,the tenor sax player,and going on the road.Archie was really into the "Bop" musicians. In fact all the black fighters of Moore's era were into the "Be Bop". Louis,Walcott,Charles,Sugar Ray,and Hammerin' Hank frequented the jazz clubs in which ever town they were fighting in. Archie liked to talk about the clubs on 52nd Street. The Four Dueces,The Onyx Club,and Jimmy Ryan's.
"On one side of the street would be Dizzy and across the street Art Tatum would be playin' piano. It was like having Mozart on one side of the street and Beethoven on the other side," said 'Ol Arch as he shook his head.
"Yeah,If I had a time machine,52nd Street would be one my first visits."
I asked Archie how close he was to give up boxing and becoming a jazz musician.
"I actually traveled with Lucky Thompson's group for a while,but I knew I could make more money fighting."
Archie ,at that time ,was the Light Heavyweight Champ. For the first time he told me fighting was beginning to pay off.
"Besides,"said Moore,"Most of those 'cats' had life styles that eventually caught up with them."
"Yeah. What was that old Redd Foxx line if he didn't like you?"
Arch laughed. "I hope your daughter marries a jazz musician."
We talked music back and forth and could see it was time to get goin'. But before I left I had to get his opinion.
"Arch. Who was your favorite?"
Archie took a little breath and then opened a warm smile.
"Why that would have to be 'Bird'.
"Me too Arch."
All of a sudden with the reference to Charlie Parker,our conversation became solemn. I waited for Archie to continue.
"It was like God dropped him from the sky and blessed us."
"I know what you mean. No one sounded like him and no one ever will."
"Stitt was close. Cannonball could play fast like 'Bird',and Pepper was there too,but no one could think like 'Bird'."
"You don't like to throw around the word 'genius',but it certainly applied to him",I said.
Archie put his napkin down.
"Funny,but maybe that's one reason I didn't take up playing music. You know you could never be as good as Charlie Parker."
"He made a lot of guys put down their altos",I said.
"To think he was dead at 34. He could have given us so much more."
"You're right Arch,but if he was alive today I don't think the legacy would have been the same. Old age takes away the mystique."
Archie nodded.
"You're probably right."
Imagine, Archie Moore telling me I was right about a topic on his favorite subject. Or at least one of his favorites. Maybe that's why he'd motion me over whenever he saw me.
Frank
You know what I miss were those little clubs that featured good Jazz and blues groups. These places weren't fancy or located in the best neighborhoods,but they were full of atmosphere. I got in late and missed of most those days. Jazz and Blues moved to the college campuses,the fancy theaters,and resort areas. I'm glad those guys that were left could now make some decent dough,like B.B. King,but to be honest how can they get a 'feel' for playin' the Blues at The Park Sheraton?
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 28 May 2008, 21:44, edited 1 time in total.
dagosd2000 wrote:Frank
You know what I miss were those little clubs that featured good Jazz and blues groups. These places weren't fancy or located in the best neighborhoods,but they were full of atmosphere. I got in late and missed of most those days. Jazz and Blues moved to the college campuses,the fancy theaters,and resort areas. I'm glad those guys that were left could now make some decent dough,like B.B. King,but to be honest how can they get a 'feel' for playin' the Blues at The Park Sheraton?
diego,
I was never much into Jazz, the Blues and early R & B was my thing, in the 1950s there were lots of small clubs on Whittier Bl. (E.L.A) and my wife and I used go to said clubs and dance the nite away.
