BoxRec

coneye wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 03:34 Mmmm is this gonna be Furys excuse

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:38

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑11 Jan 2024, 19:33

polecateddy wrote: ↑11 Jan 2024, 18:45

I generally think that Bowe would have beaten the pre-Stewart version of Lennox Lewis. That they didn’t fight is a much more significant loss to heavyweight history than Fury and Joshua not fighting each other.

I agree, and have always thought so. Bowe was a very complete fighter at that stage, and had all the physical tool to boot, whilst Lewis still had some bad habíts.

Bowe would have exposed them.

The thing is Eddie Futch told Emmanual Steward he thought Lewis would walk through Bowe. And Lennox did actually walk through Bowe in the amateurs. And he did walk through Golota in a round a few months after Golota had retired Bowe.

Bowe matched up well against Holyfield who liked to fight inside. He arguably lost against Tubbs when a past prime Tubbs boxed him. He lost to Holyfield when Holyfield boxed instead of slugged. And he lost to Golota simply because Golota simply jabbed him in the face. Okay he didn't technically lose, but he did to the fans

And you think Bowe with those limitations is beating Lenny the Lion, nah, not having it

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:38 The thing is Eddie Futch told Emmanual Steward he thought Lewis would walk through Bowe. And Lennox did actually walk through Bowe in the amateurs. And he did walk through Golota in a round a few months after Golota had retired Bowe.

Bowe matched up well against Holyfield who liked to fight inside. He arguably lost against Tubbs when a past prime Tubbs boxed him. He lost to Holyfield when Holyfield boxed instead of slugged. And he lost to Golota simply because Golota simply jabbed him in the face. Okay he didn't technically lose, but he did to the fans

And you think Bowe with those limitations is beating Lenny the Lion, nah, not having it

BigDoofus wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 04:54

coneye wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 03:34 Mmmm is this gonna be Furys excuse

We just need big lennox to confirm it and Teddy's toupee to fantasize about a hairy arsehole and it will become FACT.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 05:30

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:38 The thing is Eddie Futch told Emmanual Steward he thought Lewis would walk through Bowe. And Lennox did actually walk through Bowe in the amateurs. And he did walk through Golota in a round a few months after Golota had retired Bowe.

Bowe matched up well against Holyfield who liked to fight inside. He arguably lost against Tubbs when a past prime Tubbs boxed him. He lost to Holyfield when Holyfield boxed instead of slugged. And he lost to Golota simply because Golota simply jabbed him in the face. Okay he didn't technically lose, but he did to the fans

And you think Bowe with those limitations is beating Lenny the Lion, nah, not having it

When did Eddie Futch make such a remark? Sounds like bullshit in what is a very biased post that misses a great deal of nuance. For one, Lewis did not "walk through" Bowe. Bowe hurt Lewis, Lewis hurt Bowe, the ref prematurely stopped it in Lewis' favour. That result has no bearing on a later pro fight anymore than Tyrell Biggs beating Lewis in 84 does, or Tillman beating Tyson twice the same year, or Jorge Gonzalez walking through Bowe in 87.

Bowe looked great against a prime Evander Holyfield, Lewis was not able to look great against a faded, nearly 40 year old Holyfield. A large section of the press scored the rematch for the ancient Holyfield.

Bowe's bad habits caught up with him against Golota, Lewis taking out the crazy Pole in 1 doesn't make Lewis a lock to beat Bowe retroactively. If your thing is looking at one fighter hypercritically and the other one with rose tinted glasses then you're never going to make a compelling argument. If you want to talk about "limitations" why not look at Lennox being outjabbed by Bruno and Mercer, getting splattered by McCall and Rahman, and quickly retiring rather than risk tangling with Vitali a second time?

big lennox wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 05:30
Thank goodness for the Saudi money, because before that came along Fury was doing the most tremendous impression of someone who didn't fancy taking on Uysk, hence former World Champions like Johnny Nelson saying they didn't think Fury believed he could beat Uysk..

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 05:55

Billy Tully wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 05:30

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:38 The thing is Eddie Futch told Emmanual Steward he thought Lewis would walk through Bowe. And Lennox did actually walk through Bowe in the amateurs. And he did walk through Golota in a round a few months after Golota had retired Bowe.

Bowe matched up well against Holyfield who liked to fight inside. He arguably lost against Tubbs when a past prime Tubbs boxed him. He lost to Holyfield when Holyfield boxed instead of slugged. And he lost to Golota simply because Golota simply jabbed him in the face. Okay he didn't technically lose, but he did to the fans

And you think Bowe with those limitations is beating Lenny the Lion, nah, not having it

When did Eddie Futch make such a remark? Sounds like bullshit in what is a very biased post that misses a great deal of nuance. For one, Lewis did not "walk through" Bowe. Bowe hurt Lewis, Lewis hurt Bowe, the ref prematurely stopped it in Lewis' favour. That result has no bearing on a later pro fight anymore than Tyrell Biggs beating Lewis in 84 does, or Tillman beating Tyson twice the same year, or Jorge Gonzalez walking through Bowe in 87.

Bowe looked great against a prime Evander Holyfield, Lewis was not able to look great against a faded, nearly 40 year old Holyfield. A large section of the press scored the rematch for the ancient Holyfield.

Bowe's bad habits caught up with him against Golota, Lewis taking out the crazy Pole in 1 doesn't make Lewis a lock to beat Bowe retroactively. If your thing is looking at one fighter hypercritically and the other one with rose tinted glasses then you're never going to make a compelling argument. If you want to talk about "limitations" why not look at Lennox being outjabbed by Bruno and Mercer, getting splattered by McCall and Rahman, and quickly retiring rather than risk tangling with Vitali a second time?

Eddie Futch said that Bowe was the most naturally talented fighter he ever trained. I find it extremely hard to believe he would have said Lewis would have walked through him.

Bowe dominated Holyfield in fight 1, and was getting on top in fight 2, when the fanman shite happened, which I think favoured Holyfield as it gave him time to recover.

Bowe's prime was short, and by the golota fight he was already well on the slide - his own fault, but nevertheless it's a fact.

I'd have picked Bowe to find an uppercut on the inside to hurt Lewis and finish him off had they met in Bowe's prime, it's a crying shame we never got that fight.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 05:30

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:38 The thing is Eddie Futch told Emmanual Steward he thought Lewis would walk through Bowe. And Lennox did actually walk through Bowe in the amateurs. And he did walk through Golota in a round a few months after Golota had retired Bowe.

Bowe matched up well against Holyfield who liked to fight inside. He arguably lost against Tubbs when a past prime Tubbs boxed him. He lost to Holyfield when Holyfield boxed instead of slugged. And he lost to Golota simply because Golota simply jabbed him in the face. Okay he didn't technically lose, but he did to the fans

And you think Bowe with those limitations is beating Lenny the Lion, nah, not having it

When did Eddie Futch make such a remark? Sounds like bullshit in what is a very biased post that misses a great deal of nuance. For one, Lewis did not "walk through" Bowe. Bowe hurt Lewis, Lewis hurt Bowe, the ref prematurely stopped it in Lewis' favour. That result has no bearing on a later pro fight anymore than Tyrell Biggs beating Lewis in 84 does, or Tillman beating Tyson twice the same year, or Jorge Gonzalez walking through Bowe in 87.

Bowe looked great against a prime Evander Holyfield, Lewis was not able to look great against a faded, nearly 40 year old Holyfield. A large section of the press scored the rematch for the ancient Holyfield.

Bowe's bad habits caught up with him against Golota, Lewis taking out the crazy Pole in 1 doesn't make Lewis a lock to beat Bowe retroactively. If your thing is looking at one fighter hypercritically and the other one with rose tinted glasses then you're never going to make a compelling argument. If you want to talk about "limitations" why not look at Lennox being outjabbed by Bruno and Mercer, getting splattered by McCall and Rahman, and quickly retiring rather than risk tangling with Vitali a second time?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:50

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:38

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑11 Jan 2024, 19:33

I agree, and have always thought so. Bowe was a very complete fighter at that stage, and had all the physical tool to boot, whilst Lewis still had some bad habíts.

Bowe would have exposed them.

The thing is Eddie Futch told Emmanual Steward he thought Lewis would walk through Bowe. And Lennox did actually walk through Bowe in the amateurs. And he did walk through Golota in a round a few months after Golota had retired Bowe.

Bowe matched up well against Holyfield who liked to fight inside. He arguably lost against Tubbs when a past prime Tubbs boxed him. He lost to Holyfield when Holyfield boxed instead of slugged. And he lost to Golota simply because Golota simply jabbed him in the face. Okay he didn't technically lose, but he did to the fans

And you think Bowe with those limitations is beating Lenny the Lion, nah, not having it

len got the win over bow in the ams but he certainly didnt walk through him, he was getting it put on him and getting well beat until turning the fight with a big shot in the 2nd. and it's not like bowe was levelled, it was one of those that would never come close to being a stoppage in the pros, and bowe was known for his recovery as a pro

not saying it wasnt a legit win, because they are very cautious in am boxing, but hardly len walking over him and showing that it woulda happened in the early 90s too

big lennox wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 05:30

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:38

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑11 Jan 2024, 19:33

I agree, and have always thought so. Bowe was a very complete fighter at that stage, and had all the physical tool to boot, whilst Lewis still had some bad habíts.

Bowe would have exposed them.

The thing is Eddie Futch told Emmanual Steward he thought Lewis would walk through Bowe. And Lennox did actually walk through Bowe in the amateurs. And he did walk through Golota in a round a few months after Golota had retired Bowe.

Bowe matched up well against Holyfield who liked to fight inside. He arguably lost against Tubbs when a past prime Tubbs boxed him. He lost to Holyfield when Holyfield boxed instead of slugged. And he lost to Golota simply because Golota simply jabbed him in the face. Okay he didn't technically lose, but he did to the fans

And you think Bowe with those limitations is beating Lenny the Lion, nah, not having it

I think the Bowe that boxed Golota in the first and second fights was finished. His balance was awful and I think the Holyfield fights and going up and down in weights had taken their toll on him.

I still remember the shock of hearing Bowe speak after the second Golota fight. It was suddenly very slurred.

Bowe is a wasted talent. He was sensational in the first Holyfield fight and still amazing in their next two fights.

With more discipline, he could have achieved even more. I would have loved to have seen the Bowe in the first Holyfield fight vs Lennox. Bowe had a lot of heart, so it would have been competitive. A great pity it didn't happen, and it does taint Bowe's legacy.

That's why it is so important that Fury vs Uysk happens.

Thank goodness for the Saudi money, because before that came along Fury was doing the most tremendous impression of someone who didn't fancy taking on Uysk, hence former World Champions like Johnny Nelson saying they didn't think Fury believed he could beat Uysk..

Perhaps that was why there was only 68k US pay per view buys for Fury vs Ngannou, despite a £500m marketing campaign.

The Gratest wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:48

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:09 do you think the fight is at risk due to regional tensions?

There's already a thread about what Fury's weight will be mate.

polecateddy wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 14:45 Bowe rode at his highest when schooling Larry Donald, who had outclassed Jeremy Williams and was being lauded for his Larry Holmes jab and of course Gonzalez, the Cuban with wins over Bowe and Lewis in the amateurs. At that time Bowe was the best heavyweight on the planet. But definitely shot against Golata. Bowe crashed form quickly and was done in those fights.

SeanBrennan wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 14:51

polecateddy wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 14:45 Bowe rode at his highest when schooling Larry Donald, who had outclassed Jeremy Williams and was being lauded for his Larry Holmes jab and of course Gonzalez, the Cuban with wins over Bowe and Lewis in the amateurs. At that time Bowe was the best heavyweight on the planet. But definitely shot against Golata. Bowe crashed form quickly and was done in those fights.

is there a broadly known reason why he refused to fight Lewis in the pros. I remember him lobbing the belt in a bin but that was just a photo when I was a nipper.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 12:52

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:50

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:38

The thing is Eddie Futch told Emmanual Steward he thought Lewis would walk through Bowe. And Lennox did actually walk through Bowe in the amateurs. And he did walk through Golota in a round a few months after Golota had retired Bowe.

Bowe matched up well against Holyfield who liked to fight inside. He arguably lost against Tubbs when a past prime Tubbs boxed him. He lost to Holyfield when Holyfield boxed instead of slugged. And he lost to Golota simply because Golota simply jabbed him in the face. Okay he didn't technically lose, but he did to the fans

And you think Bowe with those limitations is beating Lenny the Lion, nah, not having it

len got the win over bow in the ams but he certainly didnt walk through him, he was getting it put on him and getting well beat until turning the fight with a big shot in the 2nd. and it's not like bowe was levelled, it was one of those that would never come close to being a stoppage in the pros, and bowe was known for his recovery as a pro

not saying it wasnt a legit win, because they are very cautious in am boxing, but hardly len walking over him and showing that it woulda happened in the early 90s too

Nah he wasn't getting well beat. Lenny was winning everything on the outside. Bowe was winning everything on the inside. That's pretty much how it'd go in the pros. Lewis wins everything outside, Bowe gets the better of it inside. Also I've rewatched it and Bowe looked a bit out of it to me when it was stopped.

As for powers of recovery, well sure but against who? Because Holyfield didn't have upper tier power. Bowe was kept away from punchers in the pros. Didn't face Lewis, Foreman, Rudduck, Morrison, Bruno, McCall. He'd beat the latter boxers most likely, but we haven't seen him in with big punchers. Bowe said the guy who hit him the hardest was Herbie Hide, for the record.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 12:31

Billy Tully wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 05:30

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: ↑12 Jan 2024, 17:38 The thing is Eddie Futch told Emmanual Steward he thought Lewis would walk through Bowe. And Lennox did actually walk through Bowe in the amateurs. And he did walk through Golota in a round a few months after Golota had retired Bowe.

Bowe matched up well against Holyfield who liked to fight inside. He arguably lost against Tubbs when a past prime Tubbs boxed him. He lost to Holyfield when Holyfield boxed instead of slugged. And he lost to Golota simply because Golota simply jabbed him in the face. Okay he didn't technically lose, but he did to the fans

And you think Bowe with those limitations is beating Lenny the Lion, nah, not having it

When did Eddie Futch make such a remark? Sounds like bullshit in what is a very biased post that misses a great deal of nuance. For one, Lewis did not "walk through" Bowe. Bowe hurt Lewis, Lewis hurt Bowe, the ref prematurely stopped it in Lewis' favour. That result has no bearing on a later pro fight anymore than Tyrell Biggs beating Lewis in 84 does, or Tillman beating Tyson twice the same year, or Jorge Gonzalez walking through Bowe in 87.

Bowe looked great against a prime Evander Holyfield, Lewis was not able to look great against a faded, nearly 40 year old Holyfield. A large section of the press scored the rematch for the ancient Holyfield.

Bowe's bad habits caught up with him against Golota, Lewis taking out the crazy Pole in 1 doesn't make Lewis a lock to beat Bowe retroactively. If your thing is looking at one fighter hypercritically and the other one with rose tinted glasses then you're never going to make a compelling argument. If you want to talk about "limitations" why not look at Lennox being outjabbed by Bruno and Mercer, getting splattered by McCall and Rahman, and quickly retiring rather than risk tangling with Vitali a second time?

Do you think Emanuel Steward is a liar?

'I was with Eddie Futch one day and he, and his wife, and I were together in Las Vegas just sitting at a little coffee shop. I asked him about the Riddick Bowe fight when he threw away the belt rather than fight Lennox. He said, “Emanuel that was my doing. It was my decision because what happened in the ’88 Olympics, I always felt if they fought professionally it would have been the same thing. Even though Bowe was good, Lennox was always such a physically strong and mentally strong big kid, that eventually he would have still overpowered Bowe again because he was just that type of a rough guy”.'

Source: The Legacy Of Lennox Lewis With Emanuel Steward • East Side Boxing • News Archives (https://www.boxing247.com/weblog/archives/139128

I've seen the video of the quote too but I couldn't put my hands on it.

Anyway yes Lewis did offer Bowe coming off the Holyfield loss with no belts a title shot for 60-40 split. Compare that to:

"The WBC gave Bowe and Lewis until December 13 to reach an agreement or the fight would go to a purse bid. If Bowe refused to meet Lewis, the WBC title would be awarded to Lewis. Rock Newman, Bowe's manager, made two offers to Lewis. The first would have guaranteed Lewis $3 million, while giving Bowe 90% of the purse and Lewis 10%. The second offer was for Lewis to refuse the WBC title, have an interim fight in the United States for $2.5 million, and then fight Bowe for $9 million or a percentage to be negotiated. Frank Maloney, the manager of Lewis, rejected both offers and countered with his own proposal: a 75-25 percent split of the purse. Newman turned it down. Maloney later had a change of heart and agreed to the first offer, but Newman told him he was too late. Newman said a deal for Bowe to defend the title against an opponent other than Lewis was imminent.

As for knocking Lewis for his efforts against Bruno, Mercer, McCall and Rahman. Well Lennox took on all comers, while Bowe took on dross Holyfield aside.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 15:20 Lewis of course ditched the WBA belt wanting a gimme vs Michael Grant rather than defend against his old sparring partner John Ruiz who he knew was handy; he ditched his IBF belt rather than fight slippery Byrd preferring to a Tyson rematch where he could further desecrate Iron Mike's corpse.

Lennox is always excused for dumping his belts and permitted all the context in the world; Bowe is blamed for dumping his belt and is afforded no context whatsoever.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑13 Jan 2024, 15:20 Lewis of course ditched the WBA belt wanting a gimme vs Michael Grant rather than defend against his old sparring partner John Ruiz who he knew was handy;