Classic American West Coast Boxing

[BoxBuzz]

Famous

The launching pad for Mexican fighters emigrating from the southern states of the republic to make a name for themselves so they could eventually show their stuff in the big venues in the U.S. was to hone their skills at the boxing gym at the CREA athletic complex in Tijuana.In short the gym has always been known as the CREA.What you saw of the best Mexican fighters going at it at the Olympic Auditorium,The Fabulous Forum,and Caesar's Palace,you can bet worked up a sweat at the CREA. When Julio Caesar Chavez wanted to step up in class,he and his manager left Sinaloa to train with the cream of the crop at the CREA.If you could hang with the boys at the CREA you passed muster.

The gym usually opened its doors around 3 in the afternoon. If you were a novice who wanted to impress and didn't have enough pesos,you could bring a mop or a broom or a little Pine Sol to add to the custodial inventories. If you were a Napoles,a Saldivar,a Chavez,or an Olivares you were considered royalty.People paid to see their art.

One guy I remember who slugged it out at the CREA, who added to that aura of a Mexican counterpart of the Philly gym, was tough veteran Octavio "Famoso" Gomez. He was in the mix with the plethora of Mexican bantams whose signature punch was the "gancho" to the liver.That big left hook that came up from somewhere near Chiapas and was sunk deep into the right side somewhere between Michoacán and Jalisco.

"Famoso" was from "Mexico" or how Mexicans often referred to their capitol. He was bread and "mantequilla" at the numerous venues in TJ. He laced them up mostly at the municipal auditorium,but I saw him fight at the old downtown bullring,the Arena 72,and the race track. He wasn't shy about fighting the best and he brought out the best of his opponents and himself. He beat Little Red,Art Hafey,and Raul Herrera.He also lost to those fellas.He went to Brazil and gave the great Eder Jofre a scare losing a close decidion. I saw the tape of that fight on Mexican TV. "Famoso"countered and traded with everything Jofre had to offer.Holding his gloves by his sides he brought his punches together with rhythmic propulsion. It was one of those fights where the crowd went nuts every time Jofre would breathe on him. I actually thought Gomez landed more shots,but every "golpe" he landed was on the fans pay no mind list.A late round knockdown scored by the Brazilian was breather enough to make the judges comfortable with their score cards.

I caught Gomez between sparring sessions one afternoon at the CREA and asked him about the Jofre fight.
"Jofre is a great champion,"responded "Famoso.""The fight was close. I gave it my best.The knockdown probably won it for him. It was a good fight."
With humility like that is how he likely got his nickname.



"Famoso" Gomez

Rog, I was fortunate to have seen Famoso fight a couple of times and what I remember most about him was speed. I saw him stop Cesar Deciga - who was a very underrated fighter - and I saw him get stopped by Rodolfo Martinez. However, I should mention, I had Famoso leading at the time of the stoppage which was in the 7th round I believe. At the time Martinez was a real monster, so that was no mean feat. Famoso was one damn good fighter. Wasn't he a comedian or a magician when he wasn't slinging leather?

Dan,Famoso had some parts in some Mexican movies and tried his hand at singing. There were some fighters in Mexico(like there were some American fighters)that, after retiring from the ring,made a second career on the screen.

I can't tell you how long I've waited for some more info on this guy. Watched him up close pull an amazing upset over Danny Lopez and have often wondered about his story from that day forward. Now he didn't fare well in his next go round, but for that moment, he was the man of the hour. Was that his best performance? Just curious. So glad to have some of my questions answered here. Been about a 40 year weight. lol. When I watched him that night, I felt he had it all, power, speed, ring generalship, mental strength. When I saw the tv replay, I heard danny tell his trainer "this guys strong". Danny saying these words should mean a lot to anyone hearing them. This guy had potential.....if he would have been in the U.S. with a bit of money, and some expert matchmaking, I'm thinking he might have been considered one of the elite. Good nights with Danny and Jofre are not happenstance. The guy had the talent.

[scartissue]

Buzz, another thing about Gomez that should not go unmentioned was that throughout his lengthy career he was rated in the top ten at Fly, Bantam and Feather as he grew through the divisions with obvious success along the way to attain those ratings. i think he broke in at 112 by beating Euro champ Fernando Atzori who may have been undefeated (can't bother to look it up as I'm writing this). Then when he went up to 118 he broke into those ratings with some outstanding wins over Valentin Galeano (who had decked Olivares in a non-title), Bernabe Villacampo, Cesar Deciga and Fernando Cabanela. And of course when he hit 126 some outstanding wins over Rafael herrera, Art Hafey and Danny Lopez got him in the top ten at Feather. An absolute shame being in the top ten at three weights and couldn't get a title shot. His closest opportunity probably would have been fighting Martinez for the NABF crown. There was a lot of talent around at that time, but he was far more deserving when you think about it than Romeo Anaya (whom Gomez stopped in 9 rounds).

[dagosd2000]

Not Quite So Total Recall

I can't remember if the fight was on the television or not. Maybe it was a cable pay per view show.All I know is I didn't see it live. It was that big go between the two undefeated Mexican bantamweights, Alfonso Zamora and Carlos Zarate.

There was a lot of predictions ,especially in Mexico,about that fight.Baja California was pretty divided on that one.Those two fellas' came up just after the Olivares era of great Mexican bantamweights.Both boys were undefeated and held a belt,but more importantly, for the aficianados, they packed dynamite in their fists.No way this one was lasting the limit.

It's not unusual to see a Mexican fighter run up a long string of KO's.Both these boys had a long list of KO's on their records.Many times those stoppages were against some kid in a little town who's only had a few fights.It's a mismatch for sure,but it's pretty common in Mexico. I guess that's where Greg Haugen was coming from when he said daddy Chavez had built his rep on "Tijuana cab drivers."Can't sell Greg short on guts and stupidity.So 120,000 thousand Mexicans filled to the brim Azteca Stadium in Mexico to watch Greg get punched around like maybe an American hack.

So I'm in TJ stewing over the fact that I'm not going to see which guy will get the bigger capital "Z" after their name. I figured I'd ease my suffering by staggering inside as many watering holes in Tijuana as long as my money lasted or didn't get my pocket picked by one of those gals who could "dip" with any of the best of them in a Naples train station.Maybe some bartender would have the scoop on what was transpiring at the Forum and keep me informed.

I think it was the Burro Bar in the Coahuila where I got some insight on the progress of the fight. I bellied up to the bar and asked for my usual...a shot of Hornitos with a side of water. In my day I could go all day long drinking that stuff.But it was the water"back" that kept me from getting sick.Never mixed hard stuff with anything like soda pop.

Anyways I ask the "cantinero" if he has any dope on the fight.
"Zamora won the first round.Had Zarate down,"he says.
That caught me a little by surprise. I thought Carlos was the better man,but if that's the way the opening frame went it was OK with me.Funny though.I didn't hear any radio going on and I don't think the fight was being broadcast on the small box,but by that time I was feeling no pain,and didn't care one way or the other. Zarate and Zamora could have both clipped me on my chin at the same time and I don't think I would have felt anything at least until the next morning.

I don't remember much after the Burro bar. I still had money in my wallet.Somehow I found the border and got home.The next morning I bought the paper and read where Zamora lost. It was pretty one sided so went the reporting.Alfonso didn't knock Zarate down in the first round or any of the rounds.Later, watching the replay, some guy had jumped into the ring in the first round. Maybe that's what the bartender was referring too.But perhaps all the tequila that day clouded my memory of the event. I guess you could say I was lucky that that I didn't get my pocket picked.


Alfonso Zamora

[Chuck1052]

I saw the non-title bout between Carlos Zarate and Alfonso Zamora while sitting in the cheap seats at the Forum in Inglewood, California. Despite the fact there wasn't a full house, the crowd was a large, boisterous one. I remember that Zarate's knees were buckled and a so-called fan tried to get into the ring early in the bout. Afterwards, Zarate took it to Zamora while throwing straight punches and making his opponent miss with his. In addition to having tremendous punching power, Zarate had a big edge in skill and height over Zamora.

In my opinion, Ruben Olivares was a much more versatile fighter than Zarate despite being shorter and often lacking in dedication and conditioning.
I can't imagine a focused and well-conditioned Olivares being taken apart by Wilfredo Gomez like Zarate was. Moreover, Olivares, past his prime at the time, gave Alexis Arguello, a much taller and younger featherweight, fits with his boxing skills until being stopped in the 14th round. Arguello would present a bad matchup for Zarate.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Smoked

"I've got two free tickets for the fights,"I said to Pat.
I caught up with my friend at his bar in Serra Mesa.He was sitting at his desk in his office going over the books.I didn't need to knock on the door.
"Who's fighting?"asked Pat.
"I don't know."
"How did you get your hands on them?"
"The promoter's son was at the card game the other night and offered them up.I was the only one interested."
"So where are they at?"asked Pat.
"At one of the Indian reservations.I think Pechanga."
"Where's that?"
"It's pretty far out there.I've never been there,but it shouldn't be hard to find."
"OK,"said Pat."Count me in."

I Googled" Pechanga" on my computer to find out how to get there.Like all those Indian reservations it was in the foothills in East county. About a 40 minute drive from the city.While we were winding around those rural two lane roads me and Pat began to talk boxing.
"I sure miss the weekly cards they had at the old Coliseum downtown,"remarked Pat.
"They had some good fights,"I said.
"Now you have to drive out to the country to see the fights."
"Sometimes there's a show at the 4 Points or at Del Mar,but it's only once in awhile."
"And most of those fights are six and eight rounders for the main event."
"It's probably the same thing tonight,"I said.
"If they're giving away free tickets it can't be much of a show."
"Hell,"I said."It's comped and gives an excuse to get out of the house."

The county road twisted around the hills.We passed some small fenced houses.I didn't see any lights on inside any of the houses.
"It's kind of pretty out here,"I said.
"I thought once of living out in the country,"said Pat.
"Remember Sid Flaherty's training camp out here?"
"That was farther to the south."
"Denny Moyer trained out there,"I said.
"That was when he got motivated."
"I remember seeing Joe Frazier at Sid's."
"I was there.He didn't work out. He just dropped by to see Sid and Danny."
"That was when he came out here to fight Scrap Iron Johnson."
"That was it,"said Pat."Wasn't that fight at the Olympic?"
"I went up there to see it,Figured it was one of the few chances I'd get to see Joe Frazier."
"He didn't fight any of his big fights out west."
"Heavyweights didn't interest the Mexicans that much."
"What if Ramos would have beat Quarry?"
"Yeah,"I said."That would have been interesting."
I saw a lit sign that said the casino was 5 miles away.
"We're almost there,"I said.
"Even Quarry wasn't a big draw out here."
"They don't have heavyweights around anymore like Frazier,"I said."Guys like Frazier and Ali were legends in their own time.They were royalty."
"How about Foreman?"
"How about Norton?"
"Maybe not royalty,but he gave Ali trouble."
"Frazier I thought was unbeatable.Then when Foreman beat him I thought he'd go undefeated."
"If they hadn't have yanked Ali's license he'd have gone undefeated,"said Pat confidently.
"It's hard not to lose,"I said.

We arrived at the reservation and found our seats in the bleachers.The crowd was small and by the time we got there I was losing interest with the night's proceedings. I scanned the program and didn't recognize any names. The fights weren't that exciting. A lot of crude boys who didn't lack enthusiasm,but because of needing to develop their skills their efforts were mostly ineffective.By the time the main event came around I was ready to call it a night. Then something caught my attention to arouse my attention. Prior to announcing the contestants for the main event the tuxedo holding the mike proclaimed that there was a special guest in the crowd.
"Fight fans tonight we have with us and have the honor to be graced with the former World Heavyweight Champion,'Smokin' Joe Frazier!"
Everyone began searching the arena.Then a spotlight shone at the aisle from the dressing room,and there being held by each arm by security guards was Joe Frazier.He was struggling to stand up and if it hadn't been for the guards I don't think he would have made it to ringside. There was no way he could have got up into the ring to take a bow.Joe was waving and smiling to the crowd.He was wearing dark glasses.Everyone stood up cheering.Then security found Joe his seat.He fell into it almost sliding to the floor.The crowds' enthusiasm turned to laughter,then they caught themselves and quieted down.
"Look,"said Pat."Frazier's drunk.He can't walk by himself."
"Seems that way,"I said.
"It's embarrassing.I don't like to see a great champion like him wind up like that."
"They say he's having some trouble."
"But a great fighter like Joe Frazier. To see him that way. It's hard to watch."
"Well,"I said."Don't watch it."



Joe Frazier in his later years

[dagosd2000]

On The Outside Looking In

"We got an email about the California Boxing Hall Of Fame ceremony this Saturday.Are you going?asked Ed the bartender as he counted his cash drawer.
"It crossed my mind,but I'm not going,"I said.
"You used to attend those things,"said Ed as he put a glass of beer on a coaster in front of me interrupting his counting .
"I'd go if I knew one of the inductees.Besides, Rick Farris stays away from the event.He and Don Fraser don't see eye to eye so I wouldn't go."
"So you're not going?"
"No.Are you?"
"I've never gone.The email was sent to Burke."
Champs Lounge had that morning smell of stale beer.I've always thought that was a tell tale of what last night's revelries were really all about.I'm glad those days are over for me.
"Saturday I'm going up to Orange County,"I said."One of my old football buddies passed away last week. They're having a testimonial for him."
"You guys were pretty close."
"I'll be at home there.We all played together.It's a brotherhood.We've always stayed in touch.We go back a long ways"
"There's a lot of the fighters that still get together in LA,"said Ed.
"They sure do,"I said. "It's good to see that,but I was never a fighter.I can never feel like a real part of them.."
"Fighters are different from the rest of the jocks,"said Ed.
"I agree.I've never felt awed by football players or baseball players,but fighters are a different breed of cat."
"You never know what can happen when you enter the ring."
"I used to spar once in awhile with some of the boys,but that don't qualify me in their league."
"I thought you had a fight under your belt,"said Ed.
"It was one of those sub rosa fights at the Club 21 in National City. It was supposed to be an amateur go but I never signed in with no commission. Hell, we didn't even wear headgears."
"It's better that you go up to Orange County with your old teammates."
Ed was finished counting his cash drawer.
"You know Ed,fighters are the nicest guys of all the athletes."
"You used to have a good time at those boxing events.You and Maria."
"I did.And she did too. Gaspar Ortega,Gato Gonzalez,Armando Muniz,Carlos Palomino,Danny Lopez.Real nice guys.Never bragging or showing off. Very approachable. Nice to everyone.Sometimes people who go, who were never fighters, make a pest of themselves,but that's I think because deep down inside they wish they could have been fighters.They mean no harm and the fighters understand."
"Yeah,"said Ed."A lot of guys like to rub elbows with fighters."
I finished my beer and slid my money next to the empty glass.
"Well I'l be leaving Saturday morning.I'll see you when I get back,"I said.
"Too bad you aren't going to the boxing show in Los Angeles on Saturday,"said Ed.
"Oh you can be sure that I'll be thinking of those guys ."



Carlos Palomino

[dagosd2000]

Unmentioned Agreement

You've probably seen it.It happens in boxing a lot.Any sport that involves physical contact with an opponent,but it's very apparent in a boxing match,You get boys in there where you figure it'll be a close contest,but very early,usually within the first couple of rounds,the fighters make an unmentioned agreement.This bargain sometimes happens in the first clinch.Or maybe when the first important blow is landed.I've seen it a lot.The "Beta" fighter that night will defer to his opponent.I'm not talking about him doing a" Bruce Seldon" flop because of the fear .I'm talking about letting the other guy know early on that"I don't want to win.I'm overwhelmed".He's not going to push it and his opponent senses right away.The "Alpha" dude that night knows he's got a lock on it because his shots are not being returned with anything resembling a lethal counter.The timid one is not going to press it.He doesn't want to put his opponent in high gear because if he does then he puts himself in a position to get hurt.He's in over his head.So the "stronger" of this Darwin scenario drops it down a gear.He knows he's got it in the bag.He'll let it go the distance.Maybe that is not what Charles Darwin had in mind.

But it's the paying customer who winds up disappointed.Instead of witnessing a war where there's the drama of violent waves churning,they settle for an encounter that resembles a sparring match.A good workout. The anticipated perfect storm becomes a flush down the toilet. At the end, the scoring is unanimous.It's a shutout.

It's frustrating and disappointing to see during the encounter the forgone loser touch gloves with the future victor before each round.Or give him the "atta boy" tap on the butt after the bell rings after each frame.Or how about when he gets knocked on his rear and gets up nodding his head acknowledging the the stronger one's accomplishment."Yeah.You knocked me on my ass alright."Instead of this setback igniting fury and a call for revenge, the familiarity with canvas just validates his timidity.

After the lights go out, the fans ask themselves what happened? Did the guy get hurt in the ring?Or maybe he suffered an injury in training.Maybe the fix was in. The loser has to deal with his effort for the rest of his life.He'll think about it everyday.When asked by someone he'll have an excuse.Like the agreement he made with himself before the opening bell,he'll never mention the real reason to anyone.

[dagosd2000]

Mando Muniz getting a kick out of one of my paintings




The uncrowned champ,Armando Muniz

[dagosd2000]

The Face Of Time

When he was starting out they called him the fighter with the "baby face." By the time he finished up his career in San Diego you couldn't say that about his face anymore,or any other part of his body. He had fought 'em all in all parts of the world.He gave no quarter and if they had to come up with a name to typify the fighter's fighter,the name" Denny Moyer" would suit just fine.

His family history was full of fighters.His older brother Phil and Denny started out in their neck of the woods in Portland,Oregon.Brought along by Sid Flaherty and Danny Rodriguez,Denny Moyer rose fast up through the ranks. Maybe it was a little early to match him up with Don Jordan for the welter weight title( only having 20 pro fights under behind him),but it was a pretty much close affair with Jordan still wearing his belt after 15 brisk rounds.

It was a time when the 147 division was deep with quality fighters.Moyer knew who Paret,Ortega,Rodriguez,Charley Scott,Jorge Fernandez,and of course,Emile Griffith were like inside the ring.Moyer would put on a few pounds and fight a Tony Dupas or a Joey Giambra.And then there was that fighter named Robinson.Moyer won some of those"junior" and "super" titles when those crowns were on the pay no mind list for most of the fans.But Flaherty had him in there fighting all the time.Maybe too much, especially at the end.But he did that with another one of his charges in San Diego,Ronnie Wilson too.

Flaherty brought Moyer down to keep Wilson in check.Kind of take him under his wing,but all that did was exasperate a problem.Burning the candle at both ends does a fighter no good.A fighter at the end of the line has a hard enough time trying to find the gym.He figures he can get by with what he's learned over time.That's the way it was with Denny Moyer.He said if he ever needed to get a little scratch to make ends meet ,he'd go up to Las Vegas and give them a show at the Silver Slipper.

Though his base of operations was San Diego,Moyer didn't fight much at the Coliseum.San Diego was a rung in the ladder for the prospect trying to climb up to the first division or the old pug that was stumbling into Palookaville. I think Moyer had a couple of fights at the Coliseum. I remember him fighting a young Columbian named Vicente Medina,By that time Moyer's cuts were opening up all over the place and his his reflexes weren't responding when he wanted them to. He was a cutey in the ring at one time,but by now that "baby face" moniker was a thing of the past.

I saw him work out at Flaherty's camp up in the foothills of San Diego and at the Coliseum.Towards the end he got a shot at Monzon's title,but he he had to fly over to Rome to fight him.Europe was like Carlos's home away from home.He told me they stopped the fight too soon.He also told me that Monzon had his "own" scale where he weighed in.I saw that fight on Youtube the other day.It gave me the desire to write this piece.It was dead even going into the 5th round.In the 5th there's an exchange.Moyer's knees buckle,but he comes back fighting,but the ref steps in to give Moyer a standing eight count.He puts them together again.Another exchange ,and the local ref waves it off.A TKO for Carlos.

I'm not trying to imply that Moyer would have won that fight.The days of him training for 15 were long ago past him. He's gone now.The dementia finally got him. His wife was by his bedside when he left us.I'm a little sore right now thinking about it.It would have been nice to see Denny Moyer wind up with a lot more than he got at the end.





Denny Moyer

[dagosd2000]

One For My Baby

Most of the time I'd go to the fights because I didn't have anything to do.I knew if I was bored that going to the fights would erase any melancholy.Most of the time I'd go alone.Sometimes I'd gather some friends who would only go if I led the way.I think they were a little apprehensive about going to a prize fight.The unknown told them there was an element of danger going to a smoky loud arena to watch men punch each other.Football games were in vogue.No problem there.But boxing matches?That was something seedy and dangerous.So much in trying to stir up interest with these guys.So most of the time I'd solo.

The fights in Tijuana were especially hard to elicit any interest with some of my pals.Oh,I can tell you about a few times they got in the mood to go down there,but trying to convince them was like pulling teeth.Besides,I liked going by myself.I remember the night I went to the Auditorium on the Boulevard and saw a real curiosity piece,the legendary" Baby" Vasquez.Now his name wasn't thrown around the Wide World of Sports.In fact he never fought on American TV.If you were a fight fan from back East his name wouldn't register.But in Mexico ,Bernabe "Baby" Vasquez a fighter that was as well known as a "Mantequilla" Napoles or a Ruben Olivares.

"Baby" Vasquez was one of those guys who could make a fighter ,any fighter regardless of his talent,look bad.Lets just say he was real slippery.Now he wasn't the defensive type like a Floyd Mayweather Jr. or a Roy Jones(also the Jr.)who possessed the cat like reflexes.He didn't have the sting his punches.He wasn't a work of art to look at as he moved around the ring.He wasn't the "classic" fighter.He wasn't Willie Pep.He just was hard to hit.He saw everything in front of him and he'd drive the other guy crazy.He'd slip and parry punches.Clinch up a bullrush.,then before letting go tap his opponent with a rap behind the noggin or a slip a hook to the side. I remember he had two bouts with Jose Napoles.There was a fighter who could outsmart even the a person like the great Emile Griffith,but after having to deal with Vasquez back to back,he never fought him again.Two decisions were good enough for "Mantequilla".Finally he fought a guy who was more buttered up than he was.

When I saw "Baby" Vasquez fight that night it was more of his standard antics.I can't remember his opponent's name,but he looked like he was trying to swat flies out of the air wearing boxing gloves.Don't get me wrong."Baby" Vasquez knew his limitations.The aficianadoa did too.He was never going to be champ.He was there to knock off the aspiring prospect from getting to the throne."Baby" Vasquez was the perfect upsetter. But he wasn't a runner.The crowds never booed him for not making a fight.There was plenty of action when he was in there.Who knows how many fights he had?He probably lost count years before he finally hung them up.Every arena in Mexico had him for a fight or two.But I can say I saw "Baby" Vasquez.And this is how I think of him.He's metaphor for Mexico,the country south of the border from the mighty United States.No matter how much more we are possessed with,Mexico will always survive.Maybe when doomsday finally arrives and takes us down regardless of all our power and affluence,Mexico will crawl out of the ashes,like the cucaracha,smiling like a "Baby" Vasquez,and say"Wat hoppen' mon?You couldn't hit me."



"Baby" Vasquez

[dagosd2000]

A Lot To Think About

When I dropped by to say hello to Jose Napoles in Ciudad Juarez last year,I asked him if he still kept in contact with Sugar Ramos. Napoles, who was savoring a Cuban puro sitting on a chair in front of his house, answered,"Oh yes I call him all the time.He lives in Mexico City."
When I asked how he was doing,the old welterweight champ smiled and said,"Yes,he is very happy."
I'll take Jose for his word on that.Jose seemed very happy.In fact I think he saw the whole world as being very happy.

I remember seeing Ramos near the end of his career fight a "clean"Mando Ramos in a lightweight battle at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles.It was as good a ten rounder that I ever saw.Fast paced,both boys exchanging shots with precision, showcasing their expertise of assorted skills.Mando won a split decision that night and I thought it was a fair call.

Ramos had moved up a weight from featherweight to lightweight.His upper body as a featherweight was awesome compared to his peers.At lightweight,he blended in more in size and his power was equalized.Carlos Ortiz looked the bigger man when they had their two encounters.

I always felt bad for Ramos.Two fighters had died after fighting him in the ring.Everyone knows about the Davey Moore fight.Moore's head caroming off the bottom ring rope was what really killed him. Earlier in Ramos's career another fighter met a tragic finish. It's a rarity for a man to die from the results of punishment immediately after a fight.Usually the consequences of the accumulation all the bows in all the fights finally gets the ex pug years after he hangs up his gloves.But for two men to die from one fighter?I know Bud Taylor had that happen.Sugar Ramos is the other fighter I know of.

Ramos didn't reach the adoration of his fellow countryman,Jose Napoles,in Mexico.When he lost his showdown and his title to the great Mexican national,Vicente Saldivar,a lot of the hysteria died down.Moving up in weight made him seem more mortal also,but I know Ramos never forgot the two tragic fights where the fellow warriors lost their lives.Every time I saw Ramos in public he was a gentleman.I saw him interviewed on Mexican television and he always showed respect for his opponent.He packed a big punch,but was never a "killer"a la Robert Duran. He never boasted a macho tough guy image.

Just when I was to bring up a new subject with Mantequilla Napoles after mentioning Sugar Ramos,his face lost that grin.He looked at me like he wanted to get a point across.He peered through those tom cat like eyes and said.He had a problem,"And then tapped his forefinger to his head.He then began toking on his puro and the smile returned

I didn't ask what.I got the message.Besides, Jose thought all the world was a Neverland.



Sugar Ramos

[scartissue]

Rog, those last three posts on Denny Moyer, Baby Vasquez and Sugar Ramos have me shaking my head at the talent level those three saw and who they engaged. No such thing as avoiding the top dog or growing despondent over a single loss. How times have changed.

[dagosd2000]

Rog, those last three posts on Denny Moyer, Baby Vasquez and Sugar Ramos have me shaking my head at the talent level those three saw and who they engaged. No such thing as avoiding the top dog or growing despondent over a single loss. How times have changed.

Right you are Dan.When they ask a fighter in the ring after combat about who he wants to fight next,he usually says"Whoever my manager lines up for me."That means,especially if that fighter is a champ,that the promoter is involved.When there was only one belt,it was a lot less complicated.Now promoters want to protect their fighters.Losing a belt means losing money. Fighters will get "psyched" about a loss,but back in the day they went on fighting everybody until they hung up their gloves.

Pacquiao and Mayweather should have fought each other ten years ago and could of had a trilogy of fights when they were both in their primes.Dan,old pal,the sport is in trouble for a variety of reasons.This inability to make important fights is just one of the problems.

BTW,I'll be taking Maria to Cabo San Lucas for a week.Hope to bring back a story and maybe some fish. Take care.

[gjoseph]

Armando Muniz is a former teammate of me Gary Ferrari In The U.S.S.R. Great Fighter Great Man

[dagosd2000]

Armando Muniz is a former teammate of me Gary Ferrari In The U.S.S.R. Great Fighter Great Man

Got that right.Everyone on the thread who knows Mando will attest to that.

[dagosd2000]

Dan after commenting on your last post I was thinking about what you said about how a fighter can get demoralized after a big loss. I remember two very hot Mexican fighters way back in the 50's and 60's,Ricardo"Pajarito" Moreno(featherweight) and Raymundo "Battling " Torres(lightweight).These two boys had dynamite in their fists,They ran a big string of KO's and it was almost a lead pipe cinch no one could withstand their fury.Moreno got a shot at the title with Hogan "Kid" Bassey at Wrigley Field in Los Angeles.The Mexican community was sure they'd have Moreno wearing the crown.But Moreno was totally outclassed.I saw the fight on Mexican TV.He looked like a novice.I believed he was stopped in three rounds. Torres had a similar m.o. like Moreno ,but when he lost to Carlos Ortiz in the Coliseum in LA. in a very one sided fight, he could not get back on track again.Both Moreno and Torres had up and down careers after those big losses.

Moreno and Torres were big hitters,but defensively they lacked the knowledge of how to defend themselves.They thought if they slugged you a few times you'd fold.That lack of complete boxing skills could be attributed because the quality of Mexican trainers was not what it is today.Then it was the big left hook to the liver. I remember when Jose Napoles and Sugar Ramos migrated to Mexico from Cuba.They may have had the smartest trainer around,Kid Rapidez.Napoles and Ramos had the total package.

Today,Mexican fighters like the Marquez brothers,Marco Antonio Barrera,Erik Morales,Julio Cesar Chavez,Salvador Sanchez,and Ricardo Lopez could have put on clinics anywhere.Granted a lot of those fellas' turned their careers over to guys like Emmanuel Steward,but trainers that have the expertise like Nacho Beristain are beginning to emerge south of the border.



Julio Cesar Chavez

[dagosd2000]

The Deleted Saint

Cabo San Lucas used to be a little sleepy village that had a fish cannery and was a "secret" spot for the best sport fishing in the world.The secrets are gone now,the cannery closed many years ago,but the fishing is still great,if you can afford it. The big hotels that have sprung up in the last 15 years are "all inclusive."They want you doing all your business inside the premises.Most of the tourists that stay in these mega complexes are too timid to explore anything outside the door by themselves .It's kind of like a concrete cruise ship stuck in the ground.But that's the way they want it, and these establishments know how to accommodate their trepidations.You keep a tab and by check out time you've dropped a bundle,but that's part of the experience.Instead of the French Riviera,it's Cabo San Lucas.It's not a king's ransom,but you can still pretend you're royalty.

I've been to Cabo San Lucas many times.Each visit I see the expansion,the rising prices,the widening separation between the" haves' and the people who don't have much.Those people are the Mexicans who work at these resorts,enter through the back,and are overly nice.They treat the Americans with lavish servitude.The Americans feel entitled.Though the communication between the two factions is constant(ordering and obeying),the symbiosis is a million miles away.No American tries to speak Spanish and they expect the Mexicans to obey their every want.Every employee has to speak English or they don't get the job. The self absorbed expect to be waited on fast and furiously.The customer ,they know,is always right.

I booked one of these joints for me and the wife,but I knew what I was doing.It's like Las Vegas.They give you a great price on the room and then expect you to empty the rest of your wallet inside the hotel,or if you want to do something outside the door they want you to book it with them.They show you how you can "save"money going through the hotel.

I went fishing,but I went down to the docks where the little skiffs are and asked the owner of one of the boats if he'd take me fishing. For 60 bucks me and him went out for 4 hours and I caught three dorado and a couple of rooster fish.He was happy.I was happy.We talked about everything from what it's like in Mexico,what it's like in the U.S.,about our families,and yes...boxing.The old guy was a boxing fan.Name me an old Mexican guy who ain't an aficionado.

I told him that I visited "Mantequilla" Mexico in Ciudad Juarez last year.
""Mantequilla" Napoles was beautiful to see in ther ring,"he said as the small boat drifted with the current."I saw him fight Alfredo Urbina when he beat him.The first time Urbina win.He hit Napoles in the body.He not like that.The second time Napoles finished him quick."
" 'Mantequilla' siempre fue mi favorito",I said.
"The president Ordaz make him a Mexican citizen.At that time only the president can do that."
After he said that I got a strike and hooked into a dorado. I got up,grabbed the rod,and set the hook. My sea legs weren't that steady,but I settled down to reel the fish in.The dorado flapped up out of the water trying to spit out the hook.The sunlight sparkled off his golden colors.After a few minutes of playing him,making sure he didn't go under that boat, I had him alongside the skiff. The old man gaffed him aboard.
"That's a nice fish,"said the old man.The old guy took another mackerel out of the tank and hooked it onto my line.I let the line go out some and the boat continued drifting.
"Cuantos anos a pescar?"I asked the old man.
"Muchos.I fish in Alaska and Washington for the Salmon.I fish commercial for the tuna in Samoa.The Japanese have these big boats that fish the tuna.A factory is in the bottom.They clean and can the fish inside the boat."
"That doesn't sound like fun,"I said.
"But it's all about the money."
"Si seguro."
"It's like what has happened here.It's all about the money. The gringos come and we get their money,but only the rich Mexicans profit.The Spanish too. They have much property here."
"And the gringos?"
"Of course.The gringos have the most."
We kept drifting and slowly rolling with the current, listening to the low gurgling sound of the outboard motor. I caught a few more fish.It was time to go in.
"Why do people call this place 'Los Cabos'?,I asked the captain."I always knew it as Cabo San Lucas."
" 'Los Cabos' is easier to say.Besides it sounds more romantic."
"Kind of dreamy,"I said."like you're living a dream."
"As long as your dreams are happy ones,"said the old man.

[scartissue]

Rog, I don't know what it is about your stories, but it's like you're painting a landscape. I had to snap out of it because I thought I was in the boat with you two.

[BoxBuzz]

It really is a pleasure to read such contributions. I am very grateful for this thread as a resource.

[dagosd2000]

Dan,Buzz,

Thank you.

[dagosd2000]

The Best Defense Is A Good Elbow

The old bullring in downtown Tijuana, they would say, was one day going to collapse with everyone inside going down for the count. So they tore it down and built a new bullring out at Playas near the beach. But the old structure was the venue for some pretty memorable fighters...Sugar Ray Robinson,Ruben Olivares,Vicente Saldivar,Ismael Laguna,Sugar Ramos,and "my guy", Mantequilla Naploes. The first time I saw him fight was in that rickety dirt pit.

But there were many others battles, that are now fading with my memory,that are still dreaming around in my mind. One off the top of my head was a fight between the fresh crowned flyweight champ,Venice Borkhorsor,and the steady Mexican trial horse,Julio Guerrero.The fighters tipped the scales at the bantamweight limit.The Thai,Borkhorsor was a growing lad and 118 pounds had become his natural fighting weight.

Before I get into the details of the exchange I want to make quick comment about Thailand names. Now if your from Thailand it's a no brainer to have a last name with more than ten or fifteen letters,and have that name roll off the tip of your tongue .(BTW,Borkhorsor's alias was Prawet Ponchiengkwang.I had to look that up) For me just to see one of those Thailand names poses an insurmountable challenge to my oral gymnastics.But perhaps I need to work on that.I'm retired now so I've got the time,NOT.

I'd never seen Borkhorsor fight before that night. Julio,I knew.He was your standard left hook to the liver Mexican bantam that brought it home with that swing. Like many similar fighters from south of the border, that was the main punch in the arsenal. It was an era when most Mexican fighters weren't that polished when it came to a repertoire of offensive weapons. No one ,and I mean no one ,likes to get hit in the belly,not to mention the liver. I've seen guys that have a rock chin,but never a cement stomach.

The Thai had an impressive record,but I figured Guerrero,especially fighting in that iconic arena with his" aficianados" rooting him on,would send everybody to the cantinas after it was over" toasting" their carnal into the wee hours of the morning. The" gancho" to the" higado" was all Julio would need to make Borkhorsor throw up his rice. But at the finish it was Guerrero who needed an" aspirina" for his headache.

When the fighters were brought together at mid ring,I noticed Borkhorsor being very defined.His short cropped hair reminded me of a military soldier.Julio had that Indian body softness that didn't mean he was out of shape,but only that it was genetic thing that's particular to many of the race.

The bells rang for the opening frame and Guerrero moved forward,the only direction he knew,bending the left side of his body.There were no secrets about what was coming.Borkhorsor , the southpaw on the other hand,stood up erect, right glove solid against chin with his arm dropping straight down with his elbow protecting his right side. Guerrero loaded up with the hook. it bounced off Borkhorsor's elbow like a ping pong ball. Julio tried again.There was the Thai's elbow covering up his liver.He didn't budge.Julio went upstairs with left.There was Borkhorsor's glove to absorb the punch. It went on like that for six rounds. Julio,I guess didn't have much left to display.His right hand,you could see coming from Sea World. His jab was nothing much,so it was the left hook or nothing.

But just because Guerrero was getting nowhere,Borkorsor had to return something.He was in great shape for starters.He had a big left swing of his own.It was a counter club like punch that landed very heavily. Everytime Julio threw the hook,Borkhorsor would counter with his left,but he was hitting Julio where it hurt. Into the sixth round Guerrero was spent. Part of it was frustration,along with Borkorsor's left hand. He was winning every round up to that point.

After that fight, he was put in there with a very good Rafael Herrera,the bantam champ, at the LA. Forum. Now the "aficianados" would get their revenge against the Oriental. Back then it was a great rivalry between Mexican and Asian fighters. Herrera had knocked out Olivares.He was a big step above Julio Guerrero.But surprise ,surprise, Borkhorsor was in great condition and stood in there with Herrera. Rafael maybe thought that the Thai was in over his head. At the end of fifteen it was Herrera's head and face that looked like home plate after a 22 to 20 ballgame. Herrera fought mostly in flurries.He was the more tired. Borkorsor put up a valiant showing.He raised his arms at the final bell. But to no one's surprise really,he went back to Thailand with no bantam belt, losing a split decision. Later, when Rodolfo Martinez won Herrera's title(Borkhorsor took a lot out of him),Borkhorsor got another shot.It was in his back yard in Bangkok,but two of the three judges had names like Edson and Guerra.The third judge, with the 18 long letter name,was the only one who saw it Borkhorsor's way.

But I'll always remember that night in the downtown bullring in Tijuana.I'm sure Julio Gurrero remembers that elbow.



Venice Borkhorsor

[scartissue]

Rog, you were at the Borkorsor-Guerrero fight???? Wow! Borkorsor became a real enigma for me back in the day after the Herrera fight, but I think he did his best work before and during the Herrera bout. I think both he and Rafael left a little something of themselves in the Forum that night. Neither was quite the same although still possesing a bit in the tanks. Venice held some outstanding wins at fly, specifically wins over Cabanela (whom I saw outpoint Halimi Gutierrez), a brutal stoppage of Betulio Gonzalez (a man who was rarely stopped) and a whitewash of Erbito Sallavarria over 15 rounds. He was built like a tank - don't know how he made 112 - and when he went 118 I really thought he was going to have a long reign. That Guerrero fight was part of a missing puzzle. Guerrerro was the former #1 contender but I never really knew his style. You clarified it. Like many - as you said - fighters from south of the border carrying a mean left hook. I read a piece on his fight against Rogelio Lara in Boxing Illustrated I think that told how brutal that fight was. Getting back to Borkorsor, IMO really an underrated flyweight. I believe he would have taken Masao Ohba in a unification at 112. i also believe he is right there with jesus pimental and Joe Medel as one of the great 118 pound contenders that just never caught that brass ring.

[dagosd2000]

The Parrot Sings

The "Perico" was located across the street from my future brother in law's place,"Ruben's Bar."I have to say that I never went in "Ruben's" much.Both bars were just off Revolution Street on 6th street. The "Perico" had that clean cement floor with the big old Wurlitzer just inside the door next to the bar.It was a short bar with about a half dozen stools depending if you moved them around .Three booths were opposite the bar. A small black and white television was up on the wall in the corner behind the bar. No pictures on the walls,just a picture of Tony,the" cantinero" singing with the mariachis.

On Sundays,when I'd go down to Tijuana with the wife and kids ,to visit my mother in law,I'd sneak off downtown to roam around to satisfy my interests.On Sundays ,just before noon,I'd find my way to the "Perico."I'd sit at the end of the bar,order shot of "Hornitos" with a water back,and watch the show on the television that featured the famous fighters of Mexico,past and present. Tony.wearing his white bar apron,would bring over the tequila and a glass of water,and then turn on the television.
"Roger,you want "hielos" in the water?"asked the friendly little guy with the neatly trimmed thin mustache. Tony had a fine tan skin with a thick crop of black hair combed back.His voice was as smooth as the aged "Hornitos" .
"No.No ice Tony.No es nesecario."

As the TV was warming up,Rosie,the old bar girl walked in at sat down a few stools from me. She put down her big handbag and straightened out her large print dress.She took a mirror out of her purse and put on more red lipstick.After putting on the lipstick,she turned and smiled at me with her gold tooth out in front.
"Hola,Rogelio,como estas?"she said .
"Bien Rosie.Y tu?"
"I am happy,"she replied."Nada mas es importante."

The picture was on the TV.Tony turned the dial to channel 12,TV Azteca. That noon's show profiled the career of the great flyweight champion,Miguel Canto. At the time he was still the champ.He had held the title a long time.
"They are going to show"El Maestro,"exclaimed Tony.
"I've always liked watching him,"I said."Tony.'otro' tequila,por favor."

Miguel Canto was from the southern border state of Yucatan. He didn't fight much in the rest of the Republic.He defended his title a couple of times in the States and wasn't shy about taking on an opponent in his backyard,but most of his work was in Yucatan. The Mexican fight fans nicknamed him "El Maestro",the teacher.
"His style is very beautiful to watch,"I said as Tony filled my shot glass.
"He is the Mexican Willie Pep,"said Tony with a laugh.
"Mi favorito,"said Rosie."He is cute,pero peligroso."
"He even looks like Willie Pep,"I said."Chaparro,wide back,no muy flaco."

I can't remember who he was fighting,but he was in command.The way he moved his feet...quick,side to side.He darted in and out,slipped punches,countered.combinations upstairs and downstairs,the jab,the head movement.He was a textbook on fighting.The Mexicans don't give out nicknames on whims. The only thing the little guy lacked was a punch.Most of his defenses went the distance,but I was gald with that.It was a pleasure to watch him paint his canvas for fifteen rounds.
"Mantequilla was smooth as butter,"I said."But Miguelito was 'El Maestro' ".
"Otro tequila?"
"Si,Tony.Seguro."

Tony filled the shot glass.
"Un trago por Rosie,"I said.
Tony uncapped a bottle of Tecate beer and poured it in a glass for Rosie.
"Gracias,mijo,"she said smiling.
She lifted her glass.
"Por los boxeadores de Mexico,"she exclaimed.
I swigged down my tequila.
"Otro ,Tony,"I said. I could feel the liquor loosening me up.I felt like I belonged here.
"Tony,put on 'El Rey' "I asked.
"If you want."
"You sing it better than Jose Alfredo Jimenez."
"I don't know about that,"he said."But gracias."
"You know Jose Alfredo wrote it for Mantequilla Napoles."
"That's what they say.They were friends. They both enjoyed a good time."
"But you sing it better."
I slid a quarter down the bar to Rosie.She put the coin in the jukebox. The music began.Tony stepped out from the bar.When Jose Alfredo Jimenez's voice came on Tony overwhelmed it. HIs voice projected out to the street.He had the fullest most beautifull voice I had ever heard.He sang like Javier Solis ,but the sound was deeper and richer. After he finished the room was numb.
"Tony,why do you work here? Debes de cantar with the mariachis."
Tony returned behind the bar.
"I sing with them sometimes.But I like it here too."
"You could have been a big star,"I said.
"Perhaps.But then I would have never got to know you my friend," he said smiling.
He then went over to Rosie and took her hand.
"And of course that goes for you too,mija."

https://youtu.be/-fmy10UvbO0

"El Rey",Jose Alfredo Jimenez



Miguel Canto

[Chuck1052]

I saw Miguel Canto beat Orlando Javierto in person at the Los Angeles Memorial Sports Arena. Yes, Canto had a beautiful boxing style.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

The Happy Warrior

Of all the sports, boxing is the toughest. Oh,you might get killed falling off Mt. Everest trying to reach its peak, or get your life snuffed out hitting the wall at Indianapolis Speedway going 200 miles per hour. An unlucky surfer could get buried in a 30 foot wave at Sunset Beach and never see another sunset again. But these are sports of man against nature or a machine.If one fails in these endeavors he can say he wasn't beat by another human being,especially in hand to hand combat.If Evel Kneivel 's parachute hadn't opened over the Snake River he wouldn't have had a bruised ego.If somehow he would have survived, he could always say he succumbed to Mother Nature.But it's unlikely a man could fall off a motorcycle dropping 1000 feet into a river and come out still breathing. And it's just as unlikely that a fighter getting beat fair and square in the ring doesn't feel a bit demasculated by getting whupped by another man.Big George Foreman said all the other sports aspire to reach the summit of professional prizefighting.I think I know what he was talking about. So if you go along with this train of thought,keep reading. If not,take your canoe to the Grand Canyon and shoot the rapids.

There's a lot that goes into becoming a champion fighter.Talent is not always a prerequisite. Most great fighters are over achievers.If Muhammad Ali had never walked into that gym in Louisville when he was a kid after his bike was stolen,I bet I could have kicked his ass later in a street fight. Training to become a fighter,a great fighter, is an unforgiving quest. It's not like watching one of the" Rocky" movies. Hollywood has made a fantasy of the sport like it's made lie of war and love, a pipedream that people buy into.

I've watched a lot of pugs sweat inside the gym.Training camps are a very serious convention. It's not a time to kid oneself into thinking that all you have to do is phone in the work and the job will get done. I remember hearing Ray Leonard say that when he signed to fight Hagler after his layoff, it took him six months before he got his"boxing legs" back. But as serious and intense as it is inside a training camp,there should be(and most often is)a most imoportant ingredient,and that entity is laughter.Yes,a happy training camp helps make successful training camp.

I remember I caught the tail end of one those camps way back when the newly crowned bantamweight champ,Romeo Anaya, was preparing for an over the weight match(122 pounds) against a Korean fighter in the Tijuana Bullring. I spent a couple of weeks watching Anaya wind down his training at the CREA Gym in the Rio section of TJ.There were big crowds everyday to watch the workouts.Though Anaya was paying his dues,the thing that stood out to me was the levity.The guy was always laughing and joking when he wasn't slapping around his sparring partners.One incident I will never forget was one time after a sparring session they put that 190 proof cane alcohol in the water bottle.When one of his men watered him down Anaya gulped the fire water and spewed it back onto the second.Everybody thought that was the greatest and couldn't stop laughing. After Anaya got his wind back ,he enjoyed the laugh with his boys.Laughter is a good way take the pressure off the unforgivingness of exercise. You need that in the trenches.But everyone in camp has to have this attitude.If there's a locker room lawyer,he's tossed out to the street.The head trainer knows when to open and shut the "happy" valve. Getting back to Big George.Dick Saddler.his trainer,would always bring along his piano and play the "happy blues." when Foreman training.Maybe George should have learned to twiddle a few tunes when he was in Zaire.

Anyway,Romeo Anaya and his crew made training for a fight a renaissance experience.But trying to delve into his psyche,I think it was a no brainer.I think he was always looking for that silver lining.Like most fighters who came up from the bottom,and then got to the top,they felt they were blessed.They had something to be happy about.Who would have thought that one day they would be at the summit of the sport all the others aspire to?




Romeo Anaya today,still smiling