Classic American West Coast Boxing

dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

The Beard

The thing,after all these years,that I remember about him was the beard.Clemente Sanchez had a beard,He fell into the category of Mexican fighters, of that time, that had their brief moment in the sun...Romeo Anaya,Chango Carmona,Chucho Castillo to name three off the top of my head.

Sanchez never fought in the United States.Perhaps,if he'd held onto his title longer he would have waged battle in the Olympic Auditorium or the Forum in Los Angeles. In fact the only time he fought outside of Mexico is when he won the title in Japan from Kuniaka Shibata.

I remember going to the Auditorio in Tijuana to watch Vicente Saldivar defend his feather title against the Japanese fighter. The promoters thought it would be a walkover for Saldivar. So instead of using the larger capacity bullring as a venue, the fight took place in the smaller Auditorio.

Saldivar seemed indestructible at the time.Often he'd start slowly,but by the mid rounds he'd keep coming forward and eventually wear his rival down.Shibata brought moderate credentials with him .He was fighting in Mexico. It seemed like a lock for the champion.But I'll never forget that night,and neither will all the aficianados present. Vicente never got it going.In fact he ran out of juice as the the rounds wound down, His reserve strength never was brought forth.HIs tank was dry.The belt changed hands in the 12th.Not to take anything away from Shibata.He was in excellent condition like so many of the other good Asian fighters of that period.

So when Clemente Sanchez was offered a shot at the Japanese's crown, he had to journey across the Pacific. Like Shibata's resume before he fought Saldivar,there wasn't anyone of much significance on the Mexican's victory list. It was de je vu,except it was from the Japanese side of the outlook.

Well in round three Sanchez threw the most perfect right cross of his career onto the chin of the champion.Shibata abetted the outcome by running into the punch. Down he went. The referee counted sayonara over him,and just like that, Clemente Sanchez went home to Mexico a hero.

But fame and fortune was short lived for Clemente.The great Cuban fighter Jose Legra(then residing in Spain since Castro said no mas to pro boxing in Cuba) traveled to Monterrey Mexico,Sanchez's stomping grounds to try to win the" corona". I saw the fight on closed circuit TV in Tijuana. Sanchez was over the featherweight limit at the weigh in. Legra could have made the weight in his street clothes. Sanchez was then stripped of his title before the opening bell sounded. Legra was in top form. He was something beautiful to watch. Reminded me a lot of Luis Rodriguez,his compatriot. Jose was on his toes, moving at different angles,letting his hands go at will.I quit counting after the tenth time Sanchez tasted the canvas.

Sanchez then drifted off into obscurity fighting in tank towns in Mexico like La Paz,Reynosa,and Rio Bravo. He was shot to death at the age of 41 in a traffic beef.

But I'll always remember the beard. It was something different.He looked good wearing it. I can't remember another Mexican fighter with whiskers.They say if a fighter has a good "chin", he has a" tough beard." That night when he put it his title on the line with Jose Legra,my cat could have licked the hair off Clemente's face. :lol:

Image

Clemente Sanchez
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Shoo Fly

"Did you watch the Klitscko/Fury fight the other night?",asked Ed the bartender as he was sweeping the floor behind the bar.
"I caught it on Youtube,"I replied as I leaned over the bar watching Ed sweep up.
"I thought it was a good decision,"said Ed sweeping.
"Fury out worked him."
"The Brits were sure excited."
"It wasn't an exciting fight,but like you say,the Brits are sure happy."
Ed finished sweeping and drew me a glass of beer on tap.
"I read your story on Miguel Canto on the Boxrec.He sure was a slick little guy,"commented Ed.
"Flyweights don't get the recognition they deserve sometimes,"I said.
"They should change the name of that division. Maybe call it the 'hornetweight division' ".Let's face it,a fly isn't very menacing."
"Flyweight doesn't strike the fear of God in anyone."
"You watch flyweights fight and sometimes their heads aren't higher than the top ring ropes."
"I was looking at the pound for pound top fighters on the Boxrec page,"I said."They left the best guy off the top twenty."
"And who would that be?"asked Ed putting both hands on the bar.
"Roman Gonzalez."
"Who?"
"Roman Gonzalez.He's from Nicaragua.He's the flyweight champion."
"Really?",exclaimed the bartender.
"Watch him on Youtube.He was 88 and zero as an amateur.He's undefeated in 45 fights as a pro with 38 KO's."
"Those are Ray Robinson numbers,"said Ed.
"But seriously, you got to watch this guy,"I said."He's got it all.He works the body,throws combinations,slips punches.Never wastes any gas.He comes in like Duran,but he's not as wild.I've never seen a fighter who puts his feet in a more perfect position to get the most on his punches."
"You say he's from Nicaragua?"
"He's fought in LA. a couple of times. The Latinos can tell you all about him.His nickname is Little Chocolate."
"I wonder why the Boxrec editors don't have him listed very high?"
"He hasn't been on TV much.Besides, to put a flyweight at the top on the best pound for pound list would be unprecedented."
"So who's number one?"asked Ed.
"Canelo Alvarez."
"Mayweather made him look like a novice."
"Tyson Fury is ahead of him and so is Klitschko."
"When I go home,I'll look him up on Youtube,"said Ed.
"I think you'll know what I'm talking about."
"Yeah,"said Ed shifting the weight of his feet,"flyweights don't get much respect."
"Like you said,maybe they need to change the name of that division."

Image

Roman "Chocolatito" Gonzalez
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Bury My Gloves At The Olympic Auditorium

The way I'd find out who was fighting in Tijuana was to just look at the numerous fight posters that were nailed on just about every lamp post and telephone pole around town. Unless it was a championship fight,the San Diego papers would never mention what the cards were across the border.One night as I was stumbling in and out of the various bars on Revolution Street when my eye caught the attention of one those posters.The name "Kid Anahuac",in big black letters ,was gracing the piece of cardboard. It was so long ago I can't remember who Kid Anahuac fought. In fact,I don't remember much about the fight that was held at the Auditorio on the Boulevard that night. I'd heard of Kid Anahuac and I figured I'd better buy a ticket because he might never make his way back to TJ again.He was a very popular and common name mentioned the watering holes in TJ.

I couldn't find anyone who was interested in joining me to watch the fight.If it would have been an Olivares or a Napoles I might have gotten a bite,so I went by myself. To tell the truth I liked it that way anyway. The old Auditorium seemed to always show its wear.It was a boxing memorial. The place was always noisy,packed with crowds that drank up boxing like they swigged down Mexican beer on a hot summer Saturday night. I wouldn't say those cards were something you'd ask your sweetheart to go with you. It was a great big man cave.One night I remember the sewage lines in town were backed up.Didn't stop anyone from crapping on the floor of the arena's bathroom.

Kid Anahuac ,at that time in the 60's, was winding down on a long career.He was one of those Mexican fighters who was the typical lunch bag,go to fight ten times a year in every arena throughout the Republic,kind of battler.He didn't have many fights in the States. They brought him to the bullring in TJ to fight the young up and coming Davey Moore and lost a split decision.They rematched the pair at the Olympic Auditorium and Moore won going away.At the end,Kid Anahuac was thrown in against another great future champion at the LA Sports Arena,Ismael Laguna,and was stopped in eight rounds.

But that night in TJ Kid Anahuac wasn't in there with any future Hall Of Famer.I remember his opponent being out smarted more than anything else.The crowd was excited.They knew much more about Kid Anahuac than I did.The fight fan in Mexico in those days was a walking encyclopedia on the sport,especially when it came to their countrymen.

You see, the kind of fighter Kid Anahuac was, represented what most Mexican breadwinners were...struggling,unnoticed,a natural underdog.He was like Cantinflas ,the Mexican Charlie Chaplin. The little guy who gets by on guile and street smarts and survives another day,but with a smile on his face.But Mario Moreno who played that role on the screen made plenty of money.But he was sympathetic with the masses.Cantinflas is never mentioned with a curse. Kid Anahuac,however,was no shadow of the common man.He was the common man. Ay least he began that way. Along with all the Mexican fighters with names like "Baby" and" Kid",the battlers who were nearer to their Indian lineage than the aristocracy of the Spanish,these boys were the backbone of Mexican boxing. They didn't have the natural talent to win championships.They fought because that was a lot easier than working in the fields.When Kid Anahuac climbed through the ropes that night I could see a face that was a meatophior for the struggles that have gone on in that country since the beginning.A busted nose.scartissue,and putty like skin.He was prone to bleeding.The people loved him because he was one of them.Kid Anahuac was their neighbor.

I knew a fighter in TJ(who won a title)who couldn't write his name. It was bittersweet to see the notary sitting beside him when he put his "X" on the contract.There were a lot of people in Mexico who couldn't read or write. Working when you were old enough to walk often took priority At one time there were more registered fighters in Mexico than all the other fighters in all the other countries combined. Let no one tell you different,boxing is,and always will be the number one sport in Mexico. The "Kids",the" Babys",the fighters from those villages in Tamualipas(where Kid Anahuac was born),Tuxtla,and Apatzingan. The villages with the Indian names where the Indians speak with the clicked tongues. When there was a time when it was against the law to sell them alcohol. But when it came to fighting,real life or death fighting, they were the most tenacious. During the Revolution,every side recruited the Indian to fight. They were suicidal.They threw themseives on barbed wire,died chattering their machine guns in their foxholes.Often their wives(soldaderas)would die alongside them.When the Mexican Army tried to take them to slave camps on the ferries,The Indians would jump overboard to their deaths.

When you look up the records of someone like a Kid Anahuac, it's noted that he had over a hundred fights.You can take it to the bank that he had more than two hundred. I found that fight I saw with him on the Boxrec records.It said Anahuac's opponent that night was making his debut. I don't believe it. That kid had come out of nowhere somewhere deep down in Mexico. I also saw Anahuac's debut. It was printed that he fought a guy with over a hundred fights. Again,who kept an accurate score down there at that time?By the way,if a fighter had over a hundred bouts,he lost at least a third of the time,usually against a pug of similar ilk.

So back in the dusty old days of Mexico,if a Kid Anahuac kept on plugging along,the Mexican "aficionado" in LA. would get a chance to see him at Olympic Auditorium,that historic landmark that was a Mecca for the Mexican fighter from some quiet village in Mexico.I'm glad at the end Kid Anahuac got to climb into that ring at the Olympic finally.He must have felt it was worth the struggle.

Image

Kid Anahuac
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Sugar Coated

"Hey Sugar.Remember when they killed Louie Greenberg in the parking lot when he went to the brewery that day?"yelled my old man to Sugar Ray Robinson.
"Hell Joe. I thought they wanted to shoot me,"responded the ex champ shaking his head.
Me and my dad were at the Stardust Hotel in Mission Valley watching Luis Rodriguez train for his fight with Rafael Gutierrez. It was a big fight for San Diego.It was a big fight for the winner between Rodriguez and Gutierrez. The winner would get a shot at Benvenuti's title. I think my dad was there to keep tabs on what was going on.Before I get back to Ray Robinson,I'll quickly mention the main event.Rodriguez was way behind in the fight ,surprisingly ,going into the 6th round.He was fighting lethargically.He looked weak.Then in the 6th Luis launched a left hook and he was on his way to Benvenuti.My dad jumped into the ring ,put his arm around Angelo Dundee,and walked with him to the dressing room. I heard my dad say,"You got your title shot goomba." All this happened with my mouth wide open. I had no idea what that meant.On the way back home my dad told me the story about the hit on Gus Greenberg and how Ray Robinson almost got in the way of a bullet.

"This Greenberg was a lawyer for the Outfit,"said my dad."The Feds were getting him to testify before a senate committee.He was beginning to fold. The mob couldn't let him cooperate so they killed him. He was with his wife in the parking lot when it happened. He ran a brewery for the mob. Sugar Ray Robinson was walking with him.They wanted Robinson's name on one of their products,I think they wanted to make a soda pop with his name on it,but Robinson wanted too much of a cut.Robinson was standing at the corner when they killed Greenberg."

It was an interesting story.A lot of the stories my dad would talk about piqued my curiosity.Later,I found out my dad working for the state liquor commission at the time of the Greenberg hit.My dad worked for the Outfit more than he put his efforts into public service for the state of Illinois. That was 1955. My dad went on about Robinson.
"After Robinson won the welter title,we got him to agree to 'carry' his opponents to the end. We made a lot of money with him. Then we'd put the muscle on the bookmakers."

When Sugar Ray Robinson dropped in to visit the fighters in Mission valley in that year of 1968,he had been retired as a professional fighter for three years. I saw him fight one of his last fights at the Tijuana bullring.The year was 1965.Robinson was 45 years old .He had had over 200 fights.His opposition was a local guy,Memo Ayon.He had some skills.At that time there were a lot of middleweights that could hang with Robinson.When Sugar Ray climbed through the ropes the first thing that got my attention was Robinson's body. His chest was saggy.HIs body was soft.His flesh hung on him. The fight went the distance. Robinson showed an occasional flash. The legs would start moving,but like the old Ali,they couldn't keep him from harm's way.He'd settle down along the ropes and then hold on.,That really got the crowd going. Ray couldn't get his punches off like he wanted to.He was exhausted at the end. He lost the fight.I thought he might have won,but what would it have mattered? Robby was shot. He was shot a long time ago.

The thing that was very sad ,and surprising to me,was the animosity that the Mexican crowd showed towards Robinson that night. If I had a dollar for every "N word" than was projected from the locals,I could have booked a vacation for me and the wife to Acapulco. African American fighters that showed flash aren't going to win any popularity contests in Mexico. Joe Louis and Archie Moore "acted" like gentlemen. Those two won the hearts of Mexico. When Muhammad Ali was preparing to fight Ken Norton in San Diego he was booked to workout a day in Tijuana. He cancelled out.I think he knew his charm wouldn't work south of the border.

But they carried Ayon on their shoulders after that fight.Robinson huddled with his corner and left the ring practically un noticed. Shortly afterwards, Ayon fought a prime Luis Rodriguez in Los Angeles.The "Nose" virtually eliminated Ayon of any legitimacy for ranking as a contender.Ayon became a referee.Robinson left us in 1988.He was in the final stages of dementia and living hand to mouth.

In 1973,on the undercard of the Armando Muniz/Thurman Durden card at the Olympic Auditorium,Sugar Ray Robinson put on exhibition with Mike Nixon,a pretty fair fighter.It was a two minute two round affair.Nixon couldn't lay a glove on Robinson. The crowd went wild as Sugar showboated around the ring.He still had enough left to remind us of the "old " Sugar Ray. It seemed he was ageless,but Ray Robinson was getting old. His mind was slipping too.He liked to go to the Main Street Gym ,around that time,and workout with fighters. One day he had on a rubber suit. When asked about the rubber suit,he responded,"I need to get under 160.I've got to fight Jake LaMotta."

A rubber suit,Jake LaMotta,"carrying fighters for the Outfit",knowing my father,dancing circles around Mike Nixon,getting booed inside a Mexican bullring.To put the Sugar Ray Robinson puzzle together you'd need a table as big as a boxing ring.

Image

Sugar Ray Robinson


.
scartissue
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1893
Joined: 31 Mar 2002, 20:00

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by scartissue »

Rog, I saw that exhibition between Robinson and Nixon and I also saw the fight between Muniz and Durden, but I didn't know they were on the same card. When I would see the broadcasts I would see them in a disjointed manner, so I never knew what fight was on the same card with what main event. Hell, it didn't matter to me. My Dad and I would watch two guys in an alley going at it.
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

The Windmill

I think all fighters after hanging up their gloves want to remembered as "warriors",tough guys who let it all hang out.Maybe fighters of the more skillful ilk want their legacies to thought of as "craftsmen",athletes who gave a lesson of how to hit and not be hit. Pugs who took a beating every time they got out there are either put on a pay no mind list or are disrespected because of their ineptness.That's tragically unfair. But I remember one fighter,when discussed in neighboring boxing watering holes,as being in a unique category.He's often seen as being a "clown."I've heard fans of the sport laugh when his name is brought up."He was the funniest fighter I've ever seen." "He sure could get the crowd laughing." If you frequented the Southern California arenas during the 60's and 70's you probably can come up the name.

I saw Ray "Windmill" White at the California Boxing Hall of Fame Banquet a few years ago in Los Angeles. He wore a beautifully tailored dark suit.He was being inducted into the Hall that day. I talked to him a little.He was very willing to circulate the room and extend himself to the gathering.I was glad he was to get his plaque.

I saw Windmill fight at the old San Diego Coliseum a couple of times. He WAS different. Accompanying Windmill was his manager Baron Von Stume.the man with the big handlebar mustache.Ray, a lanky 6 foot 4 inch light heavyweight, hair receding.the back sway shaped,the arms hanging down to his knees,skin pale as a ghost.He was something to watch. But it was his performance that will be hard to forget.

Sometimes I didn't think it was on the level. It was some kind of show. With Windmill and Von Stume it seemed like something that should have been put on one of the wrestling cards.Ray got his aka. from often facing off with his opponent swinging his arms around like ,yes,a windmill.He must have been double jointed because he had this punch that he'd wind up around his back.I guess there was nothing in the rules saying it was an illegal blow,but then again I never saw him land that thing.Ray would make faces,he'd talk to the audience,he'd flop to the mat like a dead fish after getting tapped on the shoulder,then leap up like a Jack In The Box at the count of nine. I thought he was "goofy". I didn't want him to win(though his record is a pretty good one)because of all the comedy. Boxing needs to approached very seriously.Ray and Von Stume were a novelty act. They were around when Dick Tiger ,and then Bob Foster, wore the crown.I think they knew their limitations. Ray won the California Light Heavyweight title from Terry Lee. A little later the crown was on top of Mike Quarry's head.

But my impressions of Ray "Windmill" White changed after that CBHOF ceremony. I think the fighters who attended understood,but it took a meat head like me for it to finally register true. When I talked to Windmill,I brought up on of his last goes.That was with a fast upcoming undefeated Jesse Burnett at the San Diego Coliseum. As the fight progressed it was obvious that Windmill was windmilling at air and Burnett was hitting concrete. Windmill began his "flopping act"every time Burnet would land something.Then at the count of "nine" he did his cat on all fours spring up to his paws.You thought Charlie Chaplin was in there with Burnett.THe crowd was laughing at the Windmill. I wanted him out of there.George Latka was reffing that night.After the 4th or 5th pratfall he waved it off.Windmill then leaped out of the ring ,togs and gloves still on, and ran out onto the street.

When I brought up that night to Windmill at the banquet,he looked a little sheepish. Windmill just chuckled a little. I watched Ray "Windmill" White off and on that afternoon circulating. I felt bad about bringing the Burnett fight up to him. I mean what could he say?But that was part of the act.Him and Von Stume were more like a tag team and history will most often take them with a grain of salt.Ray White was a good fighter. He never beat anybody with his antics.He needed his fists to do that.Maybe he confused some of the lesser contenders,but against a quality fighter the show boating hurt him more than put points on his scorecard.

I don't laugh about it anymore. I know Ray White wants to be remembered as a good fighter,and he was. At the banquet I think he wanted people to recognize that he had talent. The ex pugs,I'm sure.know that.Then I sucker punch him with the Burnett fight.Ray is a trainer now working with young fighters in Ventura County.I've seen some video of him working with the boys. He's very serious and has a big following.But I don't think the Windmill is going to show them that wrap around the back punch.Sorry Ray. Just had to get that in,but no matter what is said,you were a credit to the sport and the fans,The way things are today,it's not a sin to bring some laughter into this world.

Image

Ray "Windmill" White
Chuck1052
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 4282
Joined: 11 Dec 2003, 22:08

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Chuck1052 »

During his boxing career, Ray "Windmill" White, a resident of an unincorporated Ventura County town of Oak View, received lots of ink in the Ventura Star-Free Press. I saw him lose a decision in a ten-round bout with Lonnie Bennett at the Ventura County Fairgrounds during the early 1970s. The bout was the main event of the first professional boxing card that I saw in person. Ray essentially discarded his clownish shtick and played it straight during the bout.

- Chuck Johnston
scartissue
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1893
Joined: 31 Mar 2002, 20:00

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by scartissue »

Chuck, did you agree with the decision? I only ask because the boxrec report shows that the writer from the Oxnard Press-Courier scored for Windmill.
Chuck1052
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 4282
Joined: 11 Dec 2003, 22:08

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Chuck1052 »

scartissue wrote:Chuck, did you agree with the decision? I only ask because the boxrec report shows that the writer from the Oxnard Press-Courier scored for Windmill.
In regards to the bout between Lonnie Bennett and Ray "Windmill" White, it was very close and had very little in the way of action. I remember that Lonnie seemed more aggressive and landed the two most telling blows of the bout, both of which resulted in White stumbling backwards a few steps. White seemed relatively passive and more defensively inclined. If I had to give the decision to either fighter, it would have gone to Bennett. As I recall, one of the ring officials gave White only one round, which I thought was a bit of line considering that it was a very close bout.

- Chuck Johnston
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Muy Hombre

My father always had an interest in boxing. In Chicago he handled a couple of prelim boys. I remember as a little kid going to the sporting goods store to pick up a robe that my father bought for one of those fighters. Years later I asked my father whatever happened with those fighters.He told me that they didn't pan out.My father had an adage.He said if he had a fighter,especially a young fighter,that lost two in a row,he'd tell the guy to get a regular job. By the way,Mike Murphy,the time keeper at the Chicago Stadium,was my Godfather.

My father also liked to bet, with the rest of the Outfit guys,on the fights. They fixed a lot of those matches in Chicago and in turn made a lot of money with the pugs. When my father relocated to San Diego,he was still interested in the sport,but as far as the fix being in,he wasn't privy to any of that.He'd take me to the fights in San Diego and Tijuana. He knew Bob Johnston whose brother Charlie and Doc Kearns maneuvered Archie Moore. Bob Johnston operated the last burlesque house in the US,The Hollywood Theater, located on lower Market Street in San Diego. Next to his girly show was his watering hole,the Sports Palace. It was there where my dad took me in the back room and introduced me to Charlie Johnston and Doc Kearns. Kearns retold the stories of how he would load Jack Dempsey's gloves before his fights. I guess my father ,being connected with those Chicago boys,was privy to a lot of information an outsider could only speculate about.

My father took me to my first fight in Tijuana. He talked about a Mexican featherweight who was very popular in the city south of San Diego. The fighter's name was Kid Irapuato. Of course that wasn't his real name. He was born in Irapuato ,Mexico so they put"Kid" in front of Irapuato.It sounded a lot more exciting that way. Kid Irapuato was going to be matched up with the current featherweight champ,the great Davey Moore. My father,who always went with his hunches,told me Irapuato was going to beat the great Davey Moore.

Davey Moore was from somewhere back east,but he fought a lot on the west coast and in Latin America because that's where the good smaller fighters called home. The "aficianados" didn't like Davey Moore. He made a living beating Mexican fighters. In fact he never lost to a Mexican inside the ring.Moore was a tough little guy with a just as an tough attitude. Kid Irapuato was a good looking kid who spent as much time in the cantinas as he did inside the gym,so said dad. He liked the women and they liked him.He was what the Mexicans call "muy hombre." Being a skirt chaser can run a fighter out of the sport if he can't put a lid on his hormones.

The fight was at the auditorium on the Boulevard. The place was packed to the doors. Like I said Moore was the feather champ,but he didn't have his title on the line. Kid Irapuato tried the best he could with everything he had. My father visited his camp and told me that the Kid was minding his P's and Q's.No liquor and no dames for this one.He knew this was his shot.But Irapuato was not in the same league with Davey Moore. The Kid put up a fight,but Moore was too strong.After ten fast frames the referee held Davey Moore's hand up in the air.But that didn't didn't win Davey Moore over with the crowd. We were sitting ringside. After the decision we experienced the incoming...bottles,chairs,people,anything that was light enough that could be thrown at Moore and his entourage.I hoped my father hadn't laid any money on this one.

Later in his career the two fought again in Ciudad Juarez in the bullring. This time Irapuato didn't last the distance,however the crowd's reaction was similar to the outcome in Tijuana. Moore,with gloves and robe on, with his crew had to flag a cab outside the dust pit to get sped off to the border before they all got "dobe walled."

In 1988 I was coaching American football in Tijuana at a private school.i was driving my car down there on the Boulevard with one of my coaches and his father.We were talking about the fights in Tijuana. I asked about whatever happened to Kid Irapuato. My passengers began to chuckle.
"He is a motorcycle cop along the Boulevard,"said the coaches father."All day he pulls people over and shakes them down and then at night spends the money in the cantinas." As fate would have it about a mile down the Boulevard I see a motorcycle cop in my rear view mirror. He put his light on me. My coach's father turned around. He was a crusty looking old guy wearing a fedora and a bad fitting brown suit."Pull over!",he shouted at me. I did as I was told. After stopping the car the old guy flings open the car door and takes a flying leap at the motocycle cop. They're wrestling around on the ground kicking up dust like a couple of bantam roosters. After tearing at each other for about 5 minutes both men got up bleeding and panting heavily.As fast as the rumble started, it ended. The cop went back to his bike.The old man wiping of the dirt and straightening out his suit climbed back inside my car. I was flabbergasted. His son was beside himself.
"That 'pinchi' Irapuato,"said the old man catching his breath."No way I'll give him a peso."
So I guess the answer to my question was validated that day. Kid Irapuato might have hung up his gloves,but he still had passion for wine ,women ,and song.
Image

Kid Irapuato
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Superman Had A Good Right Hand

One afternoon when I was lending Archie Moore a hand at his ABC Boys Club in San Diego, I asked him if it was true that he was going to put on exhibition match with George Reeves the actor who played Superman in the TV series. The Old Mongoose looked up a little and then chuckled.
"We were supposed to do that,but then Superman died."

I remember when I heard on the news that George Reeves was dead.They said it was an apparent suicide.Some investigative reporters said it wasn't a suicide.There was no way he could have shot himself that way,whatever that way was. To me,Superman was dead.Boy, did the wisecracks come flooding in after that.

But I grew up loving that show. Perhaps it was a little perverse on my part. I imagined Superman to be invincible,as long as there wasn't any kryptonite around.Bending steel in his bare hands. Leaping tall buildings in a single bound. Of course Clark Kent was really Superman in disguise. No one could see that Clark Kent was Superman,even Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen.

Superman was the standard for truth ,justice,and the American way. But except for that kryptonite thing,you couldn't kill Superman,and yet he could destroy anything else... like asteroids headed for Earth,Imagine if he was around today.No H bomb nor all the armies in the world would have a chance. I wondered if he could live forever.They said he wasn't mortal.

So when I heard that George Reeves had killed himself,he must have used a bullet made out of kryptonite.I wonder what got him so down to do something that permanent. We need the dude around today.ISIS,the North Koreans,Iran,the drug cartels wouldn't stand a chance.Maybe that's why they carry on like they do. They know the Man Of Steel ain't around.

George Reeves.they say,knew a little something about boxing. He'd had some experience in the amateurs,so they say. Gene LoBell used to instruct and workout with him in the early days.Some say Reeves had potential. Others say it was a lot of wind and smoke.But watch some of those episodes when Superman is "fighting" the bad guys.He threw a beautiful straight right cross.He was taught that somewhere.

I'm glad Old Arch never went in there with George Reeves.George Reeves was Superman,at least on the television screen.If you fantasied it and believed,then Archie would have had to watch his ass.But if you don't believe in Santa Claus,you know that Superman was just an act.But later when they started making those Superman movies with Christopher Reeve.I didn't believe in that guy was Superman.Christopher Reeve wasn' t and never was Superman. George Reeves was Superman. Gee, I miss that guy.The world would sure be a safer place if he were still around.Damn those kryptonite bullets.
Image

Superman
Sequitorian
Cruiserweight
Posts: 1766
Joined: 26 Feb 2011, 15:35

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Sequitorian »

kikibalt wrote:Image

Bobo Olson, Manager Sid Flaherty & Maurice Harper

Circa 1954
Someone should correct the photo of Maurice at his boxrec page here: http://boxrec.com/boxer/43296.

I knew Maurice and that ain't him.

That's Maurice above.
scartissue
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1893
Joined: 31 Mar 2002, 20:00

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by scartissue »

Sequitorian, go to the Board Index and select 'Record Queries and updates'. This is the section where your info on Maurice Harper needs to be seen. The editors will make corrections as needed.
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Caught On Camera


"Hey,I know that guy,"remarked my father with a laugh.
That's what he said when he saw Lee Harvey Oswald get shot in the basement of the Dallas Police Station.My dad and I,like millions of Americans were watching events unfold on the TV after the JFK assassination.My father was referring to the shooter.After the air cleared and the reporters were trying to sort out the chaos,it was told that the gunman was Jack Ruby.One of the first comments was that his name was Jack Rubinstein.
"Yeah,"my father went on,"That's Jack Rubinstein."
"How do you know him?"I asked a little dumbfounded.
"He used to hang around Chicago.Sam Giancana knew him.He wanted to be thought of as a tough guy.He wanted people to think Jews were tough.He liked to hang around the mob guys and fighters.You'd see him with Barney Ross all the time"
"So what is he doing in Dallas?"
"I don't know.He's a nut case.We used to call him'meshuga'.He was always wanting to impress how tough he was. No one took him seriously.He was kind of a joke."

My father had been separated pretty much from those Chicago boys ever since he moved out to California.He used to say that Sam Giancana was his boss.Tony Spilotro tried to intimidate my father at the Stardust Hotel in the steam room in San Diego. When my father said that Giancana was his boss,Spilotro backed off. "Mooney" was Spilotro's boss too.

After all the fallout years later,it was learned that Ruby was the Outfit's guy in Dallas.He knew Hoffa and he knew Trafficante,and Marcello,and Oswald.(At the press conference at the Dallas Police Station,before Oswald was whacked,DA Henry Wade was briefing the reporters on Oswald. He said that Oswald belonged to the "Free Cuba Committee".Ruby,sitting at the back of the room interrupted and corrected Wade."That's 'The Fair Play For Cuba Committee,Henry.")They were supposed to kill Oswald at the Texas theater or when Officer Tippit and who was with him in that squad car blew it,so now there was a problem. They couldn't let Oswald talk.He knew too much. So Jack Ruby gets a call from Chicago.You see if they ask you to kill someone and say "no",you could die or your family dies.Ruby had a brother and a sister,so the door to the basement was left open for him.

I used to ask my dad about the JFK hit. He said Oswald did it.He seemed like he never wanted to get into that. I'm sure he had other ideas,but he never knew the nuts and bolts of it. All I know is my dad hated the Kennedy's.Bobby was the major pain in the ass. His brother turned him loose on organized crime and the mob felt they were double crossed.Old man Kennedy went to Frank Sinatra and Johnny Roselli to get Sam Giancana to stuff the ballot boxes in Chicago during the election. Who knows how many dead people voted for JFK.Jimmy Hoffa was dead against it,but Giancana cooperated. The mob believed Joe Kennedy could control his sons. Joe Kennedy had worked with the bootleggers( he sold sugar to my grandfather,Diamond Joe Esposito to make liquor during prohibition and selling rum brought up from the Caribbean).But Bobby had broke a lot of balls,especially Hoffa's, during those McClellan Hearings.After old Joe got his stroke,there was no holding back Bobby Kennedy.

I asked my father if the mob put a contract out on John F. Kennedy.
"No way the mafia puts out contracts on Presidents of the United States.They get recruited to do things,but they don't give the order on something like that."


I often think about if my father would have stayed in Chicago.During the 70's the Church Committee was asking a lot of Outfit guys about what they knew about the Bay of Pigs.Fellas like Sam Giancana,Johnny Roselli,Chuck Nicoletti,and even Jimmy Hoffa had secrets that ,if revealed,would have shaked things up. They were pals of my dad back in Chicago.After Nixon pardoned Hoffa,my dad thought Hoffa would have something for him.He said Hoffa promised him something,but the stipulation was that Hoffa would have to stay away for running for the presidency of the Teamsters for awhile. Jimmy's thirst for power got him killed.His mob buddied like the way Frank Fitzsimmons was running things,. Fitz was the guy Hoffa put in charge while he was in prison. Hoffa and his Outfit pals all were murdered. It's lucky Frank Sinatra didn't wind up floating face down in the East River.There were a lot of bosses that wanted to shut his big mouth permanently.Sinatra was like Ruby in way. He wanted to be perceived as a tough guy,but the mob looked at him as a little punk.Giancana saved his ass,but that's when Giancana began losing face with Tony Accardo( the guy who the big boss) and the Syndicate back East.Giancana brought in Sinatra and his Rat Pack Hollywood friends and messed up.

But I don't know what is with the American public anymore. If you're a gangster,or was a gangster,you become a part of folklore.That's why when I think of my grandfather getting gunned down outside his house in Chicago,I wonder . His bodyguards dropped to the ground when the gunmen leaped out of the car blasting away with their shotguns.The guys who were supposed to look out for him. The guys he trusted. Maybe most men are closer to Walter Mitty than to Al Capone,but want to think that they're tough,or live their lives through them. Look what it got Jack Ruby.


Image

Barney Ross
kikibalt
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 13128
Joined: 24 Oct 2005, 18:39

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by kikibalt »

Sequitorian wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Image

Bobo Olson, Manager Sid Flaherty & Maurice Harper

Circa 1954
Someone should correct the photo of Maurice at his boxrec page here: http://boxrec.com/boxer/43296.

I knew Maurice and that ain't him.

That's Maurice above.

Wrong picture on Harper's record....Harper was not a white man
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Classic Way Out West Coast Boxing

Just my opinion,but I've never thought of Hawaii being in the United States.Maybe the Phillipines or Japan should have annexed those islands.It would have been a better fit.As far as the native Hawaiians are concerned,white guys are just "Howley Boys" ,another name for an illegal alien.

I traveled over there a few times in the 60's to see if I had what it takes to be a REAL surfer. I was never a decent wave rider in California so I didn't go in there with a lot of confidence.What I experienced on Oahu quickly convinced me that surfing wasn't going to be my identity.The guys I went with could held their own.One of them,Pat Cosgrove,went on to make quite a name for himself internationally.Me?Well those waves in Hawaii broke over those reefs surging from Alaska at twice the speed as the California waves that were slowed down by the Continental Shelf. The Hawaii waves coming down from the open sea ,after hitting the reefs, would spew out 20 foot tubes that showcased what the ultimate surfer wanted to master.No way I was going to conquer those waves.The only thing I could think was those breaks would break my body onto a reef and turn my body into shark food.

So while my buddies were riding the waves,I'd just resign myself to watch their maneuvers from the shore with the other wanna be's. My exercise consisted of going to the gym and pumping iron.I was pretty good at that.The locals were pretty big people,at least the Hawaiians and Samoans.At the gym I could lift more than anyone else in the place . I got respect from the "Poi Boys."They were into power,size,and strength.One night me and the "bruddas" were all lifting and grunting and posturing. The gym was in downtown Honolulu.It was small,but it was filled with Olympic bars and weights and heavy dumb bells.It was a man cave for heavy lifters.

I'll never forget the night I was invited to go to the fights with all my "bruddas" after pumping iron in the man cave.The boxing matches in Honolulu were at the International Center in Honolulu.Everybody called the place the HIC,the acronym. The main event was going to be a good one.A hot bantamweight by the name of Domi Manalang was going to get it on with Jesus Pimental's brother,Jose. Manalang was undefeated at the time and was the biggest draw in town. Hawaii didn't have any pro teams(still don't)and the university was playing small time NAIA football. Boxing was the big sport,except for surfing.

After finishing up the lifting, I was ready to see some combat at the HIC. My new friends wanted to wait awhile before leaving. They told me they were waiting for a friend . They said there was plenty of time to break into case of Primo beer and wait for their friend. I don't know what it is with those island folks,but they get strange after a few beers. The personality transformation can get crazy and often dangerous.I don't like drinking with them,especially being a "Howley Boy."

I'm anxiously drinking my beers when one of these guys asks me if I want to wrestle. His eyes turned glassy and he had this s--t eating grin on his face.
"Naw.let's just go to the fights,"I said looking at the door.
"Brudda."one these giants exhorted ."We need to wait for Wendy."
"You mean a girl is coming over?"
"You better believe it brudda."
OK,I'll wait for Wendy.Maybe we'll have another workout before we go to the fights I thought.

After a few more Primos(and I was wishing Wendy would show up real fast).these guys were getting frisky and I think horny.I still didn't like the way they were smiling at me.Just then this slight little thing comes walking inside the gym wearing a tight fitting low cut red mini skirt. I could see heavy eye shadow and lots of ruby red lipstick. Long black hair draped down in front of the shoulders.Like a bunch animals in heat,my workout pals ran towards Wendy and flopped at her feet. Wendy was wiggling and squirming sending these guys into frenzy.I'm looking at all this and then my jaw dropped. Wendy lifted her skirt.What made her thong bulge would have disqualified her from the Miss Hawaii competition.All this bizarre behavior though made my exit easy. The bruddas were so enthralled by Wendy that I wasn't noticed when I slipped out the door. I guess the name for these "Wendy's" are something they call a "Benny Boy." Maybe if I was locked up in jail for the rest of my life,but that night all I wanted to do is go to the fights.I never saw the bruddas at the arena . What I saw in the ring that night was probaly a lot more civilized than what I was imaging was going on back at that gym.

Image

Hawaiian surfing legend,Eddie Aikau
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

A Piece Of Something

Ed the bartender had finished counting his cash drawer,turned around put a coaster down on the bar in front of me.Then he tipped the beer glass under the spigot and pulled the handle. Gets so you frequent a bar often enough it's reassuring that the barkeep knows what you want to drink.
"Did I tell you I'm in the market to buy a new car?"Ed asked me.
"Good for you,"I answered."What are you interested in?"
"Don't know yet.I'll take my time looking around."
Ed began dusting off the liquor shelves.
"Rog,do you have that Sirius channel on your radio?"asked Ed with his back to me while he was straightening out the bottles on the shelves.
"Yeah,I've got it."
"How do you like it?"
I like it.You can get the signal anywhere."
"I hear they offer a lot of different channels."
"They do,"I replied,"But I found out the other day they deleted the 'Sinatra Channel' ".
"Why did they do that?"asked Ed turning around to face me.
"I don't know.Maybe the 'Sinatra Channel' is getting pretty popular and now they want you to pay extra for it."
"Are you going to buy it?"
"No,I can live without it."
"Sinatra had a great voice,"remarked Ed.
"He did for sure,but I've got my reasons."
"Didn't he have a fighter up in LA?"
"Cisco Andrade."
"Yeah,that was the guy.He fought for the championship once."
"Sinatra wanted to have a piece of a fighter.He felt it enhanced his image as a tough guy."
"He wanted everyone to think he was tough,"said Ed.
"He was the biggest draft dodger in World War II,and then he makes those war movies like Von Ryan's Express."
"The writer Westbrook Pegler always brought it out in the papers about Sinatra not serving,"said Ed.
"My father couldn't stand Sinatra for that after my old man being a Marine and fighting at Okinawa.But later he softened his take on that."
"People wanted to put the War behind them."
"The one that got me about him was when he said that he would rather be a Mafia Don than President of The United States."
"More of that tough guy image."
"My father said that Sinatra used to enter a place with his bodyguards and pick a fight with the biggest guy knowing that his bodyguards would break it up before anything started."
"Didn't Joe DiMaggio turn to him for help to fix things up with Marilyn Monroe?"
"Yeah,but all Sinatra did for his 'pal' was to turn her on to drugs and after he banged her,he let his Mafia pals get sloppy seconds."
" He also had something going on with Lauren Bacall."
"While his other 'pal',Humphrey Bogart,was dying of cancer Sinatra moved in on his wife.Promised to marry her."
"Didn't Bogart start him off with rat pack?"
"I don't want to talk about him anymore,"I said as I finished my beer.
"He wanted everyone to think he was in with the Mob."
"After The Mob got the votes for JFK counted the 'right way' in Chicago, and then his brother Bobby turning on them,I hear they wanted whack him,
It was Sinatra who approached Giancana with that.Frank was palsy walsies with the Kennedy's at the time.Him and Peter Lawford were lining up those Hollywood babes for them."
"Didn't the Kennedy's 86 all those Rat Pack guys later on?"
"Let's change the subject,and I'll have another draft."
Ed put my glass under the spigot.
"So you won't pay fot the 'Sinatra Station' ",asked Ed as he put a head on my glass.
"It's not the money,it's the principle of the thing."

Image

Cisco Andrade
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Shorty And The Bandit

When the San Diego Coliseum was still putting on the weekly fights,the surrounding neighborhood would come to life. Between Broadway and Imperial Avenue, cordoned off inside 13th and 16th, the local eateries and watering holes got pretty lively. Bars like Jack's Island,the Lucky Lady Club,and Carl's Baseball Inn would fill up with Levis and Khakis,flannel shirts,and work boots.Carl's Baseball Inn was my favorite on the night of the boxing matches.It was situated on the corner of 16th and Island.A small wooden place built under some low rent apartments. The area was a mix of whites,blacks,and Mexicans,pretty much a working class.The ship yards were down the street and many of the men worked there or the various aircraft plants along Pacific Highway near the harbor going west through downtown. After their shifts were over the bars around the San Diego Coliseum spring alive.

Carl's Baseball Inn had been around for quite awhile.When I first gave them my business it was during the mid 60's. There was no major league baseball club in San Diego yet.The minor league Padres ,who used to play at Lane Field at the foot of Broadway ,were now taking swings at Westgate Park in Mission Valley.Lane Field,that old green wood structure with all its knot holes,had been razed by the land developers and made into a parking lot. Slowly but surely it was a time that many of the landmarks were being bulldozed off the face of the earth.

There still wasn't much when it came to pro sports in San Diego.The Chargers had recently merged into the NFL from the old AFL. There was no pro basketball,and then there were the minor league Padres.Carl's Baseball Inn mainly focused on the Pacific Coast League,the minor leagues.But some colorful,and later famous ball players grew up with those west coast teams. Lefty O'Doul,the DiMaggio brothers,Padres like Rudy Regalado and Earl Rapp.Those were big names in this town.

Carl's Baseball Inn was like a local sports museum inside. That's what drew me to the place.It had a small bar with some booths along the back and side walls,but it was all the old pictures,programs,and autographed baseballs that spooked the place up. It made for chatter with the locals about anything to do with sports even though San Diego was pretty much just a small "Navy" town.

As the bar filled up with cigarette smoke and the jukebox played songs from the 40's,the sports conversation would often shift to boxing ,especially when there was a card at the Coliseum.Now I talked about the photographs of the horsehiders,but there were a few images of the boxers,especially of the fellas' that slugged it out at the old Coliseum. Of course Archie Moore was hanging up behind the bar,but the photos of the two boys that piqued my interest were a couple of old timers,"Shorty" Hogue and Johnny "The Bandit" Romero. They fought before and during the war years.Many of their fights were at the Coliseum. Archie,"Shorty",and "The Bandit" fought each other for bragging rights of the town back in those days. At least that's what those old timers would say inside Carl's Baseball Inn. Sometimes if the fight would be something bigger than the Coliseum could handle,they'd put it in the ballpark at Lane Field.(I should also note, to be fair, that "Shorty" Hogue had a twin brother they called "Big Boy" who was also a middleweight).The three ,"Shorty","The Bandit",and "The Mongoose" all took turns beating each other in great fights in front of capacity crowds, That's what those old timers said.And who is not to believe them?

Archie Moore went on to win the light heavy title and fell short against Marciano and Patterson for the big man's crown. "Shorty" Hogue and Johnny"The Bandit" Romero?Not much written down about those boys.The old timers are six feet under.Archie Moore is not with us any longer.Carl's Baseball Inn is now a rescue mission for all the homeless that have taken over the neighborhood. The old Coliseum is a furniture warehouse.The ground is littered with trash,broken wine bottles ,and used needles.When I used to lend Archie Moore a hand at his boys club,I heard him mention "Shorty" Hogue. He said that "Shorty" hated to lose to him and would fight him tooth and nail.It was something personal thought Archie.The Hogues lived out in Jacumba.That's a one horse town about 60 miles east of San Diego. In those days the only road out that way was old Highway 80 that twisted and turned through the foothills until you got to the desert and finally Jacumba.

I'll never forget driving out to Jacumba for the first time. There was a big road sign as you started down the grade.It read"IMPEACH EARL WARREN." Maybe "Shorty" had something to do with that.

Image

Archie Moore
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Fury

His nickname was Tury which was short for his real first name,Arturo,but Arturo Pineda always brought so much heart into the ring with him they could have called him Fury. Aileen Eaton,the promoter and owner of the Olympic Auditorium,wouldn't broadcast the main event when the weekly fights were aired out of Los Angeles. We'd get to see the undercard and that was entertaining . We got to see the likes of Hedgemon Lewis,Mando Ramos,and Oscar Alborado hone their skills during their early development and those boys would whet our appetites for the bigger fights on their schedules. When the time came for those fellas' to step up in class,then Mrs. Eaton would showcase them,usually with a peer,that would guarantee a full house at her venue in downtown LA. Prior to the main event, Mrs. Eaton would advertise on live TV the following week's main go to the viewers.

One little battler was this whirlwind from below the border,Tury Pineda. He weighed in at 125 as did two other local talents,future Hall of Famers,Danny" Little Red" Lopez and Bobby Chacon. All three were rising through the division undefeated.I remember watching Tury Pineda on the tube on those Eaton undercards.Like the other two aforementioned, all three of their styles weren't exactly like the pitter patter of a Pretty Boy Floyd.Mexican fight enthusiasts wanted to see blood. I think it's in the DNA of their Spanish and Indian genes.

Witnessing the three fighters, just about everyone thought Pineda would have his hands full with Danny and Bobby.The first battle of the undefeateds was Tury against "Little Red".It was brutal.Danny was tall for a featherweight and could bring that right hand down the pipe. I remember Tury getting pummeled,but he gave it everything in an action packed fight that quenched the thirsts of the meat eaters.

Now the table was being set for a Lopez/Chacon war,but to make it more enticing,Tury was matched first with Bobby .Another free swinging affair(damn, those fights at the Olympic were something to watch!),Tury again on the short end.In my heart I wanted to see him win against one of those guys. In fact I loved all three of those fighters.(damn,what an era it was for West Coast Boxing!).

After those two losses,Tury now fell into the category of the fighter that had turned the corner and was going to be the set up guy even though his career wasn't that long. He moved up to lightweight.Beat a shell of a Mando Ramos,got a reprieve, and then ran into the undefeated Jimmy Heair.Now it was almost engraved in stone. With Tury's attitude of "I'll trade with anyone",his career headed into the tragic direction of the "stepping stone."He was taking too many shots and not getting the heavier guys out of there.This is when some' power to be" has to step in and say "it's over."But it went on like this.Pounding after pounding. Tury's demise finally came to an end in Tijuana against a fighter by the name of David Madrid. I saw that fight. I just now looked up Madrid's record when he fought Tury(3 wins against 6 losses).The aficianados got their taste of blood again.It seems that's all they want to see. S--t,they could always get that at a cock fight..Tury could only muster up a couple of rounds.

I don't know that there's much else to add,at least trying to salvage something from Tury's career as a fighter. Bobby Chacon is in an institution. Danny is having his problems. in the end,who wins?The fighter who ducked the glove of dementia?

Image

Tury Pineda
scartissue
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1893
Joined: 31 Mar 2002, 20:00

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by scartissue »

Rog, Tury Pineda really takes me back. I think he was the first fighter I saw when they started showing the Boxing from the Olympic telecasts in this part of the country. I will always remember the Battle of the Teeny-Boppers - Lopez and Pineda. Lopez at 10-0 (10) and Tury with 13-0 (11) going at it. Today they never would make matches like this or Lopez-Hafey or Pineda-Heair or Chacon-Olivares because as we all know once you have a loss on your record the career is over (tongue-in-cheek). It really says a lot about the depth of talent when the Olympic and the Forum would match local talent and local prospects with one another to a packed house time and time again.

Back to Pineda, he was such a blood and guts fighter. An intense left hook to body and head and not the strongest of jaws made every fight of his worthwhile to the fans. I was sweating bullets during Lopez-Pineda. I hadn't seen Lopez to this point. Just his record and every plaudit Jim Healy could muster. So I was backing Pineda. Lopez hurt Tury in the first but Pineda came storming back to take the second round big. They fought on even terms in the third back and forth and it was about even during the fourth when Lopez leveled him with a left hook. Wow! What a fight! And of course a Pineda fight wouldn't be the same without Hula Harry kabakoff making waves.

I always remember the last fight I saw Tury in. It was a 10 rounder against clubfighter Rafael Nunez. Tury was washed up by now and everyone knew it during this fight. He pulled back some magic briefly by decking Nunez, but Nunez won the other nine rounds. I recall Jimmy Lennon announcing the decision, but he truncated it from his usual diatribe by simply saying "the winner by unanimous decision, Rafael Nunez". Even Jim Healy applauded Lennon's tact by not announcing the specific scores of each official, which would have simply been embarrassing to the veteran.

Boxrec seems to have found 3 more fights attributed to Tury. The last time I looked at his record the Ernesto Gafias fight was his last. He must have looked roly-poly fighting at welterweight. I also see they added in when he passed. Jesus Pimental told me several years ago that Tury had died and now with the addition one can see he passed at the age of 48. Don't know anymore, but so, so young. He will never be mentioned with the greats of the game, but he brought pure action when he fought. Thanks for the memories on this one, Rog.
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

scartissue wrote:Rog, Tury Pineda really takes me back. I think he was the first fighter I saw when they started showing the Boxing from the Olympic telecasts in this part of the country. I will always remember the Battle of the Teeny-Boppers - Lopez and Pineda. Lopez at 10-0 (10) and Tury with 13-0 (11) going at it. Today they never would make matches like this or Lopez-Hafey or Pineda-Heair or Chacon-Olivares because as we all know once you have a loss on your record the career is over (tongue-in-cheek). It really says a lot about the depth of talent when the Olympic and the Forum would match local talent and local prospects with one another to a packed house time and time again.

Back to Pineda, he was such a blood and guts fighter. An intense left hook to body and head and not the strongest of jaws made every fight of his worthwhile to the fans. I was sweating bullets during Lopez-Pineda. I hadn't seen Lopez to this point. Just his record and every plaudit Jim Healy could muster. So I was backing Pineda. Lopez hurt Tury in the first but Pineda came storming back to take the second round big. They fought on even terms in the third back and forth and it was about even during the fourth when Lopez leveled him with a left hook. Wow! What a fight! And of course a Pineda fight wouldn't be the same without Hula Harry kabakoff making waves.

I always remember the last fight I saw Tury in. It was a 10 rounder against clubfighter Rafael Nunez. Tury was washed up by now and everyone knew it during this fight. He pulled back some magic briefly by decking Nunez, but Nunez won the other nine rounds. I recall Jimmy Lennon announcing the decision, but he truncated it from his usual diatribe by simply saying "the winner by unanimous decision, Rafael Nunez". Even Jim Healy applauded Lennon's tact by not announcing the specific scores of each official, which would have simply been embarrassing to the veteran.

Boxrec seems to have found 3 more fights attributed to Tury. The last time I looked at his record the Ernesto Gafias fight was his last. He must have looked roly-poly fighting at welterweight. I also see they added in when he passed. Jesus Pimental told me several years ago that Tury had died and now with the addition one can see he passed at the age of 48. Don't know anymore, but so, so young. He will never be mentioned with the greats of the game, but he brought pure action when he fought. Thanks for the memories on this one, Rog.

You're quite welcome.When I saw Pineda fight at the auditorium in TJ,I looked up the fight on the Boxrec records. I couldn't remember the guy he fought. Yes,Tury Pineda looked very soft and heavy that night. He was never in the fight.Often times when fighters are that far gone,they have a dazed expression.It's like they're sick or on something. You could have knocked him over with a feather.

BTW. Did you get connected with Windmill White?Keep up those great interviews.Rog :TU:
BoxBuzz
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 29847
Joined: 07 Jun 2005, 16:37

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by BoxBuzz »

Hello Dagos.....

I'm humbly wandering in with a few words of thanks for your ongoing valuable contributions.

I always look forward to reading them, and feel I ought to be paying some sort of subscription fee for the access.

However, I'm quite frugal....no check that , I'm dirt farmer cheap/poor. In fact I'm only one generation from a grandfather who actually was a sharecropper.

That said, I get a sense of what it may feel like to be an old fashioned, Cigar Chomping, Scotch/Bourbon sipping, gambling,newspaper readin', full fledged "tech free" old school "elitist", when I log in to read some of the pugilistic prose that you share here.


Sincere thanks.
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

BoxBuzz wrote:Hello Dagos.....

I'm humbly wandering in with a few words of thanks for your ongoing valuable contributions.

I always look forward to reading them, and feel I ought to be paying some sort of subscription fee for the access.

However, I'm quite frugal....no check that , I'm dirt farmer cheap/poor. In fact I'm only one generation from a grandfather who actually was a sharecropper.

That said, I get a sense of what it may feel like to be an old fashioned, Cigar Chomping, Scotch/Bourbon sipping, gambling,newspaper readin', full fledged "tech free" old school "elitist", when I log in to read some of the pugilistic prose that you share here.


Sincere thanks.
Thank you for those kind words.I appreciate you guys for letting me do something a little different. I don't want to try to be like those guys on ESPN and sit around on a panel and give their predictions, and then when it's over do the Monday night quarterbacking. In life you can make a case for anything. :TU:
yancey
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 2827
Joined: 16 Dec 2007, 18:26

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by yancey »

BoxBuzz wrote:Hello Dagos.....

I'm humbly wandering in with a few words of thanks for your ongoing valuable contributions.

I always look forward to reading them, and feel I ought to be paying some sort of subscription fee for the access.

However, I'm quite frugal....no check that , I'm dirt farmer cheap/poor. In fact I'm only one generation from a grandfather who actually was a sharecropper.

That said, I get a sense of what it may feel like to be an old fashioned, Cigar Chomping, Scotch/Bourbon sipping, gambling,newspaper readin', full fledged "tech free" old school "elitist", when I log in to read some of the pugilistic prose that you share here.


Sincere thanks.
x2. Really enjoy this thread. Some great stories and writing. Love the art.
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

yancey wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:Hello Dagos.....

I'm humbly wandering in with a few words of thanks for your ongoing valuable contributions.

I always look forward to reading them, and feel I ought to be paying some sort of subscription fee for the access.

However, I'm quite frugal....no check that , I'm dirt farmer cheap/poor. In fact I'm only one generation from a grandfather who actually was a sharecropper.

That said, I get a sense of what it may feel like to be an old fashioned, Cigar Chomping, Scotch/Bourbon sipping, gambling,newspaper readin', full fledged "tech free" old school "elitist", when I log in to read some of the pugilistic prose that you share here.


Sincere thanks.
x2. Really enjoy this thread. Some great stories and writing. Love the art.

Thanks Yancey.I've written a lot in the past 6 years.Awhile back I broke away for a couple of years and had some time to reflect. I think I'm better at it now. I don't go back and read anything .Sometimes when I Google my name I see some of my art.I'll click on and see that a certain painting pertained to a particular story.I might read a couple of lines to refresh my memory. :TU:
Post Reply