Classic American West Coast Boxing

Chuck1052
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 4282
Joined: 11 Dec 2003, 22:08

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Chuck1052 »

GregoliGranddaughter wrote:Hi Chuck, Thanks for the welcome, and wishing you the best in Arizona. I'm actually up in Ojai so you know it's just as hot as Arizona up here during the summer with high AC bills!

Interesting thing about Ojai: Most of the residents here have no clue about the town's legacy as a boxing training camp. Although I grew up in L.A. (Hollywood and the Valley), I knew about Ojai as "that place that Gramps sometimes took his fighters to train." He liked to get them away from the distractions of the city (or as he put it, "booze and broads." A far cry from the Don King scenario described above!). Gramps favored a place with a little altitude to really push their conditioning (reminds me of Abel Sanchez' Big Bear camp.) I saw, buried somewhere deep in this very long thread, a note from Hap Navarro about Gramps and Willie... and Ojai!

"Gregoli took him [Vaughn] up to Soper's Ranch to train for a serious test against the California 160 lb. champion, Charlie Green...."
Well Soper's Ranch is only about 3 miles from where I live! So in a way I've come full circle.

It is really too bad I didn't start this project of my family's boxing history sooner. I would have loved to chat with an old-timer like Hap. I'm sorry to hear he is no longer around. I will def. look up Don soon, thanks for the info, Dabosd2000. Love your portrait of Hap--in fact all your portraits and stories are so interesting! I was very sad to hear of Willie's passing several years back as I would have liked to meet him, too. I heard so many stories growing up. Willie was like a son to my grandfather, and it broke his heart when Willie made the choice he did. Gramps knew it wouldn't go well for him, and from what I heard it pretty much tanked his career. Gramps never got over it, and I guess Willie regretted it because every once in a while Mom would get a call from him, very emotional, and he'd ask her to tell Gramps to forgive him. It made her so sad, and it was a touchy subject in my family. My aunt is still living, and has fond memories of when Willie started to work and train with Gramps. She said he was really very young at the time, and also she remembers him as very sweet and always so polite. Mom and my aunt became good friends with him--Auntie says she used to teach him how to improve his reading!

I am a writer professionally (I even did a sports project for ESPN once!), and it's been in the back of my mind to perhaps use some of this real-life drama as the basis for a story one day. We shall see. In the meantime, I appreciate reading all this great info and reminiscences everyone has shared over the years. Thank you and keep it up!
Sorry that I didn't reply to this post earlier. I lived in the Paseo Del Mar complex area, which is located in the Ventura Avenue area on the west side of Ventura, for 23 years. That is about fifteen miles from Ojai on Highway 33. I know a bit about Pop Soper's training camp that was in the Ojai area and once saw an exhibition about the camp put on by the Ojai Historical Society about fifteen years ago.

- Chuck Johnston
RalphyBoy
Lightweight
Posts: 1
Joined: 01 Sep 2017, 19:49

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by RalphyBoy »

Hello gentlemen, I have a history question and I hope somebody might have some ideas as to where I could search:

Does anyone have any records of Charlie Wells, ring name for Cortland Linder, a California boxer in the early 1930's, who was my father. Attended UC Berkeley for a year and then dropped out for money reasons. Apparently he won 18 fights before becoming a professional musician. From Tracy, CA.

Any help appreciated, thanks.

Ralph
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

An American In London

I've flown across the pond to England a few times and enjoyed every minute of it.Most of my stays are in London and they tell me that if I want to get a more authentic slant on things I should explore outside of the city. Someday I hope to do that,but the few times I've been to London,I've always said that when I come back,I'll find a place to stay in London again. Now don't get me wrong. I don't want to give the impression that I could give someone the cook's tour of the city. I do the tourist things.Been to the Tower of London,rode across the Tower Bridge,seen the view from the Eye,visited Westminster Abbey and Buckingham Palace,St. Pauls,the National Gallery,looked up at Lord Nelson at Trafalgar Square,enjoyed the night life in Soho.I know there's more "to dos" on my list and I hope to eventually cross them off. But I'll never forget one week I stayed in the section of London they refer to as St. Pauls or The City. My wife and granddaughter and I were staying in a very nice hotel a stone's throw away from St. Pauls Cathedral.Well,my wife and granddaughter always like to walk around and shop when we travel,but that doesn't put wind in my sails. I like to get out on my own,walk around,and discover things. See how the people are if you know what I mean. I want to blend in if possible. I don't want anyone to notice that I'm a tourist.

I decided to walk a few blocks down from the hotel while my wife and granddaughter decided what trinkets they wanted to buy to take home and hand out as gifts.That ain't for me. I'll find a shirt for someone at the airport. As I entered the walkways of cobblestone streets(they weren't really cobblestone),my imagination triggered thoughts of my impressions of old London town. Most of my prior experience with these impressions of London have been from reading books(H.G. Wells is a favorite)and the motion pictures(give me a good Sherlock Holmes with Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce and I'm spellbound). But I know that's a very thin veneer of covering all the meat that's inside.No. I need to go somewhere unassuming,a common place where the average Londoner goes.As I was thinking,there it was right in front of me-an English pub.Painted gold and black. It was beautiful.Small,quant,old Engklish looking,jutting out, standing on an island carved out and erect between two cobblestone streets.And resting at the doorstep -a shaggy little Scotty dog. I thought maybe this was all set up just for me.

It was after working hours and people were disembarking the underground,dressed in their modest suits and business attire,briefcases in hand,either going inside or settling down around small round tables outside of these little the pubs that were scattered throughout the maze of cobblestone streets. The pub in front of my eyes had an sign painted in old English lettering that read"The Cockpit."Above the door was the word "Courage." Potted plants hung outside adorning the windows .The door ,I could see, was narrow.As I approached to enter,I could see the Scotty dog wasn't going to get out of the way for me.Inside was sufficiently lit,wood tables in the corners and one larger one in the middle of the room with chairs all around. More comfortable easy chairs were against the walls. The papers were hanging on racks for people to take out and spread in front of them to catch up on the day's events.There were standing lamps and table lamps with low watt bulbs covered by modest shades .Flowered wallpaper with bright colors covered the walls. A print of an 18th century cock fight along with some sepia pictures of horses and flowers in small wood frames mildly accented the room. The bar was short with a few bar stools in front.An array of beer spigots popped up from behind the counter and there was every kind of bottle of liquor stacked neatly on shelves behind the bar. People just off from work were filtering in.I decided to order something at the bar and take it back to one of those soft easy chairs. The bartender was an older guy with most of his white hair gone,a fleshy pinkish face ,bulbous reddish nose with a few hairs sticking out from his nostrils,green bloodshot eyes ,and a husky handlebar mustache that needed a trim. His shirt sleeves were rolled up and he wore a heavy good looking watch with a leather band on his wrist. As he was drawing a beer from one of the big spigots,he straightened up a bit and gave me a look.
"What can I get for ya'?"he said in a nasal tone.
"Look."I answered."I'm a Yank and I'm not into beer that is room temperature. What do you have that is cold and light color like American beer?"
"Carling is cold and light."
"Then give me one of those."
As he was drawing the beer he rounded the glass off putting a nice head on it.
"You here on a holiday?"he asked topping the glass off like he'd done that a million times before.
"Yes.I'm here with my family. I'm staying at a hotel next to St. Pauls."
"Where are you from?"
"California. San Diego to be precise."
"Well we can't all be perfect,"he said without changing expression.
He put the glass of beer down on a coaster in front of me. I sat down on one of the barstools.
"How long you here for?"
"Just a week.We came over from Spain. My granddaughter is a Flamenco dancer."
"Don't have much of that here,"he said as he put his damp hands on the bar. His hands were big,but soft. His nails were trimmed and clean.
"Are you into sports?"I asked.
"I like the Hotspurs,but they haven't shown much in years."
"I enjoy the game of soccer,especially when I come to Europe,"I said honestly trying to make a connection.
"You mean'football'.I believe you Yanks call your game 'football',but that's not really football."
"I have to remember to call it 'football' when I'm here."
The bartender pulled a cloth from his shirt and wiped his brow.
"I like boxing. England has a heavyweight champ now. This Lewis kid," said still groping.
"He's Canadian.We wanted Bruno to beat him,but I've got to admit that Lewis is a better man. He'll grow on us."
"You think he can beat Tyson?"
"I think so. Tyson gets more of the publicity.i think that will motivate Lewis."
I could see the perspiration on his face.
"London usually doesn't have this kind of heat."said the bartender.
"Do you remember Henry Cooper?"I asked him.
The old guy gave a little chuckle.The first time I saw him lighten up a little.
"Why of course.We'll always remember when he knocked Ali on his arse."
"If Dundee hadn't have slit Ali's glove and the knockdown would have happened at the beginning of the round...who knows?"I said trying to reach out.
"Come on Yank,"he said gruffly."You don't believe that do you?"
"No. I guess I don't,"I answered meekly.
"We didn't take it too hard. We're kind of accustomed to losing. It gives us an opportunity to show how good sports we are,"he remarked with a laugh.
"You know when the ref stopped the fight with Ol' Henery bleeding all over the place and Ol' Henery giving it a kick.Sure he was disappointed,but he was a good sport about it all," I said getting a little emotional.
"That was Cooper.A real gentleman."
"He'll always have a place in my heart.After that fight he won me over."
The bartender drew me another draft. I started to pull my money out.
"It's on me mate,"he said. "Welcome to England."
The bartender went over to some people sitting at the other end of the bar. I found a nice soft easy chair with a little table next to it.An elderly woman sat down at a table across from were I was sitting.She had on a pair of horn rimmed glasses.Her thin brown hair was parted down the middle.She wore a plain tan dress and brown shoes.Her face was kind and simple. Very little make up. She looked older than she probably was. Her voice was light and her eyes a soft brown. She sat with her hands folded on her lap.
"I heard you talking,"she said."You're from America?"
"Yes I am."
"On holiday?"
"Yes."
She went on to tell me about her son ,that was her only child ,was living in Philadelphia and was studying at a music conservatory and wanted to eventually play with the Philadelphia Orchestra.She told me she worked as a clerk for a barrister and that she rode the tube everyday and after work would come to the pub and share her day's experiences with her friends. That evening I was her friend.i asked if I could buy her a drink,but she said that she only would drink a glass of sherry after finishing work and then go to her flat to watch her favorite English soap operas.The sun was setting and the bartender began shutting off the lights.
"I guess he's closing up,"I said. "I was just getting started."
"Well, if you're looking to stay up late you'll have to go to Covent Garden,but that's quite far from here,"she said as she picked up her things to leave.

I got up too and made my way past the immovable Scotty dog. As the night became darker,I thought i'd meander around before returning to the hotel.All the pubs were closing down for the day. The stores were all shut. The streets turned in no particular pattern. I walked kind of aimlessly.I was thinking about what London was really like,but I could only draw from my impressions that I'd seen in the United States. But as I looked from side to side I felt very comfortable. This was how I imagined it would be. The cobblestone streets. The fog would be coming in. There would be old Winnie,the Queen passing by soon.We were cousins,the English and Americans. We spoke the same language.They were our allies.I felt at home.The similarities were obvious.England would always be our best friend.

As I continued my walk ,not having any idea where I was nor did I care,i saw a dark figure of a man walking towards me..He was wearing a long coat and had a fedora pulled down over his eyes. I stepped to the side to let him pass,but he shadowed my steps so that he was in front of me when we met. I stopped and looked at him. He lifted his face. It was shady and secretive and he wore a beard. He reached inside his coat. I stepped up to him closer,real close,clenched my hands into tight fists and looked into his eyes. He lowered his head and started to move. I kept my ground. He walked around me. I never took my eyes off him as he continued down the street. As he disappeared ,I let out a breath of relief.

I continued walking,but now I was trying to find my way back to the hotel. As I briskly paced, I saw a sign above a shop door. It read."Ye Old London Barber Shoppe."I stopped and peered through the window. There was one barber's chair,an old one.A white towel folded neatly over the chair's arm,a razor strop hanging down from the other arm. In back of the chair were shaving mugs and straight razors inside a glass all set on a table. A large mirror hung on the wall above the the chair. I could see a picture of an image inside a large frame beside the mirror. I squinted real hard to see who it was.Maybe it was old Winnie.Maybe a king,a famous general like Montgomery or Montbatten.Maybe it was Henry Cooper or even Lennox Lewis.A Beatle?Finally,my eyes adjusted.The image was coming in.Yes,I could see it clearly now. It was John Wayne! I laughed a little and shook my head. See,I told you England is our best friend.

https://imgur.com/2jXwOks

The Cockpit Pub. I don't know who those people are,but the faces seem familiar



https://imgur.com/DVDPiih

Inside a nice place to end the day






https://imgur.com/8tKSsAE

Muhammad Ali
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Namesake

Where I taught school down in the Sweetwater Union School District by the border,I'd say all the custodial people and landscape crews were Mexicans.There was a head custodian and ,depending on the size of the school,one or two daytime custodians,a night custodian,and a landscape man.It was always the same scenario. All the guys under the head custodian,including the landscaper, hated the head custodian's guts. I got along with all of them though. They knew my wife was Mexican and that I had taught school in Tijuana,and that me and the wife had a house built in her home town in Michoacan. All the crew under the head custodian would gripe to me that their boss was a "carbon" and the head custodian would complain to me that the guys under him wouldn't follow orders.I never took sides. I knew the problem was more of a cultural thing than who was in the right. Here's the kicker though. When the head custodian would leave,for whatever reason,then one of the underlings would get promoted and assume his spot. Then the pattern would continue. Now the former underling was the boss and all the guys under him hated HIS guts. For no rhyme nor reason,they just hated his guts.Latin men don't take particular interest taking orders from one of their own.

However I was at one school where this stupid play wasn't acted out. The head custodian at Mar Vista Middle School was an guy named Jorge. A short older man with a few more years to go before his retirement. He opened the campus up at 5 in the morning every morning. He got right to work. His thick black hair was combed straight back.A beakish nose protruded over a finely trimmed mustache. He had that soft skin that is common with people of Indian blood and he,like so many elderly Mexican men,let his paunch hang over his belt line.They are proud of that.His khaki pants drooped down besides his work boots.His brown eyes were serious and he went about his work in an orderly fashion.He didn't pause to chew the fat with anyone for too long a time. He kept moving.He had a steady pace. He knew what his duties were every day. When he'd get called by the front office to take care of an emergency like someone getting sick in class and throwing up and he having to mop up the mess,he never grumbled.But the thing that rose above it all was that Jorge had the respect of his crew. He never said anything bad about them even when one of them screwed up. And I never heard his men bum rap him. With the relationship like it was,it was one less problem the principal would have to concern himself with. Things ran smoothly. When there was a lot of work to do and to be finished in a short time,Jorge would give direction and work shoulder to shoulder with his guys.

I think there were several factors that resulted with this harmony. Jorge was a religious man. He was a born again Christian. He told me he fell to the way of the flesh.He belonged to a small congregation in the South Bay area. He said that he and his American wife would read from the bible every morning before he went to work.His wife,he told me ,had suffered a stroke some time back,and that she needed to use a walker. He told me he had a son,who I would imagine was in his 20's,that still lived at home. Jorge told me the boy had some learning difficulties.

But Jorge wasn't one of those guys who preached at you.He didn't try to convert anybody. He never annoyed anyone with that. His actions conveyed his faith. He was humble and unassuming.I don't think I ever heard anyone say anything negative about him nor did I ever hear Jorge talk under his breath about an injustice done to him. Jorge and I retired together after the same school year.There was another teacher and a clerk that retired with us also. The final day of the year,the faculty and administration gave us a lunch in the cafeteria.

I think I was the closer to Jorge than anyone else on campus. The bond that drew us together was boxing. Jorge was one of those old aficianados that grew up with the legends of Mexican boxing.He knew the history of the sport. He went to just about every card in Tijuana and San Diego. Sometimes I'd eat lunch with him in the custodian's room.One afternoon ,as he was unwrapping his sandwich from his lunch bag ,he was talking to me across the work bench about his son.
"My son is applying at the district to be a custodian,"he said with his very warm tone of voice.
"I hope he gets the job,"I said.
"He has to take a test.My wife and I worry about that."
"He should do fine,"I said wanting to reassure him.
"He gets nervous about taking tests,"said Jorge.
"What's you son's name?"I asked.
"Ultiminio."
"Like the fighter?"
"Yes.I named him after Sugar Ramos."
"You were a fan of Ramos?"
"Yes. I felt bad when Davey Moore died after their fight. Ramos was a gentleman. He felt cursed.That was the second fighter that had died after fighting him."
"Didn't he experience bouts of depression after that?"I asked.
"He sought help with the psychiatrist and the church. He struggled with that emotionally and spiritually."
"There are some fighters that that doesn't bother them."
"I know if that had happened to me,I'd be asking God why and what am I to learn from this,"he said.
"I guess you'll never know what's that's like until it happens to you."
Jorge had eaten half of his sandwich and put the rest inside the paper bag. I wanted to change the mood.
"Tell me Jorge.Did your son take to being called Ultiminio?"
Jorge broke into a smile.
"Well it sure beats being called Sugar."


https://imgur.com/hPsNDqR

Ultiminio "Sugar" Ramos. RIP Champ :salut:
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

A Fly In The Chocolate

Last year I drove up to the LA Forum to watch Roman Gonzalez fight the Mexican,Carlos Cuadras,for the his super flyweight championship.For me,it was a spur of the moment thing. I'd seen some of "Chocolatito" Gonzalez's fights on Youtube.He looked very impressive. Here was a kid who was undefeated in the amateurs,hadn't lost in the pros,won the flyweight title,and showed all the skills necessary to stay on top for a very long time.You know by now how I feel about lists,but when I'd take a peek at the Boxrec P4P rankings,I thought this Nicararaguan whirlwind should have been at the top of that mythical roster.He was a consummate fighter.Defense,offense,hit with power,took a good punch,tremendous condition.He didn't rely on one super talent like unbelievable speed like a Ali or a Roy Jones ,or awesome power like a Foreman or a Tyson to make it look easy. He had all the goods to employ, if needed,to keep his win streak going.

The fight up in Inglewood at the Forum was different than the fights that I had witnessed inside,what Chick Hearn called"a sports theater".The structure was showing its age. In fact the whole neighborhood had seen better days.Saying that,I guess, was putting it nicely.Once home to the LA Lakers and the hockey Kings,all the big Parnassus fights;the Fabulous Forum,the "sports theater" ,was passe.Again I'm being nice. Next to the Forum was Hollywood Park.The racetrack finally closed.People were getting robbed(sometimes killed)walking back to their cars in the parking lot.This kind of bad behavior was a microcosm of what was taking place outside the gates. Once they broke ground for the Staples Center,the Forum turned into a white elephant.The only events were of a minor variety where the rent was less expensive than the Staples Center. But once in awhile they'd cast a fight in the "sports theater." Roman Gonzalez and Carlos Cuadras wouldn't be acting.

I bought a ticket at the door.I sat up in the rafters. There was no sellout. I thought Cuadras,being a Mexican national and having a belt would have the crowd with him. I'd say it was 50/50. I remember when Chucho Castillo fought Lionel Rose and came up short on a decision. That was a real life duck and cover drill. Me and my pals didn't stick around to admire the destruction derby.That night when Chocolatito won from Cuadras,I didn't feel the hysteria .There was enthusiasm ,but I wasn't on the edge of my seat. It was a good fight. Gonzalez moved up four pounds to try to win a second title. He was proficient,he executed proficiently.He was efficient.The better fighter.But this Cuadras was game,awkward,a bit crude,but tough and game. In fact I thought that Cuadras had more in the tank in the end than Roman.But it was a clear cut win for the kid whose hero was Alexis Arguello

Gonzalez's first defense was against some guy with a name that was being beat back and forth on what his name is. I'll call the guy what the Boxrec has him listed as:Wangek.Now I'll level with you.I'm not up too much on what's happening in those divisions where the fighters weigh less than my wife.Where their heads are below the top ring rope. But that's not taking away anything from these guys. These boys usually display more action than some of the heavyweights who weigh more than my wife and four kids all put together.

But Chocalatito's win over Cuadras brought the promoters eyes down to street level and take notice of this little guy. Next thing we know he's in the headliner at the Garden.Triple G is in the semi main. I'm thinking now the rest of the world will take notice of what Roman Gonzalez can offer to the aficianados. But Roman laid an egg that night. If you had never seen him fight before,you'd be asking what all the fuss was about. The judges scored it a lot closer than it was. This Wangek was tall and stronger,rough around the edges,but he treated Gonzalez rougher.Wangek threw a wicked left hook that kept Roman at improper distance.Maybe it was the Thai's southpaw stance that also played into it,but Gonzalez was a 180 from what he had shown the boxing world in days before.He never landed a telling blow. He was running with his punches.He looked bad and he knew it. At the end of 12,his swollen bloody face was the evidence. A real shocker.

This weekend the two are back together,this time in los Angeles for the rematch. I don't have my finger on the pulse on what the fans think about the outcome,but I'm picking Wangek to win again. I just think he's got Chocolatito's number.It's happened before:the seemingly invincible fighter losing to a fighter who that shouldn't pose a problem. But when that happens,the invincible guy usually gets his pound of flesh in the rematch. That's usually the case.But thumbing through the pages of the record books,we see the times like "Terrible" Terry McGovern looking terrible against a Young Corbett II,and looking even worse in the rematch.Then there was "Hammerin'" Henry Armstrong getting hammered by Fritzie Zivic's uppercuts and hooks.Ditto in the second go.I'll never forget how perplexed I felt after Fighting Harada outfought Eder Jofre. The Japanese fighter blew a divine wind on the Brasilean again the next time they got together.

So that's how I see it.Wangek keeps his title. It'll be a hell of a battle,but I think Wangek's got his number.

https://imgur.com/YIwKSOV

"Chocolatito"
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Aw Shucks

Don't like to read my posts once I'm done with them. I'll quickly edit if I feel I need to change something,but when I'm finished,I'll wait till I get the urge to write something else.But something I couldn't get out of my mind about yesterday's prediction of the Gonzalez/Wangek fight this weekend. I said "I'm not up too much on those divisions where the fighters weigh less than my wife."That's how I put my foot in my mouth trying to make a "funny." Maybe today I'm not up to speed on what's going on with boxing aside from the blue chip fighters,but I cut my teeth on the little guys:Olivares,Little Red,Bobby,Mando,Art Hafey,Sandoval,Davila;and these were just some of the local guys. Eder Jofre,Vicente Saldivar,Ismael Laguna,Pintor,Sal Sanchez,and all those terrific Mexican bantams and featherweights that filled the venues in Los Angeles,San Diego,and Tijuana. It would be a fruitless task to fill the Classic West Coast Boxing thread without describing these gritty pugilists. I see some of them at the annual boxing events held in LA mostly. Some of the fighters still reside in the area.It's great to see them and get to striking up a conversation.

So if you're guessing my wife's weight,let's say she wouldn't be able to get on the scales and be ready to fight "Gato" Gonzalez. She'd have to eat a lot more of her Mexican cooking. :lol:

https://imgur.com/9bBvA3B

Bobby Chacon. How could you not feel for this guy? Excuse me while I try to pry my big foot from my mouth.
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Taking A Little Off The Top

Just off the top of my head.Forgot to put this tough guy on my list of Southland fighters that kept me on the edge of my seat-Frankie Crawford. Was a staple at the Olympic Auditorium.He threw everything at you and the kitchen sink,all the dishes and pots and pans. If you look up the expression "self destruction" in the dictionary ,you'll see a picture of Frankie next to the definition. Rick Farris tells a great story about Crawford when they were training together in Los Angeles. Rick said he was giving Crawford a lift home after a workout at the Main Street Gym. Crawford was one of those sketchy types who you never knew when he was going to "flip the switch." Rick told me that as he was driving, Crawford lets out a scream and demands that Rick pull into the nearest gas station. Well,there ain't one in sight and Frankie is about ready to blow a gasket.Rick thinks that Crawford is going to grab the wheel or grab him by the throat if a gas station doesn't come into view real soon.Finally,they see a gas station on the corner.
"Pull in there now g-- damn it!"yells the Irishman.
"Ok Frankie.Hold tight,but I don't need any gas."(Rick thought that Crawford had to use the restroom.)
"I don't care about that!,"snapped Crawford,"I got to pay my gas bill!"
Frankie got out of the car and hit the circuit breaker and then calmed down.
Rick never gave Frankie a ride home again.

Speaking of driving. The word was out around the gym that if you got in a car with Archie Moore,you better have plenty of life insurance and a crash helmet. Arch only knew one speed:pedal to the metal.I never shared the experience of riding with him,but the guys would say if he offers you a ride,tell him that you get car sick riding shotgun.

Watch the Mike DeJohn/Charley Powell fight. It took place in Mike's back yard Syracuse,New York. Another dictionary task:look up the definition of a "fixed fight".You'll see the the youtube link next to the explanation.

One time I crossed the border to watch the fights at Tijuana's Municipal Auditorium. I think Ruben Olivares was on the card.It was a time when he was putting everybody to sleep wanting to eventually to get into the ring with Lionel Rose.Well,I 've seen this before.One time at the train station in Mexicali.I had to take a dump so I go inside the bathroom that's right inside the front door. I look inside and there're turds all over the floor. Think of "tip toe through the tulips" and use your imagination. I want to say the plumbing went out,but maybe the plumbing didn't go out. No one ,like a custodian,went inside to scoop up the mess. It just piled up there -a mountain of dung. Now get my drift with this. There's a paradigm shift.I'm certain the fellas' that went in that bathroom to squat thought that was a "cool thing" to do.They probably laughed all the way back to their seats.The thing was though, there was no toilet paper in the stalls.I guess it wasn't so funny having to sit next to one of these morons.


https://imgur.com/sRmDSRi

Frankie Crawford
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Uncle Lee

Before I began this piece,I looked up Lee Ramage's record in the Boxrec files and again watched on YouTube the second fight he had with Joe Louis.In the comments column under the video,i noticed a lot of words from relatives of Lee Ramage.:nephews,2nd cousins,and other close and distant relationships.They all spoke very highly of the man-a man's man and a heck of a guy. I concur. I met Lee Ramage several times when I was a kid. The first time was in 1959.i was 12 years old.I remember the first day of my 7th grade homeroom class. We all had jumped up to the junior high school level and were a bit apprehensive. We were only 7th graders.The 8th and 9th graders were intimidatuing. At that age a couple of years difference was a lot. I remember our first period homeroom English teacher(for some reason the homeroom class was an English class)taking the roll for the first time.I also recall all the English teachers being old ladies,but let me tell ya', these gals knew their subject. I think all they did all day ,besides teaching English,was read books. Anyway, the roll call was supposed to be pretty mundane:call your name and say "Here". Well ,Mrs. Messick was gong down her list and everything was running smoothly. Then she calls out "Mike Ramage."Next thing you know this kid(and I'm going to refer to him as a 'kid' even though if he's still with us he's walked on this planet for 70 years)stands uo ,salutes,and says "Present." Of course that got a chuckle out of us up to then nervous 7th graders.Mrs. Messick,all very prim and proper,looked over her spectacles and said,"You don't have to do that.Just sit in your seat and say,'Here.' "

Everyone in that homeroom class had gone to one of the three grammar schools in the area. We all knew each other more or less. We'd played in the same Little League or gotten acquainted at the matinees at the Strand Theater or enjoyed our summers at Belmont Park at the roller coaster or played in the surf during the summer at Ocean Beach. We were, if nothing else,familar with each other. As young boys we had played baseball together,gone to school together, and even once in awhile settled our differences with our fists.Mike Ramage never did any of that,at least not with us. He was a stranger and he didn't seem to want to acclimate himself with the others.In PE class I remember he looked like a stork when he ran,couldn't dribble a basketball,and threw a baseball like a girl.Some of the guys teased him because he was gaunt and gawky .He was a sissy. He had blond hair sheared into a crew cut. Wore horn rimmed glasses.His face was plain and not expressive. His skin was pale,his lips thin,and his green eyes could never focus on anything. His voice was meek and he never offered much to say.I never heard him give an opinion on anything. I think he tried to stay invisible.That way he had a chance to avoid being harassed.

But I was one of those kids that was more of the "everyman"(kid)type.Sure,I liked sports and going nuts over girls.I had my share of fights. I think I had more wins than losses. I was popular and liked to show off. But there was another side to me. I played in the school orchestra(I was a last chair cellist. I had these small hands).I got hooked on classical music.In those days the great orchestras of the world would perform in San Diego.I remember seeing The Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam with Van Beinum conducting.(Later,they removed the 'Royal' from the name) Then I looked into jazz while my pals were zoned in on "Top 40."I read a lot of books,fiction and non. I enjoyed going to the Old Globe Theater and the main library downtown.I played chess.Mike Ramage liked doing these things also. So with these common interests ,we became friends.My buddies never said nothing to me about palling around with Mike. I could always do my good ol' American kid schtick with them.

Talking with Mike,I found out that his dad was killed very late in the War.His mother was pregnant with Mike when her vhusband was killed so Mike never knew his dad.I'd go over to his house once in awhile. I don't remember ever seeing any other siblings,but I remember his mom. She was a very reserved, handsome and beautiful woman. She had an air that exuded intelligence.She was always dressed elegantly.She had a grace that told you that this was a serious lady you didn't want to act like an idiot in front of. When she was with her son,i could tell she was very concerned about him,but didn't want to project anxiety on him.She had the maturity to not share her angst with her son. She must have worried about him day and night.

Mike's mother sent him to Brown Military Academy in Pacific Beach. (This is why Mike stood up when roll was being taken).I think she consulted Mike's uncle with this idea, or maybe it was his suggestion., Mike's uncle,her brother in law,was Lee Ramage. I visited Mike at his uncle's house a few times. He was a native Californian,served in the Navy,and of course, was noted for fighting the great Joe louis twice.At that time I had a vague idea of Lee Ramage's two encounters with The Brown Bomber.Uncle Lee did most of his pro fighting on the West Coast. He was a common sight at the Olympic Auditorium and the San Diego Coliseum.They matched him with a young tiger named Joe Louis in Chicago,but instead of Joe blasting him out in a bum of the month scenario,Ramage enacted an early Billy Conn impression and out boxed Louis for seven rounds.In the eighth Joe caught up with him.Wanting to see if Ramage had the goods, they put them together again this time in old Wrigley Field in LA. Joe put him to sleep in two.

When I went to visit Mike at his uncle Lee's house,I saw an old veteran,a man of war where he saw real ammo coming at him and a fighter where Joe Louis throwing his bombs at his chin. He had the fighter's nose and the scar tissue around his eyes. He was a tough guy,but a civil man.He looked like he could still wallop you a good one.He was jolly ,but didn't act a fool.He talked to me a little about Joe Louis. I think he was proud to bein the same ring with the man.He knew he was up against it,but gave no quarter.Nothing to be ashamed about. But looking back on it now,I think what Lee Ramage liked about me was that I was Mike's friend. A new friend.A pal that his nephew could laugh with,share common likes, and just have a good time.Uncle Lee always made me feel at home when I came over. I know Mike's mom must have felt the same way.


https://imgur.com/aFw0OhS

Lee Ramage
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

El Grito De Las Vegas

This might be the greatest fight in Mexican history. I say that because Mexico has never had a fighter who has the resume and THE POUNDS going against another marquis battler with equal credentials and of equal physical dimensions.It's Canelo Alvarez's weight that separates this fight with Golovkin, against similar epic fights, where the Mexican national is putting it all on the table.This fight ,on Mexican Independence Day,represents something on the scale like if the Mexican national soccer team was in the World Cup Final.But what's going to unfold in Las Vegas isn't a team game where the fellas' are kicking a ball around on the pitch. This is one on one. Man against man. A microcosm of who is the "baddest" middleweight on the planet.I'll cross the border again for this one and find a nice comfy booth inside The Burro Bar.

Mexican legends like Olivares,Sanchez,and Chavez were smaller men than Canelo.When Sanchez fought Gomez, that was a fight where all of Mexico focused their attention,but that was a lightweight bout. Julio Cesar Chavez stepped into the ring with Meldrick Taylor and was lucky to have Richard Steele as the third man in the ring.(I'm glad it turned out that way). That fight put Julio with the immortals of Mexican boxing lore. His next great challenge was with Sweet Pea. Papa got away with kissing his sister that night. He should have kissed the judges, though, who thought he deserved the draw,but both men weighed in the welterweight area. I remember when"Pulgarcito" fought Joltin' Joe in the Garden for a NY version of a heavyweight title,but I don't think anyone south of the Rio Grande believed that big Manual could pull it off.(If Manny could have followed up with that left that landed on Joe's chin and miraculously won,he could have stood beside Pancho Villa and then steal his horse AND his wife) When Vicente Saldivar fell in four against the great Jofre,the once durable Mexican was reduced to tissue paper . The result was sad,but expected.

Now it's sink or swim time with Saul Alvarez. They've been trying to put this fight together for years. A lot of good fighters haven't stepped into the ring with Triple G.There was a time that people were tiring with thinking that this fight would ever come off.Canelo is a legit middleweight. He's the biggest fightin' Mexican that has been showcased with another opponent of equal stature. When Canelo fought Julio junior,it was a very big fight with the aficianados,but they knew the greater fight would be with the victor then fighting Golovkin. That would settle a lot of things,not only who was the best pugilist,but if the Mexican got his arm raised at the end,there wouldn't be another Aztec legend who could share the pedestal with him.

Mexican fans love their fighters to be killers. Power in your fists is more macho than dancing around the ring displaying defensive skills. Maybe Canelo needs to think of using some defense techniques with this Russian. I've never watched one of Triple G's fights from beginning to end,but he's,if nothing else,a bruiser. He clubs opponents into unconsciousness. The way you beat a guy like that is if you're the stronger animal and can beat him at his own game,or if you're not, rely on using your boxing skills.I don't know if Canelo can out box 3G. I don't think Canelo could survive trading with him in the center of the ring or any other space between the ring posts. But let's face it,that's what we want to see-a war.I can't see it any other way. But I feel in the pit of my gut: Caneo's pride steps up to forefront,he's gong to want to slug it out. It's the Mexican killer way. It's Pancho Villa riding his horse Siete Legaus,charging with his Dorados into the machine blasts of the Federales. Canelo puts his manhood and his country to the test with all the coraje he can draw from inside. I can see myself screaming and crying with everyone else in. God forbid if this fight lays an egg. I don't want to go home saying to myself that instead of going to the Burro Bar,i should have watched the Donkey Show.

https://imgur.com/pJhCcDo

Gennady Golovkin
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Taking A Little Off The Top

Just off the top of my head.Yesterday I forgot to include the Tommy Hearns/Pipino Cuevas fight having a paramount interest in Mexico. Cuevas fit the Mexican mantra of being an indestructible force. They say he began fighting when he was 14. He was up and down,but eventually got on a roll culminating with winning the WBA welterweight title. He was busting up opponents pretty good breaking the other guy's jaw in two of his title fights. There was a story going around that Cuevas was riding in the passenger side of a car when the driver hit a telephone pole going 50 miles per hour.Pipino's cabeza crashed through the windshield. After the smoke settled,Pipino tucked in his shirt,wiped his face off, and walked away from the scene of the accident unscathed. The aficianados devoured that up like a big bowl of menudo after an all night party. Adding to his allure was his stoicism.Pipino never showed any emotion. There were no celebrations in the ring. He was a silent killer,his fury bottled up inside until he would unleash it in the ring.Moving in with straight forward determination,punches bouncing off his armor,until he finally broke his adversary's will bludgeoning him into submission. They made up a song about him in Mexico,"Pipino Es Mi Campeon." The Mexican guy who I worked with in the warehouse would laugh and pound his chest and predict that"Pipno could beat Ali." But there was a hurdle in front of Pipino Cuevas,a very tall hurdle furnished with talent-Tommy Hearns. Mexico held their breath.Pipino threw his big gauncho,missed,Tommy countered with his big overhand right,and Cuevas was momentarily suspended in air and then hit the canvas nose first. They took Pipino's song out of the jukebox.

There's no donkey show in Tijuana. There used to be one of those bizarre degradations in Tijuana when World War II was going on. The servicemen based in San Diego certainly wouldn't find a donkey show or ,anything similar,stateside. If you're familiar with jazz,Horace Silver,the pianist,wrote a song that became a jazz standard-Juicy Lucy. Juicy Lucy was the tragic soul that used to stride the animal in that putrid bar in Tijuana. I believe there's donkey show in Nuevo Laredo,Mexico right across the border from Laredo,Texas. The world is what it is.

I saw Julio Cesar Chavez train at the CREA getting ready for his fight with Danilo Cabrera at the Caliente Race Track. Chavez was a very hard worker in the gym,but I never saw him punch the speed bag. I was told that he didn't know how,thus kept that out of his regimen.

Last night's fight between Canelo and Triple G left a bad taste in my mouth.I wonder if Adalaide Byrd's scorecard urged a lot of" angry white guys" out of the ground?
https://imgur.com/aXtyOJr

Pipino Cuevas
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

A Wag Of The Finger

I looked for the waiter that was at the Burro Bar the last time I was there when I watched the Mayweather/McGregor fight but I didn't see him. I thought that might mean a bad omen or something because he seemed like a real amiable sort when we got to talking,but I found out fast enough that he was overcharging me a dollar a beer when the short fat waitress brought me over a bottle of Tecate and set it down in front of me at a booth I was sitting in that was next to the jukebox.She was dressed up like a "Maria in a colorful long green skirt and a white blouse with red and green ruffles. Her hair was in pig tails.Her belly hung over the apron that was tied around her waist.Big plastic red and green shower ring size earrings dangled from her fleshy lobes. A happy brown doughy face with glistening brown eyes set off her demeanor. Ruby red lipstick was caked on thick on her wide full mouth.It was Mexican Independence Day and she dressed the part. I asked how much the beer was and she answered 25 pesos.So the waiter that I got to be friendly with the last time was dinging me a dollar a round.On top of that I tipped him pretty good after the fight was over. The bar was like the last time: smoky,crowded,and noisy. The music on the jukebox was turned up full blast.It seemed like they were playing the same songs all the time that night. When the waitresses weren't serving tables they were dancing with the customers.

I was content to watch the fight from my viewpoint in the booth next to the jukebox.I like looking around seeing how people are behaving and getting along.The crowd generally seemed more drunk than the last time I was there. It was Mexican Independence Day so I think some of these guys had spent the half of the day celebrating,not particularly El Grito de Dolores,but having an excuse,any reason, to get plastered.I saw a lot of heads on the tables and the bar. Next to these skulls were half empty glasses of beer. They sleepy time guys didn't stir the whole time I was there.In san Diego if your head hits the bar ,you're asked to leave and they pick up your glass.But this was a local joint in the Coahuila. Hell,I even saw a couple of the girls who had had one too many curled up in a booth in the back.

Like I mentioned before,most of the guys that frequent The Burro Bar are not there to bang the women(maybe because it's to steep for their wallets or they just can't get it up anymore).They just like dancing with them. Most of the men are old with grizzly beards and dressed the best they can muster up. But some of these guys are so drunk that you can see on the women's faces that it's a very uncomfortable chore to dance a cha cha.One of the waitresses caught my attention. She wasn't no spring chicken,but ther Burro isn't a pasture for colts and fillies anyway.She wore her tawny brown hair straight down along the sides of her light skinned oval face gently reaching her shoulders.When she smiled her teeth were perfect. Her cheeks had a couple of jowls that I tried to imagine out of my mind. Her eyes were brown and soft,passive.She had a svelte build and moved very smoothly around the dance floor. She was dressed in a pair of nice fitting tan slacks. Her ass wasn't booming,but I liked her shape. it was cute and sexy,a small well formed little rear. Her chest wasn't way out there.a plain white blouse accentuated her little titties nicely.

This gal had some old drunk leaning all over her on the dance floor. She was holding him up instead of dancing. She was grimacing and getting stepped on,but she kept her composure with the guy. i'm sure she goes through this night after night.Eventually, he stumbled to the floor with his baseball cap coming off. The woman tried to get him to his feet,but he was too drunk to stand. Finally,she picked up his ball cap and put it on his head. He got surly and threw the cap across the floor. She turned on her heel.said something, and walked back behind the bar.I followed her with my eyes.

As Canelo and Triple G were making their entrances to the ring,three people:two guys and a broad, squeezed beside me in the booth I was sitting in. They didn't say "excuse me "or nothing.Hell,what could I say? But then I saw an empty stool at the bar. Maybe this was the omen I was looking for. It gave me an opportunity to get closer to the TV and the waitress that had been dancing with the old drunk on the dance floor who I couldn't take my eyes off from. I was looking at her as she worked behind the bar pulling out bottles of beer from the ice chest,serving the customers ,doing two things at once. She moved with a grace and ease.The more I looked her ,the more I wanted to run off with her for the moment and to hell with the fight.But there was something else about her.I knew her from somewhere.I began putting it together. It was a long time ago.A time in the Burro Bar. As she was pulling a couple of beers from the ice chest,I motioned her over.
"How long have you worked here?"I asked her.
She stopped what she was doing and peered at my face.
"Two years,"she answered passively.

The fight was about to begin. I grabbed a bar napkin and took out a pencil I had in my pocket. I wanted to score this thing. The music was deafening.The crowd wanted the music to be turned down,but the head waitress just shrugged her shoulders.Sitting next to me were three guys.They looked like they fit right in. The guy next to me was wearing one of those green Mexican national soccer jerseys.The guy next to him had on a work T shirt with company's monogram on the front. The guy next to him was passed out with his head on the bar. They were feeling no pain. When the bell rang for the opening round, I immediately got the sense that the interest tonight wasn't like the Mayweather/McGregor fight. That was a curiosity piece.There was a lot more was on the line with this fight. Right off the bat this Triple G had Canelo backing up. That wasn't what the aficianados wanted to see. I scored the first round even,but as the scenario enveloped with Triple G moving forward,cutting off the ring,and landing the more telling blows,my napkin showed the Russian piling up points. I think it was the 5th or 6th round when I felt a hand on my shouilder. I turned to see that it was the guy with the soccer shirt.
"You score the fight?"he asked me in a broken syntax.
"Yes I am."
"Who you think is winning?"he asked with a funny smile on his face.
"The Russian."
"You know I bet one hundred dollars on Canelo.I think Canelo will win.What do you think?"he asked. His eyes never leaving mine.
"Well,if it's close the judges in Las Vegas will vote for Canelo."
He threw out his chest and held out his glass of beer.
"Canelo!", he boasted. "When he win I buy all the bar a drink!"
He then got closer to me and put his hand again on my shoulder.
"Where you from my friend?"
"San Diego."
"You know my friend",he said starting to slur his speech more and more,"We Mexicans no are racists.We love everybody. We good people. We no are racists."
His breath was beginning to overwhelm me.
"You see all the black people here in Tijuana?"he went on.
"The Haitians."
"They are our brothers.We love them.We are no racists."
"Well that's very good" ,I said.
As the fight continued,it was the same thing. Canelo would flurry,but Triple G was undaunted. You could tell that Alvarez felt his power. But Canelo showed he had guts. He didn't cave in,but it didn't look like he had enough to pull one out of the bag.Then I felt the hand on my shoulder.
"Who you think is winning?"
"It's pretty close,"I answered diplomatically.
"You know my friend,I think Canelo is winning. He is boxing better. The Russian is missing a lot with his punches."
Just then the woman waitress who I was becoming interested in sat down on the ice chest with her back to me watching the television set. She then turned to me , curled her lip ,and rolled her eyes.
"Canelo,"she scoffed.
Then she held up her forefinger and began wagging it at me. She atraightened out her apron and got back to working behind the bar. Then I knew. Yes,I remembered her. Oh,it was a long time ago.A very long time. A time when the waitresses were there for more than serving drinks or dancing with the customers. Yes,I remembered her. I wanted her this night,but I knew what had happened once before ,a long time ago, wasn't going to happen again.

The fight ended. There was confusion in the ring.It was taking a long time. I knew something was up. Then there was the draw. The hand again on my shoulder.
"Do I win stiil?,"asked my new compadre.
"Yes.You win."
He broke out into his confident smile again. I got up from my stool to leave. I wanted to look one more time at the waitress of long ago.She was a lot younger then,but so was I. I was thinking if she looked just as attractive back then as she did now. I didn't know.I just didn't know. In fact I remembered very little about it.

https://imgur.com/0DWkDQP

Canelo
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Che Se Diche?

"You never saw Jake LaMotta,"said my father."He used to play possum and then he'd unload on the other guy when the other guy though the had him and have him out on his back."
It was at Diamond Joe's old house on the corner of Polk and Oakley on the Southwest Side. Everyone was sitting around the long mahogany table eating the big Sunday dinner. My father's brother,Chuckie,his sister Jeanette,my father's half brother,Anthony,my cousins from my aunt Jeanette,Joey and Frankie,and of course my father's mother,my nana.And I was there sitting next to my mother and two sisters.A big bowl of raviolis was in the center of the table with a nice pork gravy with a little garlic.My grandmother's bruschetta with the ripe tomatos sliced on the fresh Italian bread that my father had just picked up hot and fresh from the bakery on the corner. The bread was grilled slightly and dipped in olive oil and vinegar sprinkled with oregano.A little provolone was melted on the top. A cucumber salad with more olive and vinegar doused with fresh lemon juice was in a big yellow ceramic bowl. Next to all these savory dishes was my favorite,a big bowl of sausage and peppers with the bell peppers and sliced onions and Italian squash mixed in.More hot Italian bread on a dish was there to grab and pull apart. Bottles of chianti and mineral water were on the table to quench everyone's thirsts.
"You never saw LaMotta fight Sugar Ray Robinson,"exclaimed my father. "He was the first guy to beat him."
Everyone was chomping away and gorging,making noises eating our traditional Sunday feast. The LaMotta conversation was tossed around by all the men.I don't think the women cared that much,but my grandmother,Diamond Joe's wife,had to add her two cents,"LaMotta showed that 'mulignon' ".
We continued eating and talking about Jake LaMotta. Of course I wasn't around to see Lamotta fight Robinson,but the way my father and his brothers were describing it,I never knew that Jake had lost to the Sugar Man five times. That wasn't important. Just like Saddler beating Pep three out of four.That didn't happen. What was was Marciano sending Joe Louis through the ring ropes. They always laughed about that one. Didn't mention that old Joe was only fighting to pay off the IRS and should have never been in there. No,those greaseballs showed no sympathy for a black fighter.

The Italians immigrated late to this country.The ones that settled on the east coast and in Chicago were poor immigrants. No one threw the welcome mat out for them. They moved next to the Irish neighborhoods .The "micks' and the "guineas" were always fighting each other. Didn't matter that they were both Catholic. Racism is a pretty simple understanding with me. It's the males of the species protecting their women from a different race of males. Those Irish didn't want their women being "hit on" by those dagos. Now when you throw in the black man into this theory,you've got the ultimate 'beef' in the Little Italy's of the big cities

Rocky Marciano.Carmen Basilio,and the Jake LaMottas represented the benchmark for the prototype "Italian Stallions." They were held in higher esteem than any of the Capones or Giancanas. Even other Italian sports heroes like DiMaggio and Lombardi didn't have that level of respect.Jake La Motta would beat your brains out.No one was going to take away his girl. The Southwest Side said he was never knocked down in a fight ,but like all their stories, they withheld some facts. Danny Nardico turned the trick.

So now Jake is gone. He got counted out yesterday. The "Bronx Bull',this "Raging Bull', the tough guy who not only showed no mercy on his opponents,but the thug who mugged and robbed people and took swings on women. They make movies about guys like that. DeNiro won the Best Actor award for his performance. I think his fans even thought DeNiro was just like Jake LaMotta in real life.But it's all a façade:acting,the skeltons in Jake's closet,my father's family sitting around the dining room table scoffing up an Italian dinner in Diamond Joe's old house. And once in awhile, I take a few liberties with some of my stuff I post on the thread.I move my lips and sometimes I stretch the truth a little. But that's what Academy Awards are made of.

Hey goomba,if you and Sugar Ray Ray get together again sometime,maybe he'll give you a rematch. I know my old man will say you kicked his ass however it turns out.

https://imgur.com/0WEyocT

Jake LaMotta
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

https://youtu.be/PIJzpdJIdmI


I bet they play this at Jake's funeral



https://youtu.be/Kkrb4h4weW4

Or better yet, this one
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 21 Sep 2017, 10:37, edited 1 time in total.
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

https://imgur.com/BNTunBi



https://imgur.com/wN10vY1




https://imgur.com/pFZhCEi


https://imgur.com/ZftBFLQ

(A feed at my sisters' house.The recipes were handed down from the chef at Diamomnd Joe's Bella Napoli on Halsted Street,to my grandmother,to my mother,and finally to my sisters. I'm not lying.I've never fried an egg)

Hey Jake ,if somehow you get a pass to go upstairs they'll have plenty of this kind of food to fill you up. However,if you wind up in the other place,you'll have to settle for(how did Ray Liotta say it in Goodfellas when he was put in the witness protection program?)-noodles with ketchup.


https://imgur.com/X3an7rU

The Raging Bull .Maybe not raging in body,but with attitude
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Control Of Nothing

Since the Canelo/Triple G fight I haven't had any Mexicans initiate asking my opinion about the decision. I kind of know how they feel about it. I've asked a few Mexicans about what they thought about the fight.By the way,I'm talking about Mexican nationals,not Chicanos.I haven't surmised how Chicanos,generally speaking,reacted to the outcome. Here' a couple of examples that have given me some insight,not especially about how Mexico saw the scoring,but something deeper.As I said before,there was a lot at stake with this fight. Canelo Alvarez,the most prominent big guy(a legit middleweight) putting it on the line with another great fighter,Gennady Govolkin.

I was telling you about my granddaughter's husband,Ivan, beginning to put on his wrestling shows in Tijuana. I went again Sunday to watch his second event at the Rancho Grande Bar. Another big crowd.I think this kid is going to turn the corner with this. He's positive,enthusiastic,and has vision.He told me the other night that his events are going to be broadcast live on Mexican TV.He's a risk taker,but you can't be a shrinking violet in that business. He'll pull money out of his pocket to promote his shows(free T Shirts,printing flyers and putting up posters all over the city,getting the word out on his Facebook page,and giving away a few free ducats to the guys who can help him out with his enterprise). Anyway,I took my grandson Adam with me this time. He said he wanted to go. You can't let life pass you by without going to a Mexican wrestling match. Me and Adam arrive a little early. Ivan said the card kicked off at 6:30.We got there at 6.The place was pretty desolate.I see Ivan scrambling around checking on everything from the snack bar to the ticket booth. 6:30 rolls around and there's still a lot of empty seats. However,I know I'm in Mexico and their clocks have lead weights attached to the hands. By 7 the people are beginning to filter through the doors. By 7;15 the seats are filling up pretty fast. The crowd is mostly family types(parents with their kids). I see Ivan out of the corner of my eye now. He's breathing easier. I guess he's respiring well enough to come by and have a few words with me and Adam.
"I couldn't sleep last night,"he said.
"I think you'll do pretty good tonight."
"I signed with the local TV station to show the matches."
"Congratulations."
He handed me and Adam a couple of T Shirts with his "Tijuana Wrestling Enterprises" printed on the back.
"These are for you,"he said proudly.
He wants to show that he's got some class and he's displaying it nicely. He was about to pull away when I asked him about the fight.
"Ivan,did you see the fight?"
He backed off a little and broke eye contact.
"Yes."
"Well ,who do you think really won?"
Well...I think Triple G won,but Canelo outpointed him. He made Triple G miss a lot,"he said putting more distance between me and Adam not looking at me anymore. By the time he finished his explanation,Ivan's back was to us.

By now you know my wife is into recycling. She works just as hard collecting bottles and cans as she did when she was cleaning fish at the commissary. Two or three times a week I drive her to the recycling center with all the bags of bottles and cans crammed inside the car. Everyone who works at the center,except for the boss who's Fillipino,is Mexican. There were born in all parts of the republic:Sinaloa,Guerrero,Michoacan. My wife and that crew have no problem connecting. They were born poor and worked all their lives. They know how to live without and deal with life's adversities. The other day I pulled the car into the yard.
"Mari,como estas?,"asked one of the workers. They're younger guys,married with kids.They hustle and bustle. They live in Barrio Logan,National City,and some cross the border in the morning from Tijuana.My wife began unloading bags from the car. Her compadres came over to help.I just sit there working my crossword puzzles with the dogs on my lap. My wife makes sure she always leaves a tip when everything is settled.
"Tengo pocito ahorra."she answered.
I know these guys,not like my wife,but we always have something to say between us. It's mostly something veiled with a little sarcasm. They have that similar back round of growing on the ranch in rural Mexico. I'm a city dude.
"Hey amigo.How's it going ?,"I asked the kid who shows the most enthusiasm to help my wife."Did you see the Fight?"
He stopped moving.
"Yes."
"Who won?"( I was baiting him)
He put his two forefingers together.
"Empate."
"I know ,but in realidad."
He thought for a moment.
"Canelo.The other guy's face was more red."
I rolled my eyes.
"C'mon."
He gave me a crooked smile and began unloading the bags of bottles and cans.
"Hey look,"I said. "They'll fight again."
I went back to my crossword puzzle. Out of the corner of my eye,I saw that my wife was finished collecting her money. She got back in the car counting her profits. I started the car and looked at the kid I was talking to about the fight. I don't know if he saw me. I honked the horn and gave him a wave. He didn't respond.As I was backing up,I looked at him again.He gave me a wave back and had a little smile on his face.He made eye contact.

So it ain't worth it to me to impose my f---kin' opinion on this fight, especially with a Mexican national. If they think Canelo won,I'm fine with that. People on the U.S. side don't realize that Mexicans are always sizing themselves up with America. We've got all this wealth and they don't. They want to come here to work and buy the things they couldn't afford if they lived in Mexico. They also send plenty of U.S. dollars down to Mexico to their families. Next to oil and drugs,sending U.S. dollars to Mexico is big part of their economy.They know Mexico is a footnote in the history books in comparison with the United States. The privileged Mexicans or the Narcos control Mexico and run things to satisfy themselves. Many Mexicans want to leave their country because their leaders are mother f---kers.The poor can't get out from under it,so they want to come here to earn some money. You'd have to be blind or dumber than crap to see that they do all the grunt work.But when they come here, they have their pride.There's beggar holding a sign on just about every corner in San Diego. I've never seen a Mexican. Canelo represents that pride in a way. Canelo was fighting for a lot more than just himself. So if a Mexican national wants to think that Canelo really won that fight,I'm in his corner. It isn't worth it to me or anyone to want everything,especially their way about an outcome of a fight. To have it all means you have often nothing. Mexico will be waiting for the rematch. It'll be crazy. It'll be the biggest fight in Mexican history. I hope Canelo wins... and if he doesn't, I'll feel Mexico's pain. Maybe not as much,but there'll be some hurt.

https://imgur.com/yANW7IO

A sample of Ivan's advertising for his wrestling events .You see these signs painted all around the city
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

With No Particular Place To Go

A few months back I posted a story about the CREA Gym in Tijuana. I had revisited the place after a long absence. A few years before that I had dropped by, but the gym was closed. When I finally caught the place with its doors open,I was surprised that the professional talent was a bit on the thin side. It was a pleasant experience to see the veteran trainer,Romulo Quirarte still there working with the kids,but that's what comprised most of the bodies:boys and girls struggling ,yet having fun, learning from a master on how to box.Quirarte took a moment to take me aside and tell me he was putting in his time primarily to keep these kids off the street and perhaps losing their way. I remember 30 years ago when I used to frequent the CREA and watched Quirarte put his son in law at the time, Jibaro Perez,through his workouts. Perez was a world champion then. Another champ,Dinamita Estrada,was also a daily participator at the CREA. I remember the excitement inside the gym as many local boxing fans would crowd inside to watch world class fighters train with their DNA determination. It wasn't that way when I went to the CREA a few months ago.Though in principle,the mnotives were honorable,there wasn't a fighter to be seen that afternoon that I would consider more than a gym rat. There were there to exercise,stay away from trouble,learn from a good man.

Previously, I had talked the CREA up as the foremost gym in Mexico. Maybe it was once,but that distinction is far in the past.In the early 80's I saw Olivares train there with Romulo Quirsrte,guiding his workout session.Besides Jibaro and Dinamita,it was not unusual to see Maramero Paez step through the ropes.Marcios Geraldo I saw one afternoon.You remember,he was in there with Hearns and Leonard.I never saw these guys,but Antonio Margarito trained at the CREA. Later he opened up his own facility in his neighborhood,Colonia Francisco Villa. Though Erik Morales had his own gym in the Zona Norte(it's still there.Margarito's gym is not),"Terrible "would do his hard training at the CREA.There were a slew of old time Mexican greats like Saldivar,Olivares,and the transplanted Cuban,Jose Napoles,that I'm sure still haunt the old gym that's under the bleachers. I saw Napoles workout at the old gym that was upstairs between the fire station and the Tijuana Jail on 8th Street though. I spun that one one time at you. It's somewhere back there in the thread.

So where am I going with all this? Well,last night I was watching this pretty good go between this undefeated Mexican kid ,Oscar Valdez,and another gritty fighter from Pinoy,Servania. I got to thinking. Did this Valdez ever fight in TJ? You know,work his way up fighting in all the little tank towns in the Republic,finally getting a main event in Tijuana,and then forever after, fight in the U.S.for the big dough.I looked up his record:no fights in TJ. So now I'm thinking if some of these other hot Mexuican products ever cut their teeth in any of the Tijuana venues. Again to the Boxrec records. Canelo:no;Gilbert Ramirez:no;Leo Santa Cruz:nada.Luis Nery is the only one that fought in TJ ,and that shows how I've been out of the loop-it passed me by.

Most of the action in TJ is in these little bars around town. The main event is usually an eight rounder. Once in awhile there's a fight in the Auditotium,sometimes at the Bullring By the Sea. I saw Chavez junior fight his second fight at Las Pulgas bar on Revolution Street. He again fought one time at the seaside bullring. Both fights were insignificant. To tell the truth,the showcase talent in TJ are the girl fighters.

Today ,I got to thinking what it was in San Diego back in the 60's , 70's,and 80's. It sure wasn't what they had going on in Los Angeles,but there were enough pugs around town that were sweating through there jerseys everyday at the various boxing gyms :Spud Murphy's,The Coliseum,Burke Emery's in North Park,the 32nd Naval Street gym,the City Youth Center in Nat City,Archie Morre's ABC Boxing Club,Sid Flahrety had a camp in the foothills as did Joe Sayatovich in Campo.It wasn't hard to find real good boys like Ken Norton, Terry Norris,James "the Heat" Kinchen,Denny Moyer, Ronnie Wilson,David Love,and Art Hafey showing you the fundamentals and the tricks of the trade of how to fight inside the ring.

So today I got in my car and tried to find my way around to some of the local gyms to maybe catch a glimpse at a rising star. There was only cloud cover. I stopped by the City Boxing Club on 14th Street by the college. I asked the guy at the desk if any pro fighters trained here. He said there was one. He pointed the guy out.
"He's our Muay Thai trainer mostly.He's had one pro fight,"said the guy at the desk.
I know Tiger Smalls is working with his son,Prince,and he has another kid with several fights under his belt,a heavyweight. But most of their fights are staged in those little bars in Tijuana. I drove to National City to the Center City Youth Center.It was closed. I heard that David Love is training fighters somewhere at a gym by San Diego State College. I'll run that down.

But all things considered,it's kind of slow around here.I don't see it picking up.San Diego isn't much of a sports town. We lost the Chargers. Two NBA franchises folded. There's never been NHL hockey ,and there never will be. We have the baseball Padres,but that's all.People in San Diego would rather ride their bikes,or surf,take their desert toys to the back country,climb a mountain,or run a half marathon. Why stay cooped up in a stadium or a boxing arena when the weather is so nice? Instead of beer and hot dogs,it's a quiche and green tea.

https://imgur.com/GE9sfgq

Antonio Margarito
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

The Man In The Street

Last year ESPN sent one of their reporters around the country to visit all the baseball stadiums and then list them according to "worst to best". This guy determined that San Diego's Petco Park was the Number 1 ballpark in Major League Baseball. I didn't look at his list.All I know is that he put Petco on the top of the other ballparks.Well,you know how I feel about lists. :doh:

The baseball Padres jumped all over this result. The Chamber of Commerce,Tourist Bureau,and the mayor were doing cartwheels. Last year's All Star Game was held at Petco Park. I was there to see Giancarlo Stanton hit some moon rockets to win the Home Run Derby competition.The game was the following day.There are probably some of you reading this that saw the game. The Padres broadcast all their home games(and away games)on television. It's a very well packaged presentation with ,who I think, are the best team of broadcasters and analysts in the bigs:Don Orsillo(we got him from the Red Sox),Marc Grant,Mark Sweeney.Bob Scanlan,Mike Pomeranz,and Tony Gwinn Jr. These guys work together wonderfully,are heads up into the game,and make things fun for the viewer and listener. They all have a fresh happy look, and of course they constanly remind everyone that they are performing in the "Number 1 Ballpark" in the Major Leagues. What they don't tell you, and won't,is that Petco Park is surrounded by one of the largest homeless communities in the United States. It's estimated that there are 5000 homeless people living in the streets in a six block square area encircling the ballpark and the new downtown public library.In the midst of these structures are new high rise condominiums and others under construction going for a cool million a pop. It's the greatest chasm between the haves and the have nots I've ever seen.In recent months there's been an epidemic of Hepatitis A caused by homeless people defecating on the sidewalks,sharing dirty needles,and passing around bottles of wine. As of this writing the Health department has diagnosed around 600 cases of the disease and 17 deaths stemming from the virus.

The city crews clear the people off the streets ,power wash the sidewalk, and then spray chlorine on top of everything.But an epidemic still broke out. The mayor,Kevin Faulconer,prior to the outbreak,decided he would erect tent cities in the area. Then the Hepatitis was detected and now he wants to put on the sidewalks a slew of portable toilets and wash basins with hand sanitizers attached to them. This catastrophe encircles the "Number 1 Baeseball Park" in the Majors.

I volunteered at Father Joe's(St, Vincent DePauls)Homeless Shelter two years ago that's locate a block from Petco. I was there to mentor the kids at the shelter with their school work.I lasted about ten months. The gal in charge had been doing this for 17 years. Her program was a mess. The kids had to be brought to the classroom by their parents. Half the time they brought in their kids late.Most of the time it was an excuse to "dump' their kids on someone else. The kids would come in and the gal in charge would let them play games and eat snacks instead of sitting them down next to a mentor to work on their homework. After a stabbing of a kid with a pencil and a girl being molested under the foosball table,I threw in the towel. In the ten months I was at Father Joe's ,I never saw a family (when their time was up after nine months)that had progressed upward toward getting a job.It was always on to another shelter in the vicinity(there are six of them). Call it "working the system."

So why am I telling you this?Because yesterday I went back to the streets around Petco Park,the area the city named the East Village.I went there because someone had told me of an ex fighter who was once a frequent main eventer at the old Coliseum.He was calling the streets outside the "Number 1 Ballpark" his home.I won't write down his real name.I've written about some fighters that I've been PM'd by by their kids. They were a little sore. They wished I'd given their dads' end of it a different slant. I got no kick with that. He might have some family out there that reads this thread.So I'll give him an alias.I'll call him "Whitey."

It was the ol' needle in the haystack trying to locate this guy. All I had in my memory was how he looked 30 years ago when he was in the ring. I started walking down from Market Street from Broadway ,down four blocks on 16th Street till I got to Imperial Avenue. It was a hot day and the smell of urine,tobacco and marijuana smoke permeated the air.There was garbage all over the streets and sidewalks,dogs running loose doing there business ,people in wheelchairs,blue plastic tents with who knows who living inside of them covering the sidewalks so you had to walk on the street. People were yelling at each other and talking to themselves.Somewhere inside their heads was a history of every kind of abuse imaginable,and it was locked in,only to be displayed in a cohesiveness they could only transmit.And then lurking in the corners,deperate souls selling their bodies,men and women,to the shadowy figures driving in the slow moving cars. I reached the corner of Imperial where the city bus yard is and walked past Father Joe's toward the ballpark.I got about half way to the ballpark when I saw a face that registered with me. It could have been Whitey. The closer I neared this guy the more confident I was that I had found my man. His face was wrinkled and lined by being out in the sun too much. His matted gray hair stuck out from under an old torn fedora. As I looked closer,I saw that most of his front teeth were gone and the one's that were left were black.He had about a week's worth of gray stubble on his tired face. He was bent over leaning on a lamp post coughing up a slime of something he had eaten.Probably something he found in a trash can. His blue eyes were bloodshot and the whites had a yellowish tint.The thick purple scar tissue was packed into his eyelids. He was wearing a greasy flannel jacket that was torn on both sides of the shoulders. His scuffed up leather shoes showed the toes of his feet sticking out in the front.He appeared like Whitey so I went to look at his hands.I knew his hands well. When I used to spar with him he had cuffed me around plenty of times with his hands. In fact he would let me wrap his hands before a sparring session. I got real close. He was so sick that I didn't think he saw me or if he did,he didn't care.His hand gripped the lamp post real tight as he was heaving his guts. Those were Whitey's fingers.Those were his hands. The knuckles were gnarly and the fingernails thick and grimy,but those were his hands,the long strong fingers.The hands I wrapped.The hands of a heavyweight even though he never tipped the scales over the middleweight limit. I got right up to him. He stopped gagging and looked up at me. His lips were wet and dripping an ooze and his face was sweating.I could see that he was puzzled by my staring.
"Whitey,"I said in a low voice,"Whitey.Remember me?"
He straightened himself up and stepped towards me.
"Whitey. It's me, Roger.remember the days at the Coliseum? Remember me and Pat?"
His eyes widened.He cleared his throat.
"What do you want?"he asked blankly.
"I heard you were living down here.I thought I'd look you up."
"You got any money?"he asked gruffly.
"I'll buy you something to eat. We can talk about old times."
He put up his hand and made a fist.
"Who in the hell are you?"he yelled."I don't know you."
"Sure you do. Remember how we used to workout?How we'd go out on the town?"
"You tried to steal my wife you no good bastard. I should have kicked your ass. Now get out of here and leave me alone.I'll cut you you no good wife stealer."
I couldn't think of anything to say. I started to back away from him.
"Besides,"he blurted out.'You got the wrong man. I never saw you in my life."
As I walked back and turned the corner on Imperial onto 16th Street back towards my car,i saw the traffic arriving at the ballpark. There was going to be a game that night. I just kept on walking.i sure didn't have my mind on the "Number 1 Ballpark in the big leagues.


https://imgur.com/ZPwz014

Some of the many homeless outside Petco Park. You can see the ballpark in the back round.
Chuck1052
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 4282
Joined: 11 Dec 2003, 22:08

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Chuck1052 »

One of the many startling aspects about moving from Ventura, California to Arizona City, Arizona is that the homeless people are almost invisible in the latter community and even in the much larger nearby community of Casa Grande. Yes, I have seen a fellow holding a cardboard sign while asking for handout in very hot weather, but that is about it.

- Chuck Johnston
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Chuck1052 wrote:One of the many startling aspects about moving from Ventura, California to Arizona City, Arizona is that the homeless people are almost invisible in the latter community and even in the much larger nearby community of Casa Grande. Yes, I have seen a fellow holding a cardboard sign while asking for handout in very hot weather, but that is about it.
Chuck,

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck,
The homeless would rather stand outside holding a sign in San Diego,that has the best climate in the world,than stand outside begging in the middle of the Arizona desert where the temperature reaches 120 degrees in the summer and very few people live. I went to Fenway Park in Boston last year to watch a game. I saw two homeless people outside the ballpark. I was having a drink in a bar outside the ballpark before the game started and mentioned to the bartender about the situation in San Diego with the homeless. He remarked that in Boston the city rounds up the homeless and puts them on a bus with a one way ticket. When asked where they want to be delivered,the majority say "San Diego." :lol:

https://imgur.com/5QUG4PQ

Sure beats panhandling in the middle of the Mojave desert.(San Diego on the waterfront)
Chuck1052
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 4282
Joined: 11 Dec 2003, 22:08

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by Chuck1052 »

dagosd2000 wrote:
Chuck1052 wrote:One of the many startling aspects about moving from Ventura, California to Arizona City, Arizona is that the homeless people are almost invisible in the latter community and even in the much larger nearby community of Casa Grande. Yes, I have seen a fellow holding a cardboard sign while asking for handout in very hot weather, but that is about it.
Chuck,

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck,
The homeless would rather stand outside holding a sign in San Diego,that has the best climate in the world,than stand outside begging in the middle of the Arizona desert where the temperature reaches 120 degrees in the summer and very few people live. I went to Fenway Park in Boston last year to watch a game. I saw two homeless people outside the ballpark. I was having a drink in a bar outside the ballpark before the game started and mentioned to the bartender about the situation in San Diego with the homeless. He remarked that in Boston the city rounds up the homeless and puts them on a bus with a one way ticket. When asked where they want to be delivered,the majority say "San Diego." :lol:

https://imgur.com/5QUG4PQ

Sure beats panhandling in the middle of the Mojave desert.(San Diego on the waterfront)
Roger, you're right.

- Chuck Johnston
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Chuck1052 wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:
Chuck1052 wrote:One of the many startling aspects about moving from Ventura, California to Arizona City, Arizona is that the homeless people are almost invisible in the latter community and even in the much larger nearby community of Casa Grande. Yes, I have seen a fellow holding a cardboard sign while asking for handout in very hot weather, but that is about it.
Chuck,

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck,
The homeless would rather stand outside holding a sign in San Diego,that has the best climate in the world,than stand outside begging in the middle of the Arizona desert where the temperature reaches 120 degrees in the summer and very few people live. I went to Fenway Park in Boston last year to watch a game. I saw two homeless people outside the ballpark. I was having a drink in a bar outside the ballpark before the game started and mentioned to the bartender about the situation in San Diego with the homeless. He remarked that in Boston the city rounds up the homeless and puts them on a bus with a one way ticket. When asked where they want to be delivered,the majority say "San Diego." :lol:

https://imgur.com/5QUG4PQ

Sure beats panhandling in the middle of the Mojave desert.(San Diego on the waterfront)
Roger, you're right.

- Chuck Johnston
You guys might like this.When I was looking for my friend the other day by Petco Park ,where many of San Diego's homeless congregate,I saw this guy walking through the maze of bodies along the sidewalk.He was around middle age,hair styled nicely,clean shaven,wore glasses. I kept my eye on this guy because he looked like he was up to something.He was wearing a sport jacket and tie,shoes polished-a real natty fella'.Couldn't help but notice him. He kept walking along poking his nose onto everyone's business. Suddenly, he stops in front of this homeless guy who's sitting on the sidewalk with his back up against a chain link fence. He's got his hands folded on his lap and he's fast asleep. You could have dumped a pail of ice water on him and I don't think he would have budged. Anyway, Mr. Sport Jacket looks at this homeless guy,clears his throat real loud,looks around like he wants people to take notice,bends down,pulls out a dollar bill from his coat pocket,and puts it in the homeless guy's hand. The homeless guy is still out like a light.Mr. Sport Jacket put the dollar bill in the homeless guy's hand sticking out so you couldn't help but see it. Then Mr. Sport Jacket straightens himself up and looks around wanting to know who saw this benevolent act of charity. I think he was waiting for applause. He throws out his chest, and then struts down the street walking tall and proud. All of a sudden another homeless guy races up to the homeless guy passed out against the fence and swipes the dollar bill from his hand. Stiil ,the guy is in dreamland. I figured sooner or later he'd wake up. He wouldn't know nothin' about what happened. The only thing I wished was that Mr. Sport Jacket to have witnessed the theft. I wonder if he'd been sore at the thief?Hell,if he's really a good Samaritan it shouldn't have mattered. :lol:
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

The Late White Hope

Remember when they used that expression "The Great White Hope"?. I guess it started when Jack Johnson won the heavyweight title from Tommy Burns.Then you HAD a lot of white supremacists . Hell,Tommy Burns would go around telling everyone within earshot that the ref stopped the fight too soon. Tommy was setting ol' Jack up that's all. He had him where he wanted. Well,after that lousy decision, the cry went out for any male with white skin to get in there with Johnson and set things straight for the white race(whatever that is).Stanley Ketchel was too small to do it. Fitz and Corbett were too old. So was Jeffries,but they got him to get in there and crawl through the ropes in Reno. Back then a great white fighter was better than a great black fighter. But Jeff wasn't the champ no more.He was just a "Hope". Hell, every white sports writer , fighters current and ex,KKK ers,gandy dancer,bartender,farmer,school teacher,politician ,and preacher were hoping Jeffries would make things right again for the fair skinned cause.Can't have a guy like Johnson wanting to take out my daughter. I don't know what Jeffries fight plan was,but having Corbett in his corner yelling at Johnson and calling him a n----r didn't help Mr. Jeff out very much. After that trauma ,the call was out.Who's it going to be?Luther McCarty looked good in his trunks,but he died in a fight before he would have had his chance. Fred Fulton was tall and big.So was Carl Morris. But they ran Johnson out of the country on that Mann Act rap and he went to Europe and lost interest in fighting,at least staying in shape. The Jim Johnson and Frank Moran fights didn't steal any headlines away from all the deadly real fighting that was going on over there.After the war,Jack thought he could work out a deal with the government and get back to see his mother before she died. He was late for that. He also couldn't get anything going stateside for a defense. He settled for a fight against Jess Willard in Havana . By that time Johnson was old and fat. Putting the fight at the racetrack was apropos. He was eating like a horse and fought like a nag ready for the glue factory. So the public got their" white hope",I guess with Willard. But the big Kansan wasn't captivating the public. He didn't fight much,nor was he spectacular inside the ring. It wasn't until a pair of Jacks,Dempsey and Kearns,made it all make sense again.It put things right. The way it should have been.They,with the help of a little plaster of Paris, would show the white race that they could sleep easier at night .

We don't hear that talk about "white hopes" anymore.When Joe Louis won the title,there was a familiar cry for a change,but Louis probably soothed the racial wound better than anyone in history,and that includes King,because here we had another black man being the the baddest dude on the planet( and he got there over the prostrate bodies of white fighters),but he was a gentleman.He was a nice guy.It was even hard for red necks to diss him. Joe had gone into the service and entertained the boys with boxing exhibitions. He was no boaster like Jack Johnson. Louis's people didn't want him associating with Johnson. Johnson was persona non grata. Joe liked the white gals as much as Johnson,but they kept that under wraps.In front of the public,Joe was himself,a nice guy.

But Joe grew old. After a Charles /Wolcott trade off,Rocky took over. But I don't remember the white community breathing a sigh of relief that much unless you were like me and spent your childhood in Little Italy in Chicago.Rocky had had enough of fighting and Al Weill and packed it in.The public was OK with Patterson's color,but not the way Cus D'Amato steered him through the division.The big Swede Ingemar sat on the dais briefly,but I remember the rematch. The public wanted Patterson to bring the crown back to America.

Over time we've had multi title belts and everyone seemed to be a heavyweight champion at one time or another. A few white guys called themselves,"champ." Tommy Morrison comes to mind.Now we've seen the Klitsckos.Tyson Fury turned the trick.But this obsession with a white hope is ancient history.

I look back reading about the craziness of finding a white man so he could be the heavyweight champion of the world. i'm surprised Jim Thorpe didn't put on the gloves. But then Thorpe was an Indian. Maybe he wouldn't have counted. But here's a guy they overlooked. He was the scariest dude I'd ever seen,Boris Karloff. You gonna' tell me anyone would want to mess with this white dude?

https://imgur.com/eMLQrGA
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Repeating The Obvious

I watched the new ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on the life of Tommy Morrison. I tuned in about a third of the way into the piece. I said to myself I'll look to see when it's on again and watch it from the beginning. I got in at the point of the Mercer fight. Interviewed was his manager and trainer,some of the guys he fought like Ray Mercer and Larry Holmes,his ex wives,and his mother. Tommy was a good looking kid,claimed he was related to John Wayne taking the nickname"Duke",co starred with Sylvester Stallone in Rocky V,and won a WBO heavyweight title. His marquis wins were against George Foreman and Razor Ruddick. During his up and down career he tested positive for the HIV virus. His bizarre lifestyle continued. He told people he would become the heavyweight champion again. He said one thing and did another.He went to prison. He died in 2013 at the age of 44.

I bumped into Tommy Morrison at the 2010 World Boxing Hall of Fame Banquet.He was signing autographs. He looked all right.By that time the HIV thing was out in the open. I asked him how he was doing. He said he was going to win the heavyweight championship again. I kind of shrugged it off. I didn't tell anyone what he had said. I figure he had already told everyone. For me it's not so interesting to document all his screw ups. To go back and retell his story is an officious task. Then to criticize his errors is like shooting fish in a barrel. So why do guys like Tommy Morrison go south when it seems like they have life in the palm of their hands?

Here's how I figure it out. When I used to teach school (or try to) near the border,me and all the administration, teachers and staff, would knock our heads together trying to come up with an answer why our school and our district had some of the lowest test scores in the county.One day a teacher commented to me that our students" had a fear of failure." I gave him a funny look.
"You mean they have a fear of success. They're already wallowing in failure."
To reach success is just the beginning. Granted it's a difficult journey to reach the top,or at least near the summit,but to stay there is the real test. Now you have to work just as hard ,or harder,to keep that status.Now it becomes a lifelong mission. Granted,the kids in our school district were mostly swimming with the minnows. They reinforced their performances,a co dependency. Aiming for something higher would have separated themselves from the rest of the crowd. When one tried,it was the "crabs in the bucket" syndrome. That's an old Mexican expression. One crab decides he wants to crawl up and get out of the bucket,and then the other crabs pull him back down.
"What are you trying to be?Stay here with us, "say the rest of the crabs.
The wishful thinker then victimizes himself by staying down with his "friends." The guys who are laughing at him because he has this thought of making something of himself. With Tommy Morrison it was different. He got out of the bucket,but found his way back in again. It all boils down to giving in to fear. Success is attained by the ingredients of your mettle. Sure,when you reach the goal you've got plenty of people in your corner(good and bad).But they expect you to win all the time.With Tommy Morrison,like all fighters,it was HE alone who was in the ring. Before the opening bell,he knew if he had paid the price,or had just faked it. Tommy couldn't handle success.It was scary.It's scary to be alone sometimes. He earned his success for a spell,but couldn't maintain it. Lennox Lewis ,who he had to beat to get to the pinnacle,was out there. Tommy might have had Michael Bentt and Ray Mercer in his mind still. Lennox Lewis? Tommy couldn't strike out that fear. After Lewis, it was a one way ticket on the train to self destruction. Masking his fantasies with intoxicants,he would spin tale after tale.

But Tommy had his day in the sun.He couldn't make it shine brighter. The storm clouds were on the horizon.However,Tommy left a mark. For most of us to find our indications, you'd have to use a microscope. So for the arm chair analysts and wanna' be' s,It's easy to tear this guy apart. Everyone will want to watch a story of how Tommy Morrison imploded.The movies that get awarded best Picture at the Academy Awards are usually tragedies. The actor who wins The Best Actor prize is more than likely in a serious dramatic role. Comedies are not on that "higher" plane. Rarely, are Oscars handed out for something that makes you laugh. The ESPN documentary on Tommy Morrison didn't elicit any chuckles. Come to think of it,when it comes on again,I'll give it a pass.

https://imgur.com/GhY4sPe

Tommy Morrison
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

How Many Men On A Baseball Team?

I think I saw it on the Mike Douglas Show.I think it was just after Cassius Clay had changed his name and sworn his allegiance to the Nation of Islam. It must have been right after Ali had beaten Llston for the second time. Cassius had solidified his position as something special as a fighter. The sport had been down ever since Marciano retired, and now Clay (Ali)was rapidly bringing the fight game back into the spotlight. That light was always cast on the heavyweight division. You had to have a great champ at the top,and he had to be an American. Ali qualified as both. I vaguely recall the conversation on the Douglas Show. Somewhere the topic of baseball came up. Ali might have been asked what his favorite baseball team was or who was the player he kept his eye on in the box score. Ali said he didn't have a favorite player nor a team he rooted for. He said he had never played baseball.I think Mike Douglas was a little surprised at Muhammad's lack of interest and knowledge about the National Pastime.Ali added candidly that he didn't even know how many players took the field in a game.Did this guy fall off the turnip truck?

I don't think Ali was trying to be cute. He was just never around the sport.nor was he around football or basketball. Fighters back in those days didn't play Little League. There wasn't any Pop Warner Football. Most future fighters didn't finish high school or if they did,they were non attenders.They kept the truant officers busy. They didn't care if they got an "F". All they wanted to do is find an angle to make some money. Most of those kids fought in the street everyday and so becoming a pro was something they could build on from past experience. Fighting was no big deal.

When I used to hang around the various gyms in San Diego,I don't ever remembering a fighter walking in on a Monday and say"Hey,did you see the Charger game yesterday?" I hung around Ronnie Wilson and his stablemate Denny Moyer and I never heard them talk about other sports. In fact,they never talked much about other fighters unless it was the guy they were going to fight next. When I was helping Archie Moore out,all he talked about was boxing,jazz,and philosophy.He was quite a deep thinker,but I don't think he knew the difference between an extra point and an extra terrestrial.When Burke Emery was behind the bar in his joint ,all he wanted to know was who was going to sign up for the dart tournament.You could ask him about boxing,but he never got into an in depth discussion about it,and if you had to have your opinion engraved in stone,he'd concede to your point of view even though it was probably trite and banal.

I worked awhile at Juvenile Hall with a fighter named Gilbert Baptist.His last fight was against Gerald McClellan.It was a title shot that Gilbert took on short notice.McClellan won in the first round. Anyway, Gilbert worked with Terry Norris when Terry was getting ready to fight Leonard.I saw them spar at Spud Murphy's Gym on Broadway. I don't remember anything said about sports except what Terry wanted him to do in the ring.

It's funny.you see sports celebrities at the big fights. You see the Magic Johnsons and LeBrons. They come in all decked out with a good looking babe(or babes)on their arms.They sit ringside.The camera is on them,but fighters,especially the name guys, are no shows at a World Series Game or a Super Bowl. When New York was the "center" of the sports world,you'd see a DiMaggio or Mantle at Yankee Stadium to see the outcome of the Louis/ Schmeling rematch or at The Polo Grounds to see if Ray Robinson could regain the championship from Randy Turpin.

Fighers are in a world of their own. The sport is an anamoly. It's by itself.When all these contact sports today are focused on concussions,so is boxing. A great fight serves plenty of brain damage,and the potential of it,on its platter. Football,for instance,won't allow a player to strike his opponent with his helmet ,and if he aims at the head,he's suspended and fined heavily. if a football player loses conciousnees,he has to go through a battery of tests in the locker room to decide if he can return to the field.He probably won't play next week.In Caklifornia,if a fighter is knocked out,he can't fight again in the state for a month. That's a commission rule. Then he needs to be examined again if he's to fight in the Sunshine State. In the meantime,he can get a fight in Arizona or Mexico. Mexico has always been a refuge for the pug on that bus to Palookaville.Instead of boxing looking out for the fighter's interests and well being,too many of these guys get chewed up by the promoters and their managers.Then when they can't make anymore money with them,They're often thrown in the bone heap. They're lucky if they some out of it with their health.

When Mike Douglas asked Ali how many guys were on a baseball team,The Greatest drew a chuckle when he said he didn't know.If they had asked him the same question at the end of his life,he couldn't have given the right answer even if he had studied,and no one would have been laughing.

https://imgur.com/QEHQ2zc

Ali near the end
dagosd2000
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 8638
Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31

Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing

Post by dagosd2000 »

Slip Of The Tongue

Living in Little Italy in Chicago was like living in Italy itself. Those dagos were patriotic by then.The anarchist Sacco and Venzetti mentality had morphed into a spirit of patriotism even though the Southwest Side thought those guys got the shaft.But when it came down to self identification,you were an Italian first. Even Mussolini they could find something to hang a star on. When Benito and his girlfriend Clara Petacci bullet ridden bodies were hung upside down in that Milan gas station ,all the greaseballs that hung out on Taylor Street put their black shirts back in the closet. In Italy, no one had ever heard of Fascism. Italians only saw the silver linings.

By the 70's, my father had lost interest with boxing. There were no more Marcianos,Basilios,and LaMottas. Hell,even Da' Preem could have licked any heavyweight except The Rock. I guess my father didn't read about what happened when Joe Louis made Primo scream in Yankee Stadium. Besides,my father was now living in sunny San Diego. Most of the Italians out here were Sicilian and he was unhappy. His Neapolitan blood wouldn't mix with that breed living on India Street so he digressed back to the days when he was a part of The Outfit.California was a land of "catfish".He called Chicago just about everyday and would talk to "made" guys like Mooney,and Paul "The Waiter".Jackey "The Lackey" I remember came out to talk to my father about something. So did Frank LaPorte. Living in our house was like living again on the corner of Polk and Oakley Boulevards. Only when you walked outside did you realize that you were pond with the "catfish."

I was following the fight game. I was hanging around the gyms. It was mostly Mexican fighters then,and I do admit that my father had an interest once in a while to take in a fight at the Coliseum or in Tijuana. He liked the way Mexicans fought. They moved in ,hands low,hooking and swinging,and showing no fear for absorbing the other guy's punches. But when it came to listing the all time greats with my father, the pugs would all be wearing shirts splotched with spaghetti sauce. There wasn't a heavyweight out there who could have beaten Marciano.(that computer fight with Rocky and Ali proved that!).Pep would have made a monkey out of Sanchez. My father couldn't think of any Italian bantamweights so he said the Wil' O' The Wisp could have gone down a weight and beat Olivares and Zarate both in the ring at the same time.

When I saw Jose Napoles fight for the first time on Mexican television I couldn't believe my eyes.Then when I saw him fight Herbie Lee in the old Tijuana bullring,i was hooked.When "Mantequilla" spread his punches all over Curtis Cokes' to win the title,I tried to convince my father that Jose was one of the all time greats.When my father inquired about what weight Jose fought ,you guessed it,Carmen Basilio would change his nickname to "Manteca."When Billy Backus sliced open Jose's eye to win the belt in Syracuse,I was eating a baloney sandwich smothered with lard. My father wasn't even aware of that fight. He was too busy on the phone to Chicago or talking to "Sonny" Capone's daughter,Annette,who klived up the coast. When Napoles polished off Billy in the rematch,I wanted my father to watch the replay on TV. I had to bend his arm.
"So who wins?"he asked me as Mickey Davies and Tom Harmon were setting things up in the pre fight .
"Napoles,"I answered.
"Napoles? You mean this guy is Italian?"
"No.He's a Cuban."
"He can't be with a name like Napoles. He must be from Naples."
I'd rather had been banging my head against the door.The fighters and their corner men entered the ring. I pointed out Jose Napoles.
"Isn't that Carmen Basilio with the other guy?"asked my father.
"He's Backus's uncle."
"Well then Backus is Itsalian."
"That's right."
Well,Backus must have won."
"No.the fight was last night. Napoles won."
"Carmen wouldn't handle a guy who would lose."
Now I'm looking for the door to bang my head against.

Well ,the fight progresses and by the time the middle rounds arrive Billy is bleeding and hurt. It's pretty obvious he ain't gonna' last much longer.My father then gets out of his chair and says he's got to make a phone call to Chicago. I don't know if he did or he didn't,but I didn't see him again until the following day. I didn't bring up the fight ,and I knew he wouldn't.

But here's a moment when the genie got out of the bottle. I'll never forget it. It was when Sam Langford died. I think it was in the mid 50's. He had dropped off the face of the earth.A reporter got a tip that he was living in a flea bag hotel in the Apple. He was blind and penniless. They got some scratch together to get Langford back on his feet again.He lived more or less comfortably until he passed away. When I told my father of Langford's death,he blurted out,"He was the greatest fighter that ever lived."

I didn't say anything.I never brought it up again to my father == his comment about Sam Langford.I figure if I did, he might have denied that he had said that.But now I look back on my father's comment.I think of Sam Langford and think of what my father said .He was probably right.

https://imgur.com/pDmxJGZ

Sam Langford
Post Reply